So you just paid $800 for your brand new
Series3 TiVo ($1,000 if you
transferred your lifetime subscription), waited patiently as the morons from the cable company tried to get their heads around installing
CableCARDs in a non-TV device, and finally sat down on your couch to begin recording and commercial skipping all that great HD programming -- just to find out that your damn
TiVo remote doesn't work! As many home theater aficionados know (first-hand, unfortunately), plasma TVs emit a significant amount of EMI and RFI signals from their surfaces that can confuse nearby IR sensors and render them useless, especially if your home theater gear juts out in front of the display. Well this problem has been happening in spades to new Series3 owners, as the box's IR receiver seems especially sensitive to other frequencies, so much so that they often need to press a button 10 to 15 times for a command to actually register. TiVo seems to be aware of the issue, but has not yet offered a solution, which is why the good folks who frequent the TiVo Community forum have put their heads together and come up with several effective workarounds. The most ghetto of these fixes involves attaching a tiny opaque "hood" around the box's sensor window, so that plasma interference can't go through but line-of-sight remote commands are still received. Since you probably don't want an ugly piece of cardboard hanging off of your beautiful $800 device, forum user "lightspeed" has come up with a slightly more difficult but much more aesthetically pleasing alternative: after carefully disassembling your Series3, you simply need to attach 6 to 8 small squares of GLAD Press 'n Seal to the inside of the IR window on the front face plate, which will serve to shield the sensor from the bad signals but let the good ones get through. Good job, intrepid TiVo devotees, but what we wanna know is: out of all the folks who beta tested this product, was there not even one of them who used it with a plasma and could have caught this problem much sooner? TiVo: makes a great product, but needs a little help in the
e-commerce and quality assurance departments.
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posted September 26th 2006 11:43AM
Excellent article about TiVo Series3 + plasma TV = big problems.
http://www.1-satellite-tv-facts.com
It's not entirely clear to me how EMI and RFI affect an IR sensor. Maybe one of the brilliant technologists at Engadget could enlighten me?
I have this same fear about the Nintendo Wii. I wonder if it's sensor bar that is supposed to go under or above the TV is going to get interference from plasma TVs.
This sounds more like a Plasma TV issue than a Tivo issue. If this is a known problem with other devices, why haven't the Plasma TV manufacturers done more to curb it? If nothing can be done, then the TVs themselves ought to come with some sort of warning about this, shouldn't they?
Don't get me wrong, its fair to rap on poor products, but in this case I dont think it has anything to do with Tivo.
EMI? RFI? Those are Electro-Magnetic and Radio Frequency interference. Neither of which will affect IR in the slightest.
What Plasma does do, like the sun, is give off light in the infrared spectrum, invisible to the human eye but obviously not to IR receivers.
Lenses can be tuned to filter out beams at certain frequencies and you'll see a lot of products for IR routing and bouncing advertised as Plasma-Friendly or Plasma-Safe.
This problem is hardly unique to the TiVo, but given its HD market, it's something that should have been tested a lot more thoroughly.
Whoa! Plasma interference! That's, like, state of the art trouble!
IR (infrared) remote signals are affected by lots of IR (infrared) interference.
The likely problems? The Tivo's IR sensor window is probably very omnidirectional. They probably put weak IR emitters (or a single emitter) in the remote.
RF has nothing to do with this, unless the remote communicates via RF.
I agree that the article seems to have missed the point technically. While, as the article suggests, it may be possible for the IR sensor on the TIVO to be sensitive to other frequencies, it is more likely that the immense heat given off by the PDP (heat = IR) is a major source of IR noise. Even more telling is the fact that the Glad wrap is successful in solving the problem - it's acting as an IR filter, and does not filter radio frequencies.
I have the S3 Tivo and a Panasonic plasma and have no issues with the remote. Now getting Comcast to install the cablecards correctly is another issue...
I also have the S3 Tivo and a Panasonic plasma and don't have any issues with the TiVo or Harmony remotes. Comcast is coming next week to install the cablecards, so only time will tell there.
So... Plasma TV's spit out all kinds of interference, fine (although if true I'm surprised they got an FCC rating), but would someone at Engadget put the crack pipe down for a min and tell me how this is Tivo's fault?
Thank you, stan lee, Bruno Fernandes, and geekpdx. You all have brains. Even the forum links Engadget provides conclude the problem is that plasma screens emit IR interference; this has absolutely nothing to do with RFI. They're supposed to teach such basic concepts in high school. No wonder they say the school system is failing.
Works For Me
I own 2 HD Tivos and 2 Different plasma TVs and I haven't experienced any issues with the remote
One is a Sony 42 inch and one is a Zenith 60 inch.
Maybe this issue is just with specific Plasma Tvs.
I have two Panasonic plasma TVs, a Series-3 Tivo, as well as a Series-1 Tivo, and have never experienced any problems with the remote control. Plasma TVs do emit a significant amount of IR energy, but perhaps certain models are worse than others, or maybe some people have arranged their Tivos too close/in an orientation that subjects them to too much of that IR energy.
You should all be thankful that Engadget makes mistakes on their blogs... if they didn't, this comment section would be completely useless (We all know the comment section doesn't exist for the "witty" banter on PS3 and Blu-Ray posts.) and we would all be deprived of the endless corrective/collective wisdom of the flawless Engadget readership. ;-)
My list of why I hate plasma TVs continues to grow. It's such a gateway technology. I can't see any market for plasma with LCD prices dropping, and new techs like OLED, SED, etc coming down the line. The drawbacks of plasma is such a long list, I can't see it as surviving it's downfalls since it has nothing it does better than any other tech, most especially, price.
I read the post over at tivocommunity.com. Here is the link. The fix was interesting since I am having the same issue.
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317405
Here is the link to the pictures that lightrunner (not lightspeed) took while doing the fix.
http://public.fotki.com/lightrunner/tivo_remote_fix/
Dude, there is very simple fix to this problem. It is very simple to block (defuse) EMI and other interferences... Just frop a fly screen on top of the tivo or other equipment and it will create a protected erea over you equipment. Basic physic really...
Later,
deijmaster
plasm-owned!
i resent that morons from the cable company comment... try to get joe blow to figure out how to use a TIVO much less provision a shakey technology (cable cards) with a new one (dual tuner tivo)
Joe Blow might have a problem figuring out a TiVo, but I know a lot of 4 year olds that can work the things. Granted, I doubt they could install a Cablecard. . .
Maybe not morons, and it's not their fault, but they've been out to my place 4 times about these same issues. Cable is primitive and is based on a telecom model: send sweaty guys in trucks out to plug things in. Give people huge crappy boxes with horrible interfaces. Every time they came I was the one navigating all the screens and devices. Man I miss DirectTV. At least I have TiVo (with a defective remote - and yes it's their fault.)
What you do is get a Control4 Home theater controller for roughly $599 and it will control all your components as well as lighting, HVAC, security, etc if you should so want to expand your system
And from my understanding the Tivo 3 won't even work with satelite! Since it supported OTA HD I was thinking of getting it too.
So does this explain why my wireless keyboard doesnt work?
Why the hell in this day and age can't people create radio remotes, a la xbox 360 controller kind of thing. I am fed up of IR. I want to change channel through walls! And yes, as it stands, PDA's can change channel like a universal remote, why can't convergence mean you can do it over a wireless network?
Rant over.
So some people asked why this is TiVo's fault. I'll suppose an answer to that. It's a well-known fact that Plasma sets have always put out IR garbage. Some put out more than others.
No, a mesh or bug screen on top of the TiVo (a poor man's faraday cage?) will not help. This has nothing to do with interference to the box (EMI and RFI already knocked down in the first few posts).
It's up to TiVo, coming out with a new product to make sure it is interoperable with other product on the market. A more narrow plastic filter in front of the IR sensor in the TiVo would help. As mentioned by someone else, so would strong IR emitting from the TiVo remote (likely not done to conserve batteries). With a stronger IR signal the receiver can be made less sensitive. But a better IR screen is always the best idea to keep out stray garbage rays.
Anyway, a quality IR repeater can fix this issue.
i wonder if there's actually some creedence to this (but with a slightly different conclusion). i have a jvc receiver that has an RF remote and a sony rear projection tv. i have trouble with the RF remote all the time...
i wonder if there is some sort of interference that projection or plasma/LCD tvs give off that CRTs do not....
FYI... IR, UV, light, whatever are all forms of Electromagnetic radiation seperated only by wavelength, so any form of EM radiation emitted by the TVs close to the IR wavlengths that affects the remote's performance could be thought of as Electromagnetic interference.
Though I admit that the term EMI is usually used to refer to EM radiation created by electrical/electronics circuits and are usually in the RF ranges as opposed to the IR ranges....
Just my $0.02...
PS: Evan u owe me one for the defensive flame bait... ^_^
TiVo has been having lots of issues lately. They still haven't fixed the big problems from the 7.3.1 update for all Series 2 customers, 1 and a half months later.
It appears that TiVo doesn't even bother to beta test their software updates, let alone their new products.
Not to mention the tivo menu burning an image into your screen.
People, I am no expert, but have had a mojor issue with my Harmony remote transmitting through an ir pickup stuck underneath my new (Spring '06) Panasonic plasma. Quite frustrating to have all your equipment 100 feet away in a closet and the thing that is supposed to control them misses keystrokes 8 out of ten times. After reading this forum, I tried the Glad Press 'n Seal fix and, to my surprise, it worked like a charm. I had even hired an A/V tech and he has been wotking on this problem for months with no success. Try this easy fix before doing something more expensive or pulling your hair out. Not sure how it works with TiVo though. Cheers.
Update: my A/V tech finally got "the part" in that he told me would fix my issue. It was called a "sun filter". Consisted of a small plastic disc that was tinted. It had sticky on it and fit over the ir pickup. It didn't work as well as the Glad Press-n-seal so I took it off and redid the Glad wrap fix...it now works perfectly...again.
Guys.. It is NOT the Plasma. The damned remote issues are the same with the screen on or off! some theories to consider:
1-The Tivo IR reciever's center frequency is off (IR could be any where between 800 and 920 nm in wave length.The Tivo remote works well with other equipment.So if that is the case the TIVO IR reciever front end needs to be changed.
2-The IR reciever is placed badly behind the lexan screen or the Lexan dark red pigment is filtering the bulk of IR energy from the Remote.
3- Both of the above.
The reason some of the Kluges discussed works is that they help reflect more IR from the remote towards the IR RX.
Now if Tivo lets us know if that is the case we may be able to change the IR LED in the remote to better match the IR Rx in the Tivo although this may compromise performance when TIVO remote is used to control other equipment.I can not believe that TIVO have not yet owned up to this and offerd a fix.
By the way I love TIVO and that is why I am putting up with this issue on an 800 Dollar piece of consumer Electronics.
The reason I'm posting today is to help someone like myself. And I dont have a TIVO.
When I moved, I ordered Direct TV with 3 regular boxes and 1 dvr. I purchased a 58" plasma after placing my direct tv order but before i purchased the plasma. When the Directtv technician installed it, he put the direct tv box next to the tv. Just like most of you, the remote took 10-20 presses of a button to register. I thought it was the box initially. Today another technician came to upgrade me to HDdvr and they gave me a new box. I now have the same exact problem with the new box. Additionally, I hooked my pc up to the plasma. I have a wireless keyboard I was using with my 17" crt monitor. It was going crazy!! It was virtually useless until i took one of my moving boxes and put it between the tv and the receiver for the keyboard. Then it started working a little better.
SO IT IS THE PLASMA!!! Whether its the emi or rf or OPP, get your components as far away from the tv as you can!!
So why the Tivo behaves the same even when the plasma is off!
why does my receiver(volume control) reacts to the TV remote perfectly with the TV on or off. It's amazing to see so many people going round in circles with magic fixes.
The real shame of it is that no one from Tivo has chimed in and owned up to a IR Receiver mismatch in the TIVO and offer a fix or ask users to send the damn thing back for repair or replacement.
I think the if the plasma's been on for awhile, whatever interference the plasma being on is creating is still there. Kinda like if you rub a balloon back and forth over a wool sweater, although you cant still see the static electricity after you stop rubbing, its still there for awhile as evidenced by the balloon's ability to cling to vertical surfaces.
I tested my theory and used the wireless keyboard to do simple things on my pc that I didnt need visual confirmation based on the sounds my speakers were giving me to know the computer was receiving the commands given it. The wireless keyboard worked perfectly. Even after I turned the tv on it still worked ok for like two minutes. But after that the interference grew and it started acting up. Keep in mind also that my tv is a 58" plasma and probably generates more interference than the average plasma.
I think the if the plasma's been on for awhile, whatever interference the plasma being on is creating is still there. Kinda like if you rub a balloon back and forth over a wool sweater, although you cant still see the static electricity after you stop rubbing, its still there for awhile as evidenced by the balloon's ability to cling to vertical surfaces.
I tested my theory and used the wireless keyboard to do simple things on my pc that I didnt need visual confirmation based on the sounds my speakers were giving me to know the computer was receiving the commands given it. The wireless keyboard worked perfectly. Even after I turned the tv on it still worked ok for like two minutes. But after that the interference grew and it started acting up. Keep in mind also that my tv is a 58" plasma and probably generates more interference than the average plasma.
I have a new 55" plasma and when it is switched on my router/modem cannot connect to the adsl line :-/
How can a tv interfere with a phone line? The modem is upstairs as far away from the plasma as possible and i've disconnected the digital decoders etc from the phone system but as soon as the tv is on all connections with the internet are lost.
OK guys. Problem solved. As suspected an assembly fault in my series 3 was to blame. I opened the TIVO series 3. carefully removed the PCB on the front panel (you need to pull the flex PCB out of it's socket) and lo and behold the IR receptor was bent during the awkward assembly process. So the receptor (IR Receiver) was miss aligned with the hole behind the IR screen.
I aligned this and carefully re assembled. Now the TIVO remote works better than perfect!. one reason that some the kludges above seems to have worked could be due the fact that thew reflected some of the IR signal sideways onto the receiver after a few bounces inside the front panel chamber.
You will need Torx screw drivers. If you are not a good with this sort of thing do not attempt this repair your self. See my pictures at
If any one is intersted I have photos of the problem described above.
http://www1.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=174200290/a=36474142_36474142/fromupload=true/t_=36474142