Microsoft has internal HD DVD Xbox 360 in the works?

Yeah, yeah, we've heard this plenty of times before, but one more time couldn't hurt, right? DigiTimes is reporting that Microsoft is hard at work at a second-generation Xbox 360 with internal HD DVD capabilities, and is currently selecting manufacturers in Taiwan to build the drive. Of course, they haven't even gotten their external drive out the door yet, so it seems just as likely to us that they're searching for another manufacturer for that drive. If this does pan out, DigiTimes is saying the internal HD DVD Xbox could be out as early as the first half of 2007. We're not holding our breath, but we can't say the idea of a souped-up (or maybe slimmed-down?) Xbox 360 doesn't appeal.

[yoni @ Sep 13th 2006 1:08PM]

i wonder how much this is 2nd gen xbox is going to cost...hmmm...i've heard ballpark ~700, where are the people lighting this up for excessive pricing, etc. etc. that everyone kills the ps3 with. people who talk smack about the ps3, YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT NOW. i don't own any system (except a pc)

[Enzo @ Sep 13th 2006 1:15PM]

"YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT NOW"
Not exactly, people who want an xbox 360 still have a choice.

[tracy @ Sep 13th 2006 1:16PM]

whats this ten best bras ever crap in the upper right hand corner?? im at work, if that stays i have to stop reading this blog.

[NNTPgrip @ Sep 13th 2006 1:23PM]

I would at least say a modular design. I would like to have a 360 where I could pull out the old drive and put in the new without opening the case.

Also, lets get a rev A out regardless with a smaller process for the CPU and GPU to lessen the heat and shrink that damn brick. (This is more important).

Also, give me the option to buy the actual GeForce 2 chip from the first one and insert it somewhere to gain full compatibility. I'll give NVidia $50 versus waiting for everyone to patch their games (if they are going to) to strict directx so MS can avoid paying royalties to Nvidia for true GPU emulation on the new hardware.

[Chris @ Sep 13th 2006 1:28PM]

If there is a new revision I guess they would add HDMI and do something about the noise/heat as well.

[adam @ Sep 13th 2006 1:28PM]

Well..as long as there is still a choice between buying the '2nd gen xbox360' and the one without an HD-DVD player I think this is a good idea. It saves people who are planning on buying both an HD-DVD player space and hastle. The PS3 on the other hand, makes you buy it ALL, even if you just want the console..

[HelpLine @ Sep 13th 2006 1:32PM]

@ yoni

Couldn't have said it better myself.

@NNTPgrip

Are you on drugs? Your acting like your Xbox 360 is this completely upgradable piece of hardware. You think Microsoft really wants people opening up their system and messing with stuff? Warranty = VOID. Sounds like you'll be picking up a PS3 come November. Well done.

Yours Truly,

Help Line

[slyecho @ Sep 13th 2006 1:33PM]

It's called duct tape. Bam! Problem solved!

[Maxx @ Sep 13th 2006 1:35PM]

What most people dont understand is that if you buy a second gen xbox MS has no way of transfering anything you have purchased to a new one while keeping the ability of others in your home to play the games and use the purchased material. Just ask anyone who has had to have their boxes replaced. You cannot play any of your games offline and no one else can play them either unless you are on-line and loged into your account.

They need to fix their software first.

[Evan @ Sep 13th 2006 1:40PM]

Yeah, the bra thing in the top corner is inappropriate.

[Kyle @ Sep 13th 2006 1:49PM]

Dear HelpLine,

You're a moron.

Don't forget that the PS3 is still a figment of Sony's imagination. Whereas people can actually go to a store and buy a 360. By the time November gets here, people will be lucky to see a "worldwide" launch of 10 consoles.

Next time, keep your "help" to yourself until someone asks for it.

Sincerely,
The Voice of Reason

PS Buy a Wii.

[Darksol @ Sep 13th 2006 1:49PM]

Wait a second, let's say Microsoft starts pressing games on HD-DVD (even though they have said that they won't.) What does that mean for everyone else who has bought a first model XBOX 360? It means that they will be forced to do two things. A) Buy a brand new Model 2 360, or B) have to buy the external drive (which they haven't even produced yet.) It may be win-win for Microsoft, but that sure does alienate a lot of customers who are unable to buy a new one or buy the external drive.

[Kyle @ Sep 13th 2006 1:54PM]

Oh, and for the record...

@ HelpLine
"@ yoni

Couldn't have said it better myself."

That just goes to prove you're an even bigger dunce then previously posted since a third graded could have "said it better" than yoni did. Yoni's post was barely intelligible...

[Chris @ Sep 13th 2006 2:02PM]

How can he buy a Wii if it's a figment of Nintendo's imagination? It's not out in the market, therefore it doesn't exist. Good logic there.

Anyways,

Fanboys need to realize that all systems are virtually the same. Except for a few kinks here and a few kinks there, they're all just about the same thing. There's no need to spending your life arguing which colored box is "better". I personally say that boxes that are blue are better than boxes that are pink.
As far as this potential move by Microsoft is concerned, perhaps they are seeing what they need to implement in order to stay competitive with their competition.

[yoni @ Sep 13th 2006 2:09PM]

Sorry, I was at work (still am) but now I'm on break

AHEM

Basically, because of its price (~700), I feel that those people, including the fine people who run engadgets, are now hypocritical if they disparage the PS3 while the absolutely fall over in love with this new XBOX. The pricing of the PS3 was considered one of its weak points, and people certainly made it clear (and loudly) that the PS3 would suck and the Xbox rules because of the pricing. I mean, it was pretty excessive as to how many people lit up the PS3 because of its price, while those same people proclaimed their undying love for Xbox. Where are the people doing this now for Xbox??? Cat got your tounge???? I can't stand that, those people are now very very quiet indeed. Xbox is no different or better or worse than Sony.

[HelpLine @ Sep 13th 2006 2:20PM]

@ Kyle

Suprised your smart enough to use the internet. You know what yoni meant. He was saying that if Microsoft bundles the HD-DVD internally they would be doing exactly what Sony is being ridiculed for doing in the first place. Making them look as bad if not worse for copying Sony's genius idea. What type of rudimentary language do I need to use for you to understand this concept?

Do you keep your Xbox360 power supply brick in bed with you at night to keep warm? Do you live below your parents house? Do you own any Xbox clothing? Answereing yes to any of these questions wouldn't suprise me at this point.

Yours Truly,

Help Line

P.S. Help Line is a band Kyle, a b-a-n-d. You know, like a group of people who hit things and pluck strings to make glorious melodies. You might like it if you opened up your conservative mind a little bit. Click on my name and listen...Shhhhhhhhh.

[Mauricio @ Sep 13th 2006 2:27PM]

actually, as Enzo stated earlier people still have a choice. If Micro$oft decides to sell both versions of the XBOX (with HD-Dvd and Non HD-DVD) the $299 Xbox looks alot better to then a $650+ PS3 to 18-21 yr old College student with no interest in Higher resolution DVDs.

i have lots of poor college student friends.

[Go Sony @ Sep 13th 2006 2:28PM]

To yoni

Right on Dude!

[E-Rock @ Sep 13th 2006 2:34PM]

Whatever. Maybe if the HD-DVD sells like crazy they might go over to a HD-DVD integrated device and if there's any truth to this rumor it's probably MS investigating that option.

The games don't need HD-DVD and unless they send every 1st gen 360 user a HD drive they can't switch to them for games. If they do, I'll get to enjoy some class action suit cupons while my lawyers buy solid gold cars.

[Kyle @ Sep 13th 2006 2:36PM]

@ HelpLine

First of all, hate to rain on your parade, but I don't own a XBOX or even plan on ever owning an XBOX. So, all yours dreams of fantasizing about me canoodling with a power supply are shot.

What I'm trying to say, though, is that it's a simple matter of choice! People that WANT to buy an XBOX without the HD-DVD player can! They also have the option to buy an XBOX with HD-DVD player. Now, so far, that's way more than Sony is offering anyone. Sony can't even offer a reasonable excuse as to why Europe is (once again) getting screwed.

However, it doesn't end there.

Sony is going to stick it to everyone in the world! All those people that came to this board everyday and defended the name and honor of Sony looked like fools when Sony once again turned their back on the consumer.

As far as I'm concerned, the only company that has been true to their customers has been Nintendo. Nintendo has maintained a vision for years and have yet to stray from it.

As for Yoni's post, I'm sorry I don't speak "Internet Retard." However, I do now understand he was at work and in a hurry. But, that first post was a joke. No harm, no foul Yoni.
Sincerely,
The Voice of Reason

PS Thanks for clarification that HelpLine is a band. Sorry I didn't check the "Internet Band Database" before posting here. Also, the thing you were talking about, with the plucking. That's a guitar. They're pretty cool, I've played one for about 11 years now. You should check it out when you're not busy licking Sony's balls.

[JinKazama @ Sep 13th 2006 2:44PM]

What all you 360 defenders are forgetting is the nature of game developers and technology in general. As console developers push the envelope of game design the added capacity of Blu-Ray and the included hard drive in each unit will become very attractive to those looking to push the limits of gameplay beyond what can be packed on a DVD, and before you naysayers jump in with most games don't take up an enitire DVD now...the developer of Resistance fall of man has already said the game is 22 gigs and it's not done. Oh and by the way, not compressing the game is not the reason for the size its the stuff they were allowed to put into the game due to the added space, see below...

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2006/09/11/why-does-resistance-take-over-20gb-glad-you- asked/


That is very attractive to developers, and as they see what the PS3 can do and realize they can't truly build the game they want on a DVD, Blu-Ray becomes extremely attactive. So the PS3 does not need to come out and dominate, if it gets a foothold in the market this gen as time goes by it may well become the console of choice for developers.

Because of this let's say the 360 decides to install a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray drive to remain competitive but like Darksol said...

"What does that mean for everyone else who has bought a first model XBOX 360? It means that they will be forced to do two things. A) Buy a brand new Model 2 360, or B) have to buy the external drive (which they haven't even produced yet.)"

...not only that, what if HD-DVD games begin to be developed once they do this, how ticked would you current 360 owners be that you have to buy another system or an add-on (that will put the 360s price beyond the PS3) to be able to enjoy it.

On top of that developers develop for the lowest common denominator when it comes to consoles so they can sell more games. So if the core unit comes with a DVD drive and no hard drive or Blu-Ray and a hard drive most games will be designed for that since that's the majority of the installed base. This is the reason console add-ons/updates only see limited success i.e Sega CD.

All in all if MS was smart the 360 would have come out with an HD-DVD drive to begin with. With the PS3's and Blu-Ray's relatively bad press and HD-DVD good reviews so far they would have been poised to topple Sony. They sacrificed that to get a head start, IMO it will catch up to them in the long run.

[Jason @ Sep 13th 2006 2:45PM]

Lets consider this at face value and say by Christmas time, Microsoft has a 360 HD-DVD capable. The people that are most likely going to fork over the 600-700 premium for this are most likely the members the same group that ponied up the dough last year for a 360, so as far as the market for this is concerned, it seems that there is a conflict of interest. It would seem much more practical as a business maneuver to release the external HD-DVD drive as an option, so that its base system can still compete, or at least try to, with the wii and PS3. I have no information telling me otherwise then common sense, but I could be wrong, and maybe Microsoft is turning into an everyday Ben and Jerry's, offering their products in innumerable flavors (see vista releases).

[DSR7997 @ Sep 13th 2006 2:45PM]

@Maxx - "What most people dont understand is that if you buy a second gen xbox MS has no way of transfering anything you have purchased to a new one while keeping the ability of others in your home to play the games and use the purchased material. Just ask anyone who has had to have their boxes replaced. "

It's called a detachable hard drive idiot.

[Go Sony @ Sep 13th 2006 2:45PM]

Okay, this is going to suck, I have an Xbox-360 without the HD-DVD player, obviously, and if Microsoft starts to produce games in HD-DVD, which means that, my Xbox-360 would be obsolete, unless I buy an external player.

I am curious, can Microsoft be sued for selling us a product, which is supposed to play Xbox-360 games, but it will not, due to games being produced in a different format, if it does.

I hope Microsoft creates an Xbox-360 exchange program, where we can turn our premium Xbox-360s in for a new second-generation system, and we will only be required to pay for the official difference (it does not mater if your Xbox-360 is new or old, age does not mater, unless it is damaged) of the system.

[HelpLine @ Sep 13th 2006 2:51PM]

@Kyle

Were you trying to be funny in your post by using the quotations? Amazing. I held in my laugh with the "Internet Retard" comment, but, man, I completely lost it with the "Internet Band Database" phrase. Kyle I must hand it to you, you might be the funniest guy to ever post on Engadget. God gave you a gift, don't you ever forget that.

Yours Truly,

Help Line

P.S. Teach me your quotation technique.

[Kyle @ Sep 13th 2006 2:58PM]

@ HelpLine

It's now clear to me that you are defeated. No longer are you even discussing the issues, but have fallen back on sheer sarcasm. I will assume this means you have seen the way and now know that I am right.

Nice try though, I give you an "E" for effort.

(I sure hope you find that E funny since it is in quotes.)

[Go Sony @ Sep 13th 2006 2:59PM]

What is the purpose of buying an external HD-DVD drive with no HDCP support?

[Chris Chenoweth @ Sep 13th 2006 3:03PM]

JinKazama, space is always great. I do think you forget how hard it is to develop for the cell processor. That is also an issue. Plus, Live is very attractive for game companies.

Sure, Blu-ray has space. Developing a 20+ gig game is going to cost huge amounts of money. Before long, they are going to have bigger budgets than hollywood at that rate.

[champe @ Sep 13th 2006 3:08PM]

This fanboy war is getting more and more funny by the day. Next year this time, this exchange, as well as the hundreds of other similar threads won't mean a thing. 1) Everyone knows that PS3 will sell out this year and into March 2007. If anyone would like to bet on this, by all means...2) I'd would rather spend the $$ now rather than later for complete integration, like most other hardcore buyers of anything/gamers. 3) By the time 2nd gen PS3 games hit shelves, the price will be lowered, in my opinion. 2006-2007 PS3 buyers will be the hardcore gamers who are looking forward to more exclusives, and generally having the most kick-ass piece of electronics out there.

[Go Sony @ Sep 13th 2006 3:17PM]

To adam

“Well..as long as there is still a choice between buying the '2nd gen xbox360' and the one without an HD-DVD player I think this is a good idea. It saves people who are planning on buying both an HD-DVD player space and hastle. The PS3 on the other hand, makes you buy it ALL, even if you just want the console..”

Well if the PS3 forces me to buy everything, then so does Microsoft. I only want a game machine, not a DVD player nor a CD player, so why would I want to buy an Xbox-360.

[Go Sony @ Sep 13th 2006 3:23PM]

WTF, if I buy an external HD-DVD player, then what am I supposed to do with my DVD drive. I paid for it and now it would be useless. So this means, I paid for the X360 (which also covered for its DVD drive), and if I buy the external dive, this means that my money went to waste on a useless DVD drive which is built right into the system.

[Joe @ Sep 13th 2006 3:27PM]

THERE WILL BE NO INTERNAL HDDVD ENABLED 360s this goes agianst ever offical word from MS/Major Nelson/and every other MS xbox employee that has comment on this, Jimmy Hsu is full of shit.

Agian 360 = For Gamers
ps3 = fanboys and spoiled bastards

in the event that MS did release a updated internal edition of the 360, it would only be well after the External HD-DVD (2+ years) is release so they could gauge the adoption levels if it get's widely adopted then they could move ahead with this "in place plan" for adopting a HD-DVD internal otherwise, its all bs.

if its not you won't see HD-DVD internal until 2008-9

The HDDVD is for MOVIES ONLY it wont affect game dev making games for DVD9 games, with the 150 + titles in devlopment. there not going to all of a sudden be like hey EA/take two / small game dev company you know that game you have been working on for the last year that 9 gb DVD9 game, well sorry but you could have designed it for a 25 gb HDDVD disc.

its retarded and bs.

[JinKazama @ Sep 13th 2006 3:31PM]

Chris,

Quote:
-------------------------------------------------------
"JinKazama, space is always great. I do think you forget how hard it is to develop for the cell processor. That is also an issue. Plus, Live is very attractive for game companies.

Sure, Blu-ray has space. Developing a 20+ gig game is going to cost huge amounts of money. Before long, they are going to have bigger budgets than hollywood at that rate."
-------------------------------------------------------

Point taken, the rumor was the PS2 sucked for developing but we all saw how that turned out, and despite rumors to the contrary the PS3 seems to be a lot easier (relatively speaking) to develop for. And all we techies know ease of use does not mean better i.e MS Frontpage.

Lastly, seeing as the video game industry makes more money than the movie industry already movie budget games aren't that far off.

It's going to be interesting to watch and see how this turns out.

[DCGuy @ Sep 13th 2006 3:48PM]

PS3=VAPORWARE

XBOX360 with an integrated HD-DVD = low cost solution to play HD-DVD's! Who cares if the game developers utilize it or not? It's irrelevant and not part of the gameplan.

[David A. Mendez @ Sep 13th 2006 4:08PM]

I don't like the misinformation that is going on out there about this whole HD-DVD thing. I think Microsoft as well as the bloggers aren't being up front about everything.

Apparently the add-on only has video playback capability and cannot support hd-dvd games even if MS started producing them. The new xbox 360 w/internal hd-dvd will support HD-DVD games.

If this is the case then Microsoft is in for a bigger mess than sony is when all is said and done.

Can the bloggers be clearer on their reporting instead of just trying to insight fanboy riots?

[NNTPgrip @ Sep 13th 2006 4:15PM]

HelpLine

There ain't a reason why it can't be modular in "Model 2". example: make it look all in one, take the faceplate off and you will see that the drive fits in there like a lego piece. This makes a drive swapout possible without opening the box.

I personally have no interest in any of the new consoles except maybe the Wii, cause I am cheap when it comes to games. I already have the HD-A1 for HD-DVD, and will most likely buy a standalone Blu-Ray player if I buy at all and it will be a pioneer just to spite Sony with their rootkits and proprietarys, MPEG-2 usage on High-Def format etc.......

[NNTPgrip @ Sep 13th 2006 4:21PM]

Oh, and this might be fixed next year or so, but BOTH HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are SLOW at everything. Like three times slower than my first-gen DVD player was ten years ago.

Also, both format's pit sizes are so small, the smallest imperfections, scratches, and fingerprints make the movies skip. (Marginally moreso for BluRay due to even smaller pit sizes). The Netflix envelope tells you to wash them in dish soap and dry with soft cloth before using.

Just FYI.

[Aaron @ Sep 13th 2006 4:44PM]

I don't understand why people immediately claim we can't still bash Sony for their ridiculously priced console just because MS is going to release a ridiculously priced VERSION of their console.

It still stands that you can purchase an Xbox 360 for $300.. realistically for $400... and by the time the PS3 is released it's looking like those prices aren't going to change but you will get a bundled game with that price another $60 value. (good bundles too, at least TONS in Europe, possibly GRAW in US, one of the best 360 games.)

I have some HUGE issues with some of the things MS did with the 360 but it is still the far cheaper console.. and just because I can buy an HD-DVD drive for it, or possibly buy a version with HD-DVD doesn't mean that the cheaper versions are going to go away. There is NO WAY MS would do that.

[Maxx @ Sep 13th 2006 5:17PM]

@DSR7997


Grow up and stop flaming people when you have no freaking idea what you are talking about. Why don't you accually READ my post and then educate yourself about the 360. Your purchased content is linked to your Gamertag AND your consoles seriel #.

Now who is the dumb ass ?

[Shmoe @ Sep 13th 2006 6:34PM]

The only thing MS has to do if they do decide to put the HD DVD drive inside and enable it for games to is to create an exhange program for the older models. You input your credit card info in, they overnight or express ship the new unit to you, you send your old one back or get charged after 30 days or so. Then MS plugs in a new HD-DVD drive into your old unit, checks it out for proper operation, and puts it up for sale at a discount, thereby brining in even more people into the 360 fold.

[shabbis @ Sep 13th 2006 6:39PM]

Could MS offer an upgrade for existing 360 owners? Mail in your 360 and have the drive swapped?

[dizzle @ Sep 13th 2006 7:20PM]

to everyone saying you still have a choice............what if they started making hddvd games would you still want your old 360? say games like halo 3 was made hddvd and couldnt be played without the new 360 wat would you do? switch to ps3? maybe.......
thats why sony made the rite choice buy making the ps3 all-in-one

[Cone @ Sep 13th 2006 7:29PM]

This is unlikely, at least for a few years, because there's a certain minimum performance they need to achieve with drive read speeds. The DVD drive in the 360 reads at somewhere around 16x, and while I don't have the numbers, that's much faster than any 1x HD-DVD or Blue Ray drive with it's native media, not to mention it's compatablity.

[_man1c_ @ Sep 13th 2006 7:48PM]

meh. as long as it doesnt use this for gaming meh. ill just by the external one when i want to finally upgrade to hd-dvd..

[Tray @ Sep 13th 2006 7:57PM]

Kyle, YOU ROCK!

[inferno @ Sep 13th 2006 9:22PM]

@ JinKazama, Kyle, Yoni and whoever else agrees with them:

First, there is a huge difference between this and the PS3, which has been pointed out repeatedly. 1) the $299 version plays all 360 games. For a bit extra, you can add capabilities or just buy a $399 version with extra preinstalled accessories. That is the key, accessories. The PS3 on the otherhand, if you buy the cheap one, you DO NOT GET certain capabilities. Add to that, if you don't care about HD video playback, all you want is a PS3 game machine, you have to spend at least $499. But $200 of that cost is BluRay. If they release a $599 360 with HD-DVD, you get that added feature, which any other 360 owner can add if wanted, but you are not forced to pay $200 extra for the GAME MACHINE.

Second, another issue was the increased effectiveness of BluRay in gaming. Developers have stated over and over they will not likely use the capacity required to warrant that excess size. Development costs are something developers have been complaining about for a couple years as it is. Can you imagine those developers complaining of the cost of using up a 9GB of content, much less 20 Gigs of content? Even Oblivion was push the storage limits of DVD9s while in development, but that didn't happen once compression and everything was added. Anyway, all you are gonna see is a bunch more high-def video, not the crazy long games you are hoping for. Another reason for that is gonna be because most devs are gonna make games small enough to release cross-platform.

Finally, someone said Nintendo always sticks to what they say they will do. That is blatantly false. Nintendo has promised online play since Super NES. They released the modem peripheral in Japan, in never came out here. That was also promised with the N64 and gamecube. Outside Phantasy Star Online, you have yet to see an online Big N product. That is just one product. They have several other failed products or products that didn't deliver what they were said to. N-force, powerglove, robot thing... actually, I thought they lacked support for both the N64 and Gamecube until well into the consoles lifespan (due to alienation of 3rd party devs). So, I plan to buy a Wii, but I don't hold Nintendo's promises with much more faith than Sony. Microsoft has stuck to their guns more so than the other two from all I have seen and experienced.

[Joe D. @ Sep 13th 2006 10:04PM]

The second microsoft releases a hd dvd drive (seperate or not) they've already lost to the ps3. The price will be only alittle different at that point and the ps3's blu-ray is superior.

[Ben Hobbs @ Sep 13th 2006 10:45PM]

If they can fit Windows Vista Ultimate on less than 4Gb, I can see no reason at all that games for the next 5 years + will need more than 9gb or so you get on a DVD.

Are there ANY games that come on multiple 9Gb DVDs out, even for the PC?

I don't even see the PS3 selling out at launch, certainly not getting 2,000 US$+ prices on ebay. I've only ever met one person who is even contemplating buying one, everyone else has an xbox360. I mean seriously if you are a gamer why would you wait for an extra 18 months or so just for brand loyalty to play high def console games.

[ComradeZ @ Sep 13th 2006 11:08PM]

Some of you folks just ain't getting it.

The XB360 *couldn't* have come out with an HDDVD before because HDDVD wasn't ready at the time the 360 was released. Waiting would've defeated Microsoft's aim of beating Sony to market.

Even now, a HD-DVD'd 360 would put the system outside of the price range of many potential buyers. Meanwhile there are hardly any HD movies available. So it makes no sense for MS to have done anything other than what it's done so far with respect to HD-DVD.

Will an integrated HD-DVD drive be in the future plans? Of course. Read between the lines. But just as obviously, MS has to disavow it because they don't want to alienate current buyers. Also, they don't want to get locked into committing to HD-DVD until there's sufficient programming available. If they go that route and the studios decide to line up behind Blu-ray, Microsoft would really be screwed.

So it seems pretty clear that this whole rumor is just a trial balloon to see how the fanbase would react to a release of an updated box. But nothing's going to get released in the near term. And when it does eventually get released, yes, your box will be in some sense "obsolete." But, no matter what MS does, the 360 will one day be obsolete, just like every other old piece of technology. In the meantime, enjoy the box you have.

[JJ @ Sep 14th 2006 11:55AM]

THEY CAN NOT GET THE FIRST XBOX360 TO WORK RIGHT