China orders "iPod City" to establish labor union

So, we're not sure how much bargaining power unions have in a Communist country, but much to our surprise, the Chinese provincial government of Shenzhen has actually demanded that Hon Hai Precision Industry allow its "iPod City" workers to unionize. Unlike American unions, which are generally organized by trade, the Chinese versions are company-specific, and must be affiliated with the All-China Federation of Trade Unions (or ACFTU) -- a body that has repeatedly been accused of colluding with management and security personnel in breaking up employee-led protests. You might think that the International Confederation of Free Trade Unions -- which had criticized Apple's investigation and subsequent report concerning working conditions at the Foxconn plant -- would be pleased with this development, but actually it argues that the ACFTU, as a non-independent body, "cannot be regarded as an authentic voice of Chinese workers." So in the end, are the Foxconn laborers really any better off now than they were before that Daily Mail article initiated this whole series of events? In reality, probably a little, but not much -- yes there may be some cutbacks in their hours and the dormitories may be a little cleaner, but until China as a whole is able to upgrade everyone's standard of living, the lives of workers in iPod City and countless plants like it will unfortunately remain mostly unchanged.

[Via Reuters]

[Nhathan @ Sep 1st 2006 10:15PM]

wrong flag. flag displayed is the flag of communist vietnam not of china.

[h00ligan @ Sep 1st 2006 10:46PM]

what is this, a democracy?

[vitaminbmeister @ Sep 1st 2006 10:55PM]

If China was to raise their stadard of living to the level of America we would simple move our production to a new country. In all reality, the lower quality of life standard in China allows Americans to buy our products at lower costs and help increase corporate profit. This profit strengthens out economy so that we can buy more products from China.

[tym11600 @ Sep 2nd 2006 1:23AM]

Shenzhen isn't a province, it's a city.

[tym11600 @ Sep 2nd 2006 1:28AM]

"If China was to raise their stadard of living to the level of America we would simple move our production to a new country."

Why not move now? There are many countries with even lower standards of living than China. Who is this "our" in "our production"?

[benwilliams @ Sep 2nd 2006 1:30AM]

i want to buy ipod in large quentity. i wonder if anyone sells here

[dave61 @ Sep 2nd 2006 2:54AM]

Juano - what makes you think China is still communist?

[gimpy @ Sep 2nd 2006 3:28AM]

>>What surprizes me is how many people think communism works.

What surprises me is how many americans think that their country's sanctioning of dictatorships as democracy = real democracy (let alone good working conditions). Just look at most U.S. backed "democracies" in Central / South America in the last 100 years!
wankers - too much of your own bad 'propaganda' (american school system / mtv / Tom Cruise movies). We all know about China - the last thing we need is tiny-brained, self-righteuos teen-geeks whose idea of history comes from hollywood movies, instructing us on workers rights. What a joke - every time I tune in to engadget to hear every self-righteous angry / spoiled know-nothing teen spew the same old short view of history on engadget. Yeah teen-America! teach us! Clearly YOU are entitled to call the shots! You *personally* can teach us! YOU earned it - each of you.
LOL! God your a funny culture - so myopic! I almost p!ssed myself when i read that! Go on - go assure yourself with a copy of Time Magazine! Too funny...!

[matchmaking services @ Sep 2nd 2006 5:45AM]

Don't worry, we're just holding out a bit longer maybe to avoid the inevitable crash they are facing. They are going to have a horrible depression, unless they nationalize (steal) all US holdings in China, an act of war. Just gotta hope their population loves us enough by then.

As for them not being Communist. Du'h. They've gone from Sozi to Nazi.

They are now more of a fascist-nazi oligarchy. Nazi mainly in the sense of Han supremacist killings and disfigurements in outer mongolia, and forced abortions of "undesirables" like the tibetans.

But their economy is taking off, just like Nazi Germany, and the only way to avoid a depression is to invade Poland, err I mean Myanmar (for their largest provider of oil).

[Yixian @ Sep 2nd 2006 5:52AM]

It's good to see people here actually know their political history. More than on most sites I have to say. Engadget readers; I'm impressed.

China was never a communist "nation"; for a short period it was in the state of revolution which by and large consisted of numerous groups, led predominantly by a Communist Party, were fighting to rid the country of autocracy and replace it with socialism.

Of course, as happened in Russia and Cuba, what we eventually saw was the hijacking of the revolution as it became clear the current ruling class was on it's way out, and so Mao and his cronies simply took their place.

There's nothing remotely communist about China. There's very little democracy in China, there's a ruling class, and workers don't control the means of production; the three basic definitions of communism.

Britain is a more communist country than China, and that's saying something.


Anyway, I hope this union can withstand the pressures of the ACFTU, which will no doubt try and tip this in favour of the transnational corps, usually at the expense of worker livelihoods.

Yep, the CCP really are the most enthusiastic capitalists in the world.

[yjs @ Sep 2nd 2006 7:51AM]

Oh wow matchmaking services, you win award for retarded leftie of the day!

[John Hughes @ Sep 2nd 2006 9:14AM]

Ignorant Americans projecting their values on a different culture.
There are hotel workers that don't get paid any salary, they work for just tips and food. And that is a good job. What about them? Oh I guess maybe they need a union too. Oh and a few billion others.
Sorry, off topic, I guess the subject is "The factory where they make the Ipod".

[Alex @ Sep 2nd 2006 9:59AM]

Not true. Corporate profits are absolutely ridiculous right now, they could be providing jobs in America where they are needed. Our economy isn't being strengthened, but China's is.

[Bard @ Sep 2nd 2006 10:16AM]

The funny thing is, China's government LOVES to promote it's application of nation-wide "Unions", when by structure a governemnt-led union is VERY un-communistic. In fact, ANY union is going to fly in the face of a "technical" communist state.

Unions, as a body so that the working power base has an equal and lasting platform with wich to conduct buisness as a partnership with the management of a corporation, is a very Socialistic ideal (For those who think Socialism and Communism are the same, take a political science course). The Union's target is to ensure the employment of the worker under the best conditions possible while meeting the company's goals to maintain high profits. If the employee is happy and secure, the company produces more and makes more profit, therefore making BOTH parties happy.

The Union functions best when NOT alligned with a government entity. In fact, you ask a company who'd they would rather deal with, and odds are most will tell you a union rep over a government offical because the union rep understands buisness, and is more willing to go along the give-and-take negotiation that is needed for a modern ecconomy.

Until China realizes this fact (as does Apple), you will have a one-sided arguement with governemnt officals and the corporations across the ocean trying to milk what they can out of a workforce that is on a terminal path to eventual shutdown. This is the "bursting bubble" so many poly/sci experts speak of when talking about labour issues in industrial nations.

[Reality Check @ Sep 2nd 2006 10:36AM]

I am an anti-semitic troll, please spam me: [e-mail], [e-mail]

[Cry Havoc @ Sep 2nd 2006 10:49AM]

A union vs. a ruling party who controls the entire government..... hmmm..... I wonder how that would go if it ever came to blows.

Why would engadged be surprised about this? The motive is obvious. Placate the workers by offering them a relatively pointless union and look good to the rest of the world while doing it.

[Cry Havoc @ Sep 2nd 2006 10:52AM]

Reality Check - I completely agree.

In addition, the government is attempting to speed through industrial development as quickly as possible, much akin to early 20th Century Russia.

[ben22 @ Sep 2nd 2006 11:09AM]

"Oh wow matchmaking services, you win award for retarded leftie of the day!" - yjs

Ah, that's a QED for matchmaking services; well played.

[Alex @ Sep 2nd 2006 11:28AM]

..............


I hate unions.

[Juano @ Sep 2nd 2006 11:40AM]

Well now that's a news flash, the working conditions in China suck. Next thing you're going to tell us is that conditions in Cuba and North Korea suck also. What surprizes me is how many people think communism works.

[CF @ Sep 2nd 2006 11:42AM]

Reality Check - So is your "expertise" on China from real, first-hand experience or do you think reading CNN.com everyday is enough to make you an expert on how China really is?

And you do realize the major reason for Japan's recession was their over-reliance upon the Dollar and appeasement to the USA despite no logical reason to do so. China won't make the same mistake.

Plus there is no way you can draw economic parallels from a gigantic country like China and it's even more gigiantic population to a country like Japan. It's idiocy.

[asdf @ Sep 2nd 2006 11:44AM]

US hegemony is on the decline and the signs are obvious for those who care to look.
The next century belongs to China and India.

[kle @ Sep 2nd 2006 12:01PM]

I hate the Communist Chinese government. The Chinese people deserve better.

[gargamelo @ Sep 2nd 2006 12:21PM]

heh someone plz photoshop the image and change those little red books and replace them with small red ipods.

[saiping @ Sep 2nd 2006 12:41PM]

I'm a Chinese and my english is poor.

but,i can read and understand the engadget website in English,who can read and understand the engadget website in Chinese?
Chinese know America more than American know China.

it's gaucherie comment something you don't know well.

sorry for my poor english.

[an_observer @ Sep 2nd 2006 1:55PM]

Saiping, I can read the Chinese, and I am an American. I can also read German and Spanish. Can you do the same? Don't bring that kind of mentality to this table.

Kle, I don't think communism is ideal for China, but I do think they should find their own path to a sustainable democracy, their own understanding of government. There is a very fine line between chaos and freedom. One model of ideology doesn't always fit all.

[DZ @ Sep 2nd 2006 2:10PM]

an_observer - what kind of "mentality?" I'm an American and I can read English, Chinese, and Latin...DOESN'T THAT MAKE ME THE MAN NOW DAWG?!?

The simple fact is Americans know next to nothing about the world other than the sensationalism of their evening news. Case in point: look at the differences in CNN.com and BBCnews.com.

[an_observer @ Sep 2nd 2006 2:11PM]

To prove it, the first headline of the Engadget Chinese = "allow you to easily experience the joy of flying."

[an_observer @ Sep 2nd 2006 2:16PM]

DZ, I was commenting on Saiping's comment. No offense. Btw, you assumed wrong about my gender.

My point, don't stereotype.

[Cry Havoc @ Sep 2nd 2006 3:36PM]

"So is your "expertise" on China from real, first-hand experience or do you think reading CNN.com everyday is enough to make you an expert on how China really is?"

I'm not who you're addressing, but I have to wonder what you consider seeing "first-hand" China, as if walking around the city proper somehow be able to communciate instantaneously the economic situation of the country.

I've never been to China, however, I have taken several upper level college history courses, and have spoken ad nauseam with my professor about the "state" of China (as well as America, Russia, and the Euro Union).

Without attempting to make any assumptions as to your own background -- can you not see how fragile the economic climate is? Anyone who claims India and China will unequivocally dominate the next century needs to provide serious evidence for such a statement. Developing rapidly does not mean developing well. Both my professor and I agreed that there are serious warning signs with all three economic powers right now, and that there is a good chance each system could collapse by 2050, if not before.

[h00ligan @ Sep 2nd 2006 9:34PM]

Gimpy, you need to spend some time on mises.org and read ludwig's book "socialism". While i won't disagree with your ascertation of real democracy, don't kid yourself about communism/socialism. From an economic standing it's rubbish - proven time and time and time again.

[chuz @ Sep 2nd 2006 9:50PM]

Wow! Only took 10 posts and just a tad over eight hours to institute 'Godwin's Law'. Go 'matchmaking services'!

I for one welcome our neo-Communist, psuedo-Fascist overlords.

[DZ @ Sep 3rd 2006 1:24AM]

"Both my professor and I agreed that there are serious warning signs with all three economic powers right now, and that there is a good chance each system could collapse by 2050, if not before."

Oh well I guess that settles it. Cry Havoc and his professor waxed philosophical over tea and cookies one fine afternoon and unequivocally declares the current economic situation in China to be unteneable.

And then calling me out to provide "serious" evidence? However I suppose you merely asking, "Oh can't you see how fragile..." is satisfactory evidence to the contrary.

So am I wrong in assuming your only knowledge of China, India, and their respective economic situations is derived only from what you see on the evening news (of course excluding the delightful tea parties held with your professor)?
Have you ever spoken with anyone living in said countries?
So in other words, is your supposed "expertise" on foreign economics any better than the average Americans? I didn't think so.

[DZ @ Sep 3rd 2006 1:27AM]

an_observer - I don't care if you are a man, woman, or beast. And I didn't assume wrong anything, in fact you did. "YOU'RE THE MAN NOW DAWG" is a common sarcastic phrase, and the "MAN" is the universal "MAN" - and not sex related.

[China Law Blog @ Sep 3rd 2006 11:10AM]

ACFTU is slowly gaining strength, particularly in its dealings with foreigners and this may end up having a greater impact than many realize.

[pika @ Sep 3rd 2006 12:56PM]

Well, some industries are moving to India this year because of cheaper laborers.
P.S. wow...this picture reminds me the stories about the hard times that my grand parents always tell me....(yes I am a Chinese lol)

[modbot @ Sep 3rd 2006 4:38PM]

Yeah, clearly China is not "communist". We call it communist because we haven't accepted "thugocracy" as a legitimate form of government depsite it's prevalence. Although I'm not really sure that's the point of the article. I think the point is... iPod City... seriously, what the #$#$? iPod City? Is that a dystopian sounding place or what? Sounds like something out of a cult film. I mean, I know China is bad, but I didn't think Apple computers was that exploitative. And they have the nerve to act like some people-friendly and good for the world type of company. I'll never buy one. They suck anyway. My wife's broke twice, and she gave up with Best Buy. It's a $300 piece of junk.

[Cry Havoc @ Sep 4th 2006 1:05AM]

DZ - So what you're essentially saying is that a doctorate of history and economics is worthless, because it was a discussion over "tea and crumpets"?

Sorry if I didn't decide to rant extemporaneously about economics on a technology website just to prove something to you. I'm fairly certain most of engadget would be annoyed any sort of post as such -- which would undoubtedly be pages in length just to scratch the surface.

But since you're going to continue to assume my ignorance, please do so. You have that freedom (which of course is not the case in other parts of the world) and I encourage you to pursue it.

I suppose making scathing remarks full of conjecture about your own lack of knowledge on the subject would have been more convincing, however, I chose to try to keep it civil by asking an honest, candid question which allowed you to a) answer it truthfully, or b) attempt to lob insults to ferry your point across. I see you chose the latter. Carry onward if you think such retorts make engadget a friendly place, because again, you have the freedom to do so.

[matchmaking services @ Sep 5th 2006 4:56PM]

"Oh wow matchmaking services, you win award for retarded leftie of the day!" by yjs

Wow. Never been called a leftie. I donate to the GOP, and run a conservative blogs, I live in Dixie and fly the confederate flag.

China will go to war for 3 primary objectives to avoid economic collapse.

1. China will nationalize our holdings and will probably dump its holdings of US Treasury bonds and switch to gold and euros.

2. China will most likely attack Taiwan to finish their war that goes back 60 years as a tool of appeasement to old Communist sentiments, to hide their fascist face. They will nationalize all infrastructure in Taiwan.

3. Less likely but possible: Myanmar. A majority of their oil comes from the region. They would stand to benefit strongly from invading.

But I added this: "Just gotta hope their population loves us enough by then." I hope the powers of capitalism and freedom have changed their Han nationalistic, Tibetan-torturing, Mongolian-genociding ways, and their "foreign-devil" attitudes toward the West.

Or else, by Jingo, we have a war ahead of us.

Though I think we might have an extra ace. I don't think the korean test just "failed" 35 seconds into launch.

[Juano @ Sep 8th 2006 7:49PM]

>>Juano - what makes you think China is still communist?

You are correct, I misspoke (or in this case mistyped)

What I meant to say is that it is surprising how many people relentlessly defend the totalitarian regime of China and continue to spew the left-wing propaganda that China is a "workers paradise".