Creative removing FM recording from players
By Paul Miller 
posted Oct 16th 2006 3:55PM
posted Oct 16th 2006 3:55PM
Oh noes! Creative looks like it's the latest manufacturer to fall prey to the RIAA's war on FM recording. Yeah, we thought this all blew over back in the "Home taping is killing music!" days, but slowly we've been seeing modern recording functionality be disabled, with satellite radio devices being some of the first casualties. Now Creative has released a firmware "update" for its Zen MicroPhoto and Zen Vision:M players, which adds Audible support and other minor fixes to the former, video zooming and language support to the latter, but removes FM recording functionality from both players. No telling where this kind of consumer trampling stops, but for now it looks like another win for the RIAA types.[Thanks, Doug R.]
Read - Zen Vision:M
Read - Zen MicroPhoto
I don't see how recording FM radio is an infrignement. It's braodcast over the air for free. They don't broadcast the entire album, and the singles are almost 100% available for download for free anyway.
This is getting ridiculous.
Oh No!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Who realy cares. Id be focusing on limewire and such. Thats where peoplwe get their music... Just a stupid minor anoyance.
This firmware thing is not required right?
Wow! Does the EULA for the firmware upgrade say they're taking the feature out, or make the user agree to some even more vague language?
When I bought my MP3 player, FM radio, and having the option to record FM were both part of my buying decision. I would consider the value of my device diminished by a firmware "upgrade" like this, and would be looking for the manufacturer to either allow me to revert to the functionality the way I purchased it, or compensate me (monetarily) for removing a feature that was factored in to my buying decision.
The RIAA needs to be made public of who it's members are. This way we can put horse heads in their beds while they sleep.
http://www.riaa.com/about/members/default.asp
We can start by refusing to purchase their music.
I love the "Home taping is killing music" logo. It's on a few sleeves of some of my old punk records.
Fishes,
narco.
If I bought a product for "feature X" (and possibly paid more for it compared to other products) only to have that "feature" removed later on, I'd promptly request a refund and maybe some compensation for losing "feature X" for an indeterminate amount of time.
Didn't they already take down that firmware update? Engadget is late.
Hey Peter...
Don't upgrade. If you werent so concerned with your "purchasing decision" and getting retribution "monerarily" maybe you would have thought of that.
Besides, Creative isn't doing it to screw you they have to follow this thing called THE LAW, which has higer priority than your ability to record shitty quality tracks from the FM.
Which part of the law?
My understanding is, recording is generally legal for timeshifting.
Why don't you educate YOURSELF on THE LAW and google "Fair use".
Sounds like class-action fodder to me.
you are not obligated to upgrade firmware...
ofcourse its freaking ridiculous they are actually removing features :/
Do they not realize they are just screwing themselves? Why would I buy a product that "can't" do that. Why would I buy music that is protected under the product that "can't" do that. Why must I be subject to a "can't do that" life-style?
The way I see it the entertainment industy is slowly eating itself alive.
I personally no longer buy music and I do not own a single MP3 player. After the DRM riddeled CD I bought from best buy last year I was just fed up and said to heck with it. I've saved a lot of money by listening to the radio!
Jeeeeeeeez ! It's still legal to LISTEN to music right ?
Next month, they will announce that every time you hear a song, you have to pay them.
For the moment at least... But i'm sure THEY will figure something out, to restrict that as well!
RIAA is killing the music industry... (and should be illegal)
wrong, taping music isnt killing it, fall out boy, hello good bye, and any rap is killing it.
Then what are you listing too, John Denver?
Good points: I DID pay extra for the ability to record FM. Maybe it's a news program- maybe it's something live- it doesn't matter. This is a step backwards in terms of consumer rights. Matter of the LAW? Bullshit. It's a matter of the power of the RIAA to threaten lawsuits. Consumers have had the capability of recording FM for over 30 years- does anybody seriously believe this is anything more that the RIAA wanting to expand it's turf and justify it's existence?
This just guarantees greater motivation to do P2P. I pay for online music services, I paid for my Creative player- and now the RIAA retroactively, without my consent, screws me.
Advertisement Regarding Your Purchase of Your Zen Vision:M or MicroPhoto MP3 Player
Dear David:
I am a legal intern at the Kick Law Firm. I am currently investigating the recent decision by Creative Labs to remove the FM recording feature from the Zen MicroPhoto and Zen Vision:M mp3 players by use of a firmware update. If you would like to share any information about your experience as a purchaser of one of these gadgets, or if you are interested in pursuing legal action based on the lost value of your mp3 player, please contact me at jane@kicklawfirm.com or (213)624-1588.
Thank you,
Jane Yakowitz
bah,i was needing a new dap with fm recorder,and now they do this,seems i will stay a little more time with my nw-hd5h(until the lines of dead pixels start to grow like rabbits,i have 2 for now)
Heck, next thing they will charge you if you THINK about or hum a song, especially if you can hear the original track in your head.
".. you will liten to what we want, when we want, and you will pay."
Fortunately, most of the music I listen to is older stuff I grew up on. I already HAVE that in CD format, and MP3 format. But the move to digital distribution is a BAD idea. Especially with people like the RIAA running things. If I pay for something, it's mine.
It is very legal to record anything off the open airwaves for your personal use. It's never been a question.
What about recording talk-shows and non-RIAA content? That is still legal too!
What gives? This move makes absolutely no sense. Someone please sue these F-ers!
Well, until someone steps up in class-action with the law that says it's ok for us to record FM, me included, no one is gonna get anything accomplished by bitching. I just don't have the funds or the general concern enough to demand it back. Radio where I am is nothing more than a big heaping pile 'o' shit. Why do you think I have a ZVM in the first place? I do think it sucks how we have to now pirate completely free radio signals...
The only thing I occasionally record is the Bob and Tom show, which I dont think is illegal. Why the hell would I make a crappy recording of a song on the radio when I could just download it somewhere.
I hate the RIAA
I saw this a few weeks ago, when I was researching why my Zen Vision:M's clock wouldn't keep the correct time - I saw there was a firmware upgrade but also this same upgrade removed the FM recording function.
I never record from FM but for some weird reason I like having the option - 'just in case'. Fuck the weird clock, I've got a watch & the player works just fine with the shipped firmware, so no updating for me.
Take that RIAA!!!
This really is ridculous, the editing you'd have to do to clean up FM recording is so much more work than just jumping on a torrent to get the track. They're clueless.
To RIAA:
1) I'm getting sick and tired of paying for a song then I am trapped to certain brand of DAP FOREVER, unless I pay for the same song multiple times;
2) I am annoyed when I can't listen certain CDs using my PC;
3) I am horrified to learn that my computer's securities are comprised buy attempting to play one of those copy protected CD; and
4) I am royally pissed off for losing the right to use a function that built into my gadget, which I can do with things that I bought YEARS ago!
Listen to me, you bunch of good-for-nothing scumbags. You have done nothing other than making our purchases more and more incovenient. You are ripping us off to fatten up your wallet! If that's how you would treat the people who PAY you then I will simply stop paying: by going the worst way (according to you) to get my beloved music. SCREW YOU!
so if you think about it, now someone can sue creative, they were selling a product and advertising it to do something, now it doesn't. I want my $299 back now.
ok. let me get this straight. in an article about copyrights you steal someone elses logo? ironic
http://www.peer99.com/peer99W/swe/shoppen/steg1.asp?hkat=Piratshoppen
Who stole the what now?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Home_Taping_is_Killing_Music
o rly said: "If I bought a product for "feature X" (and possibly paid more for it compared to other products) only to have that "feature" removed later on, I'd promptly request a refund and maybe some compensation for losing "feature X" for an indeterminate amount of time."
The problem is that this penalizes the company making the product (Creative, XM, etc) and not the jerks at RIAA that are taking away your ability to use the product legally.
TVGenius : "The problem is that this penalizes the company making the product (Creative, XM, etc) and not the jerks at RIAA that are taking away your ability to use the product legally."
I didn't buy RIAA-endorsed mp3 player nor did I buy RIAA-branded satellite radio; I bought "product X" for "feature X," and once they've removed it, they've changed it from "product X" to "product X-feature X == product Zzz" and have effectively done a bait and switch routine, leaving the onus on them (from a consumers standpoint.) How they deal with the RIAA or any other bodies that restrict their creation of a player is with them, not me, as last I checked, I didn't pay the RIAA for the mp3 player.
It's time for the satirical advice of the day! Bringing humor to a new level!
Today, we will see how to get a job at the RIAA, 100% guaranteed!!
- Writing your resume: if you bulied your friends in school to get their lunch money, be sure to mention it, it is definitely in your favor. If you have computer skills, DO NOT speak about open source software or say bye bye to your job interview.
- During the interview: Stay calm, do not panic, the HR director will not eat you. If you just said something wrong, blame it on pirates. Same if you are late. Be professional, let them know about your ideas on how to restrict consumer rights while taking their money. If you found a way to make people pay while not selling them anything, you may land quite fast on a high paid executive position.
- False testimonial from a fake RIAA employee:
"I got in RIAA pretty easily. I had a concept that they wanted. My idea was, Record companies spend too much because they have to provide the consumers with music, they have to print CDs and encode digitall music. It causes huge losses for the industry every year, damn those pirates! So I thought, "why do they have to give consumers the music if the latters will obviously use it for piracy?". So I came up with a super idea: we just divide the amount in dollars of the losses caused by piracy, and divide it by the number of inhabitants on Earth. Simple! So with monthly losses of three hundred thousand trillions gazillions, consumers own us arround $500,000 per day and per capita. And all of this is done for the poor artists who get spoiled every day by pirates! We just keep 100% of the amount and we give the our sincere sympathy!"
ROFL :P
who really wants to record shitty sounding radio anyway? The audio quality is garbage.
It is not illegal to tape radio broadcasts; this is fair use.
It's as if all people listen to is music on the radio? Ever heard of TALK SHOWS without copyrighted music? RIAA is stepping over the limit. I don't get it, WE ALL HATE THE RIAA? WHY ARE WE BOTHERING WITH THIS CRAP. STOP SUPPORTING THE MUSIC INDUSTRY. It's not hard? Stop wasteing money, it's not like stop breathing.
Have you heard of a case of someone downloading files being sued? No. Get over yourselves.
Excavate said: Jeeeeeeeez ! It's still legal to LISTEN to music right ?
Answer: I think so -- as long as you promptly forget it. If you randomly think of the song later and accidentally hum a few bars in your head you are no doubt violating something in the RIAA's view of the world.
Can't record FM? Sorry, but that's nuts.
Oh, and Michael G: yes, the RIAA sues people for downloading all the time. Where have you been?
Please, please, PLEASE tell me somebody makes a t-shirt with that exact logo (complete with the "and it's illegal"?).
well i do no want to steal the music to anybody,i just want to record the station,so when musics that i don't know plays on the radio,and the guy on the radio says the name of the bands,later when i came home,if i forgot the names, i can check the track,write down all the names of the bands that i liked and try to find more stuff and buy the albuns.
Sorry for my english,anwyay no fm recording sucks,i know very people how will get this firmware,will gonna freak out.
It's amazing how the RIAA et. al. are stifling technological innovation. If they'd been around a few thousand years ago, we would still be waiting for fire.
Alex is right - if you go to the creative site to try and update to this new firmware (for ZV:m) at least, you can't get this one that removes FM recording. However, whichever next firmware is released WILL have the FM recording disabled. It will come with other features, such as quicker battery charges and a quicker interface and more DJ features (like play most highly rated and unrated) but it will take away an integral feature, making it a hard decision to make.
Wait, so no one cracked down on this during the heyday of FM, but now that it's obsolete, we have to ban it? Has the RIAA become such greedy assholes that they need to protect something so archaic as FM radio?
This is pathetic.
I will be the first, and certainly not the last to say it:
F*** the RIAA.
the cnet asia post says it is firmware version 1.50.02 that strips this feature but, the firmware version up for download on creatives website is 1.41.01, did creative change their minds?
I guess they did, I actually downloaded 1.50 but now they've replaced the download with 1.41
Good thing i got my zen nano plus on saturday
you know there are those times when you listen to a song on the radio and it sticks in your mind all day. Is that now illegal ?
No they retracted the newer firmware because of DRM playback issues with it. This is all found from epiZENter.net. Read up on everything here: http://www.epizenter.net/comment.php?comment.news.207
glad i dont have a creative
The next step is to ban MP3 playback altogether. MP3 files may have been obtained illegally, so the best thing is to remove MP3 playback functionality.
Users are encouraged to use DRM-enabled files, such as protected WMA.
I agree, this is really retarded. But I wasn't planning on recording FM anyways. The last time I recorded FM music with a cassette tape was in the mid to late 80's ; and I don't want to go back in the 80's. Love the music though.
good thing www.cowon.com still makes among the best portable audio and doesn't care about the RIAA.
Who really listens to FM radio anyway? FCC fined FM to death years ago. Satellite is the way to go now.
Fuck the FCC!! ...and RIAA of course!!
I was disappointed that Creative refused to support OGG files, but this... this just sucks. Creative used to be my favorite MP3 player source... I think i'll go with Iriver from now on.
oh no! i can't record FM!! wait.. who records FM?
It's the principle of it Brandon. You are right, no one in their right mind would want to record FM, but the fact is that the device had the functionality, with the new firmware it wont.
I would class action this one for sure if I owned one. We need to teach the equipment manufacturers to stop listening to the RIAA.
RIAA shame on you for strong-arming a company in to a potential class action suit.
Creative's support also sucks. I recently had a problem with a MuVo TX-FM player. I contacted them and after going through a few automated responses via email, finally got the suggestion to try to get the vendor to replace it, because it's usually faster than going through them.
I contacted Amazon and they immediately agreed to refund my entire purchase price since they no longer had that model. I took that money and bought a SanDisk Sansa.
I would not recommend anyone purchase a Creative MP3 player.
In response to someone earlier:
I actually HAVEN'T heard of anyone getting sued for downloading music. What I've heard of is a bunch of people getting sued for SHARING music. Remember that technically, it's not the downloading that's illegal, it is distributing content without the rights to do so.
Man, this is bad stuff. I'm glad that I have a SanDisk (hopefully other companies won't follow suit!). As was said, it is the principle of it.. who ever heard of removing features in a firmware update???
I did want to chime in on a pet peeve. The RIAA and the major labels are not equivilant to "the music industry". If you want to really effect change, don't just pirate the music of the companies being stupid. Instead, support those that are trying to do the right thing.
I shop now at places like eMusic or Magnatune that sell non-DRM mp3s from indie artists. You can preview tracks on myspace or band homepages. There's relatively cheap CDs from places like CDBaby. Some great artists like Brad Sucks even have free music available. I haven't bought any music from a major label in a while now and I don't feel like I'm missing much.
For all you people that are dismissing the argument as "well, who records crappy FM audio anyway?", that's hardly the only reason one might record FM broadcasts.
As a former radio DJ, we routinely recorded our own broadcasts for the purpose of self-improvement, and regularly recorded other stations to see what the other guys were up to. A tool like this would have been a huge boon for us, and would certainly have fallen under the banner of "fair use".
Make no mistake, organized radio is no fan of the RIAA. The RIAA is made up of parasites who are unable to see the forest for the trees.
Is there a list online of other companies who have done similar things (removing one form of functionality or another)? If not, that might be a good thing to start up, so people can start buying from more honest companies, giving all companies monetary incentive to start (or continue, as the case may be) treating their customers with some level of respect.
It's on all their FM recording models, not just the MicroPhoto and Zen M. All models shipping this month from the factory will have the FM recorder disabled.
This won't stop me if I ever wanted to even though I don't atm, I have a creative zen like the photo one but before that was released ;)
Radio? What is this that you speak of?
I only know of getting free music from Napster.
Does anybody know if the Creative AutoUpdate will warn consumers that their FM Radio Recorder will be removed?
Hey, Kevin. Google for "Audio Home Recording Act". Recording off of FM radio is explicitly legal.
Nice troll, though.
You think this is bad, just wait a little while longer and see how you like it. Let me paint a little picture for you.
You and your family get ready on friday night to go out to eat, so as your walking out, you remember that Smallville is on, so you tell your VCR/TIVO to record it while you are out, but wait, what's this, "This show cannot be recorded or time-shifted do to copyright restrictions" pops up. You try everything you can, but nothing works. Then you have an idea, a few minutes later before you lock the door on the way out, you set the volume, and make sure your camcorder is still zoomed in corectly on your $3000 Plasma, and press record, and close the door behind you, quitely. Welcome to the future. Well in the land of the free, anyway.
Bet you wish you hadn't thrown away that old analog Betamax now, don't cha.
I find it intriguing that the RIAA can amass sufficient clout to convince the governments of the world to police file-sharing sites and networks, and to arrest, fine, and even imprison those consumers it deems guilty of 'piracy,' and whose real crime is keeping a few dollars in THEIR pockets instead of in the pockets of overpaid executives and millionare recording artists.
At the same time, governments worldwide claim to lack the resources to fight the continued spread of internet child pornography. As a victim of a childhood sexual assault, I can tell you that the effects are devastating on the children harmed by this. And yet, our governments prefer to expend all their cyber-policing resources investigating file-sharing sites? Hmm.
Respectfully submitted;
Taliesin
My Lost Childhood
Apologies for the double post, forgot to link to my blog ;)
I find it intriguing that the RIAA can amass sufficient clout to
convince the governments of the world to police file-sharing sites
and networks, and to arrest, fine, and even imprison those consumers
it deems guilty of 'piracy,' and whose real crime is keeping a few
dollars in THEIR pockets instead of in the pockets of overpaid
executives and millionare recording artists.At the same time,
governments worldwide claim to lack the resources to fight the
continued spread of internet child pornography. As a victim of a
childhood sexual assault, I can tell you that the effects are
devastating on the children harmed by this. And yet, our governments
prefer to expend all their cyber-policing resources investigating
file-sharing sites? Hmm.
Respectfully submitted;
Taliesin
http://mylostchildhood.blogspot.com
Thank you for the article, I was still in the return window for my Zen Vision:M and was able to return it and get my money back.
I was happy with the reviews and finally felt comfortable enough to actually buy one of these things and this....
Damnit, If I pay for something, it better be there if I use it or not. I was going to use this feature to record stations while traveling. Which doesn't happen often, but it was one of the reasons I bought this model..
i saw this on their website earlier... it is so dumb.
the RIAA is actually stealing from us now by taking away functionality that was advertised and promised with these players!
someone needs to tell them no, and i'm a little suprised Creative wouldn't!
You need this image as well.
http://www.voidstar.com/images/ipodpirate3.png
Someone needs to pirate the firmware creation to give us the improvements and preserve the FM recording. After all, I don't think Creative is happy about this so...get the message out that their techs can make a pirate firmware available elsewhere.
Kind of sucks, of course we don't have to update but then we're missing out possible fixes to our zen vision. Although I hardly use the FM record, when I bought it that was one of the few specs I was looking at that lead me to the decision of buying it or not.
You know I was reading through all this, and there are some good points all around. I think it would be interesting to see if there would or would not be any legal ramifications if Creative Labs were to simply alter the latest firmware file, and post two different choices. In other words, in one column post a "streamlined" firmware file that addresses all of the issues except FM Radio Recording (hopefully radio can be "listened to" legally; the above comments regarding this are really not simply humor), and then in another column post the "full meal deal" firmware. The reason this isn't as remedial as it sounds, is that this happens all the time, especially with "legal" features that some users cannot and would not want to upgrade in their hardware devices, for backwards compatibility, and so that anything "homemade" or configured in certain ways doesn't get "broken". The EULA permits self-configuration of the provided software.
The problem with this is...some of actually use our players at the gym. The TV's are broadcast using a FM modulator and this allows us to watch the game while on the treadmill. When hitting the weights, just switch over to MP3 music. This is personally why I bought a creative player, and don't take my ipod to the gym. It's bad enough we cannot get AM, but no FM either? That's basically eliminates any reason to buy another product over Apple's.