There's no denying it, even though the
PlayStation 3 may be the most late, most expensive, and most, um, well ventilated of this this generation's consoles, Sony's also going out of their way to make the device appear as versatile as possible. So hell, if your machine is going to burn energy when not in use, best to put that power suck toward a good cause, right? Stanford and Sony have announced that PlayStation 3s will be able to participate in Cure@PS3, making gamers' consoles massively parallelized computing nodes for the Folding@Home project. (You're on
Engadget's Folding@Home team, right?) Right up top is a taste of the eye candy that awaits those who dedicate their Cell processor to stamping out cancer with the Stanford crew, but the veneer doesn't stop there: click on for a slew of sexy new PS3 pics that just surfaced.
[Thanks, Mike! Pics via
MaxConsole]
posted Aug 23rd 2006 7:06PM
This is great news
http://www.chasetheglow.com
Since this is a charity, this would allow you to tax deduct the cost of the electricity for running your ps3.
I don't get it...by keeping your PS3 on, you can help cure cancer? Am I missing something?
when you're not using your PS3 it goes into an idle state much like computers and during this time a program will self start and the powerful processor Cell to run algortithms and get data for cancer studies. I think it basically just gives scientist more statistics to work with. I don't think your PS3 could someday unlock the formula for a certain type of medicine or anything. Google also has something like this going around.
A full visualisation of the process being simulated will be shown and you can even minipulate the "camera" with your controller and view the protien from different angles...this is so aweome!
Hey...if you're not folding...get your wasted cpu cycles to work right now!
As far as I can tell it's like back in the 90's when you could connect your computer to the SETI program to help decode their data. In this day of broadband we'll cure cancer in no time. Well, hopefully before we find the aliens.
Um...pretty sure neither Folding@Home nor Cure@PS3 are charities....sorry :-p
That being said, basically what either program does is it has your computer or PS3 crunch data. This is called "distributed computing."
Instead of employing some massively expensive supercomputers to do the work, distributed computing allows members of the public to help scientific endeavors such as this (or SETI@Home, etc.) to analyze scientific data using thousands of everyday PCs (and now PS3s).
well yeah what this means is that when you have your console off it is still drawign power and you can set it up to connect to the stanford folding at home process where they use thousands of pc's around the world to make calculations that were previousley mpossible but now very simple.
So yes with your PS3 you can help fight cancer.
"WOW is sony that f-ing desperate to sell consoles?"
Who do they think they is trying to help cure cancer or how dare they!!!!! Ya best buy a nin wee-wee or else you're going to help cure cancer!!!
Does that mean me and my PS3 will get credit when a cure is found?
Depends, electro...if you have a picture of yourself standing in front of the tube, with that days newspaper, and the PS3's graphic this magical enzyme....you may just have enough proof for people to laugh at you AND respect you, instead of just the former.
This is actually a pretty cool thing. I would do it
If you could download video updates to see the progress of the research program, that would be really clever.
I'm sorry. The Lexar CF card cannot be inserted that way.
interesting.....I probably wont get a PS3...But even if I did, I honestly dont think I would let them use it for there own purposes.
I think its a good Idea and whatnot...since SuperComputers are very expensive...I just have no ambition to be apart of it.
Now that's what I call cool.
Since its going to a charity, what do you write-off come tax day? the electricity it is using to power the hardware or the hardware that is doing the work. or maybe both....
awesome! will engadget also make a Cure@PS3 team?
@ arch, hahahaha...wow. So companies can't even help without you guys thinking there is a catch to it. PS3 fits perfectly with this. It's a computer. While someone is not playing thier PS3 it's connected to the net and combined with tons of other PS3's to make what is like a super computer for cell research and analysis.
The other systems can't do that, so that leaves only the PS3 do this kind of thing. If the 360 could do this M$ would be all over it to. Sine PS3 has the power to do it, I guess SOny is using their powers for good.
Right on, Sony! I'll be happy to donate my idle processing time on my PS3 to a research endeavor like this one.
I'm surprised at some of the comments being so unsupportive. What a shame! Must be tweens because if you knew someone that has lived, survived or passed because of cancer and the tortures of treatment, I would think you'd want to help anyway possible. My mom is a breast cancer survivor and my 32-year old friend battled prostate cancer last year and now is battling liver cancer that spread through lymph nodes.
Both have endured tremendous pain in chemotherapy treatments and emotional trauma of the disease.
It stops being "funny" when it starts being you.
Props to Sony.
after checking that video I wonder what "real-time" really means... 2 frames/sec? I guess it depends on how many PS3's are working together...
I also wonder, could PS3's and PC's work together on the same work units? if yes, then fps could rise a lot. else, no matter how realtime and realistic RSX displays it, if it ain't working that hard, it ain't displaying that fast.
humm, i doubt this will be installed by default, so, could this be the confirmation of an open linux platform on the ps3(bundled with the HD)? They wouldn't add support for only this app i think.
"after checking that video I wonder what "real-time" really means... 2 frames/sec? I guess it depends on how many PS3's are working together..."
the intention isn't to create a 300fps animation full of effects, all the processing power goes to the WU processing.
plus, that wasn't running on ps3 hardware.
I just wish that they would come out with something like this for the 360. I already have it running on my computers at home, I'd like to be able to add three more processors to the bundle. My only concern would be about the heat, these systems already have problems with overheating. I notice that a lot of people seem to have questions as to the purpose of this Folding@Home. You should visit the home page for the organization (http://folding.standford.edu).
Blaine, Folding@Home isn't a new concept that was just created for the PS3's network-thing. The procedure of it's very much an "on the side" thing anyways, so it's not something brag-worthy in any argument.
Publicity, hey we're talking about it, aren't we? Plus, it's another way for Sony to advertise PNP in a very vague sense.
Blaine, go read Justice's comment.
He puts it there pretty nicely.
Why all the unsupportiveness?
Blaine,
Do you hear people who fold on PCs going around with big huge egos? Why is the PS3 folding program going to be different in your opinion? I fail to see what the PS3 has to do with it. Unless you have a good reason, I fail to see any point to your rant at all.
I read Justice's comment, I'm pretty sure the Xbox360 is perfectly capable of doing this; the hardware aspect of it anyways, no clue if they can implement it now. And please don't say I'm unsupportive, I even said in my previous comment that this is not a bad thing...please don't be so defensive about it, I meant no disrespect in my comment nor do I see it as disrespectful; and again, I'm not 'insensitive' or 'unsupportive' I was just commenting on an article.
Ok, this is directed towards Brandon...yes it has been available for pc's, but that's a pc...everyone with a pc can take part in it. PS3 is a console, there is a console war going on right now, PS3 can do something that the 360 can't do...I mean come on, fanboys will take anything they can get when it comes to who's console is better.
The PS3 will not be able to run this program at all times. When the machine is turned off, it is supposed to(and might be required soon by some laws in europe for example) to use the minimum amount of power. This is because the cost of electricity is non-trivial overall. That means that the Cure@PS3 could only be running when the user explicitly left the machine turned on and running this software.
As far as the capabilities of Xbox 360, it is definitely capable of doing the same computation. The computing power of the two machines is very similar. (see http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=19237 for some details) It is really hard to predict which one would be better/faster without knowing a lot of specifics about the problem. (For example, how much branching, floating point, or register pressure the problem requires) So overall this is a PR move by Sony to try to show off PS3 as something more than pure gaming.
(With the recent announcement by MS of opening up development on Xbox 360 it will be interesting to compare the hobbyist market for both)
Folding and other distributed computing projects are still unproven in their effectiveness verus cost. Yes it is great to have the resources (in this case, free compuatational cycles), but the money you spend in electricity would be MUCH BETTER served in an actual donation.
Leaving a single high powered PC on can cost between $3-$6 a month. Suffice to say, $40 a year donation is actually more cost effective in finding cures than visualizing protein folding on your computer screen.
In addition, most people usually run this on multiple computers at home and work. Electricity is NOT FREE. It still comes from nasties like coal, natural gas, and the almighty troublemaker, OIL.
Distributed computing at this moment is an absolute waste of resources.
Yes, there is a PC version, however, its assumed that the PS3's 8-core multithreaded Cell should perform this sort of computing much better. The site says the PS3 should able to bet 100 gigaflops per computer, and 10,000 PS3s would equal a petaflop which is equavilent to the vest 100 million dollar super computers in the world.
Protein folding is incredibly resource intensive, well beyond the funding of most bioinformatics departments. Every bit does help, and kudos to the PS3 for at being able to do it.
I don't like Sony and don't plan on buying a PS3 (atleast until some must have games are released), but I have to say, this is a pretty cool idea. I don't really agree with frozenrubber though, since most people would be leaving their computers on anyway, and still paying for that electricty. My computer is on 24/7. There's very few times it's ever off, and that's even counting reboots. On top of that, I have 6 computers on all the time in my house, so why would I care if I'm helping with something that isn't changing what I do?
The irony is that it's the electromagnetic fields emitted by your PS3 that will cause the Cancer it seeks to cure. Wonder who'll win the race.
zer06ame: The case you present epitomizes the issue. First off is power consumption of computers that are already on. While many think of power supplies as constant, a 500W power supply isn't always drawing/using that amount of power. It uses what it needs; and in most cases, about 130W w/ an idle computer. However, when one is performing tasks utilizing 100% CPU time, power consumption jumps up considerably (especially since the previous generation P4s LOVED power).
Next, people just dont' see wasting of electricity in the same light of other resources. One would see the absurdity of leaving the shower or faucet running 24/7 (even though you do actually use them everyday). That is obviously wasteful. Leaving 6 computers on is just as wasteful. And if you say you're running a server or some other nonsense, you could host that offsite in a much more efficient and equally cost effective manner (considering 3-6 dollars a computer a month). This is especially prevalent at work and an school environments. No consideration is given at all towards responsible energy usage. I can't even begin to imagine what the electricity bill is for a average dorm.
While some love the nobelity of helping a cause, donate funds and becoming active in your community gives more back as a whole then Folding or wearing a yellow bracelet for that matter.
*And with hibernate/suspend modes, computers now reboot in under 15 seconds...turn off your computers and electronics when not in use.*
All right Sony! Not only will this boost the PS3's publicity, but hopefully awareness of Folding@Home will dramatically increase. It's about time Sony does something cool with all that processor power.
Does anyone know the max wattage the PS3 can draw? Let's say it's 500w... if all 7 cores are folding (assuming the 7th one "assigned" for the OS isn't in use since it doesn't look like it would be) then wouldn't it be alot more productive than 1 or max 2 cores in a PC were folding using the same wattage? I'm not sure how Cell differs from a normal CPU but it seems like a good idea... I was folding on my P4 for a while but it was so slow and P4's use so much energy it didn't seem worth it... and I didn't like how it slowed down my Athlon64 system... but since the PS3 would be in use alot less than a PC and has a seemingly better performance per watt ratio I would definately use my PS3 for it... Maybe I can write the whole PS3 off on my taxes? :D
frozenrubber:
The element your missing is that by contributing to distributing computing projects, you are helping to develope the systems that will enable researches to solve hard problems. Folding, Rosetta, and the others probably haven't added a whole lot to our understanding of proteins. But they HAVE added a lot to our ability to understand how to create distributed models, how to apply those models to particular biological systems, which avenues show promise, etc.
It's all science that needs to get done.
As an example, billions were spent mapping the human genome. There's a lot of (potential) value in the genome, but in the short term, you might have said that the researches time would have better been spent on the worse diseases. Additionally, there's even more value in the ability to map genomes in general, and that science benefited immensely during the human genome project.
Think about it, how does that info get to and from your PS3? the internet. there going to steal your bandwidth and it will be gone in no time
400 watts max buddy
This type of thing has been around for years, I was doing it in the 90's as I have broadband and 3 PC's at home, all left on, I have them all running the Cancer program. Personally I've never heard of Folding@Home project but I personally use United Devices which is installable on a PC and you can set it as a screen saver or constatly running in the background using free CPU, and you can watch the progress of it, just like this one. You can also choose to help find a cute for Anthrax, Smallpox and decode the human genomne! or all 4 if you wanted. If you want anymore info or to download and join it just goto http://www.grid.org/home.htm (also set as my site link incase it's removed)
I am amazed at the number of people reading engadget that have no clue about distributed computing.
Guess that's what happens when you teach typing to six year olds.
I HATE IT when companies try to take advantage of charital organizations to push their products. "Buy a ps3 and help cure cancer. If you don't and buy a 360 or wii instead you're saying you want people to die!"
C'mon now hj. That really isn't the intention at all here. Sony is just helping a cause. Seriously. I don't believe Sony thinks that consumers are going to choose PS3 on this trait alone. Sony is simply doing what they can to help. It's noble, not conniving.
OK I NOW UNDERSTAND THE WISDOM OF THE “DOME”!
That curved top (all be it a pain in the rear if you want to stack it in a Home Theater system) is for keeping it COOOOOL! When the system is horizontal the heat is channeled to the center spine of the dome then wised away through all those vents pictured above. And you know, I’m starting to come around on the look. I just hope the thing doesn’t sound like an airplane hanger! “NOW, BREATH, BREEEEATH, MY NOT SO PASTY FRIEND!” RIIICOLA!! Um, sorry. Got carried away ;^)...
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OH, AND JUST INCASE YOU NEED ANOTHER PS3 REMINDER. IF YOU MISS THIS HOLIDAY CYCLE YOU ARE, TO QUOTE A FAMOUS FRENCH POET, FUX’ED!
"if all 7 cores are folding ... then wouldn't it be alot more productive than 1 or max 2 cores in a PC were folding using the same wattage"
Don't believe for a second that each core is as powerful as a PC's CPU.
In the year before the PS2's launch, Sony and the media were hyping the PS2's "emotion engine" processor and revolutionary architecture as a "supercomputer". In reality, it was just a crippled MIPS CPU with a pair of floating-point co-processors tacked on. It could barely keep up to a good PC at the time.
If the PS3's cell processor really was as powerful as some people think, IBM (who designed and makes the Cell CPU) would be building supercomputers with it.
In regard to:
-------------
If the PS3's cell processor really was as powerful as some people think, IBM (who designed and makes the Cell CPU) would be building supercomputers with it.
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They are.
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/09/07/ibm_to_build_cell_hybrid_supercomputer/
im not about to make my 360 go fold anything...with the cpu at 100% that fucker is going to melt.
that goes the same for the PS3.
"Don't believe for a second that each core is as powerful as a PC's CPU."
Depending on the application, they certainly can be, or more powerful, as has been demonstrated in a number of benchmarks and applications.
This sound pathetic when i get my 2 PS3
When i get my two PlayStation 3 to R^^ in SOCOM 4. I will always shut it down fully even if i have to disconnect the entire console. I will be saving my money for my own foundation Games that is. Sony should just stop talking and start doing some of its fake promises. They just keep talking at the end always somethings fail. This donating thing gonna suck PS3 user would want to shutdown not idle to lose $$$.
Nice trump card, Sony. Now no one can EVER say ANYTHING bad about the PS3.
Way to turn the attention away from your exploding batteries!
To all those bashing Folding@Home: I've been folding for quite some time now and on occasion visit stanford to oogle at things. Though I am not a researcher working on F@H I can honestly say that the work that it is doing is helping reasearch along, from a scientific point of view. The kind of single machine that it would take to actualy simulate that many different protein folding algorhythms is insane, and where it not for this project the amount of data for medical research would be severely lessened. Do not Folding is not JUST for cancer, it also helps with Alzheimers, Huntingtons, Osteogenesis Imperfecta, and some others I dont' remember. Having seen several people die from cancer, including someone near and dear to me, and knowing how much of a help this distributed computing program is, I am ashamed at some of you that are advising throwing money at the problem in stead of actualy assisting it in an active and viable way.
I commend sony for making a PS3 F@H client (for one because it saves me from having to code it), and for another, because it really does actualy help. I don't think this is in any way a publicity stunt, but moreso jsut a way to help, I can't see this as much of a barganing chip for anyone, not even sony.
Even if some of you fail to see the light even after reading this, then I guess your beyond help. My hats off to sony and even more so for those others on Joystiq willing to put forth the effort to help with this research.
hello
this comment has to do with the heat and noise issue of the ps3. the ps3 will use heat pipes, a feature developed at los alamos, that greatly reduces heat (to the point of awesomely cooled system-ness) and the ps3, like the new slim-ps2 will be just as quiet (super silent). no worries negative nancies! no worries be happy!
hi its me just fixing the los alamos detail... what i meant was that heat pipes were used in nuclear reactors and space shuttles for getting rid of large amounts of heat. they were greatly favored by los alamos (some guy specifically) but not developed by them (i think).
I applaud Sony for doing this with the PS3 because it has been said that the Cell's architecture is perfect for such mathematical crunching tasks.
I had hoped TiVo would do something like this years ago, but then again, the original 50Mhz PowerPC chip and the later/current 200Mhz MIPS processor weren't/aren't powerful enough to do such tasks along with almost-always-on program guide indexing.
Apparantly no one here knows exactly what F@H is, this should explain it:
http://www.teamhackaday.com/wiki/index.php?title=Folding%40Home
ok kids... stop bitching around about sony good / sony evil... its a good thing, and if youre too lousy not to leave your pc/ps3/xbox on 24/7 its your problem.
just one thing is really disturbing me: why dont they bring over the cool graphics to the PC/MAC GUI ? i sure wouldnt mind the eyecandy.... the actual version is buggy and looks like crap...
"the ps3 will use heat pipes, a feature developed at los alamos, that greatly reduces heat (to the point of awesomely cooled system-ness)"
Heat pipes don't reduce heat, they just transfer it from one place to another. Fans are still needed to dissipate the heat.
In the PS3's case, all this really means is that there isn't enough room for a heatsink large enough to cool the Cell, so they're using a couple of smaller heatsinks connected by heatpipes.
"why dont they bring over the cool graphics to the PC/MAC GUI ?"
1. Mac, not MAC. MAC is an acronym. Mac is short for Macintosh. Get it right.
2. Have you ever used OS X? It has plenty of eye candy, layered on top of well-considered UI guidelines.
3. Download some 3D screensaver if you want flashy 3D graphics that badly.
This is actually a really smart idea. I'm glad that sony has found a way to use the playstation to actually do something worthwhile. I'm sure it'll be nice if there's 80 million of these things cranking away at curing cancer every day. Plus, I'm sure if folding@home does cure cancer, Playstation will be happy to step it and get all the fame (partially justly so?) for curing cancer.
Crazy.
Lets get one thing straight, Folding@Home approached Sony not the other way around!
I am embarrased by the lack of brains of some, I have been running distributed computing applications for years and every time I check back at Folding@Home they have discovered something new, and receiving Nobel Prizes, etc.
I am sure Sony is very *proud* to say the least, and will use it as a playing card against Microsoft.. I personally have a 360 and should the PS3 have real potentional I will purchase it a year down the track, but something tells me Microsoft will come up with something similiar too.
Now stop crying about it, get the console of your choice and play .. If you are interested run Distributed Folding on your PS3 .. If not, bad luck for the future of Science.
I wanted to mention some details regarding protein structures. It's a highly complex molecule, and it's polar. Polarity is the cause for protein molecular fold. Since diseases or genetic disorders are primarily caused by different variety of protein folds (i.e. Primary, Seconday, Tertiary, Quartenary Structures...), it's important to determine what the shape of the molecule looks like in order to engineer a compound that will prevent the fold from happening. Mad Cow, AIDs, etc...are a result of several protein folds that interact with our body cell in a way which cause the cell to malfunction. I hope that all of you who are supporting this endeavor will continue to support us. Thank you.
A question why i con`t play dvd films or play ps2 games on ps3.
What i have to do???
So if I have this on my PS3 will it affect my PS3 at all? Slow it down, affect it in a bad way?
it is cool to see your ps3 due the pretty visuals but theo nly way i get it to work is when i'm on the program i think it's morel ike a program then a back ground thing
update didn't see if anyone put this up before but
http://folding.stanford.edu/FAQ-PS3.html