Is the TiVo Series3 worth $800?

We know that the TiVo isn't inexpensive by any means: currently the highest tier (180-hour TiVo Series2 DT DVR) will run you a few hundred dollars per year. However, the newest TiVo, the Series3 will retail for $800, a fair jump from its last iteration. HDBeat examines the question: is the Series3 is really worth 400 Jeffersons (or 80 Hamiltons, take your pick) ? Here's some of the things you'll get for shelling out that wad of dough: NTSC, analog cable and un-encrypted QAM support, eSATA support, front panel display, Ethernet port, two USB ports, HDMI TOSLINK and component out, can record OTA or cable, and, of course, has CableCARD support. Also, we should remind you that your lifetime TiVo subscription is transferrable to the Series3 for an additional $200 (though it's possible that TiVo's dealings with Cox and other cable companies may make it possible for you to get yer paws on a slightly stripped down model for far less cash). Still, TiVo certainly has a lot of catching up to do in the marketplace, and the high price will make it difficult to help out the company's bottom line -- we're gunning for 'em, though.

[mjsmitho @ Sep 10th 2006 3:00AM]

Worth it?

Short answer, yes.

Long answer, I would love to see some huge rebates, and if this is just MSRP some instant savings. Also a BB reward card bonus offer on this like they did our TV would be cool.

[Bryan @ Sep 10th 2006 3:01AM]

that's absurd. i got a explore 8300 HD from cablevision (optimum) for what...$5 a month? toslink, HDTV, three shows at once (two recording)...$800?

[RentMusic @ Sep 10th 2006 3:04AM]

Heck ya! I've been chomping at the bit for this puppy to come out. We have an old, upgraded TiVo Series 1 (120GB) and the Comcast HD DVR (120GB).

All of the problems we've had with the Comcast HD DVR (missed priority 1 recordings, vestigial recordings dated 12/31/1989 that I can't delete, turning off in the middle of watching a show) plus lack of TiVo features such as Wishlists, easy UI, and ONLY 120GB with no upgrade path -- they've all summed up to one thing -- my wife asking when the new TiVo Series 3 HD is coming out.

From the leaks on the internet, it looks like it will ONLY be 250GB for about 35 hours of HD. This is barely more than the upgraded Series 1 and Comcast HD box and it's not enough for all the kids programming on the S1 and my favorites on HD. For $800, I was hoping for atleast 300GB. Heck, even 400GB or 500GB given the prices of drives today.

But, yeah, I'm going be the first in line and shell out the bucks for a TiVo. And when the warranty runs out, in will go a 500GB or 750GB Western Digital drive.

So, given my appetite for total show storage, for me, the TiVo deal with Comcast or Cox doesn't make sense. But for people who don't have the disposible income to go full Series 3 but still want HD, the TiVo software on a Motorola box will be a welcome replacement what exists there today.

[mjsmitho @ Sep 10th 2006 3:15AM]

@RentMusic: "But, yeah, I'm going be the first in line and shell out the bucks for a TiVo. And when the warranty runs out, in will go a 500GB or 750GB Western Digital drive."


I haven't seen anything confirming this, but I have taken the eSata support/port to mean you can use external eSata hard drives to expand it's capabilities, am I wrong?

[Murc @ Sep 10th 2006 3:20AM]

I have cable (I use a cablebox).
Does anyone know of a method to record tv onto HDD's? I'm not talking about tivo, no monthly subscription crap. I just want a basic ability to hit record & stop.

OR....I also have a tv tuner card in my pc...its aver media, and a few years old, I can watch tv...but it errors when I try and record...its been being bitchy about that function awhile now. Is there any software program that I can use...stead of the one that it came with.

thanks.

[Wil Shipley @ Sep 10th 2006 7:09AM]

That's some strange math. How does 400 * $20 = $800, or 80 x $100 = $800?

[sleepyfloyd21 @ Sep 10th 2006 7:45AM]

>>That's some strange math. How does 400 * $20 = $800, or 80 x $100 = $800?

Because Jefferson is on the $2, not the $20, and Hamilton is on the $10, not the $100.

Jackson is on the 20 and Franklin is on the $100, thus Diddy's claim that it's "All About the Benjamins."

[voltron80 @ Sep 10th 2006 8:23AM]

In response to the subjet...

No, it's not worth it.

I love tivo, don't get me wrong. I'd expected to pay around $400 to $600 for this. And maybe with rebates it still will be, who knows. But at $800, you could buy a media center pc and use it for a couple years, not paying a montly service fee, and it would cost you about the same, if not less.

[Leo @ Sep 10th 2006 8:26AM]

surely for that price you could build a decent PC with no monthly subscription, a hard drive as big as you liked, multiple tuner cards and internet browsing etc from your living room...

[Daniel @ Sep 10th 2006 9:06AM]

$800 for the machine, + $20 a month for dual Cable cards + $60 programming, + $8-13 tivo service a month

Bottom line priceless for a rich man.
Thank g-d i can afford it, but I won't pay for it yet. There has to be an upgrade ooption for thetivo user crowd.

[Galley @ Sep 10th 2006 9:12AM]

I'd love to see the look on the clerks face when I plop down 400 $2 bills! They'd probably be one of those idiots that don't realize that there are legal tender.
http://www.snopes.com/business/money/tacobell.asp

[MrD1sturbed @ Sep 10th 2006 9:14AM]

@voltron80 & Leo: A media center PC would be cheaper, but remember one thing, as of right now you can't record anything other than OTA HD (no QAM) which means you are limited to only channels like ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX (no HBO, ESPN, TNT, CW, etc) until CableCard tuners come out for the PC.

[Jeff @ Sep 10th 2006 10:21AM]

Thank you! The more you guys say you won't buy them, the better chances I'll get one on day one!!! Worth it.....absolutely.

[Rob @ Sep 10th 2006 10:34AM]

With TiVo, I think it's about the ease of use and the UI. There are plenty of TiVo fans will pay the premium price to get this -- these people do not want to mess with PC or anything else that makes their media viewing experience more complicated. Then the HD TiVo price will come down a bit, and the fence sitters will pay the semi-premium price. Then they'll bring down the price more, and people like me may finally move to HD. But for now I'll still watch my highly-compressed SD TiVo recordings of Comedy Central and worry for a moment that I don't have HD.

[Chris H @ Sep 10th 2006 10:40AM]

Does anyone know if this new one still requires a landline phone for the initial setup?

That always bugged me with the current Tivo boxes since I can have it setup on my home network and it can do everything over that connection except configure itself when I move.

[Scott @ Sep 10th 2006 10:44AM]

$800? No. $400? Maybe. For me, it would only be worth the premium price if it could *completely* replace my cable company's set-top box, and at this point it can't, unfortunately. Using *only* the Series 3, I wouldn't be able to watch any of the on-demand programming from HBO, Showtime, etc., as well as free video-on-demand from the 20 or so others, nor could I watch any PPV programs, or Howard TV. I realize the Series 3 will "support" CableCARD2, but will it *fully* support it--will it allow 2-way communication? Everything I'm reading says "no."

[jk @ Sep 10th 2006 11:01AM]

Current TiVo boxes don't require a landline to setup anymore. You can do it entirely over the network (that's how I did the initial registration on mine).

Also, TiVo has specifically said that you will be able to add your own external hard drives to the Series 3.

[Bill G @ Sep 10th 2006 12:01PM]

As I commented earlier, TiVo will sell these only to existing or past TiVo owners and not all of those because of the price.

They will produce no new TiVo customers. None.

[Scoobydoo @ Sep 10th 2006 12:15PM]

Lets all rememeber that $800 hasn't even been confirmed yet by TiVo. Someone from Bestbuy claimed they saw they price, and I wouldn't trust Bestbuy if my life depended on it. It could very possibly turn out to be much less...

[tLo @ Sep 10th 2006 1:16PM]

@Bill G: "They will produce no new TiVo customers. None."

I don't think so.

[Scott @ Sep 10th 2006 1:21PM]

$800 + $200 lifetime transfer divided by 5 years is ~$16/mo, only about $1 more than the Comcast crap-dvr plus tivo coming out sometime next year. You get 2x the space *and* a much better piece of kit. I know on our comcast system cablecards have no monthly cost, just an install/change fee.

Cablecard '2.0' with OCAP is a sham. The cable companies want STB providers to essentially provide a VM for their crappy platforms rather than provide an API to their products so companies like TiVo can make better software. Its going to take a long time, and whatever comes out of it wont be widely deployed, from what it sounds.

I also hope that I can get the 'VIP' offer at best buy rather than direct so I can get some reward zone love. I've got $60 in certs waiting right here for the tivo or the wii, depending on what happens.

[Graham @ Sep 10th 2006 1:56PM]

My biggest concern is...will the Tivo Series3 have better image quality? The compression on my Toshiba RS-TX20 Series2 is horrendous, especially when connected to my plasma. And that is with the component connection. I would hope for higher bit rate compression. I've heard nothing mentioned about the actual picture quality of these new boxes.

[Wry Cooter @ Sep 10th 2006 3:21PM]

Tivo would not be going through the hassle of the past couple of years, if they had merely made the Tivos up through series 2 priced comparable to VCRs. I think the largest user base they have now, outside of DSS, is due to that sensible price offering, when they finally came within 50 to a hundred bucks of a VHS machine.

Because people didn't know what they were, or how convenient they could be.

I would feel better for them, if the new units were under 500. Maybe the street price IS under 500.

[Daking @ Sep 10th 2006 4:10PM]

no

[William C Bonner @ Sep 10th 2006 6:57PM]

Does this support ATSC? I know that most people get their TV from cable these days, but seing as how I'm still using my Series1 TiVo five years after I purchased it and its lifetime subscription, and have it hooked to an antenna right now, I'd like to know if the new TiVo can work without a cable subscription.

I watch FREE HDTV with my antenna, and I pick up all the major networks, I just wish my TiVo worked properly with the tuner.

I can't decide if $1000 would be worth the upgrade price. The TiVo interface is pretty sweet, and a truly functional remote is important to me.

[Ed @ Sep 10th 2006 10:36PM]

Step 1: Build computer with a large RAID of hard drives.
Step 2: Install Linux
Step 3: Get http://www.mythtv.org/
Step 4: Enjoy a DVR w/ no subscription fees that can also stream media to all the other computers in the house and with multiple TV tuner cards, record multiple programs at the same time.

Sorry, TIVO, can't beat MythTV in my book. But that's alright as I am more technically inclined than others.

[Ryan Gardner @ Sep 11th 2006 12:12AM]

"the high price will make it difficult to help out the company's bottom line -- we're gunning for 'em, though."

Assuming that demand remained the same regardless of price - the high price would most certainly help the bottom line. You really mean that the "lack of demand at that sufficiently high price" is going to harm their bottom line.

I agree, the price seems too high. Lets just hope they have some smart people working for them that can calculate the profit-maximizing price correctly.

[shlerp shlerp @ Sep 11th 2006 5:38AM]

how does the esata external hdd work? how much are those drives and how big can they be?

will the drive just add space or will it require navigating a seperate menu? will programs stored on it be encrypted? does anyone have any theories on this?

[Tom Boucher @ Sep 11th 2006 9:38AM]

Short answer. Hell No.

When the cable company can give you a DVR box for $6.95 a month that does just about everything TiVo does as a DVR spending another $800 + $6.95 a month + having to deal with the crappy cable cards (at least with my flat panel cable card it's a PITA) I just don't see the value anymore.

I have had TiVo since 2001. I enjoyed their interface, and some of their features, but I don't enjoy it for $800 extra.

[J @ Sep 11th 2006 10:08AM]

Scott, you think that box will last for 5 years!?!

I guess I should be working for some of you guys, 800$ (+200) is way too much money. Sure, TiVo's interface is better but the RCN/Comcast isn't 4000 Washington's worse; plus I have been enjoying recorded HD for months now and no love from TiVo. Also, when cable companys come out with new able boxes with better features (i.e. 2 tuners) they give them to you for free. Buying hardware does not seem worth it.

[jonathan @ Sep 11th 2006 12:21PM]

Look at the sales growth of flat panel tv's, average cost of those monitors, and then look at how people are going to get HD content on those tv's. I can see it merchandised very nicely at Christmas this year: Should I buy a Tivo with my new tv or a Blue-Ray dvd player for which there is limited to no content? Hmmm... 100% financing for 3 years? Hello HD Tivo. Hello 40" Plasma. Cha-ching. Sold. Ring up every guy in suburbia with a Best Buy credit card. Maybe not the smartest purchase, but definitely an easy one.

[Mamps @ Sep 11th 2006 12:49PM]

Well what would be the lowest possible cost:

Tivo Hardware: $800
Monthly TIvo Subscription for 3 years, prepaid: $369 (limited time offer, usually $469)
(2) Cable Card Rental fees = 2 x $1.75 x 12 months x 3years = $126
Time Warner Cable Card Install fee: $19.95
Total Lowest Cost = $1314.95 for 3 years = $36.53/month for 3 YEARS JUST TO RECORD Television ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

There's no way this is worth it.

[RentMusic @ Sep 11th 2006 5:20PM]

Let's address some things.

@mjsmitho: yes, the TS3 supports eSATA and so an external 750GB SATA drive may work right out of the box. However, I'd prefer to have the drive internal simply because, well, I have too much clutter in my entertainment rack already.

@Scott: (Will this thing last 5 years?) I have a TiVo Series 1 with a lifetime subscription that I've had for 6 years, 10 months (but who's counting). The internals worked just fine. About the only thing that goes south on these boxes is the hard drive, which I had to replace. This box is going to see "back bedroom" duty for the kids when the TS3 comes in. It'll probably be good until at least Feb 17, 2009 when NTSC phases out and ATSC phases in.

@Scott: Comcast OnDemand. This is the only feature that the TS3 lacks support for. Not because of TiVo but because of the Cable Companies and Open Cable and their stupid "CableCard 2.0" standards. I already have two DVRs in my set-up: 1) TS1 for the kids and backup recordings for key shows for WHEN the 2) Comcast DVR fails to record them for one reasone or another in HD (about once a month or so). My solution is to boot the Comcast DVR, save myself $10 a month, and exchange it for a non-DVR set-top box for when I want OnDemand. I don't use premium channels so it really doesn't matter to me for Showtime, HBO, and other stuff. Mostly we use it for kids shows and a beefier storage on a TS3 may take care of that problem.

@William C Bonner: Yes, the TS3 has 2 ATSC tuners, 2 NTSC tuners, and 2 QAM (digital TV) tuners. So, off the air is free. This is a GOOD reason to get a TiVo vs a Cable Company box because Comcast in my area doesn't carry all of the local ATSC stations.

@Bryan: If the Scientific Atlanta box is "good enough" for you, great. But, having used TiVo, Comcast, and Scientific Atlanta in rented vacation homes, the SA box has absolutely the worst usability of any set-top box I've ever encountered. Navigating 500 channels and picking shows with it's title picker is about as idiotic as me. My 7-year old could operate my TiVo at age 5. Can't say the same for the Motorola or SA boxes.

@Everyone doing the math: many of us are willing to spend a difference of $500, $1000, $2000 for a particular display technology, pay $600 a year to get premium movie channels when $120 a year will get you Netflix, but the "recording capability" difference of $500 - $700 is "too much". I've never really understood the resistance to paying extra for something that really allows you to control the TV in your home. And, unlike the cable company efforts to provide set-top boxes, TiVos have actually really improved over the 7 years since I bought mine. To each his own.

[Hintertux @ Sep 11th 2006 8:44PM]

I love the idea of MythTV and building my own DVR... BUT... to my knowledge there is not a TV Tunner card that can receive the digital HD signal from a cable provider. The Tivo 3 allows you to put cable cards into it such that you will be able to receive the digital HD signal.

$800 plus a monthly Tivo fee plus monthly fees on two cable cards. I wont wait in line for this model. I will wait until the price break hits or the Comcast deal with Tivo gets me a HackTivo for probably $15 a month extra.

I admit that Tivo is hands down the best DVR system out there but $800 bits. I am keeping my Series2 (with life time) in the bedroom and will let my daughter use it in the future. But for now I will suffice with the Cable Providers DVR even thought it sucks the big one.

[Brad @ Dec 22nd 2006 1:13PM]

Hi. I wanted to alert you that this posting "Is the TiVo Series 3 worth $800" contains inaccurate information. I purchased the Series 3 and received it today. Your posting says: "Here's some of the things you'll get for shelling out that wad of dough: NTSC, analog cable and un-encrypted QAM support,..." I was highly disappointed to find out AFTER I purchased the unit and make the subscription commitment that the TiVo Series 3 does NOT have un-encrypted QAM support. You need either a cable card or record from over the air signal with an antenna which of course is subject to bad weather conditions affecting the picture and having to adjust the antenna for the best signal. I am irate that a box that retails for $800 doesn't include unencrypted QAM support.