Canon's 400D 10.1 megapixel DSLR

Canon US is still silent right this moment about the 400D DSLR, but it looks like Canon China's spilled the beans on their latest full-frame 35mm digital camera. Or at least we think it's full-frame 35mm, you never know with those translationbots that mention 35mm over and over; we also think it's got a 10.1 megapixel CMOS, 2.5-inch LCD, 9 point focus system, 1600 ISO setting, DIGIC II processor, ultrasonic dust removal, and, of course the Canon EF lens mount (for which they appeared to have announced two new lenses, the EF 50mm f/1.2L USM, and the EF 70-200mm f/4L is USM). They're still holding out on precisely how many Yuan it'll set one back (and when can spend said Yuan), but something tells us by the time we wake up tomorrow morning we'll have a whole lot more to work with.

[Thanks, Pete]

[Patrick @ Aug 23rd 2006 1:43AM]

Dear sweet jebus let this be true! I'm dying for a cheap full frame DSLR

[Josh @ Aug 23rd 2006 1:49AM]

Translation of the Canon.cn site with the posting;

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.canon.com.cn%2Ffront%2Fcanon%2Fnews%2Fbackend_news_detail.jsp%3Fid%3D2322&langpair=zh-CN%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

[Patrick @ Aug 23rd 2006 1:52AM]

On second look, it does NOT look like a full-frame camera. Running it through the fish: "lens focal length conversion factor is 1.6 times"

Sounds like just a step up from the 30D, which is weird since the 30D is one of Canons newest.

[Arpaxade @ Aug 23rd 2006 1:57AM]

A quick look at the page reveals "，EOS 400D使用APS-C尺寸（22.2×14.8毫米）!" followed by "是1.6倍". Looks like an APS-C, 22.2mm X 14.8mm sensor, 1.6x crop factor, as usual. Not to mention DIGIC II. Not such an amazing upgrade as far as I can tell.

[Drew @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:00AM]

That is definitely not a full frame (35mm) camera.

[Aaron @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:00AM]

70-200mm f/4L?????
Canon already have it long time ago. And I also have it.
What do you mean new lens?

[Vincent Diamante @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:02AM]

Looks like it's aimed squarely at the Sony A100/Nikon D80 feature set. Surprised at seeing 1600 as the high end of ISO, since Canon's SLRs have been ISO/Noise leaders with solid ISO 1600/3200 performance. I guess inevitable with the sensor size...

[Narfmaster @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:03AM]

Looks like the page has been removed though. :o Damnit. I was really interested to see the specs.

[Drew @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:09AM]

The new 70-200mm f/4L is supposed to have IS and weather sealing (the old 70-200mm f/4L did not).

[Brad @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:21AM]

A 400D would be a step up from the 350D (called the Digital Rebel XT in the U.S.), not the 30D. With Canon, less digits mean higher-end (their highest-end DSLR is the 1D Mk II).

[Shootist @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:46AM]

Absolutely NOT full-frame 35mm. Not even the recently introduced 30D is a full-frame(it has a aps-sized senor), and its plainly obvious that the much cheaper Rebel XT is not going to be 35mm. Canon wouldn't allow it.

Doesn't take a genius Engadget.

[totalundone @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:46AM]

We'll all find out August 24th as Canon is supposed to make a number of announcements then.

[bobby koerper @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:54AM]

i dont believe it.
i mean, full frame is crazy, cause there is not enough room for a pentaprism, and 10.2 MP & dust removal is just not a good step up for the 350d, cause it infringes on the 30d's marketshare while being a cheap physical design.
/although/ this could be relased in addition to a successor to the 30d because that was a very small upgrade from the 20d.

i'm gonna say look for 2 cameras or none, and i'm leaning towards the former

[noah Hamilton @ Aug 23rd 2006 3:43AM]

I agree with Bobby Koerper and Brad

The specs on this and the name totally look to be an upgrade to the Rebel XT. And Brad's right Canon will more than likely be putting out an upgrade to the 30D, i'm sure the 30D won't be aroud long cause Nikon will now have to camera's out with more mexapixels @ a better price. How did Nikon catch up so quickley. Canon i just know you got some stuff up your sleeve and your ready to create a gap between you and Nikon.

[Gambit @ Aug 23rd 2006 4:05AM]

The lense in the picture is a EFS lense. So if the picture is legit then it's not a full frame camera.

[Steve S @ Aug 23rd 2006 4:42AM]

"if the picture is legit" ?

It /CAN'T/ be "legit" (as in, a pic of the production camera). If they /had/ the production camera to picture, then it'd be MUCH closer to market.

So, it's some sort of marketting mock-up. Then it depends on how careful they were to consult technicians to elminate discrepancies, how carefully they consulted R&D to produce an "accurate as possible" pic...

FWIW and all that.

[Al @ Aug 23rd 2006 4:47AM]

>> i mean, full frame is crazy, cause there is not enough room for a pentaprism

So Bobby, how did they ever manage to make those full frame 35mm SLR's for decades then? Can't see Canon shipping a low price full frame camera (although the 5D will drop over time) as the budget market is happy with the 1.6x cropping. EF-S also allows for lighter and cheaper lenses at the bottom end.

The 400D sounds just like an upgrade from or replacement to the 350D to be honest.

[Horace @ Aug 23rd 2006 5:06AM]

A full-frame is impossible for the next generation of XXX-series, 1.6 crop ratio should be the answer and I think people are okay with it.

YET, Canon should have some headache positioning this coming D-SLR. First, they have to compete with the Sony and D80 for features that become standard in entry-level D-SLR: 10.2 MP, 2.5" LCD, dust removal(?), or even Live View, etc. On the other side, there is a pretty big risk that this new camera will heavily cannibalize the 30D market for putting some more advanced technology in a cheaper camera.

Will they stick with 8.2 Megapixels so it's at the same resolution level as 30D? Probably not, they have to go up to 10.2.

Dust Removal? Maybe

Internal Image Stablizer? Surely not, otherwise, Lens Market will be heavily affected.

Live LCD? Probably not

Upgrade to 2.5" LCD? Definitely

Stick with 3fps? Yes

Keep a smaller Body? Yes

Cheapy, plastic build? Of course

[Horace @ Aug 23rd 2006 5:09AM]

(Live LCD: am talking about Lumix and Olympus of course...but they're in another race)

[David Chin @ Aug 23rd 2006 5:31AM]

@Aaron - The 70-200mm f/4 is new because it now has USM.

[David Chin @ Aug 23rd 2006 5:36AM]

What a nitwit I am :-) - I meant the 70-200mm f/4 is new because of the IS.

[beardiebloke @ Aug 23rd 2006 6:20AM]

Was this really from the Chinese Canon site? 400D seems an odd choice in Asia where 4 is considered unlucky (let's hope it's not).

[acb @ Aug 23rd 2006 7:02AM]

Well, at least if it's not full-frame, your collection of EF-S lenses will still work with it. I'm quite fond of my 10-22mm lens.

[DagMX @ Aug 23rd 2006 7:26AM]

and as luck would have it, its just as i got my 350D..
oh well its the photgrapher not the camera that counts..

but im looking forward to what they do to the 40D then(assuming the succesor to the 30D will bethe 40D). I'm expecting 12mp sensor, 2.5/3 inch screen, a few more AF points and the sensor cleaning system

[Jeff @ Aug 23rd 2006 7:41AM]

"oh well its the photgrapher not the camera that counts.."

It's the photographer that counts, and photographers buy systems, not cameras.

The camera body is really basically irrelevant. I've had my Rebel XT for more than a year, but even if I'd bought it more recently, I still wouldn't really regret it. I've got several good lenses to go with it now and those will still work when I upgrade the body.

Going from 8 to 10 megapixels makes no difference. Do the math; the actual pixel size of the photos is almost the same, and whatever actual increased resolution there is (and that's measured in lines, not in pixels, and is limited by things other than pixel size) is not going to be visible in prints.

That's not to say there could never be a worthwhile upgrade or that features like a dust removal system wouldn't be nice to have. But from the sound of it, it doesn't seem like the 400D will offer anything much that 350D/Rebel XT users need to worry about. There are always at least two generations between models before it really becomes worthwhile to think about upgrading.

[Steve @ Aug 23rd 2006 8:44AM]

I'll 2nd Jeff. I also have had the Rebel XT for more than a year and it's a great camera. I also agree that the bump for 8 to 10MP isn't significant and I'll wait for when the 450D (12MP??) arrives.

Steve
PS And there is no way on God's earth that the 400D is full frame. Uhuh. Many of us end up spending multiples on lenses vs. the body, so there is no way Canon will make a camera that's not upwardly compatible (you can *not* use a non full frame lenses on a full frame camera).

[Mojo_Yugen @ Aug 23rd 2006 9:35AM]

Seems resonable except for the FF thing. It's obviously a 1.6 crop. It's about time the sensor cleaning got put in. Way overdue.
Maybe we'll see the 35D come out soon? Same body but a bump up to 10mp + the sensor cleaning? If you go over that you'll just start getting worse images.
All in all I like it but can't see a reason to upgrade from the 350D. I'm holding out for a 5D replacement.

[Al @ Aug 23rd 2006 9:41AM]

..an alleged translation of the chinese canon page can be found here:

http://www.bobatkins.com/photography/digital/canon_eos_400D.html

definitely not full frame and agree with the above posters - not sure the megapixel upgrade is that significant.

[Yves Roumazeilles @ Aug 23rd 2006 9:45AM]

Sure! It's possible to wait for the 450D and its possible 12MP sensor. However, for Canon, it makes a lot of sense to stop at the 10MP sensor right now, since it's going to be a really inexpensive Sony sensor (everybody is rushing to use it). It guarantees excellent prices for the products using it (even if it limits the possibility for differentiation).

More information (photos of the Rebel Xti - including back of the camera) on my own photo web site.

[Eric @ Aug 23rd 2006 11:40AM]

"So Bobby, how did they ever manage to make those full frame 35mm SLR's for decades then?"

Al, So Bobby, how did they ever manage to make those full frame 35mm SLR's for decades then?So Bobby, how did they ever manage to make those full frame 35mm SLR's for decades then?Look throuh the viewfinder. It looks like it's about a half mile away. After using the 1Ds Mark II (which, Brad, is the high end, not the 1D Mk II) looking through the viewfinder of a Rebel is just plain painful.

That's the very reason he mentioned the pentaprism not handling a full frame sensor. They're saving money making a smaller pentaprism and having it appear a long way away compared to the 1DS Mark II and 5D.

I'm jazzed about the 50mm 1.2 lens! I need speed, speed and more speed! (Not to be confused with the word as used 30 years ago.)

[Horace @ Aug 23rd 2006 12:46PM]

For prints, 8.2mp & 10mp doesn't make a big difference, that I totally agree. But, when it comes to a marketing standpoint, they need to have something that are comparable to the competitors, especially for the new DSLR buyers, who concern those basic specs.

I am using 350D with several lens, I love them, and I very much agree that the lenses/system play a more significant role than the body. Yet, I still want a 2.5 inches+ LCD, internal IS would be sweet too.

[Type-E @ Aug 23rd 2006 12:51PM]

Just like what sony did, put a 10.2mp sensor and add dust-removal. That's it for this generation.

[bobby koerper @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:05PM]

al: "So Bobby, how did they ever manage to make those full frame 35mm SLR's for decades then?"

in addition, all of those years of full frame 35mm cameras, do you remember a flash that went into your hotshoe rather than being built in?
sure the rebel ti and elan 7's have built in's but they're still taller than the 30d, and their viewfinder is nowhere close to the quality of the eos 1's and the like

[doug @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:30PM]

yawn. just keeping up with the joneses in the consumer market. i don't even care about megapixel improvements any more (8MP is more than enough for beautiful prints up to 11x14)... four things will justify the substantial expense of upgrading from my current camera (20D): better focus tracking, bigger/brighter viewfinder (full frame), more dynamic range (approaching large format B&W), and more color depth. as soon as these (pro and beyond current state of the art) capabilities find their way into the prosumer segment (~$1000-$1500 non-pro-sized body)... then i will upgrade. i mean, does anyone really want to archive petabytes of family photos???

[Theitnguy @ Aug 23rd 2006 2:45PM]

This isn't full frame. It still has the 1.6x crop. It is actually the succesor to the Rebel XT aka 350D.

[Frank @ Aug 23rd 2006 3:51PM]

Well, i haven't been keeping up with the jonses, I'm just now looking to upgrade from my original 300D. While i wanted to stay with Canon i was beginning to be tempted by Nikon's D80. The $300 lower price for the body (compared to the 30D) with a somewhat better feature set was starting to test my resolve. So say what you like, but for some this could come as a significant upgrade.

[ryusen @ Aug 23rd 2006 4:09PM]

If you cosnider Canon's model number stratagy, a 400D will be an upgrade for the 350D (ie: DIgital Rebel XT). This is proabbly designed to compete with the Nikon D80 series. Don't get your hopes up with full frame.. if the model number is accurate, that's highly unlikely.

The number of Digits determine the series with Canon:
xD are their best stuff. 1D 5D, etal. Those are the only series that have full Frame.

xxD are their serious hobbist series.. they would likely get full frame before the

xxxD series, which are their entry line.

[MoonBear @ Aug 23rd 2006 6:27PM]

It's definitely not a full frame DSLR. I don't need a translation bot to tell me from the spec, I read/write/speak Chinese, BTW.

You can also guess from the model number, 400D is a step up from 350D, which was a step up from 300D. All of them are APS-C format DSLR, period.

[Dustin @ Aug 23rd 2006 7:39PM]

"However, for Canon, it makes a lot of sense to stop at the 10MP sensor right now, since it's going to be a really inexpensive Sony sensor (everybody is rushing to use it)."

The Sony sensor in the Alpha/D80/D200 is a CCD sensor, not a CMOS. I see the 10 MP upgrade to keep the marketing hype in the entry-level DSLR market.

I'll be very suprised if Canon updates the 30D soon. I see them marketing the 30D more on non-megapixel features. I see the 30D as a being around for the long term - but it could end up being a bandaid until the reinforcement can arrive - who knows?

[Manyk @ Aug 24th 2006 2:12AM]

English page here.

http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eosdigital3/index.html

[Joost @ Aug 29th 2006 11:34AM]

i think the 300/350/400/ next 450 are all-entry levels after a while if you want to go on you have to change in a more prof. machine i personally will stepover to 5D full frame next week, the speed with high resolution is still miles away from traditional cameras, but if you look at the progresses there are made in the last 5 years prob. there will come some nice cameras high-speed up till 8,5 fps with cmos over 12 mp, for the moment there is the mark II N, with over 8mp/8,5fps.