Creative removing FM recording from players

Oh noes! Creative looks like it's the latest manufacturer to fall prey to the RIAA's war on FM recording. Yeah, we thought this all blew over back in the "Home taping is killing music!" days, but slowly we've been seeing modern recording functionality be disabled, with satellite radio devices being some of the first casualties. Now Creative has released a firmware "update" for its Zen MicroPhoto and Zen Vision:M players, which adds Audible support and other minor fixes to the former, video zooming and language support to the latter, but removes FM recording functionality from both players. No telling where this kind of consumer trampling stops, but for now it looks like another win for the RIAA types.

[Thanks, Doug R.]

Read - Zen Vision:M
Read - Zen MicroPhoto

[disciple83 @ Oct 16th 2006 4:01PM]

I don't see how recording FM radio is an infrignement. It's braodcast over the air for free. They don't broadcast the entire album, and the singles are almost 100% available for download for free anyway.

[Shogan @ Oct 16th 2006 4:03PM]

This is getting ridiculous.

[BatteryAcid @ Oct 16th 2006 4:05PM]

Oh No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who realy cares. Id be focusing on limewire and such. Thats where peoplwe get their music... Just a stupid minor anoyance.

[nightryder21 @ Oct 16th 2006 4:05PM]

This firmware thing is not required right?

[Peter @ Oct 16th 2006 4:06PM]

Wow! Does the EULA for the firmware upgrade say they're taking the feature out, or make the user agree to some even more vague language?

When I bought my MP3 player, FM radio, and having the option to record FM were both part of my buying decision. I would consider the value of my device diminished by a firmware "upgrade" like this, and would be looking for the manufacturer to either allow me to revert to the functionality the way I purchased it, or compensate me (monetarily) for removing a feature that was factored in to my buying decision.

[Gill Bates @ Oct 16th 2006 4:09PM]

The RIAA needs to be made public of who it's members are. This way we can put horse heads in their beds while they sleep.

[Emo @ Oct 16th 2006 4:17PM]

http://www.riaa.com/about/members/default.asp

We can start by refusing to purchase their music.

[narco @ Oct 16th 2006 4:10PM]

I love the "Home taping is killing music" logo. It's on a few sleeves of some of my old punk records.

Fishes,
narco.

[o rly @ Oct 16th 2006 4:14PM]

If I bought a product for "feature X" (and possibly paid more for it compared to other products) only to have that "feature" removed later on, I'd promptly request a refund and maybe some compensation for losing "feature X" for an indeterminate amount of time.

[Kevin @ Oct 16th 2006 4:16PM]

Hey Peter...

Don't upgrade. If you werent so concerned with your "purchasing decision" and getting retribution "monerarily" maybe you would have thought of that.

Besides, Creative isn't doing it to screw you they have to follow this thing called THE LAW, which has higer priority than your ability to record shitty quality tracks from the FM.

[Justin @ Oct 16th 2006 4:47PM]

Which part of the law?

My understanding is, recording is generally legal for timeshifting.

[Paul @ Oct 16th 2006 6:37PM]

Why don't you educate YOURSELF on THE LAW and google "Fair use".

[number40one @ Oct 16th 2006 4:17PM]

Sounds like class-action fodder to me.

[Igor @ Oct 16th 2006 4:19PM]

you are not obligated to upgrade firmware...
ofcourse its freaking ridiculous they are actually removing features :/

[ExcavatE @ Oct 16th 2006 4:27PM]

Jeeeeeeeez ! It's still legal to LISTEN to music right ?

[Shogan @ Oct 16th 2006 4:38PM]

Next month, they will announce that every time you hear a song, you have to pay them.

[Ralph @ Oct 16th 2006 5:54PM]

For the moment at least... But i'm sure THEY will figure something out, to restrict that as well!

[Joe Chapman @ Oct 16th 2006 4:27PM]

RIAA is killing the music industry... (and should be illegal)

[scot @ Oct 16th 2006 4:34PM]

wrong, taping music isnt killing it, fall out boy, hello good bye, and any rap is killing it.

[c.Lake @ Oct 17th 2006 9:42PM]

Then what are you listing too, John Denver?

[LordZero @ Oct 16th 2006 4:37PM]

bah,i was needing a new dap with fm recorder,and now they do this,seems i will stay a little more time with my nw-hd5h(until the lines of dead pixels start to grow like rabbits,i have 2 for now)

[Zonie @ Oct 21st 2006 5:51PM]

Heck, next thing they will charge you if you THINK about or hum a song, especially if you can hear the original track in your head.

[crescentdavid @ Oct 16th 2006 4:38PM]

Good points: I DID pay extra for the ability to record FM. Maybe it's a news program- maybe it's something live- it doesn't matter. This is a step backwards in terms of consumer rights. Matter of the LAW? Bullshit. It's a matter of the power of the RIAA to threaten lawsuits. Consumers have had the capability of recording FM for over 30 years- does anybody seriously believe this is anything more that the RIAA wanting to expand it's turf and justify it's existence?

This just guarantees greater motivation to do P2P. I pay for online music services, I paid for my Creative player- and now the RIAA retroactively, without my consent, screws me.

[Jane Yakowitz @ Oct 31st 2006 1:45PM]

Advertisement Regarding Your Purchase of Your Zen Vision:M or MicroPhoto MP3 Player

Dear David:

I am a legal intern at the Kick Law Firm. I am currently investigating the recent decision by Creative Labs to remove the FM recording feature from the Zen MicroPhoto and Zen Vision:M mp3 players by use of a firmware update. If you would like to share any information about your experience as a purchaser of one of these gadgets, or if you are interested in pursuing legal action based on the lost value of your mp3 player, please contact me at [e-mail] or [phone].

Thank you,

Jane Yakowitz

[chris @ Oct 16th 2006 4:41PM]

".. you will liten to what we want, when we want, and you will pay."

[Shogan @ Oct 16th 2006 4:41PM]

Fortunately, most of the music I listen to is older stuff I grew up on. I already HAVE that in CD format, and MP3 format. But the move to digital distribution is a BAD idea. Especially with people like the RIAA running things. If I pay for something, it's mine.

[disciple83 @ Oct 16th 2006 4:49PM]

Well, until someone steps up in class-action with the law that says it's ok for us to record FM, me included, no one is gonna get anything accomplished by bitching. I just don't have the funds or the general concern enough to demand it back. Radio where I am is nothing more than a big heaping pile 'o' shit. Why do you think I have a ZVM in the first place? I do think it sucks how we have to now pirate completely free radio signals...

[S.A. @ Oct 16th 2006 4:59PM]

The only thing I occasionally record is the Bob and Tom show, which I dont think is illegal. Why the hell would I make a crappy recording of a song on the radio when I could just download it somewhere.

[v_dogg @ Oct 16th 2006 5:12PM]

I hate the RIAA

[kei @ Oct 16th 2006 5:18PM]

To RIAA:

1) I'm getting sick and tired of paying for a song then I am trapped to certain brand of DAP FOREVER, unless I pay for the same song multiple times;

2) I am annoyed when I can't listen certain CDs using my PC;

3) I am horrified to learn that my computer's securities are comprised buy attempting to play one of those copy protected CD; and

4) I am royally pissed off for losing the right to use a function that built into my gadget, which I can do with things that I bought YEARS ago!

Listen to me, you bunch of good-for-nothing scumbags. You have done nothing other than making our purchases more and more incovenient. You are ripping us off to fatten up your wallet! If that's how you would treat the people who PAY you then I will simply stop paying: by going the worst way (according to you) to get my beloved music. SCREW YOU!

[Goatweed @ Oct 16th 2006 5:19PM]

I saw this a few weeks ago, when I was researching why my Zen Vision:M's clock wouldn't keep the correct time - I saw there was a firmware upgrade but also this same upgrade removed the FM recording function.

I never record from FM but for some weird reason I like having the option - 'just in case'. Fuck the weird clock, I've got a watch & the player works just fine with the shipped firmware, so no updating for me.

Take that RIAA!!!

This really is ridculous, the editing you'd have to do to clean up FM recording is so much more work than just jumping on a torrent to get the track. They're clueless.

[ken @ Oct 16th 2006 5:22PM]

so if you think about it, now someone can sue creative, they were selling a product and advertising it to do something, now it doesn't. I want my $299 back now.

[Alex @ Oct 16th 2006 5:24PM]

Didn't they already take down that firmware update? Engadget is late.

[mr_black @ Oct 16th 2006 5:27PM]

ok. let me get this straight. in an article about copyrights you steal someone elses logo? ironic

http://www.peer99.com/peer99W/swe/shoppen/steg1.asp?hkat=Piratshoppen

[Vilppi @ Oct 17th 2006 2:32PM]

Who stole the what now?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Taping_is_Killing_Music

[TVGenius @ Oct 16th 2006 5:30PM]

o rly said: "If I bought a product for "feature X" (and possibly paid more for it compared to other products) only to have that "feature" removed later on, I'd promptly request a refund and maybe some compensation for losing "feature X" for an indeterminate amount of time."

The problem is that this penalizes the company making the product (Creative, XM, etc) and not the jerks at RIAA that are taking away your ability to use the product legally.

[o rly @ Oct 17th 2006 2:28AM]

TVGenius : "The problem is that this penalizes the company making the product (Creative, XM, etc) and not the jerks at RIAA that are taking away your ability to use the product legally."

I didn't buy RIAA-endorsed mp3 player nor did I buy RIAA-branded satellite radio; I bought "product X" for "feature X," and once they've removed it, they've changed it from "product X" to "product X-feature X == product Zzz" and have effectively done a bait and switch routine, leaving the onus on them (from a consumers standpoint.) How they deal with the RIAA or any other bodies that restrict their creation of a player is with them, not me, as last I checked, I didn't pay the RIAA for the mp3 player.

[Whynot @ Oct 16th 2006 5:34PM]

It's time for the satirical advice of the day! Bringing humor to a new level!

Today, we will see how to get a job at the RIAA, 100% guaranteed!!

- Writing your resume: if you bulied your friends in school to get their lunch money, be sure to mention it, it is definitely in your favor. If you have computer skills, DO NOT speak about open source software or say bye bye to your job interview.

- During the interview: Stay calm, do not panic, the HR director will not eat you. If you just said something wrong, blame it on pirates. Same if you are late. Be professional, let them know about your ideas on how to restrict consumer rights while taking their money. If you found a way to make people pay while not selling them anything, you may land quite fast on a high paid executive position.

- False testimonial from a fake RIAA employee:
"I got in RIAA pretty easily. I had a concept that they wanted. My idea was, Record companies spend too much because they have to provide the consumers with music, they have to print CDs and encode digitall music. It causes huge losses for the industry every year, damn those pirates! So I thought, "why do they have to give consumers the music if the latters will obviously use it for piracy?". So I came up with a super idea: we just divide the amount in dollars of the losses caused by piracy, and divide it by the number of inhabitants on Earth. Simple! So with monthly losses of three hundred thousand trillions gazillions, consumers own us arround $500,000 per day and per capita. And all of this is done for the poor artists who get spoiled every day by pirates! We just keep 100% of the amount and we give the our sincere sympathy!"

ROFL :P

[Remo William @ Oct 16th 2006 5:59PM]

who really wants to record shitty sounding radio anyway? The audio quality is garbage.

[kevan @ Oct 16th 2006 6:18PM]

Do they not realize they are just screwing themselves? Why would I buy a product that "can't" do that. Why would I buy music that is protected under the product that "can't" do that. Why must I be subject to a "can't do that" life-style?
The way I see it the entertainment industy is slowly eating itself alive.
I personally no longer buy music and I do not own a single MP3 player. After the DRM riddeled CD I bought from best buy last year I was just fed up and said to heck with it. I've saved a lot of money by listening to the radio!

[h0mi @ Oct 16th 2006 6:31PM]

It is not illegal to tape radio broadcasts; this is fair use.

[Michal G @ Oct 16th 2006 6:43PM]

It's as if all people listen to is music on the radio? Ever heard of TALK SHOWS without copyrighted music? RIAA is stepping over the limit. I don't get it, WE ALL HATE THE RIAA? WHY ARE WE BOTHERING WITH THIS CRAP. STOP SUPPORTING THE MUSIC INDUSTRY. It's not hard? Stop wasteing money, it's not like stop breathing.

Have you heard of a case of someone downloading files being sued? No. Get over yourselves.

[Jake @ Oct 16th 2006 6:57PM]

Excavate said: Jeeeeeeeez ! It's still legal to LISTEN to music right ?

Answer: I think so -- as long as you promptly forget it. If you randomly think of the song later and accidentally hum a few bars in your head you are no doubt violating something in the RIAA's view of the world.

Can't record FM? Sorry, but that's nuts.

Oh, and Michael G: yes, the RIAA sues people for downloading all the time. Where have you been?

[fubar @ Oct 16th 2006 7:04PM]

Please, please, PLEASE tell me somebody makes a t-shirt with that exact logo (complete with the "and it's illegal"?).

[Mr. B @ Oct 16th 2006 7:09PM]

It's amazing how the RIAA et. al. are stifling technological innovation. If they'd been around a few thousand years ago, we would still be waiting for fire.

[A Gupta @ Oct 16th 2006 7:10PM]

Alex is right - if you go to the creative site to try and update to this new firmware (for ZV:m) at least, you can't get this one that removes FM recording. However, whichever next firmware is released WILL have the FM recording disabled. It will come with other features, such as quicker battery charges and a quicker interface and more DJ features (like play most highly rated and unrated) but it will take away an integral feature, making it a hard decision to make.

[Juaquin @ Oct 16th 2006 7:11PM]

Wait, so no one cracked down on this during the heyday of FM, but now that it's obsolete, we have to ban it? Has the RIAA become such greedy assholes that they need to protect something so archaic as FM radio?

This is pathetic.

[LordZero @ Oct 16th 2006 7:25PM]

well i do no want to steal the music to anybody,i just want to record the station,so when musics that i don't know plays on the radio,and the guy on the radio says the name of the bands,later when i came home,if i forgot the names, i can check the track,write down all the names of the bands that i liked and try to find more stuff and buy the albuns.
Sorry for my english,anwyay no fm recording sucks,i know very people how will get this firmware,will gonna freak out.

[Jack @ Oct 16th 2006 7:58PM]

I will be the first, and certainly not the last to say it:

F*** the RIAA.

[GigermUnit @ Oct 16th 2006 8:45PM]

Good thing i got my zen nano plus on saturday