Toshiba brings 2nd-gen HD DVD action to the US

We've already seen these players get dolled up for their European release as the HD-E1 and HD-XE1, but now Toshiba is showing some love for North America with their new HD-A2 and HD-XA2 HD DVD players. No real surprises in this A1/XA2 followup, and not a whole lot of spec love. The main enhancement goes the the XA2, which can now output a full 1080p resolution, and includes HDMI version 1.3 for enhanced color and sound thanks to the doubled bandwidth. The best news is the pricetags: the HD-A2 will be out in October for $500, while the HD-XA2 should follow in December for $1,000. Not quite free, but a whole lot better than our friends over in Europe fared. Keep reading for live pics and some spec sheets.

[Wonderboy @ Sep 14th 2006 2:49PM]

Wait wait wait... where are all those people who were giving Blu-Ray crap cause the player cost $1000? Well looky here, an HD-DVD putting out 1080p costs the same.

Kinda smart to price the A1 cheaper with lower specs... they'll probably grab a few wanna-be's who are willing to sacrifice quality because they're bank account can't handle the $1k hit... but if you ask me, if you're bank account can't handle (mine is among that group) then don't step into the game this early.

Now I'm not saying Blu-Ray is in the clear... but I'm still hoping they'll stop treading water and start swimming for shore. The 50GB playing ability announced is good news for BD... the price point for the above XA2 is bad news for HD-DVD. Finally things are pushing the direction I'd like to see (come on, BD, push harder).

[HDMI misconception @ Sep 14th 2006 2:56PM]

HDMI 1.3 doesn't enhance the quality of sound, there is no increased bandwidth for sound. It has a feature for improving sound sync automatically. This feature is of limited use.

HDMI 1.3 does allow more color channels (6 or 7, I forget). However, there is no content in this format and neither MPEG-2, VC-1 or H.264 supports these additional color channels, so I don't see how HD-DVD will ever have this additional info.

Additionally, HD cameras only pick up 3 color channels, so the only material in this new format would have to come from film scanning it seems.

No direct-view TV will ever be able to display the 6 or 7 color channels natively and of the projection units, only DLP will be able to.

Between having to have a DLP TV, a 1.3 compatible player and source material in the new color scheme, it is unlikely any significant percentage of the population will ever see any picture difference with HDMI 1.3.

[CharlieX @ Sep 14th 2006 3:00PM]

High Definition Manifests Infuriation

[MuDoggy @ Sep 14th 2006 3:05PM]

its too bad hd-dvd can't fit an entire extended edition of lotr on their tiny movie discs.

[StooMonster @ Sep 14th 2006 3:18PM]

MuDoggy states rubbish. HD DVD's VC-1 encoded movies take about 12GB for two hours, it's three times as efficient as MPEG-2; and the picture quality of HD DVD completely outclasses the MPEG-2 rubbish that is the majority of Blu-ray releases. So, four hour movie -- that'll be 24GB which leaves 6GB to spare for audio.

Why do people think Blu-ray is great because it's theoretical disc capacity is greater? It's the content that counts.

[MuDoggy @ Sep 14th 2006 3:26PM]

@ StooMonster:
So, its content that counts huh? The majority of movie studio's backing blu-ray enough for ya?

BTW - so far VC-1 quality has not surpassed MPEG2. Yes, in the future it will, but not now. I work w/HD vid, Blu-ray AND HD-DVD, and trust me, when you FINALLY use it, you'll understand that once the kinks are worked out, space is the name of the game, and so far Blu-ray is up to 33.3GB per layer, with a 6layer 200GB disc that stays within the boundaries of movie playback.

[AG @ Sep 14th 2006 3:31PM]

So the HD-DVD players with 1080p are going to cost $1,000?

That was the only advantage that HD-DVD had over Blu-Ray was the price, now that it is priced the same Blu-Ray is the clear favorite.

Bye Bye HD-DVD, hello Blu-Ray.

[Brian @ Sep 14th 2006 3:42PM]

It's not content that counts Stoo when the content is the same. Only in the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD and Xbox/PS3 battles do tech geeks on Engadget suddenly believe the tech specs don't matter. It's amazing.

[Jim F @ Sep 14th 2006 3:59PM]

Re: Brian's comments

I think a lot of Engadget geeks are out of touch with the consumer mindset and the needs of the market. Toshiba has been quietly kicking Sony's arse by delivering HD discs that are comporable in price (media) to Blu-ray, look better (VC1 vs. MPEG-2) and play on a player that's half the price (HD-A1). They introduce their second generation players which fill the needs of consumers who have invested in a 1080i display and don't see themselves moving to 1080p anytime soon as well as those who are on the bleeding edge with a 1080p display.

HD DVD seems to be much more consumer friendly, which is where this battle is going to be won. Blu-ray should have buried it with initial releases, but a crippled, over-priced player, bad disc encodes and the insistance of the outdated region coding scheme -- HD DVDs are region free, btw -- I can order "The Pianist" from Japan on HD DVD and put it into the HD-A1 without problems. This is great news for us who are fans of world cinema -- will Melville's Le Cercle Rouge or Army of Shadows get US high-def releases any time soon? Doesn't matter because Studio Canal is releasing them both on HD DVD in Europe.

The studios -- even Columbia/Sony -- will end up releasing content on the format that sells. In a year or so, if Blu-ray hasn't put its foot into the consumer door, you'll see studios currently in that camp give up and start producing titles for HD DVD -- or vice versa if HD DVD goes the way of the DIVX.

[Dave @ Sep 14th 2006 4:01PM]

Hahaha. No mather how many toshiba players are out there they are all the same -> crap.

Go Panasonic!

[James @ Sep 14th 2006 4:05PM]

MuDoggy,

You are officially an IDIOT!

All of the review sites that compared VC-1 versus MPEG-2 encoded movies have stated that VC-1 encoded movies look better than MPEG-2. As for a 6 layer 200GB BD movie, we won't see a consumer application for it in your lifetime nor mine. So keep dreaming that you'll be able to play a 6-layered 200GB BD in your shiny new Blu-Ray player or PS3.

[Tony C @ Sep 14th 2006 4:07PM]

Wow. Second gen players already?? What's the difference other than "full 1080P", HDMI 1.3 and slimmer cabinets? Are these still PC components disguised as AV equipment?

[tk. @ Sep 14th 2006 4:13PM]

Remember BetaMax...?

That's how Sony's format is going to end up, if they keep all the blue laser diodes to themselves.

God forbid they go to something other than the already doomed PS3.

I want a PS3, so I can leave it in the packaging just like my Sega Saturn.

[Chris Chenoweth @ Sep 14th 2006 4:14PM]

I did notice a nice big Blu-Ray display in Circuit City.. That's proof enough for me not to buy it. Circuit City always displays failing brands right in front.

[macona @ Sep 14th 2006 4:32PM]

Yep. Remember DIVX? Buy a DVD and you get to watch it for something like 24 hours and if you still like it you can pay each other time you watch it... Hey... That sounds like the wifi feature in Zune!

I may be wrong on the details on old DIVX, but you get the gist...

[macona @ Sep 14th 2006 4:34PM]

Oh, and that post relates to the fact that Circuit City was heavily invested and promoting it.

[nathanieljla @ Sep 14th 2006 4:48PM]

HDMI misconception, you sure on your audio statement. I was looking into new receivers about a month ago, and found some reason that 1.3 would be better. Sadly my mind is lost so I can't find the exact reasons, but a search did find this...
#
New lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI’s current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new, lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™.

or

In terms of audio, HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new, lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby® TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio™ which provide up to 8 channels of lossless surround sound. This will give users the highest quality audio experience – the same as in the movie theater.

[Dan @ Sep 14th 2006 5:13PM]

They're onto 2nd Gen?!

Guess i missed the 1st Gen then...

[Fezmid @ Sep 14th 2006 6:39PM]

nathanieljla -- to clear up some potential misconceptions -- the CURRENT HD-DVD player plays lossless audio because the decoder is IN THE PLAYER. Simply plug the analog outputs or the HDMI cable to any receiver (or TV0, and you get the full lossless audio. No HDMI 1.3 needed.

HDMI 1.3 would only be needed if you wanted to decode the audio stream in the receiver. However, no receivers even have that ability yet, so....

In addition, 1080p doesn't really gain you anything anyway - do some research (for example, projectorcentral.com) and you'll see that it's just not important.

And I'm so sick of hearing the "studio support" argument. I don't see Disney or Sony jumping up and delivering any good movies yet... So that's not going to help BD unless they do. BD seems based on "in the future, you'll get something good" instead of giving people what they want now.

So until then, I'll keep watching HD-DVD as will everyone else interested in HD movies.

[Camperton @ Sep 14th 2006 6:54PM]

I just wanna watch movies. Is that too much to ask?

[Fezmid @ Sep 14th 2006 7:08PM]

Camperton - nope, it's not. And buying an HD-DVD player will let you do just that. The current model (which is a bit bigger than the new ones, but actually seems to have more features than the low-end one coming out next month) is less than $400 nowadays (at Amazon, for example) A pure steal if you have an HDTV.

[Ross @ Sep 14th 2006 7:23PM]

I really wish either Sony or Toshiba would just give it up and just let us all invest in one format.

Law of averages say that if the standalone BD players out there are performing worse than the HD-DVD players, then the PS3 (Sony's key to Blu-Ray domination, it would seem) can only be worse at the price point it's at.

I honestly don't mind who ends up on top, I just wish they'd hurry up and decide so some of us 'normal' folk can put our money down and buy a player to play some High-Def movies.

[Camperton @ Sep 14th 2006 7:37PM]

I've decided to go with HD-DVD, because I'm not buying a PS3 and I have a feeling all the pron is gonna be on HD-DVD. I'll pick up that player in October since it's relatively cheap and my TV only does 1080i anyway.

[James @ Sep 14th 2006 7:46PM]

Tony C,

"Are these still PC components disguised as AV equipment?"

I believe the 2nd gen is all CE components and no more Pentium or sticks of memory inside the disguised box.

[Peter @ Sep 14th 2006 9:17PM]

The real winner is the HD-A2 which costs the same as the HD-A1 but is much smaller in size and has load times that are reduced by half. 1080P on a hi-def DVD player doesn't offer anything because 1080P HDTVs de-interlace all 1080i signals thereby displaying the same 1080P image that one would see from a 1080p player.

[Nuggins @ Sep 14th 2006 9:48PM]

I refuse to spend that much money on something that looks like a fscking VCR. Why not throw a nice OLED display on the front of the thing and make it look like it costs $500.

[Shmoe @ Sep 15th 2006 3:32AM]

Blockbuster has more than double the HD-DVD titles available for rent online than Blunder-Ray.

[GhostDoggy @ Sep 15th 2006 5:18AM]

So, in order to get 1080P off of the HD DVD or Blu-ray disks its going to cost you $1,000 no matter what. I see zero price advantage between the two competing formats. Another stalemate and another reason to 'just say no'.

[HTNut @ Sep 17th 2006 8:17PM]

HD-DVD players up res your "Old" DVDs as well.

[john paul clarke @ Jun 20th 2007 9:39PM]

Hello

I actually own a toshiba HD-A1 player as I bought it off dvdworldusa.com (player package,6 disc's as well) a while ago and the only crumble I have apart from the loading times is it only plays region 1 dvd's (normal dvd disc's) as it is not coded for pal and if you put any dvd's that are pal it comes up with region error message, I have recently bought a cheap uk HD-DVD sampler so I will see when it comes if my player will play my country hd dvd's or if the pal issue will come up.

at the moment I can only play the hd-dvd movies I have imported from the usa and my region 1 dvd's and I suppose it will play any japanese hd-dvd's as they will be ntsc like the usa disc's and being HD will be region free unlike the blue ray disc's that are region A.

I haven't come across any region hacks for the A1 yet that will let me play my uk dvd's.

[john paul clarke @ Aug 15th 2007 10:46PM]

Hello Again

I have found out that all hd dvd's can play on any hd dvd player no matter what country the disc is from or what country the machine is from as I have tried both usa and uk hd dvd's in my toshiba hd-a1 from the usa and both work so in respect the hd dvd disc's are region free and not pal or ntsc coded unlike the blue ray disc's that are region a and region b.