It's not like we expected every developing country in the world to jump at the chance to blow $100 million on the minimum order of Negroponte's
pull-string powered laptops, but India sure did seem a logical fit. With their burgeoning tech economy, it would seem training a new generation of
tech support personnel engineers and programmers would be a priority well met by the
OLPC, but the Indian Ministry of Education busted out the vocab and called the laptop "pedagogically suspect." They seemed to think the funds were better suited for building classrooms and hiring teachers, not "fancy tools," and their reasoning is hard to fault in that regard. Education Secretary Sudeep Banerjee also questioned the maturity of Negroponte's plan, and said no major country was seriously interested. Of course, Nigeria just ordered up a cool million, and places like China, Brazil, Argentina, Egypt and Thailand are still likely targets, but it looks like India is content to wait on the sidelines and call sour grapes for now.
posted July 27th 2006 8:52PM
Indian government is still dominated by 'high castes".That's the reason the OLPCs are being rejected.They want the majority "low caste " people here to remain uneducated.
It seems that they really hate it when America outsources call centres to India.
Why not get a head start? Eventually those little toddlers living in India are destined to be tech support agents.
India is just doing this because Intel has the entire country in its pocket with factories in Bangalore and those dumb Dell asshole customer service agents.
America is also suffering an education crisis. Does that mean our schools should not have computers? I for one think that access to educational information is just as important as having a good teacher.
Just because OLPC uses AMD's Geode does not mean that Intel should be immoral and use business tactics to deprive millions of kids the opportunity to use the Internet.
See? Intel is all about business and AMD is all about good will and welfare. It's time to get out of the 19th century business mentality, Intel.
I guess we'll see how the others respond, but India said what I said and got flamed for when this whole thing was introduced. Perhaps there's an archive someone cares to sort through...
Money and gadets solve nothing. They are enhancements. Good for India. Pay for teachers, chalk, and pencils, not future landfill.
Every time Sharikou makes a post, I start laughing. Coincidence? I think not.
Developing countries that have their priorities straight should be lauded, not criticized by wankers.
$100 laptops are expensive compared to the average income and budget in India. A $100 is STILL $100 and while it may seem miniscule to you, HKDavid, its still a lot of money to some people and countries.
So perhaps you should shut your craphole, HKDavid. You might be "pedagogically suspect."
You know, it's very upsetting to me as an Indian that the first reaction that everyone has is that every Indian is going to grow up to be a tech support agent. It may comes as a bit of a surprise, but the demand for other types of engineers - civil, chemical, etc. - also grows as a country develops and India is no different. For example, there is a huge boom in biotech in India, driven by the fact that there are decent-good medical schools, and research pays more than does actual work in medicine, from what I've seen and heard. These people also need to learn computing skills, from being able to touch-type to write up reports, to being able to program in languages which are used in biotech.
That said, the state of municipal schools in India is untenable. Here, people complain when class sizes exceed 25-30. When I was in school in India, in a fairly well off private school no less, the smallest class I was in was 26, and generally that got larger as you went up in the grades. If the Indian government believes that the correct response is to allocate money first to decreasing class sizes to make sure that there is more individual attention, then I absolutely applaud the decision. Computers, like teachers, are tools to a better education. Overemphasizing them as a goal in and of themselves - like overemphasizing the need for teachers at the expense of learning materials - is far more likely to be destructive than constructive.
As for "Sharikou": I ask you to please show me two definite pieces of information that indicates in no uncertain terms that "India is in Intel's pocket." I have seen the inside work of the government of India, at both state and central level for a very long, long time. The fact of the matter is that the government of India, like any other openly democratic system will be lobbied, and if there is an Intel lobby, I'm sure an AMD lobby will be set up across Janpath as soon as word reaches back to AMD headquarters. And remember, no one forced you to buy a Dell - and get a Dell warranty. You chose to deal with the "dumb Dell assholes" in the first place. There is Systemax, Maingear and other U.S. -made and -supported brands that you could choose instead. You picked Dell and chose to deal with their inept technical service. Don't like it? Change your computer. Have to deal with it at work and don't like it? Find another job.
I assume they're joking, Varun. It's pretty obvious that India is going to be running circles around us within the next few decades, so we might as well take our potshots while we still can.
Regarding the article, India has a fair point-- but I still think the project can be a worthwhile cause. It's all about finding the balance.
I doubt any in China would by one of these when full desktop computers can be bought new for 250 USD or even less, and basic laptops for around 300 USD.
India's Education Dept. is only a small leaf on its problem-tree. I've been to India fairly recently and there's a complete lack of structure by the government in some areas.
Finally someone called Negroponte's bluff! And what did he expect? All he wanted was to siphon out money under one excuse or the other... There was the other famous case of the Media Labs India project that was shut down a few years ago. *That* was a total fraud!
The goverment of India is in a shamble, corruption is through the roof(ruled by people who are moments away from the grave), their Infrastructure is completely absent. With cars sharing roads with bullock carts, and cow poo everywhere on the roads. Traffic jams, roads wit h 10foot deep pot holes. Trains and Train stations are absolutley filthy. No running watter, electrical blackouts a daily occurence. The poverty rate is way too high + with population ever increasing India cannot support it self without a massive overhaul of the country.
India has the chance to change drastically and I hope they go the Green route(enviromentaly friendly). Unlike china with its ginormous ammounts of pollution. Start by changing the Infrastructe get the bullock carts + the polluting lorries out, and develop hydrogen technology with subsidized help for the poor to afford it. Use solar power. Clean up the disgusting streets, rivers, lakes, modernize public transportation.
It wont be cheap, but investing like this will draw FDI. B/c then companies can actually ship goods from one town to another efficiantly. Instead of taking it on bullock carts-pothole ridden roads.
I'm really disappointed to read implicitly racist commentary in this post.
It seems that the article really rang true with "JS" because he blasted back with such an insensitive and closed-minded comment - "Eventually those little toddlers living in India are destined to be tech support agents." Sorry a bright motivated young person in India took your call center job JS - maybe you can be a greeter at Wal-Mart.
And to the author: why must you be so snide (crossing out "tech support personnel," the reference to "sour grapes")? It really just encourages your readers to let their smoldering xenophobia and racism erupt in what they think are harmless little outbursts.
India doesn't need technology thrust upon it in yet another attempt at colonialism and cultural hegemony by the West.
varun -- excellent, well thought-out post.
India -- excellent decision.
You have got to be kidding me if you really expected India to buy these.
100 USD = 4664 Rupees.
To put that in perspective, and engineering graduate from a good college might earn about 15-20 thousand Rupees a month.
Oliver - thank you.
Somehow I think that Negroponte just fell for another Nigerian scam. Poor guy.
Finally, India is learning to say no to the West. Int ime, we will do it more often. Though I'm not quite sure why India really said no to Negroponte's OLPC. Maybe all Negroponte needs is a better set of lobbyists. Meanwhile, the West better get used to the India story because someday soon, we're going to be taking over their companies.
Varun & Oliver - get a room.
I actually think that it was a good decision by India to reject the device. Don't know about all the other stuff, but $100 amounts to about 1/4 or 1/5 of the average annual income in India.
The US has money to spare, but I don't see people calling for the US government to buy everyone $8000 computers. It doesn't make sense; India has other stuff they need to spend their money on that will provide benefits much greater than toy-like computers.
Let's face it, for educational purposes, 1 computer per child is ridiculous. 5 or 10 kids can share a "real" $300 computer and learn as much as they could with the pull-string model.
Stymie - in my experience, it's generally considered polite to thank someone for a compliment. If you had complimented me, I would have thanked you no less. Proving that you have a quick wit usually results in an oxymoron.
Anyway, I completely agree with the one computer per so many children. Even in the U.S., the vast majority of schools, both private and public, tend to have one computer per so many students. At a school I worked at in college in the U.S., there were about 95-100 computers in the school, shared amongst the roughly 650 students. My second year at work there, the computer teacher changed, and I found that the school was managing with far fewer computers than the year before. Why? Because the new teacher was well-educated in the use of the computers, had specific lessons that he had timed over the course of the summer with guinea pig students and thus didn't run into the following class' time. Similarly, in school in India, there was an attempt to build another computer lab, to keep up with other private schools. Eventually, however, the funds never materialized for a new lab - but they did for a new lab technician. The lab tech was pretty much instrumental in getting the timing right. So the lab that could handle only three classes a day, because of the time involved in getting kids in and out of the classroom, eventually supported six classes a day, and I think we were better off on it. Time-sharing - the 1960s solution to everything on a budgetary constraint :)
See, this is why people hate Americans. You think you're being clever Paul while in reality, you managed to reduce an entire nation to one ridiculous stereotype.
OLPC is meant for people of developed countries who would like to furthur develop thier untapped areas. For a country like India, where the top priority is to provide basic amenities, they have to set up the infrastructure first.Technology without proper guidance is a bane !Who would work on a computer if they didnt get proper basic level education.
I seriously doubt if Nigeria would benefit from this system.It would take a long time for them to realize that they should ve spent the money for a better initiative.
Hey isn't that OS X running on the machine, you can see clearly the top bar with the Apple in the Top left and the Harddrive Icon. I thought the OLPC should be with linux os operating system. Did I miss something or why is it running os x?
Hey O.I. you didn't just reduce all Americans to one ridiculous steretype, did you?
OLPC is one of the most misguided albeit well-meaning enterprises I've ever seen. Nick Negroponte strikes me as the usual first world do-gooder who jets through the 3rd world and sees only those things that confirm his pre-conceived notions.
The damned computer is pull string powered! If a village has no electricity service, chances are its inhabitants are living at a level of technological sophistication that makes computers totally irrelevant to their lives. Chances are their more immediate needs have to do with getting clean potable water, getting fuel for cooking, getting basic health care, and equipping their local schoolhouse with chalkboards, text books, desks and chairs, and a half-way competent teacher.
I want one!
Kids don't need laptops. They need an education. And lets not even try considering that laptops are the wisest way to spend $100.
I'll say it: most of our country's young people would be in better shape, both mentally and physically, if they spent *less* time in front of their computers, and more time doing actual learning or exercising.
The last thing we need is Nigeria (of all countries) buying laptops- in all seriousness, I think this will lead to an increase in offers from princes who want to give us $10 MILLION DOLLARS.
India's problems notwithstanding, I feel the problem is with the validity of the $100 Laptop per Child concept itself. What would happen if the Laptops were given away for free to every child? In the near future? Some 50 years from now?
$100 would probably buy (in India) ALL schooling requirements for a child (school fees, books, school uniforms, shoes etc.) for a YEAR. Nobody is calling for that! why?
As humans, we are fixated on "hardware." I'd like to say, "It's the software, stupid!"
The problem is that software does not automatically become available (at a reasonable cost). Then there is the whole issue of usability and user interface (Windows! GUI! yuck!). Don't know how long we will be held at ransom by the keyboards, mice and screens of our times, but surely they are not the best means of interacting with a computer.
Also about software, are spreadsheets, PowerPoints (or similar) and text editors sufficient? What other software is actually required? A web-browser?
How about software for homework and examinations? Will be still stuck with hard-copies printed out and submitted? What about these costs (huge, HUGE!)? This is a big problem and requires innovations in education and how it is formalized.
Ok, finally there is content. Who and how will that be made available. Will text books be made available as soft-copies? What are the costs for that?
How's this whole shebang going to make for better, socially aware, responsible and enlightened citizens?
- mvk
Okay. So here's my two cents.
Firstly, I live in India (have my whole life) and yes, I'm an Indian.
Secondly, it really burns me up how Engadget could've said that. And by that, of course, I mean "tech support personnel". That is highly offensive and though I can see that they meant it in a humorous sense, it doesn't always work like that. You can't just say anything you want and then say that it was all a joke. Engadget and Paul, that was pathetic. That was pathetic and stupid. I've been reading Engadget for over a year now and this isn't the first time you've mocked India but I've let it slide in the past because it hasn't been this stupid/offensive. If I started picking on America, believe me, this post wouldn't end for quite a while. I just cursed you a lot but erased it because on second thought, I'd rather you just apologize for this stupidity and move on. Till you come and see India with your own eyes and see all the people and live their lives, don't make stupid remarks like "tech support personnel". It's stupid and people won't stand for it.
Thirdly, India's made a smart decision by opting out. However, it IS true that there's a lot of corruption here but the country IS improving now. As for all the stereotypes of cows on the roads and bullock carts, not everybody can afford or wants a car. It would be stupid to say that the people in villages should have cars. And nobody here gives a damn about a cow on the road. Unlike in America, people don't get all hysterical and start calling 911 everytime they see a cow on the road. It's NO BIG DEAL. Honk at the cow and 9 times out of 10 (seriously), it WILL get out of the way. They have road sense, alright? Way more than most people anyway.
All in all, I really was offended by Paul's post. It was stupid, uncalled for and clearly not thought through. I might just drop Engadget for it.
Varun, based on the comments whenever the $100 laptop comes up, it seems to me that a lot of posters on Engadget haven't been out of their own country, never mind experienced other cultures. As such, they will be dealing in stereotypes of India rather than anything concrete.
I've not been to India, but I've been to enough coutries to realise that stereotypes are rarely even close to reality, and that TV documentaries and news stories distort reality so much that it becomes a caricature of itself.
I just wish that the commenters who are regurgitating these stereotypes on Engadget would go and find some better information. Pedagogy indeed.
Rohit Kapur,
Engadget makes jabs at many cultures, including american culture (believe me, its easy for them, too). I too, am not white/caucasian, but you dont see me whining about a little joke here or there. If the racist jokes are only funny as long as they're about *other* people's cultures, then you need to reevaluate why you're laughing at all.
The problem with outsourcing to India, or Scotland for that matter is that the people on the other end of the line have no idea whats going on. So India not taking this up only really be considered a good thing.
If you don't like jokes about your country and culture, then by all means, boycott America. Then we can get our companies out of your country. Face it, the west has the innovation, you're just the cheap labor (exploited by your own people and companies). But don't fret, you're not the only ones exploiting your people, Vietnam, Thailand and China are also great places for US companies to outsource to. And if you're offended by this, why aren't YOU doing something to fix YOUR country? I'm tired of the rest of the world having to come up with solutions to YOUR problems. Take those wonderful American educations you got and put them to good use.
Not really K. They're funny to a certain extent. I mean that there are
some jabs about every culture that you can make and laugh and have the
culture laugh with you. Meaning, some kind of jokes are acceptable,
some are not. Of course, there's really no way at all to decide which
are acceptable and which aren't, so therein lies the dilemma. That
opinion varies from person to person. While I'm sure that Engadget
meant no harm with their joke, it still WAS offensive. I just think
it's important to say you're offended when you are, because if you
don't, then there's no boundary. Of course, I'm sure (or hoping, at
least) that Engadget has enough sense to know when they're at the
border and not to cross it. The only problem with making such jokes is that you invite the real prudes who actually DO believe all these jokes to be true to open up and spread their stupidity and go and ACTUALLY offend some people. Take, for example, the first comment up there. You tell me yourself if that wasn't idiotic.
Bottom line: I found it offensive
and I said so. Engadget can do what it wants with it.
1. The crossed-out "tech support personnel" wasn't funny, except for the xenophobic. But it's all good...this is Engadget, and they skewer everybody. Relax.
2. Per capita income in India is about $400.
3. Education and health care are priorities. A computer's nice, but not if you're too sick or malnourished to learn to read and write.
4. Given India's totally corrupt government, I wonder how many of these laptops would ever reach their intended recipients.
5. I am of Indian origin. India has no more or no less smart/stupid people than anyplace else. It's just that there's a bit more emphasis on education than in the US. It ain't innate talent; it's just hard work.
6. I still read Engadget every day. You've got good writers.
Wow, "Ahsan Kabir," I bet you thought your post was really clever. You probably nudged all your friends in your junior high computer lab and showed it to them, didn't you?
Leave the moronic racism at the back of your mind, where it belongs. And hurry up, 'cause algebra class is about to start.
It seems to be that cultural jokes are funny till they hit close to home, at which point they become offensive.
People take themselves way too seriously. Some people will be idiots no matter what, letting them offend you is just lowering yourself to thier level.
Reference to "tech support personnel" was a cheap shot not matter what.
~BeeBop~, you certainly say that as if you're an expert on the social and economic systems of present day Nigeria. Care to elaborate on why you are so certain they will go to waste there?
Now, honey, play nice with the other children or I'll take away your MySpace time.
Quote: With cars sharing roads with bullock carts, and cow poo everywhere on the roads.
India has the chance to change drastically and I hope they go the Green route(enviromentaly friendly). [end quote]
Hey! Bullock Carts the are MOST environmentally friendly transport on this entire planet. Isn't it funny (or rather, moronic) that you show yourself to be some high priest of some Gaia temple so concerned about environmental stuff that you actually don't know that the cows in India are not only sources of the best nutritional/protein mother nature can provide, but also workers on fields and magnanimous givers of the great poo which, in turn is the best source of renewable energy by the way of biogas?
[quote]The poverty rate is way too high + with population ever increasing India cannot support it self without a massive overhaul of the country. [/quote]
This is exactly what everybody has been saying since forver. India is about to cough and go into tenany and just die. Oh you please keep that pity all locked up, coz, India is going nowhere but everywhere. We have always been a nation on the edge, but don't ya worry, we won't just fall over into the abyss.
And for those whose myopic vision of India is disorted by their incompetence to fix their Dells themselves, and are forced to seek help from little school kids who have just completed High School and looking for a little money in exchange for chatting up old ladies in cocney english, I have this to say:
Don't ask for help and criticise once it has been given to you. Want Dell Support? Pay your neigbour kid 100$/hr and he will fix up your crashing Internet Exporer!
Sheesh.
theres this tv channel called something india here they show every friday; it's hilarious! as for india, as long as theyre not supporting terrorism or anything that affects US directly then more power to them!
Great... Nigeria bought a million of these things? Now all my spam will be financial offers from lawyers, bank officials, and princes trying to get 50.3 Million D011ar5 our of their country. All I need to do is give them my bank account number and I'll get 10%? Sweet. Where do I sign? I wonder, how many royal families are there in Nigeria? I seem to get a lot of emails from Nigerian princes wanting to get (illicit) money from the Oil Ministry out of the counrty...
Just kidding. It's a good program, albiet $100 could be spent in much better ways in these poor countries... Perhaps we should worry about getting these kids RUNNING WATER, proper schools, health care, and electrcity before we worry about them having a laptop.
And finally, to all the people whining about a joke... Hey, at least he didn't say that the young Indian kids would grow up to live in America and be 7-11 attendants. It's called a joke people, get your heads out of your asses and lighten up. You're taking yourselves WAY too seriously.
well this comes as no surprise ...
why spend 100% on a laptop when a school can get desktop computers for much less and can setup a lab that can be used by all the children in schools .. that wud be way way cheaper than 100 bux per laptp/child .. and there are programs where older computers discarded by ppl are sent to schools in rural areas .. they are geared enuf to impart knowledge ... the pt is why go to an extent of gearing every1 with a computer when you can effectively use 1 computer for many ppl !! and nigeria, in such a disarray where ppl aren't even getting food, chose to go for the olpc project .. i m simply amazed by the fact ...
mebbe the negroponte had to give lesser amt of money to the nigerians than the indian officials demanded ;)
and thats a joke !!
I wouldn't buy into Negroponte's 3rd world PC. It's a nice idea, but it's coming 10years too late. Now it's the mobile and the US will find itself here in catching up.
In India, to use a computer today even in an Internet café, you have to be rich, whereas GPRS is available everywhere.
Two posts to underline this:
http://mobile.kaywa.com/p469.html
http://konvergenz.kaywa.com/p221.html (german)
Nigeria... great. "We are training a new generation of scammers"
Maybe if Negroponte was offering $100 self-contained-water-and-sanitation systems to India, it would be more useful?
India doesn't need to blow $100-mil on cheap laptops. They'd rather hit up the World Bank for loans while their people live in abject poverty.
As sound as their reasoning looks (isn't it always the case where there's any ambiguity?) I'm sure politics and money had a lot to do here. If you want ANYTHING done in India you have to bribe a whole chain of autocratic persona and if you can't you are screwed, no matter what the country will be losing at large.
I am sure even Negroponte is not as disappointed as you guys.
Here are a few details about India and Nigeria
Nigeria - Oil Rich Country
Population
- 2005 est. 131,530,000 1 (9th)
- 1991 census 88,992,220
- Density 142/km² (71st)
369/sq mi
GDP (PPP) 2005 estimate
- Total $132.1 billion (47th)
- Per capita $1,188 (164th)
HDI (2003) 0.453 (158th) – low
India - Has to import 70% of its oil.
Population
- 2005 est. 1,103,371,000 (2nd)
- 2001 census 1,027,015,247
- Density 329/km² (31st)
852/sq mi
GDP (PPP) 2005 estimate
- Total $3.633 trillion (4th)
- Per capita $3,344 (122nd)
HDI (2003) 0.602 (127th) – medium
Indian politicians and officials are corrupt. But looks like they are doing a better job than their Nigerian colleagues.
I am sure this is a good decision