Immersion survey suggests Sony better get ready to rumble
Not only does the (completely unbiased) poll report that 72% of the 1,075 respondents agree vibration feedback enhances their game experience, it goes on to note that 59% of those surveyed would prefer rumble on the PS3 controller, while only 8% care about motion / tilt sensing (sorry, Nintendo). As if these numbers didn't paint a clear enough picture of the message Immersion is trying to convey, two further questions spell it out even more explicitly: when asked if the lack of rumble capabilities would affect their buying decisions (apparently 74% of those polled weren't even aware of the "no rumble" policy -- clearly no Engadget readers amongst that bunch), 5% said that it would definitely cause them not to buy a PS3 and 32% claimed that they were less likely to pick one up for this reason and this reason alone. Now obviously Immersion knew exactly the results that it wanted before it conducted this "study," and probably phrased the questions in order to get the most desirable data set, but even non-statistics majors like ourselves could have figured out that gamers accustomed to the fun of Dual Shock would be in for a letdown the first time they picked up a rumble-free SIXAXIS controller.
Okay, Sony, the cards are on the table, and even if these numbers are skewed, you know full well that you can't be the only player in the game without a little vibration action going on. So what's it gonna be: are you going to keep hoping that some appeals court finally overturns the numerous prior decisions against you, or are you going to shell out some dough just like Microsoft and Nintendo did, and finally give the majority of your target audience what it wants? To us, it doesn't really seem like much of a choice at all.
Filed under: Gaming
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
narco @ Sep 25th 2006 10:31PM
A hair over 1,000 isn't exactly polling. I can't imagine the lack of a vibrating controller would actually cause people not to buy a system.
Fishes,
narco.
SKI @ Sep 25th 2006 10:36PM
So what's it gonna be: are you going to keep hoping that some appeals court finally overturns the numerous prior decisions against you, or are you going to shell out some dough just like Microsoft and Nintendo did,
I thought Nintendo had made it's own rumble tech and Immersion said they were trying to find out if the Wii-mote violated it's patents. When did Nintendo ever pay?
Morder @ Sep 25th 2006 10:37PM
obviously immersion wants to skew the results to show people want rumble...then they'd get a crap load of money from sony...big surprise there...
Dp462090 @ Sep 25th 2006 10:42PM
Sad, all of this over an eletric motor with a weight on the end.
Paul Cespedes @ Sep 25th 2006 10:44PM
I don't really see how the rumble feature adds to the game. The only thing it accurately conveys is going over a rumble strip in a driving game, or going up or down in an elevator. Otherwise, I think the rumble feature is way over-rated. I play many computer games with a mouse and a keyboard. No rumble feature, yet I still love the games. I usually turn the rumble feature off if the option is available.
braulio @ Sep 25th 2006 10:46PM
Rumble adds a lot to games of every kind, shooters,sports,adventure, I can't imagine playing my favorite games without this feature that I've gotten so used to with my ps2,let's hope they fix this issue, for all of us.
CRANK @ Sep 25th 2006 10:49PM
Can't a THIRD PARTY create a SONY tilt axis controller with rumble? Third Partys - especially those in China have no quams about breaking intellectual copyrights so I definately see a rumble PS3 controller in the near future. LOOK HOW MANY THEY'VE CREATED OVER THE PLAYSTATION LEGACY!
Rivendale @ Sep 25th 2006 10:55PM
"...while only 8% care about motion / tilt sensing (sorry, Nintendo)."
You're way off base with this comment... Only 8% care about motion/tilt sensing in the PS3. Why is that? Because there will be no games that are designed to use the much-worse-than-Wii tilt sensor. Wii games are designed ground up to work with motion sensing; the PS3 is going to have a couple games with crappy tilt-sensing tacked on last second...
Quite a big difference
Ran @ Sep 25th 2006 11:01PM
CRANK as much as I like your ethusiasm about Chinese companies making a rumble controller, I don't appreciate the fact you say that China has no qualms about breaking copyrights, as on the contrary, the respect for intellectual property is very much reinforced critically there.
By the way, it's not called disrespecting intellectual property, its called cloning. We do it here in the US as well.
Chris @ Sep 25th 2006 11:04PM
Is it the fact that they don't want to pay Immersion? Or is it that the rumble feature interferes with the motion sensing (I imagine it would...). I don't know, I'm not a doctor.
But thank god Rivendale is here to set us straight about systems he's neither seen, played or experienced.
ECM @ Sep 25th 2006 11:24PM
"But thank god Rivendale is here to set us straight about systems he's neither seen, played or experienced."
Well, if it makes you feel better, I've played both and he's right. All better now?
P.S. If rumble interferes with motion control, someone better tell Nintendo-they, magically I guess, managed to include both.
Tony @ Sep 25th 2006 11:10PM
Don't get me wrong, I have no reason to stick up for Sony or the PS3, but I'm going to play devil's advocate here. This article argues against its point before it actually gets to its point. It clearly states that 74% of those polled were not even aware that the controller did not have rumble capabilities. Only after it states that fact, does it go on to suggest that people will be less likely to buy the PS3 because of the lack of the rumble capability. So *my* point is this: how will people use that as a reason to not buy a PS3 if they are not privy to that reason? There's no logical flow here.
Marc @ Sep 25th 2006 11:22PM
I've given up. Got myself an XBOX 360. Couldn't wait any longer. And the news just gets better - I am enjoying wireless rumble, and the games will continue to be half the price of those for the PS3. The money I save on games (and extra cars for GT4) can go into HD DVD and I'm a happy bunny. Sony - you lose!
Will @ Sep 25th 2006 11:33PM
Crank, it's all well and good putting a rumble function into a controller, but if the game doesn't tell the controller to rumble, nothing will happen. Obviously that's hardly a technical answer, but true.
The games would have to be programmed with rumble in mind for a rumble to work (having a rumble pak in an N64 conroller didn't make a difference if you were playing SM64 for example), and I would guess that developers won't assume that every PS3 owner has a 3rd party controller. They could if they really wanted to, but with dev costs already being high, would they bother?
The main reason that the majority of games today rumble is that rumble comes as standard, and console gamers are used to that. And of course it adds an extra layer of immersion in the game, though how much varies on the genre. Some games rumble more than others.
Just my $0.02.
@Chris: I'm pretty sure Engadget reported some time ago that Immersion stated that the PS3 could have its SIXAXIS and its rumble too, if Sony were willing to co-operate (and pay them the money they owe them).
@ECM: Nintendo is doing tilt differently to Sony. If you notice, Ninty has a sensor bar, Sony doesn't. Sony claims that their way of doing things has these effects:
a) Better than a sensor bar (they would say that)
b) That they can't include rumble without disturbing the tilt.
As I said, Immersion said that b) was a solvable problem, and Nintendo's use of a sensor bar also gives them the ability to add pointing to games (ala Twilight Princess for the bow, and most of what I've seen of Super Mario Galaxy, and Elebits, etc). Early adopters will be sure to let us know how Sony's method turns out.
Bill @ Sep 26th 2006 3:16PM
@Will:
I know you're naught but the messenger, but the tilt==no rumble thing is crap. Rumble could (with clever coding) *add* to the tilt: the screen might shake to begin with, incorporate that with the tilt. Most games already shake when the character is shot/hit etc. Furthermore, the tilt could also make for interesting puzzle games with the rumble.
Robotron @ Sep 25th 2006 11:47PM
pardon my French but
F#&k Immersion!
I am tired of these companies that buy patents and then go looking for lawsuits.
If Immersion has it's way our controller prices will have an extra 20% hidden Immersion tax on them.
They are a parasite and they are feeding on gamers.
shawn.lomas @ Sep 26th 2006 1:39AM
Well Robotron, considering they DEVELOPED the technology... they have the rights on it. While your at it... go ahead and bitch about some other patent you use every day and whine about how they are milking you the consumer. How rude of them....
Igor @ Sep 26th 2006 6:52AM
robotron they didnt patent the "rumble" feature, but the TECHNIQUE. so if u copy it u get sued (like sony), but if u build ur own to come up with same result u dont (nintendo)
and about rumble: wtf? i didnt know ppl actually liked this thing besides racing games. it actually disturbes me
Jake Fischground @ Sep 25th 2006 11:57PM
I ran out of batery on my xbox 360 controller and it stopped vibrating 1st and I could not play at all!! The vibration is really helpfull and makes the game much more fun!!
Will @ Sep 26th 2006 12:01AM
Robotron, this may interest you. Or it might not, what do I know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_troll#Alleged_patent_trolls
If patent law worldwide was the same as the UK's system, we wouldn't have a problem in this case, as the above link shows. However, that isn't the case, so stuff like this happens. A lot.
Tom @ Sep 26th 2006 12:10AM
Thats Sony being greedy as usual and never wanting to pay any other company for the technology there using. Same thing with adding the Blew-Ray format not wanting HD DVD to get all the money. Same thing with the codecs using old MPEG2 and not wanting to pay the royalities for the better VC-1 codec
Ty @ Sep 26th 2006 12:17AM
I used that feature a couple of times and all it does it make my hand hurt. First thing I do when I play new games is turn the rumbling feature off, I can't stand it so I won't miss it at all.
Bob @ Sep 26th 2006 12:33AM
Hear hear!
Rumble rocks on driving games!
Alex @ Sep 26th 2006 12:48AM
For what it's worth, Sony did show some PS3 games with tilt as part of the gameplay (and not as an add-on) at TGS.
Ferny @ Sep 26th 2006 12:51AM
ha ha ha there is a link to the article you are reading. (oxymoron)
anyway I remember taking that survey. all the questions on the survey only had negative possible answers like:
would you buy a game on the xbox if the ps2 version didn't have rumble but the xbox did.
yes
don't know / no answer
only if I only had a ps2
somewhere along thoes line. you get the point.
ps2 @ Sep 26th 2006 1:05AM
no on asked me. i never understood how some little vibra in a controller was supposed to enhance the gaming experience. could care less. when there was an option to, i remember always turning it off. it's just a cheap gimmick.
Mark @ Sep 26th 2006 1:12AM
Rumble Shumble. When the rumble pack first came out way back in star fox days it was a neat concept but it did not change the face of gaming. I love my Wavebird controllers and guess what? No freaking rumble. On my 360 I turn the rumble feature off. Its annoying and stupid and does nothing to enhance my gameplay. Watching my guy get shot on the screen and having it translated into slight rumbling in my hand is just retarded. Don't care about the PS3 and don't really care about their 9 year old design for their controllers. Thanks
HKV @ Sep 26th 2006 1:20AM
How can people make up their minds? How many of them have tried the SIXAXIS? People are just conservative, they actualy dont even know what they might get instead. Look at it this way: if you buy a small car, you get to park it much nicer in the city, a limo is always much harder to park but then again perhaps more fun to ride...
Give the controller a chance, before killing it of!
imageburn13 @ Sep 26th 2006 1:26AM
I never thought rumble to be a cheap feature. In my opinion, it really adds weight to a game. It was a nice addition to a game experience. Its an integral part of the two games I play, GTA and GT4. Sony really needs to get it back in, to create the whole immersion. They are going awol with display , sound and funtionality, but without rumble, there's no tactile. So thats a missed opportunity. I personally dont care about holding the controller out in front of me doing tilt excercises for a 1/2 hour until my arms go numb, so in that regard the poll was accurate. Plus, in GT4, where in the high level races complete accuracy is essential, i dont see tilt serving any purpose. Unless its pinpoint accurate, which i highly doubt. (sony prove me wrong!) Now, rumble, that is perfectly accurate and helps immerse. It will really be missed, I really hope they sort this out. But really, with November 1 and 1/2 months away, arent the SIXAXISES (?) already rolling off the assembly line?
jevaun @ Sep 26th 2006 1:28AM
Oh Sony, Sony, Sony...
Matt @ Sep 26th 2006 2:04AM
"A hair over 1,000 isn't exactly polling. I can't imagine the lack of a vibrating controller would actually cause people not to buy a system."
Actually, 1000 people is a very good sample size. Too bad you've never taken a statistics class.
Radd @ Sep 26th 2006 7:12AM
Won't miss rumble in the least. In last generation, I bought all three systems over time and don't use rumble on any of them. In fact... I don't know a single person out of more than a dozen console gamers that uses the feature at all.
Until this little "debate" popped up centering around Sony's decision to remove it... I had almost assumed no one cared. I still think it's half manufactured in the media. In all the years that rumble has been around I have never once seen a game review where the reviewer talked about how the "rumble was dead on" or something. If no one cared enough about it to include it as a critical part of the game review (in which every other aspect of the experience is always covered), then I don't see why gaming journalists are suddenly up in arms about its removal.
From a personal side, I simply don't find that having my "hands vibrate" is immersive... just annoying. Plus, it reduces battery life significantly on my wireless controllers (Logitech). It was cute at first, sure, but it's hardly the beginning and end of the gaming experience... more like a "nice try".
Take a driving game. Go out driving. Come back. Now drive on a console game and tell me again that "hand shake" is "immersive". I suppose if you can get past the start where it's just distracting to the point where you are so used to it that you just expect it... THEN it might be "slightly" more immersive than not having it there.
Immersive would be feeling gravitational force, feeling wind rush past you, smelling rubber, a full 360 degree visual and auditory experience, and rumble that shakes your whole body.
Then again... I game on PC too. Having rumble on my PC gaming would be like trying to play an FPS and having my mouse try to get out of my hands.
Camperton @ Sep 26th 2006 7:24AM
I was holding out for the PS3, but when I found out about loss of rumble and simoultaneous release of GTA on both platforms I bought a 360 the next day.
Igor @ Sep 26th 2006 7:48AM
so if there still was rumble u wouldnt have bought xbox?
gozer @ Sep 26th 2006 9:29AM
i love my wavebird, but really wish it had a rumble feature. i still use it exclusively but it's annoying to not have it.
Jason @ Sep 26th 2006 9:40AM
I agree. It's nice to have the option of rumble and it does offer some enjoyment when used correctly, not at every opportunity. Zelda's Windwaker is a good example of effective use.
Evan @ Sep 26th 2006 9:57AM
Sony's despicable handling of Immersion's patent adds fuel to fires Sony created by forcing BluRay onto consumers, lying about features (where's my dual HDMI and 3 Gigabit Ethernet ports?), belittling Europe (Sony's "worldwide" is only Japan and U.S.), and numerous arrogant PR comments. Sony has become thought of as more evil than Microsoft!
Esat @ Sep 26th 2006 10:44AM
I tried playing halo2 without rumble. It was impossible. By the time I realised I was getting shot it was too late. It NEEDS rumble. For FPS games more than any, but its still a nice feature.
Nate @ Sep 26th 2006 12:14PM
Seriously games got on before without rumble, it really ends up being a gimmick in most games (RPG's especially), and you got by without it before, and it'll be no big loss. Maybe in driving games it works really well, after all you can see directly beneath you so it's a good indication of pavement, though I'm not too big on race games. But it's hardly essential in FPS, after all if it really were, then that little game called Half-Life could hardly have taken game of the year, right? Also in Halo, a quarter of your screen turns red when you're hit, it's rather difficult to not notice, not to mention it also tells you from which direction you're being hit, unlike the rumbling.
So really runble isn't a vital part of the gaming experience, and, if done right I see motion sensing to be a more 'immersive' mechanic. And either way the fact that it actually works as an input method, allows it to be much more versitle than rumble.
Wolfticket @ Sep 26th 2006 10:44AM
Its would seem rumble feature is not just a cheap gimmick, it's a damn expensive one.
I for one long for the good old days when my MS Sidewinder Joystick would try to rip my arm off when I used a machine gun. What ever happened to proper force feedback?
Pencil $havings @ Sep 26th 2006 10:54AM
I did a poll of 1000 people, and 95% of them liked wearing shoes, 100% of them liked breathing. huh? what's that? there's shit on my shoe! that's 100% annoying.
tekdemon @ Sep 26th 2006 11:37AM
eh...whatever... While rumble would be nice to have, most PC games don't rumble and that hasn't stopped me from enjoying them, lol. I remember when force feedback controllers first came out and I wanted one so bad, except the only games that implemented this were racing and flight sim games. And umm...well that was about it. I admit that I loved the feel for those particular games (but couldn't justify the cost back then), but honestly my favorite games were still the ones that were immersive because they were well designed, not because of force feedback.
So, while it would be nice to have rumble as an option, so long as sony has quality titles coming out for the PS3 it won't really affect sales. If the real killer app games are on PS3 you'd have to be crazy to not play them just because they don't have rumble.
Come to think of it, why doesn't sony just go all out with some kinda crazy force feedback controller? Way more advanced than rumble and it'd probably be able to strike a better deal on those patents than this $90 million thing. No offense but a weight on the end of a motor is not an implementation that's worth $90 million.
CMfly @ Sep 26th 2006 12:14PM
Am I the only person who turns off the rumble in games? It gets pretty freakin annoying like in tiger woods golf when you are trying to putt....
MuchoMore @ Sep 26th 2006 12:29PM
I think the rumble function in a game like Gran Turismo helps you get a feel for the (simulated) road and general driving conditions much like a steering wheel would in a real car.
Daniel @ Sep 26th 2006 1:40PM
>> ...are you going to shell out some dough just like Microsoft and Nintendo did.
For the record, Nintendo never paid anyone for its rumble technology. They patented their own methods back in the mid 90's and were first to bring the tech to market with Star Fox 64 and the Rumble Pak peripheral that plugged into the controller. Microsoft and Sony were sued by Immersion. Nintendo wasn't.
gaz @ Sep 27th 2006 6:49AM
There are thousands of parts that went into the rumble feature. Sony used hundreds that were patened by Immersion. Nintendo may have created their own rumble but some of the parts Nintendo used to create their rumble was patened by Immersion. Why do think there is no rumble in the Wavebird? Immersion VP was asked why Nintendo nether got sued. Immersion VP said that Immersion let Nintendo of the hook as long as Nintendo didn't include the rumble technlolgy in the Wavebird. Nintendo now pays licensing fees to Immersion to include rumble feature in the Wii-mote. So does Microsoft for 360.
I can't imagine tryig to create your own rumble without at least using some parts that have been licensed by Immersion. I bet Immersion patened the word 'Rumble' That probably answers the question of the previous poster saying why can't Sony make there own Rumble.
Its like someone having the patent on screws, it would be pretty hard to make a unit without the need of screws.
docrmc @ Sep 26th 2006 2:05PM
At least we have consistency the commentary is as skewed as the poll. Immersion asked "all the right questions" to enforce the argument which it puts forth, and, frankly, so does every other business out there- why are we surprised at this? And while a sample size of 10 would be clearly egregious, a sample size of 1000 people is adequate (and yes, I aced stats & prob), but moreso if the population size is not several times several of the sample size.
The first statistic(s) provided should have been, how many gamers require, like/simply like, dislike - or shades thereof - the rumble experience. From the opinions already stated in this thread, and from simple common sense, we'd realize that not everyone does. By extrapolation, by sales volumes, and by same said common sense, some do like it! So statements like "why would anyone like rumble" don't help anyone's argument. (does help me to know whether to bother reading the rest of your opinion, though, so thanks for saving me some time.) From that point on we can start talking about the sort of things Immersion questioned, but with a little more breadth.
Tony, 74% of people not knowing about the loss of rumble at this stage does not mean that the fact is insignificant. It might just mean that the 74% are a _mixture_ of dont bother to platform-nitpick before release and just dont care. Thats not an incredible expectation.
Here, now, let me make an admission- I have only owned Playstation consoles. Why? I love (good) choice, and I just get more of it with that (line of) console. That said, I am not explicitly loyal to PS, and not above calling Sony (or anyone) on their crap. In my love of choice, I will go where the best playing experience is. So if I prefer Madden on X360, feel like reliving Goldeneye (on slappers) for N64, or battling with LeChuck on my PC, thats where Ill be. But when it comes to my PS games, truth be told, most are heavy on the rumble. Yes, it is quite possible to find rumble immersive. And this is not a blanket opinion of rumble- what might be great for NFS:U, may not be great for, say, Bandicoot, i.e. I may one to feel the gravel as I slide around a corner, but feeling a boulder chase me down might be a little unnerving (and annoying if that boulder should happen to run me over). Why would feeling the rumble be immersive to me in NFS:U? Well, Radd, this chick loves to drive around as often as she can, and not particularly slowly mind you, and loves to feel the road beneath the tires- the less smooth the better. Yup, some of us like that sort of thing, so feel free not to speak for that number.
For some people, when they hit the stores (whenever Sony decided to finally release the PS3/finalize a version of PS3 for wide release), and they ask, whats in that box worth the notebook-value dollars for which Sony is asking, they might be a little disappointed. _I_ might be, if I were one inclined to rush out and by anything. This is why I think Sony has made a little misstep. But in a series of other, larger missteps, I am not sure how deciding a factor this will be. (Immersion, of course, would postulate that it is.) I believe this is a misstep because of other articles Ive read, in my pre-release nitpicking extravaganza. Sony remains floating due to PS, and for PS, it is losing and will lose on hardware. How significant this loss will be, I leave up in the air, but they know this, and have always known that they do and will. Statistics have said that the software may account for up to of revenue. (Feel free to correct that.) Wouldnt it be interesting to know, what percentage of those games use rumble, and how heavily integrated that rumble is? Given the success of titles like NFS:U, and Formula 1, and so forth seeing that racing titles are most likely to use rumble, mightnt it be a good idea not to lose that functionality? Check out the 8 titles officially listed for PS3 on us.playstation.com and determine how many would have made use of rumble for their PS2 counterparts? Now theres a statistic that I find interesting! Yes, its up to the game designers to include, so if they tell Sony thats nice about your tilt, and all, but your competitors titles are getting rumble, another revision may be in the offing. Immersions real problem just might be that the pressure theyre applying is in the wrong place.
For those with some patience - read: ones who know how Sony will be revising and revising for sometime even after it hits stores, the ones who like Xmas price cuts they will wait for some third-party innovation. I waited how long for them to work out light gun issues? I think I can wait for a while for someone to shake things up.
jason @ Sep 26th 2006 3:03PM
basically everyone who said get over no rumble is a Sony fan boy.
at least half the people who were upset about fit into one of three categories:
1. Xbox fanboy
2. Nintendo fanboy
3. Sony haters
Everyone get over it, the best way to show what you feel is with what you purchase. If Sony's sales aren't high they may not even notice it's due to the lack of feedback in the controller, could be price, low product volume, lack of promised features, oddly shaped box, etc.
Steve @ Sep 26th 2006 4:02PM
The wavebird was one hell on a controller for the Gamecube and there was no rumble to be found. Screw rumble, if its there great. If not, who really cares........
Tyler @ Sep 26th 2006 4:48PM
why donbt they get it usually when one companies are sued by others they tend to shy away from working with them