Judging the quality of a moving image is an extremely subjective task, so it's with a little trepidation that we report on Hardware.Info's test which compared two graphics cards with twelve dedicated HDMI-enabled DVD players on the same Samsung 24-inch LCD monitor. The tests found that the PC -- which alternated between a ATI Radeon X1900XTX running Cyberlink PowerDVD 7 and nVIDIA's GeForce 7900GTX running the card's PureVideo software -- offered substantially better video quality than the DVD players, but here's where the subjectiveness comes in: the testers chose to rely entirely on the HQV benchmark DVD -- which requires
a human to rate each test -- to discern the quality of the playback. The test was also exclusively based around the HQV DVD, with not a single "real world" test in sight. Unsurprisingly, the ATI / nVIDIA setups blew away the DVD players with scores of 118 and 93 respectively: the closest score from the dedicated DVD players was the Panasonic DVD-S97 at 68, which goes for around $250 online. The reviewers concluded that people should ditch their DVD players for media center PC based on the results of their image quality tests: a conclusion that some would take issue with, mainly because there are a dozen different factors other than image quality that can contribute to a good movie experience -- but it's interesting to note all the same.
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posted Sep 2nd 2006 1:13PM
While the testing may be a bit subjective I wouldn't be surprised by some good pc setups seriously kicking ass. I mean with some of the top of the line video cards out there that run around $700 a piece you would hope you'd get better quality than your average stand along DVD player.
I've been running a Home Theater PC for DVD upscaling for about 6 years now....
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=26
In essence you can run photoshop-like image processing filters on each frame as the movie plays for very near HD quality.
I also have had my Media Center PC for over a year now and have seen much better quality on upscaling DVDs than the High-Def HDDVD/BR demos shown at BestBuy and Sony Store (granted my video card alone costs about half the price of the HDDVD player so I do expect somewhat decent quality). My setup uses DVI out to HDMI so I know I am putting the best qulity signal my HTPC can produce to my TV.
Given that, I see no reason now to take sides in the High-Def DVD wars. HTPCs, be they with Linux and Myth, Windows Media Center, or Apple (?) are a much better investment than than a $500+ DVD-only player.
...and if you build it yourself, you can score extra Geek points. Something you can't say with HDDVD/BR players :-)
For my work spend 80% of my day looking at various digital projected images for movies so image quality is important to me.
At home, I have a digital projector tied to a HTPC that I've setup to output great looking 720p video and a $25 cheap Norcent DVD player (progressive scan, component). The DVD player is slightly lower quality than the HTPC but for the convenience of not having to worry about getting the computer booted properly to recognize the projector, navigating the menus with a lame PC remote, etc, I use the DVD player 99% of the time.
It suprises me but the convenience is worth something and the difference between the two isn't painful enough to setup the PC correctly each time.
They didn't have either of the Oppo digital dvd players in test. Pretty much the best ones out there in some cases so until then Im going to stick with my stand alone player.
...all the more reason for me to get some quiet coolers for my computer sitting next to my new hdtv... cool.
I wonder how this compares with the xbox and xbox360 output through component since they are more like a media-center pc than a dvd player.
Does this mean that the PS3 Blu-Ray player or Xbox 360 HD-DVD player will play better or at least equal to the standalone players?
"I wonder how this compares with the xbox and xbox360 output through component since they are more like a media-center pc than a dvd player."
No, they are pretty much exactly like a standalone DVD player, except with worse video output. (The Xbox in particular has a notoriously bad video output DSP.)
I'm not sure what Conrad's beef is; it's been pretty well known for a long time that you can get better quality from an HTPC than from a dedicated DVD player. (nVidia's decoder is among the best in the business, hardware or software, and combined with the PureVideo features of their graphics card, it's a tough combination to beat, even without ffdshow.) The knock against HTPC's is, of course, that they're hardly plug and play. It takes some work to get the most out of them, and they're still a pain in the butt to use even once you've got them set up right compared to a standalone player. But the end results can be a lot better.
I honestly use my standalone player more often than my HTPC for watching DVD's just because I can turn it on and it works. My HTPC I have to sit there and wait for it to boot, then half the time various DVD's have issues that require me to change the overscan compensation or whatever. It's annoying when you just want to watch a movie. But the actual video quality is definitely better, when it works.
On a semi-related note, I've been wondering... how do PC CD-ROM players compare with "audiophile quality" audio CD players?
I have an Oppo DVD player and an ATI PC and it's no comparision, the PC is much better viewed off a TV or our Canon SX50 projector. The Oppo has jagged step-like diaginal lines where the PC has smooth lines down to the pixel. Our projector image is 12 feet from left to right so it's easier to see the smallest of details. The PC also generates better color, and gives you many options dedicated DVD Players doesn't. We also needed up-dates and tons of tweeking on the Oppo, more than we really did even on our PC! I have no reason to be partial since I have them both, and facts are facts, a PC easily can make a better DVD player!
I've also got the Norcent 'golden' dvd player and am considering adding a hard drive and new firmware. Anyway, it's all personal preference. If your eyes can't tell the difference, why bother? (that's what my wife would say!!)
Hmm, I'll take my Denon DVD-3910 based on DVD-A and SA-CD processing alone. This doesn't even include the new HD-DVD players from Toshiba, which have been rated as some of the best upconverting players on the market, bar none. I smell bias on their part and I'm not impressed.
Finally. Ditch dedicated devices. 'been saying that for a long time. Get a PC w/ broadband, get rid of your phone, your TV, your VHS, DVD players, game consoles. Use a PC for everything. I use my PC for music, my alarm clock, games, voice conversatons. Add video? Get a webcam. Add sweet physics? Get a card. Want it faster? Add RAM. Seriously people. I just want to unify my PC with my breaker switches and lights. Then I could schedule lights to turn on and off, instead of buying a timer(for you paranoid people out there). Unify. PC is the way to go. Not Apple, though- just the ones where you can benefit from the modularization directly. Boycott Apple if you care about the future of IT.
...Want radio? Add a radio/TV tuner card. Want HD? Get a new monitor...
Anybody get what I'm saying?
Alright guys, I have a macbook pro plugged in via DVI to my 720p projector, and running front row for a dvd is actually a pretty fun experience -- not too mention great quality video. Try it out, it's sweet if you already have a HD DVR hooked up.
Isn't that ATI's x1950 card in the picture? Granted it looks very cool but it's not X1900
Scott Frans: how do PC CD-ROM players compare with "audiophile quality" audio CD players?
Very very poorly. I haven't seen single PC-CDROM beating my beloved Harman/Kardon HD 760.
Audio is much simpler to process - compared to all the factors playing in in video.
You can get (often very) good quality with digital extraction of audio tracks, good audio card (e.g. Turtle Beach or Creative Live/Audigy/Value), pair of good hi-fi speakers, good amplifier and good cables. That what I use for my computer audio needs ;-)
P.S. Surprisingly to me, I didn't found USB sound cards to perform better than their PCI relatives. USB latencies are definitely adding noticeable jitter.