Steve Jobs worried about the Zune? In a word: "No."
By Cyrus Farivar 
posted October 16th 2006 2:15AM
posted October 16th 2006 2:15AM
Any wild guesses as to which big tech exec isn't a fan of the new Zune? If you guessed Steve Jobs, you'd be completely correct; in a recent interview with Newsweek's Steven Levy, Herr Jobs says that he's not at all worried about the Zune. "I've seen the demonstrations on the Internet about how you can find another person using a Zune and give them a song they can play three times. It takes forever. By the time you've gone through all that, the girl's got up and left! You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear. Then you're connected with about two feet of headphone cable," argues His Steveness. You make a good point, Steve, but we've heard you sing this tune before, like when the original Mac didn't have networking capabilities and you basically told people to resort to sneakernet -- of course, eventually Macs were able to connect with one another. So, we'll agree with you that the wireless capabilities on the Zune kinda suck out of the box, but we'll also bet that you're already at work on some wireless action for a future iPod, no matter how hard you might deny it now.
iPod's are like Tommy Hilfiger was back when I was in middle/high school. It's all about the name...the logo was worth twice as much as the actual clothes were. It's ridiculous people! My phone plays video just as well as any stupid iPod and I can play mine on speakerphone so everyone can hear it...amazing... They should start putting mini speakers on these things, screw wireless sending. But anyway, back to iPod vs. Zune. I think Zune will sell alright in version 1, but once version 2 comes around I think it will seriously start to challenge the iPod. And I mean really...if you're trying to pick up girls by getting them to listen to a song on your iPod...get a life
If Steve Jobs is smart, he'll know that Zune is a major competition. Zune can play songs downloaded from iTunes, URGE, Napster, and then SOME.
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hehehehehheheheh.... aw that's so cute... where did you read that little boy?
iPod to me is more like nokia. Remember 3 to 4 years ago when nokia dominated the cellphone market, look at nokia now.
"Excuse me? Every single song on the Zune has to be converted and wrapped in Zune's own DRM system that isn't compatible with Microsoft's PlayforSure system that they've trumpeted so you can buy songs from multiple vendors..."
No, Zune converts nothing and only applies DRM to file files it shares over WiFi.
"and Apple is wrapped up in its DRM? As long as I have MP3's of all my songs, they just play and work... Not on the Zune!"
all your mp3's will "just play and work" on the Zune just like on the iPod and every other player (save for some incredibly stupid Sony products).
For the person sending 30MB files, my songs are typically 3-5MB and 802.11g is plenty fast for that. At any rate it's more interesting than iPod's sharing option (but only if you know someone else who actually owns a Zune).
Steve may claim that no one wants sharing but we've heard that before. He claimed that no one would want to watch video on an iPod and, prior to that, said that color displays weren't important. Don't forget his recent backpedalling on multibutton mice and, if you're old enough to remember, the claim that color monitors were toys and no serious user wanted one. Of course, macs didn't support color at the time just like iPods didn't support color, then video, and now WiFi. What's surprising is that people continue to believe that he's something other than a shameless marketer. He's just selling what he's got and once Apple implements something similar, Steve will claim they either invented it or they were the first to "do it right" and make it "just work".
Does anyone have any reading comprehension anymore? Did Jobs ever say no one wants wireless networking? All he said was that the zune was going to implement it poorly. Of course the iPod will have it down the road, it's just going to be different, and hopefully better.
"Well, it's clear MS users are not smart, if you got 2 Zunes or iPods, you DON"T NEED to share your earbuds, you just plug your headset in your friends iPod, fast, easy no battery draining wifi, instant gratification ... and no greasy earbud of someone else
shees"
wait, what?
We were responding to a guy who I'm sure is your hero who said that, "You're much better off to take one of your earbuds out and put it in her ear." An "MS user" did not come up with idea that we would have to share earbuds, Steve Jobs did. READ, think, then talk. Way to say Steve Jobs isn't smart, I like it.
that's not proof. wow. he talked about himself for 13 minutes at a commencement speech... you do remember he was asked to speak at it.
All I'm saying is that people who claim wifi is better because they don't want the greasy earbuds of someone for listening to each other library are forgetting the simpelst solution. 2 players, 2 sets of earbuds, direct access to the whole library without waiting to send over music, way faster, no battery drain etc ...
Ah well I shouldn't answer in the first please, especially if you think that the guy you are responding to is reading this thread ;-)
First off, as much as I like my iPod and do not plan on leaving iTunes any time soon, I can still get excited over the release of a new gadget and will definitely check it out. But the idea of "sharing" music just sounds stupid. The entire reason why half the people carry around mp3 players is to avoid actual contact with another live person. I can't imagine this feature being used much even if it expands into this "Live Anywhere" social network.
@ primetime4:
Maybe someone took notice of the fact that people are starting to disconnect from the world, using iPods no doubt, at a time when its all about integration, inclusion, and connectivity. Or maybe they all carry around their iPods so they don't have to put up with your reclsuive, antisocial BS. People have one thing they all share, the love of music. You even listen to music, why not make a friend instead of a blowup doll at home? Surely someone else in this world listens to the same death metal/ hate my parents/polka whatever kind of music as you do. I hope for mankind's sake when you do you aren't capable of reproducing, I can't imagine what a combined generation of you would be like. Just because you're a complete deuchebag who doesn't want to ever talk to another living person doesn't mean the rest of us don't. Asshole.
primetime, zune not only allows sharing of music, but pictures as well and other important useful data. And temper is proof enough that apple fanboys are just as stupid as Steve jobs comment about wifi.
After Steve Jobs' talk of "lover's lips" and Steve Ballmer's going on about being 'touched in multiple places' and 'squirting' I think I need a shower more than an MP3 player. Yecch!
Wow guys, so much hate!
Ok so, what he said was what people wanted to hear, I'm sure he's not as offhand as he comes across in the interview!
Apple does have a big lead and I can't see them throwing it away in being cocky.
He does have a good point about the wireless though, it could take a while to send a song. I just picked a song at random from my library 7.9Mb, bye the time it has been wrapped in DRM and sent with all of the interefernce you'd get if you were on a train of something it could be quite a while.
Also, if sharing is what you want (and you have clean ears) there is nothing wrong with shareing headphones!
I was talking to the new guy in class and found we were both Black Sabbath fans, I was listening to something he didn't have so I passed a headphone and we both listened to it. Theres two sides to sharing, we listened to it and then talked afterwards about whatever and we got on really well. If I'd just sent him a song anonymously from across the room we never would have talked, that's what being social is.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
There's no doubt that in the future sharing will be a big thing, but right now its not practical.
I don't think you're looking at it the way MS or many of the people who find the Zune compelling do.
First - speed. This is 802.11g - 54Mbps - over 6.5MBytes/s max rate. Even assuming a 50% efficiency - that's a 7.9MB song in 3 seconds. This is WiFi - it's been around for years. It's what everyone is already using. It's not new or scary or unknown.
Second - once and for all - the Zune does NOT wrapper music in DRM. The receiving Zune marks the music as 'received' along with the date and time of the receipt and how many times it's been played. It's essentially instant.
Third - I don't know about you - but I don't want someone sticking their earbud in my ear unless I really know them. The Zune has TWO sharing modes: fileshare and DJ. The first simply sends a file (and not just a music file) and lets the person listen to the song 3 times in 3 days (the biggest defect in the system). DJ lets up to 4 people listen in on what you're listening to.
Fourth - you cannot share 'anonymously'. When you send a file, the other person has to accept it. Both you and the other person will see each other's names. Are you the kind of person who just accepts random files from strangers? The DJ service isn't anonymous for the DJ - your name is broadcast.
The idea is that this lets friends share their music fast and immediately. Your friend can walk away with their own copy and listen to it when they have time, and listen to it again up to two more times to make sure they like it - on their own schedule.
The DJ feature lets people share their music stream - the kind of music they like as opposed to the single track. No one else has this on an MP3 player. This is new. I can easily see people listening in to collegues' and friends' music (assuming they share it via DJ mode).
And maybe it's just me, but walking up to your Black Sabbath fan friend and saying - hey - I have a track you have to hear I'll DJ it - and he tunes in and listen on their own Zune and he says 'Wow - I want that - can you send it to me...' and voila, it's on his Zune... It's JUST as social (and a lot cleaner) than sharing earbuds.
Or you're showing a friend photos from your vacation and they say - 'Ooo.. I want a copy of that' - and there it is - on their Zune. That's social.
Ok. Let's put the sharing of music aside. Let's say you have a .pdf file of a manual on your player and your friend with a similar player needs that file. Can you share it with your ipod by lending him the earphones? Wifi is not practical huh? Then theres sharing of pictures, there are a lot of hardcore digital photographers out there. Im sure they would find it useful.
1) To the iPod haters out there... you simply come across as hating anything popular. Don't buy it and shut up already.
2) Don't take his interview comments so seriously, he's not telling people to share dirty earbuds, but that he thinks Microsoft's system is flawed and is about as good as sharing earbuds
3) Apple will most likely integrate wireless, but only when then have a fairly fool-proof/goof-proof system.
4) Do people really think Jobs is going to say in an interview: "Oh yes, I've played with the Zune, it's a much better product than our iPod, it has features that we have been too afraid to implement at this point. The Zune will very likely eat away at our market share." Get real.
5) I own neither and iPod or a Zune.
Peter and Ryan have nailed this on the podcast.
Downloading tacks directly off the internet... COOL
Syncing wirelessly with your computer... COOL
Trading limited use, DRM'd files within a closed market of players... NOT SO COOL
Wireless could be a great feature on a PMP, but at this point the wireless on the Zune is pretty lame. Perhaps, Microsoft will upgrade the Zune at some point to do some cool stuff, but I can't see buying it before then.
Huh? Not to start a flame war or anything, but the original Macs DID have built-in networking. We had ten Macs on a LocalTalk (250 kBps!) network back in 1988. No cards no special cables, just plug the adapter into the serial (RS-422) port on the back of any Mac and add it to the twisted-pair network backbone. And the best part? It just worked.
Check your facts engadget
DRM world?...what are you smoking? Like M$ ecology is any less DRM. Burn and rip your CDs. borrow from your friends, do whatever, but get over the whole DRM argument against Apple, it's old and a myth, and has no legs to stand on. Just because someone buys a damn song ron iTunes doesn't mean you can't just strip the DRM off of it and go on your merry way. I do it all the time, 170 Gigs of music so far....
"Huh? Not to start a flame war or anything, but the original Macs DID have built-in networking. We had ten Macs on a LocalTalk (250 kBps!) network back in 1988. No cards no special cables, just plug the adapter into the serial (RS-422) port on the back of any Mac and add it to the twisted-pair network backbone. And the best part? It just worked.
Check your facts engadget "
agreed, the standard of engadget's editorial has been on the decline.
instead of trying (cos you guys fail most of the time) to sound cool in your short editorials, how about add more content and proof read it to ensure accuracy?
take this editorial for example, Jobs made a comment about one of his competitior's products, i dont see why engadget suddenly feels the need to start talk about how the original macs didnt come with wireless.
do your jobs properly, report the facts, and leave the opinions to the readers.
The part of the S. Jobs quote I found funny was his response to the question about whether the ubiquitousness of the iPod would eventually cause it to become "uncool"
Job's answer was "That's like saying you don't want to kiss your lover's lips because everyone has lips. It doesn't make any sense," said Jobs.
What didn't make sense was Job's answer, which essentially translates to "that's like saying that you don't want an iPod because everyone has an MP3 player.
If every MP3 player out there becomes an iPod, and iPods are ubiquitous, as the reporter suggested, then the answer is Thats like saying that you dont want to kiss your lovers lips because everyone else kisses your lovers lips, even that geeky/uncool kid that she made out with last night.
Steve Jobs, always indenial. The fanboys as well.
People forget that people like Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are nothing but CEOs... they dont know how half their product lines work. As CEOs their job is to defend and sell their company... and not be the tech guru.
Apple's success with the ipod comes from the concept of KISS (keep it simple stupid). The ipod needs to be simple becuase consumers will not be able to use those bells and whistles. If the KISS theory is true, then the Zune will fail to sell just like the other ipod competitors that claimed to have better features than the ipod.
So it boils down to this: would you prefer to have a stranger 'stick their bud' in your ear or 'squirt' something at you?
I think I'll stay here in my closet and stare out at the world.
So, Jobs complains about over-engineering does he (wi-fi as opposed to simple earbud sharing)? Is this the same Jobs that wants us to spend about 300 bucks on "iTV", a box that wirelessly plays your iPod content on a tv. No thanks, I'll buy a $5 cable, Steve.
Sounds more like a bad case of sour grapes.
It is only natural that microsoft would make an mp3 player.
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they make business software. it is NOT natural that they make Xbox or this Zune thing...
I just realized that ipod is manufactured by inventec a taiwanese company. Zune is manufactured by Toshiba a well known company. Japan > Taiwan.
Steve is concerned, he is also a CEO and as such, will never publicly admit that a competitors product is superior or even remotely threatening.
Look at all the "CE Oh no he didnt" blogs, these guys defend their products often to the detriment of their own brand, but nonetheless they proudly say "PS3 is too cheap" etc. It's not arrogance it's called "I get paid millions of dollars a year to run this place, although I may be a moron, I am a representative of every product and person here". Yep Im going to say a competitors product is superior.
I personally think the Zune will sell well. Microsoft have the hardware expertise (I just hope Zune 2.0 is a clean sheet of paper design) software expertise and money money money. Wifi doesn't make this a compelling device, the ecosystem does. People are getting an Ipod like experience, the "social" aspect of Zune only works when the market penetration is there, until then wifi isn't so important. Of course when 10m zunes are around wifi certainly becomes an integral part of the design/ecosystem.
I'd like to see both sides flourish, competition will only drive Apple/Microsoft into creating better devices for us.
Oh and does anyone really think Apple isn't working on some amazing upgrade to the ipod line? Touchscreen or whatever it is, it will definitely not be a crap ipod 5.5, what a joke, that should have been a quiet upgrade on the Apple store.
This is like the wireless "Friend Finder" on some Nokia phones, to find people in the area who have the bluetooth on to pickup chicks.
Nobody has the phones, so nobody will be sharing.. Same with the ZUNE who the hell Am I going to share the songs with? The one guy i meet in 6 months that has a zune? People think a bunch of hot chicks are going to run around with zunes? Girls love cute, and simple, Girls love macs (they look cute), girls love ipods, and many a PC user has had to buy his girlfriend an iPod.
People have iPods, not Zunes, nobody will be sharing songs, except for a few geeks who meet at some convention.. And even then it will suck.. Wooohhhooo, I gave you 3 songs, but geeks who actually share songs, will have hacked it to share entire libraries.
On the other hand people like hot chicks will be like? "SONG SHARE?" what? I have no idea how that works? what's going on? My iPod is cute.
Wake up people. Steve has ever right to be confident. What do you think the iPod team has been developing for the last year? More of the same iPods? Why do you think the 5.5g iPods seemed like a small bump? Because it was. Steve is waiting for the Zune to launch. And Kill it.
The Video iPod is real, it's awesome, and it's everything the zune won't be... Wait and see.
Things Apple will offer as of January
1) Wireless iPod Syncing.
2) Library Sharing over the iPod (Just like iTunes)
3) Updated iPod Interface Similar to FrontRow
4) HDTV h.264 movies over it's "iTV" System
5) Intergration with cellphones
6) Using the iPod to network with other iPods around you, yes as a social network, with geo-locating and other features.
Engadget peeps, what's with the "His Steveness" and "Herr Steve"? It was annoying 15 years ago with the copy-guy on SNL, please stop it.
What girl you just met would possibly want to put your grody nasty earbud into her ear? That's just nasty. Dumbest thing I read today.
Well Sony wasn't worried about the XBox so I am really interested to see how this plays out. Either way, Apple will have to stop dragging it's feet and do some real development on the iPod for a change.
Wi-fi sounds great and everything, but how much battery life can one expect from a Zune that has been DJing, trading songs, and what not?
The major thing I love about my iPod Nano is that the battery lasts for 14 hours. Which is perfect cause I am not home 12 hours of the day.
Ummm... Macs included AppleTalk at release in 1984. That was a network port built into the hardware and a network protocol built into the OS. Now when did networking become standard in the OS on PCs? Hint, a once important company called Novell made quite a living providing networking.
No mac has ever shipped without networking. Ever.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion, but not their own set of facts.
SJ, btw, was an advocate of killing sneaker net--Next cubes and imacs were on the bleeding edge of floppyless-ness.
last comment in reference to free radical @ Oct 16th 2006 10:50AM
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