Creative Zen Vision:M due for 60GB upgrade next month?

All we've really got to go on so far is a quote from Creative Labs president Craig McHugh during their quarterly earnings conference call, but just because we don't have the word from a friend of a friend and didn't get the message passed in invisible ink doesn't mean we have to discount it entirely. Thus saith Craig: "As I mentioned earlier, what we're doing with the Zen Vision:M at the $299 level and then increasing it when we add 60GB." That marvelously ambiguous statement could mean $300 60 giggers, or a new pricepoint for the new size, but either way it looks like there's a new Zen Vision:M headed our way. Other rumors point to a September launch date to coincide with Microsoft's WMP11 launch for Windows XP, and it sounds to be a good a date as any. The real question is when Creative will be ready ready to compete with iPod video 2.0 and the forthcoming Zune -- they need something to combat the real topic of the conference call: hefty losses -- but a storage bump still can't go far amiss.

[Via Digital Media Thoughts]

[Dirty @ Apr 23rd 2008 5:55PM]

I have searched online... Creative doesn't work with Napster now.. After fighting with Creative's crap support, I'm dumping my Vision M60.

Creative just needs to have customer support and treat buyers with respect.

The Zen I have was pretty good. But, Creative states they support Vista one day -then take it away and deny there was ever an firmware upgrade (like the one I need to work with Napster).

What is the latest firmware for this? Anybody really know?

[Mark @ Aug 22nd 2006 12:37PM]

does anyone use creatives crap anymore?

[Bryan @ Aug 22nd 2006 12:43PM]

le'ts hope they don't increase the physical thickness as well. The 30GB model is already as thick as the 60GB iPod w/ video. other than that, good news.

[Goatweed @ Aug 22nd 2006 12:46PM]

I have a 30 gig ZV:M and aside from it being very prone to scratches (solved easily with a $15 screen protector) it kicks ass. I've watched more TV & movies on it during my work commute than listened to music, but for tunes it's great as well.

I'll be upset of the 60 gig is $300 tho, that's 40 more than I paid for the 30 gig!

[Matt @ Aug 22nd 2006 12:48PM]

I use a 30GB Vision:M and love it. It'll be outdated in a few months, but for now it's certainly better than the equivelant offering from Apple.

[Alex @ Aug 22nd 2006 12:49PM]

I thought the Vision:M got some good reviews.

I'd love to see another company produce a fully featured PMP with a big HDD. Right now it's pretty much limited to Apple and Archos. It'll be interesting to see where this goes.

[o rly @ Aug 22nd 2006 12:59PM]

@ Mark : "does anyone use creatives crap anymore?"

Yes, because some people prefer to use a superior product.

[Desert @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:03PM]

Is it just me or does this look a lot like an ipod? Oh, and I love all the Apple haters. Wil is that you?

[ya rly @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:03PM]

@ o rly: "Yes, because some people prefer to use a superior product."

How can a product be superior when it is just now getting something the competitor has had for what? 3 years now? Please.

[Tu @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:05PM]

I agree. The Zen Vision:M is a lifesaver for commuters (who don't have to do the driving). Not having to transcode every file I have into MP4 is a great boon. Whatever's on the PC just gets dragged onto the Zen. My only real gripe is the lack of AC3 audio codec support - it's not just the lack of support, but the fact that if you try to play an AVI that has AC3 sound, the Zen just crashes and needs to be hard-reset via the pinhole. If it failed gracefully I'd be happier. If it could decode and downmix AC3 into stereo I'd be ecstatic.

[georgedakota @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:08PM]

i never understood the whole video on mp3 player phenom. i for one dont love tv so much i need to take it with me. i am happy with just a music player.

[GunForHire @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:20PM]

Sweet, hopefully this'll mean a price cut for the 30Gb version, as I'm going to pick one up myself sometime next month.

[Arethusa @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:34PM]

Are these players suppose to double as a weapon or something? They look thick enough to knock someone out. (Oh and the colours are ugly: who composed their focus group, colour blind basement dwellers from the 80's?)

[Fred @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:35PM]

I've been waiting for this. I hope they don't jack up the price. Why not skip the 60gb version? They're way over due. Shock us with an 80gb-120gb version. Add blue tooth, wi-fi, external outputs and i'll pay at least $399. There's a few other things i'd like to see but can't think of them all right now.

[Technojeff @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:39PM]

What I don't like about the ZEN VM is the docking connector, what is it for? If you compare the Zen to a iPod video-you want to record voice, you need the docking port. You want FM radio, you need the docking port. I want a remote control? Need the docking port.
I want to record radio? Can't even do that. But all these features are built into the Zen... So what does the port do for me except give me a USB connection and charging, which could have been done with a standard connection.

[o rly @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:43PM]

@ ya rly : "How can a product be superior when it is just now getting something the competitor has had for what? 3 years now? Please."

When you compare it to the current market leader and it has more and better features including things the competitor doesn't, then yes, it is a superior product.

I'm not even sure which competitor you're talking about that "has had something for 3 years now" that the Zen Vision:M is "just now getting."

[kx @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:44PM]

tryPODS anyone?

Go away creative!

[Otter @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:48PM]

I have a Zen Vision M and I love it. While I probably won't upgrade to 60GB, (since 30GB is enough for me currently) I'm sure quite a few will. I would prefer the Zen Vision M many times over an iPod.

[creative kid @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:55PM]

Anyone who actually values your SNR or sound quality will go creative 9 out of 10.

[pvilleSE @ Aug 22nd 2006 1:59PM]

Thank you creative!! I was planning on buy a vision:m this Christmas, and am glad I will be able to get 60gigs.

And yes vision:m may finally be getting a 60 gig hd but no ipod sports a fm tuner and voice recording unless you want to dish out a bunch more money and end up with a bigger player.

[Tommy @ Aug 22nd 2006 2:11PM]

If they release it in September then it will be another piece of chunky crap released to act like the ipod.

[Ian Jardine @ Aug 22nd 2006 2:21PM]

It's amusing how people like to insult anything better than an IPod.

[oqnet @ Aug 22nd 2006 2:29PM]

Technojeff you should try out the creative zen vision, thats not the m. I've had mine since it came out and I don't see any features on the vision:m that beat it. The regular vision has a larger screen comes with a tv out cable, has fm and has an ir port(doesn't come with the remote though you have to pay extra) without using the docking station. I considered getting the docking station but figured what would I need it for really. I can also buy a spare battery and swap it in with no problems unlike the apple ipod(one of my larger gripes with it as well as the lack of codec support). I do agree that I wish it had AC3 support.(maybe one day in a firmware update) these 60 gig creative zen vision:m in my opinion are far supirior to anything apple if you ignore the size. 2 of my co-workers have one and if I had to choose between a zen vision, zen vision:m, and an ipod video it would be vision, vision:m, and ipod video. The creative products are just more thought out in terms of menu, design(the battery though I miss the scroll wheel on the ipod), and battery(kills the ipod)

[astutefool @ Aug 22nd 2006 2:30PM]

The thing I find amusing is that it is Apple not companies like Creative that set the agenda.

The iPod nano released last year is plagiarized by the sansa and samsung z5 SEVERAL MONTHS LATER

and this is a subpar iPod video. Companies have been releasing products with "more fetures than the iPod" for a long time, but apple's market share still hasn't peaked. They can't get the right balance.

The one vaguely original thing I've seen recently is the iRiver Clix.

[allio @ Aug 22nd 2006 2:59PM]

how is it subpar? it has better sound quality, better screen quality, far better video support, better audio support, better battery life and more features than the ipod video. and it's cheaper.

the ipod is... thinner. and has itunes. woo. you're absolutely right. nicely researched answer.

[Eric @ Aug 22nd 2006 3:10PM]

"and this is a subpar iPod video"

Guess you have never used one. The screen has almost 4x more color, it supports divx right out of the box with no conversion, has an fm tuner, voice recorder, the list goes on. Granted Apple has the market share, but biggest share doesn't always equal best, isn't that what all the apple fans say about mac vs pc

[champwarlord @ Aug 22nd 2006 3:13PM]

@It's amusing how people like to insult anything better than an IPod. - - - by Ian Jardine [ ! ]

True! Sometimes the better products is not the best selling product. Take for example back in the 80's. You had Beta beating out VHS in video quality but did Beta make it Big .... the answer is NO. Now I have never owned an IPOD or Creative but with some research I have found, I will definitely get the Vision M!!!!

[astutefool @ Aug 22nd 2006 3:23PM]

Read the paragraph on vision m again, allio.

[Jarod @ Aug 22nd 2006 3:30PM]

Why bother? I mean Creative should simply shut down, accept defeat, and go away.
All those claiming its superior to the iPod are probably the same type that think Microsoft makes the best software in the world. So there you go.. shit for the dummy. What can you do!

[N @ Aug 22nd 2006 3:44PM]

I own a zen vision:M and I have a lot of friends that have an iPod. They all wish they had features taht mine has, like a long battery life, BETTER VIDEO QUALITY (Creative has 265,000 colors, while ur iPod has only 65,000).

Creative has better audio quality, check the signal to noise ratio.

Creative's touchpad is BETTER than the click wheel, it allows more versatile control.

Creative supports many formats, and is MTP (playsforsure compatible).

The only reason Creative is losing is because it doesnt not have the marketing power that apple has.

Also, ignorance by iPod users doesnt help the mp3 industry other than for the iPod.

How can u say Creative is behind iPod?? iPod does not have an fm radio, voice recorder, or any of the extra features mentioned above included. so what is iPod has tons of accesories, u need many of them to get the same thing ZVM has built in.

[tristanfey @ Aug 22nd 2006 3:47PM]

RE: Ian Jardine
"It's amusing how people like to insult anything better than an IPod."

I have a theory on this. No one likes to feel cheated. To be told you not only over-paid for something, but also there there is a better quality item for less money insults their intelligence. They feel like they were fooled.

I think this happens with many iPod owners, simply because the vast majority of them bought one because their friend, co-worker or family member had one. Most of them did no research on what features are offered among various DAP products.

I would bet if you took a poll many of them would have trouble naming a second player and very few could name a third.

Add on top of this, the fact that even if they realize that another product better meets their needs, they are now locked into Apple's system (iPod + iTMS).

[Goatweed @ Aug 22nd 2006 4:01PM]

I don't think the Vision:M is all that 'bulky' on it's own. If you use the flip-up Creative leather case it can be large but on it's own it fit's very nicely into my shirt pocket as well as pants pocket.

I previously had a 40 gig Zen Xtra that died on me, but I had a 5 year warranty at Best Buy so I traded up & got the Vision:M. The screen quality for movies and audio quality are both fantastic. Granted, it's not something I'd wanna watch all movies on but for commuting it beats a portable DVD player.

Another plus - with the video/out I can connect this to a tv or to the LCD screens in my SUV and the kid can watch gigs of Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, all without me having to burn & author DVDs.

[Osarkon @ Aug 22nd 2006 4:21PM]

Until recently i've always bought Creative against Apple, i didn't want no stupid overhyped mp3 player, no matter how nice it looked. 18 months down the line from my first mp3 player,i've gone through 2 creative mp3 players. Creative Zen Touch, which to be fair was a wonderful little thing, but THICK. then the Creative Zen Sleek Photo, which I never really enjoyed, the photo function was useless as you couldn't listen to music at the same time, and it was harder to use for some reason. Also the battery died in less than 6 months. not impressed. so when contemplating purchasing a new one, i knew I wanted something that had at least some chance of lasting longer, and it wasn't going to be a creative. so now i have a ipod video, and whilst i miss some of the creative functions (mostly the search function, priceless) , the ipod will do for my needs. If it lasts.

[Obviously @ Aug 22nd 2006 4:46PM]

That thing looks like an iPod. Although Creative supposedly has a superior product, it looks like the interface was reverse-engineered out of the iPod, but with a background image and the font changed to Century Gothic.

Maybe their master plan is to make it look like an iPod so consumers are fooled. I don't know. It will truly become "superior" when it stops copying everything from outer shell to inner interface.

[mikeR @ Aug 22nd 2006 4:52PM]

Now see, I used the Zen Vision:M and didn't find it nearly as nice as the iPod for a few reasons:

1) The touch strip is nowhere near as intuitive as the click wheel. I really wish Creative would use something like a jog dial or Dell's scroll barrel. How can anyone possibly believe that the touch strip is better than the click wheel? I say take an ergonomics course, because it's my firm belief that having the scrolling motion directly related to the speed and movement of your thumb (especially when it's constantly in contact) is better than trying to guess with a strip.

2) When doing a lot of fast scrolling it tended to trip up, especially around photos. Go forward and backward through the menus really quick and it can't keep up. At least mine couldn't. While the menus look really slick and are responsive enough when you're demoing it in store, it really left me frustrated. I'd happily trade the cool graphics (which do look cool) for quicker menu.

3) The screen isn't better, because it can't be seen without the backlight on! These are mp3 players first, and I like how the iPod's (which is reasonably bright and crisp I think by any standard) can be seen in bright daylight without a backlight on.

4) Disk Mode works flawlessly!

5) iTunes is a great program, certainly better than Musicmatch Jukebox or Windows Media player is. And anyone who is concerned about sound quality isn't going to care about Playsforsure or any WMP-based store.


Yeah, things like an FM tuner might be nice, but the iPod got the basics right. So those who think the iPod is an inferior player, try using one. There are some of us who care more about how well it does its job than how many jobs it can do.

[hollerhither @ Aug 22nd 2006 5:16PM]

I did a lot of comparison shopping before purchasing my Zen Vision:M, and I love it. Color resolution is spectacular. I'm mostly using it for video with select song storage because I'm hanging onto my vintage Rio Karma for dear life (!) and using that as my stereo until I can invest in a Squeezebox or other streamer. My only complaints would be the Vision:M's plastic "dongle" and the dearth of accessories as compared to the iPod. I guess if you're obsessed with iTunes then this isn't the player for you, but the hostility toward alternate brands is perplexing...

[Jake @ Aug 22nd 2006 6:02PM]

you guys seriously have to realize that the average consumer won't care if a screen has more colors or has FM radio. it's all about style. take the RAZR for instance, it has a crappy screen and camera and many phones have better features, but Motorola has managed to sell 50 million of them because of their thinness and style. The Zen Vision:M is a tank. It's at least twice the size of the 30GB iPod with video. The colors are ugly... Black and white look much nicer than lime green or aqua blue. Also, the iPod's click wheel makes so much more sense than the Zen's buttons. One: you're finger moves in a constant motion, you don't have to go up, then lift your finger, place it at the bottom of a strip and go up again; you just go in a circle. Two: the buttons are right on the wheel, which makes them easier to access and looks nicer. To the average consumer, the iPod is the better mp3 player.

[Mini-Me @ Aug 22nd 2006 6:17PM]

Jake: "The colors are ugly... Black and white look much nicer than lime green or aqua blue."

The Vision:M comes in black and white also.

"To the average consumer, the iPod is the better mp3 player."

Somehow I doubt the "average consumer" comes on here to rant about how everything copies the iPoo. Take a gander at tristanfey's comment. That's why people are pissed off here. Either that or you're all idiots.

[Ben @ Aug 22nd 2006 6:21PM]

I like how the back of the player blends into the white background ... lol ....

[Burroughs802 @ Aug 22nd 2006 6:35PM]

@mikeR:

"So those who think the iPod is an inferior player, try using one."

or, better yet, instead of just piddling around with them at a brick & mortar store (my local Best Buy and Circuit City stores had iPod demos, but they were vacant of any A/V content, for some reason) for a few minutes, why not actually BUY, and OWN both, so you can spend some legitimate comparison time with them...

while I'll admit the ZVM's touch pad is not as easily adaptable as the iPod's click wheel, it's more of a matter of spending, say, 20 minutes learning it's characteristics, as opposed to only 10 minutes with the iPod...granted, it'll take longer, but only lazy imbeciles would revolt at the inconvenience, or even consider it an inconvenience. Mobile phones take much, much longer to learn than most DAP's UI's, and no one ever gripes or bitches about that....

The scrolling of music lists is much improved over the iPod's, if for one reason only: back-scrolling, or the ability to scroll all the way to "Z", and then directly to "A", without having to scroll in reverse all the way through the alphabet again, like with the iPod. For large libraries & playlists, this is vital. And all you need to do to fast-scroll is hold either the top or bottom of the touchpad, and the list flies!! No worries about tendonitis in your thumb joint!

The screen is night-and-day better! In regards to video playback, video resolution using the TV-out (640X480 vs. iPod's 320X240, which looks like crap on a TV) You can dim the screen's brightness to 10%, if you want, and still see the screen in most cases. And even without the screen turned off (at default brightness), you get twice the battery life for video playback, and more battery life for audio playback, than the 5G 30GB iPod. Dimming the brightness should improve on that.

"And anyone who is concerned about sound quality isn't going to care about Playsforsure or any WMP-based store."

I agree with you here: purchasing music from online sites such as iTMS, MusicMatch, Yahoo!, Napster and Urge will not provide you with the best quality music experience, because of their low-bitrate conversions. And the iPod has never been considered among the better DAP's in regards to audio quality, although the recent 5th generation iPod is an improvement. But still, the ZVM has better sound quality out of the box than the 5G iPod, which has never had an integrated customizable EQ. As far as video support, the ZVM has more than twice the codec support than the iPod has, so while you may have to spend time converting everything to the iPod, you can just drag-and-drop your video's onto the ZVM, and they play!

I love my ZVM: downloading and managing the A/V content for it is no more difficult - and in many cases, easier - than it was with the iPod. I've bought the Creative docking station for it, as well as a third-party direct-connect sync/charge cable, so I do not even use the little docking adapter that came with it. It's not a brick IMO by any measure, but actually more at the proper thickness that I want for such a portable device (I think the iPod is too thin, and it doesn't sit in my hand right). Heh, I still remember the 4G ipod that out just a little while ago, that's just as thick as the ZVM....no one was griping about how thick it was, especially not the owners....I think that this is just a little fanboyism coming out...

The ZVM is the superior digital audio player, in my opinion. If Creative ever subscribes to the theory of mass media marketing, to get their ZVM into the focus of attention of the typical DAP-consumer (people who do not visit these sites, like us), then the ZVM would take off like a rocket. However, it's already been out for half a year.....

[Burroughs802 @ Aug 22nd 2006 6:42PM]

you guys seriously have to realize that the average consumer won't care if a screen has more colors or has FM radio. it's all about style. take the RAZR for instance, it has a crappy screen and camera and many phones have better features, but Motorola has managed to sell 50 million of them because of their thinness and style. The Zen Vision:M is a tank. It's at least twice the size of the 30GB iPod with video. The colors are ugly... Black and white look much nicer than lime green or aqua blue. Also, the iPod's click wheel makes so much more sense than the Zen's buttons. One: you're finger moves in a constant motion, you don't have to go up, then lift your finger, place it at the bottom of a strip and go up again; you just go in a circle. Two: the buttons are right on the wheel, which makes them easier to access and looks nicer. To the average consumer, the iPod is the better mp3 player.

Posted at 6:02PM on Aug 22nd 2006 by Jake

Jake, you obviously never held a ZVM in your hands...most certainly never operated one....why don't you try one out, and then come back....

and about these colors...as mentioned above, the ZVM DOES come in black & white....but if my memory serves me, didn't the iPod Mini also come in pastel blue, green, and pink?? And if - once again - I'm not mistaken, isn't the Mini STILL the highest-selling iPod ever???

Now, I see rumours here that the next generation Nano will come in multiple colors, similar to the Mini...will you call the iPod Nano ugly??

I've always wondered how the 4G iPod owners, who's iPod's warranty's are just now starting to expire, have felt all these months about these iPod fanboys calling the ZVM thick, and a "tank", when their iPods are just as thick.....all the fanboys use to rave about the 4G iPod.....interesting!

[Mini-Me @ Aug 22nd 2006 7:01PM]

Burroughs802: "Now, I see rumours here that the next generation Nano will come in multiple colors, similar to the Mini...will you call the iPod Nano ugly??"

NOooo! That would go against the Fanboy Code.

[astutefool @ Aug 22nd 2006 7:22PM]

"I've always wondered how the 4G iPod owners, who's iPod's warranty's are just now starting to expire, have felt all these months about these iPod fanboys calling the ZVM thick, and a "tank", when their iPods are just as thick.....all the fanboys use to rave about the 4G iPod.....interesting!"

It's no good trying to pass off a form factor that was "rave[d] about" in 2004, two years later in 2006!

It's interesting to observe the digression from the nasty nomad players of old to this, as Creative try to get the attention of people other than iHaters and Singaporeans.

[kickenchicken @ Aug 22nd 2006 7:35PM]

wow.... ipoo fanboys these days. seems that most ipod fanboys arent techies and no nothing about quality daps or well anything. now im not much of a techie mor eof a music lover. i liked th eipod. i found the zvm and immedialty fell in freakin lov ewith this thing. i mean how can you say that thje ipods still kin g when obviously the zvm is gorgeous fits eprfectly in ur hand and isnt box shaped like the ipod. i mean the ipods toooo thin and just irrateates me that its too thin and feel super fragile. u mayy think that the zvm looks like cheap plastic on the back but its actually painted aluminum alloy? or metal but i can assure you its WAy more durbale then the ipod. and the thickness is just perfect yes a tad bit thicker but i mean so what i rather much have a dap thats kick ass and doest suck like the ipod. so yes before any ipod fanboy tries to respond in a egative way please.. get ur head out of ur ass and look around.. the ipod empire is falling.....WOOOOOOOOOOO!

[astutefool @ Aug 22nd 2006 8:11PM]

@kickenchicken: Just because Creative releases another silly dap, which you think is the greatest, doesn't mean that the iPod losing its dominance. As I said previously, year-on-year sales for the iPod have not peaked. Also, can you try and make your posts a little more succint, I nearly had a seizure trying to read your last one.

[dave95 @ Aug 22nd 2006 8:39PM]

This is iEntertainmet!

Curiouse, if the Zen:VM (30) is already thick, how much thicker will the Zen:VM (60) be? And will the fanboys continue to claim the thickness feels just right in their hands? ;-)

[ZekeS @ Aug 22nd 2006 10:46PM]

Hmm, if the iPod is so damn great, then why have I seen no compelling reason to upgrade from my 30 GB Zen Xtra in the two years I've had it? I got it for $200, so it's not a matter of me defending my purchase. No, it's a matter of better quality in sound and in construction (and the latter's been tested plenty of times).

It's been oft shown that Apple subsists entirely on marketshare, not on innovation (hell, let's go to the root - who came out with the first HDD MP3 player? Hint: not Apple). They use appealing design and OMGWTF marketing to sell a lot of units. Seeing that I don't use iTunes, however, I see no reason to nuy a lower quality product. Simple.

Not saying that I hate iPods, mind you - the black ones are sw33t, and tempted me for a bit. Unfortunately, the price/performance is way too low.

(As it stands, I play videos on my Axim x50v and one of the many SD cards I have laying around. 640x480 screen + unlimited codec support pwnz joo :)

[Tim @ Aug 22nd 2006 11:40PM]

I see there are alot of people hating the Creative because it isn't an iPod.

I have a ZVM and I love it because it can play xvids, the battery lasts for around 4.5 hrs while watching videos. It supports a resolution of upto 640x480 for the videos, which look really good when put out to a TV. And the interface is really nice with features like search, where you enter a word, or part of a word and it will search the music database, very cool.

When an iPod can do all that, get back to me.

I don't use the iTunes music store, when I bought it there was no iTunes music store in my country. I don't use any online music stores, I have an allergic reaction to DRM.

[S.A. @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:47AM]

I have a Zen Vision M and I love it. I used a friends Ipod for a couple of weeks while I was selling it for him, and I honestly think the Zen Vision M is much better. Its much easier to use IMO and the video on it is much better. I didnt mind the thickness, it wasnt too bad and it actually felt in the hand.

[Jason @ Aug 23rd 2006 8:12AM]

I'm rokkin the iAudio, been waiting for the Creative to bump up the capacity. I may jump ship. I need a new toy.