Brand new Mac Pro ruthlessly gutted!
By Paul Miller 
posted August 10th 2006 5:40PM
posted August 10th 2006 5:40PM
posted August 10th 2006 5:40PM
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wow, not only is it a hardcore gaming computer, its also a cheese grater!
Thank GAWD, no more water cooling crap. I dig the "if liquid is visible in the computer case, turn off immediately" on the G5 upper end machines, but when the cooling system is about 1/3 or more of the case you have issues.
Overall, impressive to say the least. I'm sure some props to the Intel guys are in order as well as the engineers at apple with the heating system. I see copper in those beyatches.
Can't begin to imagine the damage caused on a hot day if those heatsinks werent doing their job properly
So, after many years of R&D, and millions of fanbois claiming how awesome their machines are, Apple has finally succeeded in making their top of the line desktop look like a Dell does on the inside. Way to go Apple! :)
looks just like the g5 from 5 years ago, aside from the hard drives...
Damn apple, the copycats!
Read:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/macosx_leopard_preview.asp
mmm copper, welcom to PC world like 7 years ago. Maybe if apple lossed their SMUG, and would belly up to the bar.
so what do pc guys use now? copper? lol, apple doesnt make this stuff ya know. they are not going to use gold just cous you think copper it out dated, its been used in electronics for over 100 years, its a very good cunducter of both heat and electricity. its not a space ship! it doesnt need practicly super cunducting gold to work!
I love how many people are getting fired up about the copying remark. That's Jobs giving a speech to the audience, which from the looks of it, everyone forgot were, oh, the developers.
Regarding that article posted by Shreedhan:
1. 64 bit computing is a logical progression, it's not some newly imagined way of doing stuff. That's like saying that Creative is copying Apple by adding more space to their MP3 players or something.
2. Not only is VSC on Windows Server 2003 (and the author even wrote that in!), it does NOT have the same functionality of Time Machine and it is NOT directed at a casual end user. Read about it on Apple's site.
3. Remembering that this is a DEVELOPER'S conference, it is impressive because chances are that the developers will have access to some of the services / APIs provided by those apps. Yes, this isn't massively impressive, but it's not as lame as the author wants you to think.
4. Like #2, it's not a big deal until you streamline it and make it useful enough that an enduser will use it. He says it himself; the Windows version was a PowerToy and it wasn't as polished. I also don't believe that you could drag individual programs across different workspaces.
5. This is more of an opinion. I use both on a daily basis and I much prefer Spotlight. More responsive and more relevant.
6. Hilarious. The author is now complaining that a developer technology was presented to developers. That's what the "d" was in "WWDC".
7. Another matter of opinion, but I highly doubt that given the pepsi challenge, someone would say that the quality of the two were the same.
8. I agree here. HTML mail is pretty much out.
9. Again, the author ignores the fact that this is a presentation for the developers, regarding a developer tool. He comes up with the deduction that end users aren't going to use it. No shit. Agree with the .Mac portion, though.
10. Agreed. Cool, not a huge feature.
So yeah. I mean seriously, do you guys own massive amounts of Microsoft stock or something?
Anyone notice the amount of thermal paste on that heatsync? Ah, visions of mac tech manual.
I hope someone could come up with a replacement HDD case made out of rubber (yank out seek noises and vibrations). Other than that, Mac Pro hits most major mark for quiet pc design.
I have been calling around, trying to find anyone who could deliver a Mac faster than Apple. I was psyched to see this posting, and that PowerMax actually HAS Mac Pros in stock. I just placed my order and should have it tomorrow.
I am looking forward to seeing how easily BootCamp will install, and how well it operates. I am especially hoping that it will dual boot from a 2nd internal drive, which should allow me to dual boot with Vista and OS X.
Oh, one other thing... If there's anyone else like me out there looking to get a Mac Pro asap, call PowerMax and ask for Maya (they work on commission there I guess). She jumped through hoops to make certain mine would go out today.
Does anyone know why the CPU's say "Costa Rica"... or did I miss something. Or does Intl have a fab in CR?
"wow, not only is it a hardcore gaming computer, its also a cheese grater!"
Haha, cheese grater...
I wish Macs could grate cheese. Then they might be slightly useful. (That's a joke. Sort of.)
Also, can you really say it's a hardore gaming computer? Well, I guess they can run Windows now, that expands the software library significantly. Macs don't bother me as much now that they can run Windows, that was a smart move on Apple's part. I doubt I would ever buy one (still a little pricey), but they are well-designed machines, and I think they'll start to see some new customers now. I would like to see more decisions like that catering to a wider audience, instead of the usual Mac cultist jerks.
yeah, powermax is the best, their trade in program is awesome, I have two really old macs which I'm going to use to get a mac mini, the only reason I don't get everything from power max is because there are two apple store not too far from where I live
Shreedhan- that's a well written article.
Andy- your main complaint appears to be that the author doesn't acknowledge that this was a developer's conference. This is true. However, the author doesn't appear to dispute this, and is instead giving his opinion of the features discussed irrespective of target market. It also seems pretty fair to look at OS X from a purely end-user perspective, seeing as that's what Apple have done with XP. I can't say I hear Steve Jobs saying "What have our competitors been doing? Well, it may not look like a lot, but their new APIs are really something!". Then again, Apple never were masters of the fair and/or logical argument.
^ Because Microsoft has always behaved in an exemplary manner.
Treetrunk-no it wasn't
The article was based on (unless the author has the gold master and Apple is just waiting until spring for the hell of it) an initial presentation made to a group of developers. How can you write an article on the end user experience from watching a presentation. At least when they showed what the product potentially would be, they had a workable version and one to release to developers. Microsoft didn't even have a name for Vista when they first introduced it. The final version of Leopard isn't due out for what, another ten months. Apple has been able to convert their entire line of computers over to a different processor in almost the same about of time. I would imagine they'll have a few more additions. And I think it's fair to start considering Vista from the end use perspective since they had a beta version for anyone to try out and delcaired it feature complete. I also admit that I'm extremely Mac biased and sometimes drink the kool-aid. I do have a Sony Vaio AR170 sitting right next to my MacBook Pro. The thing is not to confuse the software which is fine on a PC with the OS. Microsoft even makes a couple of good programs (like Visio and the Sharepoint suite) and the 2007 version of Office is good. I like the ribbon feature. But XP still gets in the way of usability. And the beta testers we have it our company who've been using Vista still like XP better. It seems that the main purpose of Microsoft's new features is to fix problems it created to begin with. My Mac just works. My PC just doesn't. Thankfully for me, we have a department of about 200 Microsoft Certified techs that can keep it running.
I see what you're saying Treetrunk, but again - this is a developer's conference. If you want to write an end-user's perspective to it then that's one thing; it's another to write an article that basically bashes Apple for not giving a presentation geared towards end-users. Sorry, it's a developer's conference. I highly doubt Steve Jobs thought that bringing up Core Animation would excite any users. As a Mac developer, though? This is a great tool.
And you're right, they weren't arguing APIs or anything. In a crowd composed of the people who help sell your computers, bringing up that the competition is lagging behind (and let's admit it, looking at the current beta, Vista is) is a great morale booster for the troops. It's got nothing to do with the nitty gritty. It's a pep rally for the entire team of folks who develop for Apple, nothing more. Do you expect fair and logical when Balmer is trying to rev up developers? Come on, now.
Just remember that the first part of all of these conferences are pep rallies and the second part is the actual goods but that ALL OF IT IS MEANT FOR DEVELOPERS and you'll have the right perspective.
Okay. I have come a long way since the days of completely bashing Mac's. In fact with the advent of Bootcamp, if Mac's weren't such elitist computers I would purchase one. Though on the other hand, I may not be able to afford on I appreciate the fact that the company is fairly small and elite in comparison to PC world. (I wish I had learned to spell in school.) But, seriously the Vista bashing has gotten out of control. Even political opponents don't rally that much at their prospective..err...rallies. But, I digress. Apple has proven itself a great thinker out side the box. I just disagree with their methods. Oh, and the 4G iPods should have all been recalled. But, Apple would NEVER EVER EVER admit failure. That pisses me off too.
Umm... not to bash apple or anything, but, Does anyone else think the case design is over-thought/complicated, or even poor? Not to mention the price tag... It seems to be missing a LOT of features that I would expect if I were to be spending anywhere near the amount they are asking.... Again not bashing appple, I like apple, just not this product.
Many people are looking for this MacPro to do something like play World of Warcraft. It is a box built for a pro. When PC users make comments about MACs its just funny. I have to use both daily. I can attach any device to my Mac and be up and running in seconds, but with PCs it's always something. My apps run faster on my Mac than on my pc. I never have to shut down my Mac because of some kind of crash or exception or blue screen or some kind application hanging up the OS. And while Apple is pushing this concept of dual boot and running windows, I can only ask one question... WHY? Apple could have priced the MacPro $800 less and I could afford to buy a Dell also (like I really want one). Running Windows on a Mac is liking driving a sports car in rush hour traffic (bound to crash). Sure it's a neat feature, but if my Mac can run the OS X version of MS Office (the best thing the Mr. Softee ever made), why do I want a PC? I can't get the performance for editing video, audio and graphics. I can't multitask and move between multiple applications on a PC as easily and seamlessly as I can on a Mac. I can't make money on a PC... but I can run Halo or Doom. Note: If you spend $3,500 or more to buy a high end MacPro and you use it to play some PC game title, you should just admit to yourself that you're a loser, move out of your mother's basement, get a haircut, lose 35 pounds and pray that some woman will help you reproduce, because I know you're not getting any now.
What no Mattel sticker?
Fans slide out without unplugging. Hard drives slide in and out with nothing to connect. Firewire 400/800 on the front for convenience. Ram board pulls out for easy ram installation. etc etc. LOL just like a Dell. Yeah. The guy who made that comment must be on drugs. The fact is Apple are great at design and win the awards to prove it. Any one who says otherwise is simply showing their ignorance. Criticize Apple for other things, but really, the design aspect is beyond question.
I have a G5 tower and I have to say, for those who care about design, these things are nicer on the inside than any PC is on the outside.
My friend thinks Macs suck though and you may wish to check out what he says.
http://www.waddo.net/textshumour/short_texts/windows_v_mac.html
And I love those comments about Macs being useless and you have to go to a PC to get work done! I really hope people who believe stuff like that stay with their PCs and never switch because they deserve each other. Really I don't mind what kind of computer people use; but I think what is annoying is the PC user who knows absolutely nothing about Macs and says such silly nonsense. The obvious fact is that most Mac users have used or still are forced to use PCs, so the choice to use a Mac comes with some knowledge. The most idiotic comments about Macs always come from people who have least knowledge.
And it's funny, even though those ignorant people claim you need to get a PC to do REAL work, somehow the discussion always comes back to gaming!!! rather telling isn't it?
As an example of a Mac and REAL work, my web site was designed on a mac, has text documents of every size and genre, edited video with Final Cut (you know that Apple only software that is used by the BBC and every other major content producer), music recorded in my home studio, photography using Photoshop, etc. All made on a Mac. Now please someone tell me how much more you can do on a PC! I'd love to hear it. I sometimes read video editing message boards and I can tell you editing on a PC makes people pull out their hair. I admit I don't play games!
Any way, the fact is Mac users love their macs because we can do so many things with them with ease and without fighting the machine. Why does that bother so many PC users? I say my Mac is great. Does that make me arrogant? No, it makes me happy!
So enjoy your computer no-matter who made it. And let's have a reality check from time to time.
PS You may notice there are no spelling errors in this post. That's because on a Mac there is a system wide spell check that checks as you type no-matter where you type. It can also look up words in the system wide dictionary, no-matter where they appear. These are some of the details that make using a Mac fun.
Peace
waddo
http://www.waddo.net/
It's a very good PC to say the least but who would be a winner in this match: Mac Pro vs. XPS 700
hmm.....
Are we seeing the inside because the outside is so ugly? Looks like a bad PC case mod from the outside. Cross-hatched metal is the new brushed metal.
haha
there's no accounting for taste--or lack thereof.
I guess all those design awards Apple wins should rightfully go to Dell et al.
Keep up the good work!
To keith waddington:
Well, there is no point in discussing what you can do with a Mac and a PC any more. You can do everything on both, so it's all down to taste and past experience, and ofcourse the size of ones wallet. PCs are cheaper, and thus better performance for you money. On the other hand its easier to get started with a Mac, although they have also made usability mistakes in the past like the complete lack og a @ on the keyboard.
OSX is a copycat from the beginning since it's just linux/unix with a pretty gui.
And why has no one mentioned the cat thing? It's like a Freudian admission that they are copycats. They are running out of cats, people. Can't make too many more of the OSX revisions without cats to call them by since they are focusing on big cats.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_cat
Only thing left is Snow/Clowded Leopard, and although genetically different, you'd be hard pressed to use that as a marketing term for the next release. I for one want to see "clouded Leopard" given the vista contrast (pun intended).
I hardly believe they'd call the 2007 version a siamese.
----You heard it here first:
if they release another cat related version it will be a "Lynx". It's all Linux anyway.
teo
"OSX is a copycat from the beginning since it's just linux/unix with a pretty gui."
no comment
"It's a very good PC to say the least but who would be a winner in this match: Mac Pro vs. XPS 700"
Liquidmark says:
Mac Pro would stomp XPS 700 with NO trouble at all.
Does anyone ever read the tech specs?
Here you go:
Apple
http://www.apple.com/macpro/specs.html
Dell XPS 700:
http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsdt_700?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~section=specs#tabtop
You can't even get Dual-Xeon Processors on it! Xeon laughs as it does victory dance all over Pentium D's broken body!
Why would ANYONE want to compare the XPS 700 to the Mac Pro? O_O
XPS 700 is not even remotely a match.
@Thundernad
" It seems to be missing a LOT of features that I would expect if I were to be spending anywhere near the amount they are asking.... "
Hunh?
*Looks at tech specs again*
What features are missing? Dell has a similarly configured machine for almost $1000 more and it can ONLY run windows. The processors alone would run over $1500 for both. And that's on a good day. Don't get me on the Motherboard that can hold multiple processors. That'll run about $600. add in all of the usual stuff and that will be another $4-500. If you were to build one with NEW parts, it would still run you more than the $2500 the Mac Pro costs.
"Class,"
(writing on chalkboard)
Mac vs. PC cost comparison.
Mac desktops & (especially) laptops: $1500 worth of hardware in a $1500 plastic case. Price = $3000
Identical PC desktop or laptop: $1500 worth of hardware. Price = $1500
Conclusion: ("repeat after me") "Macs.. are mediocre hardware.. in overpriced cases."
Therefore, MAC = M.ediocrity, A.rrogance, C.ases!
Teo
"OSX is a copycat from the beginning since it's just linux/unix with a pretty gui."
My god! By that logic, Irix, Nextstep, A/UX and Solaris 8 are copies of Linux too. They all use Unix as a core. Never mind the fact that they each have totally different filing systems and kernels.
What do you expect? Apple should go back to using ProDOS?
@Jiggsaw
Man, everytime I post something somebody comes in with something more absurd.
Let me spell it out for you.
YOU ARE NOT GOING TO buy A PC WITH THE MAC PRO'S SPECS FOR LESS THAN $2,500!
In fact A Dell with the SAME SPECS would cost you MORE. Look-it-up. I already did.
Why do PC heads keep compairing Multi Core, professional level Macs with single-core, Celeron powered jalopy machines from the bargain bin! >_<
PC's are becoming mediocre by the day, yet nobody is willing to see this.
@Liquidmark,
I was speaking of the Macs of the last 5 years, all the way up to the latest macbook pro. I'd agree that the $2500 for the Mac Pro finally gives you a little more bang for the buck than most computing products before it that bore the apple logo.
@Jiggsaw
I can almost agree with that. PPC chips are historically designer chipsets. They are very, very, VERY, expensive. I belive this is why Apple switched to Intel.
In fact, they made VERY LITTLE profit, on each unit sold, because the processor sets were so expensive. What looks like $1500 to you, was actually more like $2,500 to build a G4 tower that costs $2,800. you see what I'm saying?
Because Apple was pretty much the only company ordering G5 processors, They fell into the custom processor category. That makes for more expensive retail price.
Plus, Five years ago, Apple was trying to recover from a decade long thrashing in the market. It is to note, the first iMac had a lower price than just about anything else that can be bought new at the time.
Apple is not one of the brands i buy and probably never will never had the need too and if they want to copy people then this goes to prove that they are not the best designers in the world.
I have use both PCs and Macs and the only beef I have with Macs is the lack of hardware options. I'm a starving student and have only $1000 to spend on an all purpose computer. I'm not a hardcore gamer but I do play some games so Macbooks are not viable for me. The Minis are an overprice-underpowered toy. I have a 19 inch widescreen monitor so iMacs aren't an option for me and MacPros are out of my price range. Why is it that I can't purchase components and assemble a computer myself and run OS on it?
Job needs to be more pragmatic and open up his software. In a few years when AMD releases a chip that will surpass core 2 duo, will Apple switch and will they give me a choice of either chip company?
Begbie:
the mini has a dual core same as the macbook pro which is presently the fastest portable on the market as far as I can see. There are only two weak points: you need to change the hard drive to 7200 and forget gaming because of the lack of graphics card. Is playing silly games so important?
Try one out in a store and you will be impressed. It's ready to do everything you can imagine with no extra software to buy: including making videos and recording music. Really it's a deal and a half and designed exactly for people in your situation. If only you could forget about those silly childish games.
Peace
http://www.waddo.net/
K. Waddington:
Mini - $800
Here's what I can get on Newegg:
Core duo 1.66 Ghz processor and mobo - $300
1 gig of 667 - DDR2 ram - $90
250 gig HDD - $100
eVGA 7600GS 256 mb pci-e card - $100
DVD burner - $50
That's only $640 so I have $160 left to buy a case, sound card, or other options.
The mini is over priced for its specs.
If the warranty ends on the iMac and its monitor suffers from multiple dead pixels, can you keep the innards and replace the screen?
The software is good but Apple doesn't allow any hardware options.
If Job had allowed any hardware to use OS perhaps he would be the one rich enough to give away billions.
1.6 ghz? the mac mini has 1.8, also, you have to under stand its very tiny, and that brings the cost up.
Yes, in fact Intel has a reasonably large Xeon/Celeron fab not too far from the Santamaria International Airport in San Jose. If you're staying at the suburban San Jose Marriot, you'll loop around it on your way to and from the airport or downtown. Intel has a page about it: http://www.intel.com/jobs/costarica/sites/heredia.htm
I AM a PC user. I have used Mac's only on sporatically for Audio Editting. (Plug: iTunes Power Search - Tense)
But, I must admit I am throughly impressed with the new Mac Pro. Would I purchase one. Most likely not. Unless I came into a crapload of money, where it would be no object anymore.
All this fanaticism over a persons propective computer is upsurd. (I wish I had that spell check function though.) Apple is a niche platform. Impressive and high priced. Do not mistake is for a consumer product. Like a run of the mill XP PC. Comparing them is upsurd as well. Of course you can buy a PC cheaper. It's ambiguious. It can be anything. A Mac is more defined. Having control over ever aspect of your computer allows for tighter tolerences. The same reason a Game Console can run comparable games on a "technically" slower system. Because the developer knows EXACTLY how it is going to run on EVERY system. You just can't do that with a has-to-be-everything PC.
so true, optimization is everything.