Alright, we're going to clear this up right here: "quad processors" is different than dual dual-core processors. Despite the best efforts of Steve Jobs and his Reality Distortion Field. But with that said, we're not complaining. Dual dual-core chips sure is plenty of juice to be getting on with, and Apple's
Xserve line sure manages a lot of power for its 1U rackmount design. The configurations mirror that of the
Mac Pro, ranging up to dual 64-bit dual-core 3GHz Xeon "Woodcrest" chips. Apple added in redundant power with the space savings from losing those steamy G5 processors, and also made room for 2.24TB of storage. Configurations start at $2,999, range beyond the amount of cash we'll see in our lifetime, and should be available in October.
posted Aug 7th 2006 3:16PM
er, did Apple actually claim quad processors?
can't Quad Xeon just as easily be shorthand for Quad (Core) Xeons?
Follow your own link to Apple's site. In the very first paragraph they claim:
"...this quad-core 64-bit system delivers performance up to 5 times (1) faster than the Xserve G5."
They don't say Quad-Processor. They say Quad CORE. This is entirely accurate and you only mislead yourself.
How's this thing going to look in a pro-audio or pro-video rackmount: real good!
I believe he's referring to the picture here: http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/08/dsc_0416.jpg
The problem with bashing Apple on it is that the product name is "Quad Xeon," meaning that there's absolutely no problem with the words Apple used. As in, those processors are the processors used by the "Quad Xeon" configuration. Which is short for quad-core.
Or here:
http://images.apple.com/home/2006/images/macprotitle20060807.gif
Or here:
http://images.apple.com/home/2006/images/promoxserve20060807.jpg
Or here:
http://images.apple.com/xserve/images/indextoptitle_20060807.gif
It's a misleading LIE. Plain and simple.
It is NOT misleading. There is nothing wrong with calling an SMP Dual-Core system Quad Core or Quad Processors.
Each processor has a set of full execution units registers the whole nine. There are 4 complete processor in the computers guaranteed.
You guys are fighting over semantics and looking foolish doing so.
Ricardo wrote:
"WHAAAA.. so many MAC related posts in a row, and yet you claim you got nothing to do with Apple?"
Get a clue -- there's an Apple event going on this week, the WWDC. That's why there's a lot of Apple buzz.
I'm sorry, there's a difference between 2 dual core chips and 4 single core chips. 4 cores, yes, but not the same at all.
I have to admit 'Quad Xeon' is a dubious take on 'Quad Processor Cores', but it may be a necessary one, as nowadays highend 1U AMD servers can actually offer 4 seperate processors (http://www.armari.com/system.asp?SysID=567), and so Apple would look a bit late to market with just "Dual Xeon" Processors. Notice that Armari call their option "Quad Opteron" despite the 8 cores.
I'm not knocking Apple for this approach - IT Admins don't just buy servers based on the marketing blurb, and Apples approach may help a few give a serious look to their 1U option. I would be surprised if we don't see Apple Blade servers soon though.
But wait a minute. Didn't the previous G5s have 4 G5 processors and they called them quads. Why is this distortion? They just using the same naming logic?
All this bickering about the Quad part. Lets see, each core has their own L1 cache and a shared L2 cache. A shared L2 cache actually increases performance. On top of that, they have high speed, on chip, interconnects. So, two cores on the same CPU perform equally or better than a two cores on two CPUs. So, shame on Apple for claiming that the four xeon system will perform equally or better than any other four xeon system. The BASTARDS!
Humajime:
"So, two cores on the same CPU perform equally or better than a two cores on two CPUs"
No - not if those two CPU's are Dual Core. That's the point, What if another company launches 4 actual processors in 1U and calls it Quad Xeon (Similar to my previous example) Will all that L1 and L2 cache on the Apple perform as well as 4 DualCore chips? No.
But this is a pointless arguament between pro MSFT / pro APPL fanbases since oblivious home users don't tend to purchase 1U servers. Infrastructure admins will know what they're getting.
Since this is an intel machine, does that mean Windows 2003 can be installed on a mac machine? Just wondering.
daub815:
Good idea, but I don't think BootCamp works for 64bit architecture properly yet. I'm sure they're working on it, but surely the point of buying a Mac Server is to get away from Windows?
Yay more Apple 'IT Hardware' to make me laugh. I guess when you have a brand name that inspires brand brainwashing you can throw whatever you want into a product and it will sell.
All these Huffed up specs and massive marketing spin to make their overpriced toys seem competitive is getting kind of sad.
The HP DL360 G5 is superior in every aspect. Same processor and formfactor (1u, 2p Woodcrest) but with hot swap power supplies, ToE, 6 SFF SATA/SAS HDDs with a far superior hardware RAID controller all at a lower price and with a better warranty. Wheres the Apple advantage?
Aaron: to be fair, the Xserve has hot swappable redundant power supplies as well.
Ok, I found the part where it does list hot swappable power supplies, it was kind of hard to find through all the marketing BS.
Also only a 1 year limited warranty included at that price? Seriously 3 years is standard when it comes to REAL servers.
I'd be willing to bet Apples average MTBF on these server components are less than half that of HP or IBM (but not Dell) servers. I guess I just don't "get" Apple 'IT Hardware'.
That's because there's nothing to get. There's no such thing as "Apple IT hardware." There's "Apple new business which can't afford to hire IT and the boss likes to buy shiny stuff hardware," but no "Apple IT hardware." Even any graphics design house with a clue will run a Linux or real UNIX server.
Damn was I wrong, I can't believe both xserve and mac pro got quad core across the line.
Can we please us a sensible notation for this argument?
4x1 = Four chips, one core each
2x2 = Two chips, two cores each
1x4 = One chip, 4 cores
etc.
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2006/08/dsc_0416.jpg
How is that misleading? If they really meant quad processor, they'd show four (4) images of the proc, but no - they only show two. So...wait for it.... 4/2 = *shock and horror" 2. So it's a dual dual-core system and I think hmurchison said it best.
Aaron:
"The HP DL360 G5 is superior in every aspect. Same processor and formfactor (1u, 2p Woodcrest) but with hot swap power supplies, ToE, 6 SFF SATA/SAS HDDs with a far superior hardware RAID controller all at a lower price and with a better warranty. Wheres the Apple advantage?"
I don't know where you're getting your prices, but:
http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=2076&BaseId=13706&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=
Spec it out to match:
2 Dual Cord Xeon 2.60GHz Processors (faster than Xserve)
1GB RAM (same)
800MHz Frontside Bus (vs. Xserve's 1.33GHz)
Cheapest 5-User License Windows Server (vs. Unlimited Client Mac OS X Server)
Swappable 72.8GB Hard Drive (vs. 80GB on Xserve)
Dual Gigabit Ethernet (same)
Combo DVD/CD Drive (same)
Total for the HP DL360 : $4,326.00 w/ 3-year warranty
vs. Xserve : $2,999 w/ 1-year warranty
Doesn't that seem like Apple is cheaper? Even if you argue the 3-year warranty is worth the extra $1,300, you can extend Apple's Xserve warranty to 24/7 ONSITE hardware support, yielding a total of $3,950, still $300 cheaper. (plus you'd have to add $150 to the HP for the same service to be fair...)
And doesn't the Xserve have a better frontside bus and unlimited server license? I understand the processors are faster than the base Xserve, and since it isn't available yet we don't know how much extra the 2.6 will cost, but regardless, how is this not comparable in price?
"Ok, I found the part where it does list hot swappable power supplies, it was kind of hard to find through all the marketing BS"
Quick, try to find the HP DL360 G5 on the HP website. No offense, but (a) it's impossible to find without drilling down and (b) HP's page is full of marketing BS too. Dell & Apple are full of marketing, but at least you can find their products.. sheesh.
1) You just linked to the G4P
2) The G4P you linked to doesn't offer a 2.6Ghz processor, the lowest is 2.8Ghz, but they do offer a 3.6Ghz which adds $699 for the first proc alone. This isn't Woodcrest. This server is in no way comparable.
3) The 72GB hard drive is U320 SCSI, Apple's 80GB is SATA.
You're right, HP's website does suck. Here's what you're looking for, though.
http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/ctoBases.asp?ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=2422&jumpid=re_hphqiss/Ovw_Buy/DL360G5
By the way, the DL360 G5 isn't cheaper either, it comes standard with one dual core processor. HP also appears to charge $500 just for the privilege of modifying the configuration.
Yo double A to the ron you need to check yourself before you wreck yourself, because you are going to pay a G-note more from HP for the equivilent hardware.
For an Apple to Crapple comparison check this
HP info from:
http://h71016.www7.hp.com/dstore/MiddleFrame.asp?page=config&ProductLineId=431&FamilyId=2422&BaseId=19100&oi=E9CED&BEID=19701&SBLID=
HP
ProLiant DL360 G5 2.00GHz Rack Server
Dual Core Intel® Xeon® 5130 (2.00GHz, 1333 FSB) Processor
HP 1GB Fully Buffered DIMM PC2-5300 2X512 Memory
Smart Array E200i SAS RAID Controller with 64MB cache
2 Embedded NC373i Multifunction Gigabit Network Adapter
HP 1u Server 700w HP Power Supply
Redundant fan options
HP Redundant Fans
Server management
Integrated Lights Out 2 (iLO 2) Standard Management
With the second Processor, Hard drive 72GB (10,00RPM) & combo drive
and 5 User terminal LIc from MS $4211.00 W/O 3 year waranty
Apple info from:
http://www.apple.com/xserve/specs.html
Apple
Two 2GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon 5100 processors
1.33GHz frontside bus and 4MB shared L2 cache per processor
1GB memory (667MHz DDR2 ECC fully buffered DIMM)
80GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA hard drive1
Built-in ATI Radeon X1300 graphics with 64MB RAM
Mac OS X Server 10.4 Unlimited-Client Edition
$2,999.00
That is $1212
Tell ya what I am going to do, you send me your 4.25 large and I will buy an Xserve and install bootcamp and Windows and send the machine to you with an HP sticker on it, and keep the diffrence. Hey anyone else want the Double A deal? If I can find just three other takers, I can buy my own.
Your Soaking in it
Mike, if you look at the processor usage on a MacBook Pro in Activity Center, you will see there are 2 different boxes for 2 processors. Now you will be seeing 4, because there are 2x 2 core chips, and 2x2=4
That is correct, the G4P is not the same server. Buying from HP direct is not the way to get the best price, as they are setup for distribution instead of direct sales.
The G5 comes in 9 different SKUs from HP that mainly differ around the type of onboard RAID controller and FSB. One thing you don't see Apple talking very much of probably because they don't have one. 6 hard drives plus all of the above features is a big big deal in a 1u form factor.
My distributor only has about 30 or so different G5s in stock because they are still technically in pre-order status (similar to the XServe) and there is going to be a pretty big promotion when they finally go up for sale like always.
It wont be very hard to get a dual 2.6ghz 1gb system with the midlevel RAID card (256mb cache, non battery backed) for a cheaper price when they come out.
Boy it suuuure is a shame that Apple dropped their old processors. They were so much faster than intel.
I know this because Steve Jobs said so.