Vista gets a date: November 30th (and January 30th, 2007)

It's been five long, interesting, industry-changing years since the world's most pervasive PC operating system underwent its last revision, but the time is at long last upon us. Vista (and Office 2007), as we understand it, will be launched officially (really) November 30th to corporate customers, while consumers will be able to get theirs going January 30th, 2007. Stay tuned as the bugs keep a gettin' squished over Redmond way, and we count down to what will probably be the biggest software launch since XP.

[Via Slashdot, thanks Jonathan]

[Mark @ Nov 3rd 2006 11:22AM]

Spot the fanboy...

[Wick3d GooSe @ Nov 2nd 2006 4:18AM]

Sweet deal. I can't wait to get my copy off the newsgroups! Nov. 30th here we come!

[Sergio @ Nov 2nd 2006 4:23AM]

I don't even think its worth it, the requirements are too high for a few improvements that one can live without. Although, the alt+tab is a nice resource hog =D

[mat @ Nov 2nd 2006 4:48AM]

Why do not the just say Launching on 1 Dec. and 1 Feb, thats what 30 Nov and 30 Jan means.

[Danny @ Nov 3rd 2006 3:17AM]

it sounds way better the way MS say it. they make it seem as if it is launching earlier than it actually is. with the next month instead of the month it is on, people will think, "oh, that long?" and stuff

[rusgrafx @ Nov 6th 2006 4:42PM]

I guess it's for the same reason they put $4.99 in price tags instead of $5.00. :)

[Shunnabunich @ Nov 2nd 2006 5:50AM]

Biggest fuss over a service pack I've ever seen.

*shakes head and walks away chuckling*

[dextro @ Nov 2nd 2006 6:16AM]

But it's a cool service pack... you get to pay for useless eye-candy that will make you pay even more money for hardware parts you probably only need for the new OS and an extre feature that will nag you everytime you actually try to use your computer for anything else than surfing the web or writting an e-mail... wait it will even nag you for that!

[chaos @ Nov 2nd 2006 6:32AM]

You all kno vistas gonna be good, so stop being whiny about how its a service

[Jarod @ Nov 2nd 2006 6:43AM]

As much as I know the PC crowd are nothing but a bunch of clueless idiots; I have a strong feeling that there will be a lot less of them this time around. It's about time that garbage corporation got put away and buried once and for all.

[Jeff Lewis @ Nov 2nd 2006 6:50AM]

Get over yourself.

I hate to burst your bubble, but Microsoft isn't going anywhere anytime soon and like it or not, Vista - not MacOS, not Linux, not Unix - will be the default OS on the vast majority of new computers shipping after 1 Feb 2007.

[Samifumi @ Nov 2nd 2006 6:56AM]

I had the RC2 partitioned on my PC, and if its any indication of what Vista will be like in practice, this is going to be a f*ckin disaster. The thing regularly gave me the Blue Screen of Death each time it loaded, only 5 minutes into the OS. I won't be upgrading.

[Chris @ Nov 4th 2006 9:18PM]

You call us idiots, when you don't even use proper grammer.

"As much as I know the PC crowd are nothing but a bunch of clueless idiots"

Its as much as I know the PC crowd is nothing but a bunch of clueless idiots.You got schooled by a 13 year old fan boy. No I have not been a fan boy of Windows for 13 years. I am 13 years old.

[That Guy @ Jan 27th 2007 12:22PM]

To that comment about the default OS... Microsoft sucks, the company started with an idea that wasn't even theres and turned it to a piece of crap. I'm not making any promises, but from this youthful user typing, I plan on beating the mess outa Windows in about 20 years... It might be a while but my plans surpass there sorry imaginations any day...
-Just 14

[TJ Wasik @ Nov 2nd 2006 4:27PM]

That sounds like an issue I have, are you using an ATI vid card? Because the ATI vista beta drivers are having major issues causing a bsod citing atikmdag.sys as the cause. It usually happens a few min after bootup, although both ms and ATI claim it was fixed in rc2 it still occurs on my system in rc2

[akijikan @ Nov 2nd 2006 7:04AM]

I agree with all the "Why pay for..." statements.

Which is why I'll be downloading an illegal copy. And I don't care what you think.

[Zachary Hinchliffe @ Nov 2nd 2006 7:07AM]

To the Microsoft haters: Vista is way more than a service pack. It's more of a major OS release than 98, ME, or 2000 was, and just as big as XP.

Also, for anyone who says I'm biased: I am a Mac aficionado. You guys are just making people like me look stupid.

[SM @ Nov 2nd 2006 7:15AM]

Tried vista RC2, what a load of rubbish! Looks nice but thats about it and it's way too expensive. Next comp will be a 24" iMac....

[Alex @ Nov 2nd 2006 8:03AM]

Anyone know how long it'll be until they stop supporting XP? I need to brush up on my Ubuntu skillz before then... and also try to convince Valve to start making games for Linux.

[Killernight @ Nov 2nd 2006 8:47AM]

ok you can already get the corporate lic. for office 2007 and all of there products, in fact microsoft has discontinued selling he older lic codes.

but they dont know when the media will be avaliable to ship. so the lic. are backwards compatiable with the older programs, which means if you get visio 2007 right now and pay for the lic you have to get the 2003 media because the 2007 media is not avaliable.

oh and if you want the new program when the media is avaliable, you have to purchase that as well. Come-on Microsoft if you have to buy the NEW lic and a old cd, give us the new on for FREE!!!!!!!!

[kevin @ Nov 2nd 2006 9:23AM]

Wow i think i must be the only person on the planet who doesnt loathe vista/microsoft like it bludgeoned my cat and raped my mother. I actually liked the new look of vista and while i wont be rushing out to get the upgrade (unless i do go through with retail edge) but i will definitely be upgading when i get a better system

I remember everyone saying how xp was shit and everyone should stick with 98.

[JoKeR @ Nov 2nd 2006 9:42AM]

I think I'll stick to XP for a while or until Microsoft releases Vienna (earlier Blackcomb). I truly think that Vienna is going to be the next generation OS not Vista. I will upgrade my Office suite to '07 though.

[Ted B @ Nov 2nd 2006 9:47AM]

Tee hee silly Mac fans. You guys must be living in a parallel universe where Apple's market share is greater than 5%. Keep fighting the losing battle!

[MicrosoftPwnsU @ Nov 2nd 2006 9:54AM]

Wow, so many non technical users commenting on this today. I haven't had one issue with Vista. You all should wait for the Vista for dummies book. Thank goodness for my MSDN account!

[mavrick @ Nov 2nd 2006 10:13AM]

Serriously, I think all of you guys that are bashing windows should really read up on it before. I have windows running with no problems on many different hardware configurations for many weeks without rebooting. Just because you get your blue screens doesnt mean that windows sucks. It means that you installed some crap software or your hardware is not setup correctly. I also know admins that run ms sql on windows 2003 for 4 years without reboooting under heavy load. So if you don't have experience with windows, keep your silly comments to yourself.
PS. Ill switch to linux as soon as my thumb mouse pointer on my laptop will be configured by default with every installation. :)

[banana @ Nov 3rd 2006 10:32AM]

Puppy linux at a whopping 60MB will work with whatever obscure touchpad you might have. Out of the box. Anything else you need before you switch?

[Dave @ Nov 2nd 2006 10:29AM]

Will the November 30th Date be when it is released to members of their Education Partnership MSDNAA? Hope so, can't wait to get it installed :D

[Eric @ Nov 2nd 2006 10:32AM]

Ted,

Didn't get the memo, eh? Apple is now above 5 percent. In laptops its now 12 percent! Close to the 15 percent they had in their "golden years."

What I find funny is that for the past five years, every single release of OS X has made the SAME hardware faster! (Not counting Intel Macs and Windows here.) Quite the opposite of each release of Windows over the past 25 years (in which they've released fewer versions of Windows than Apple has released version of OS X since Sept. 2000).

Try THAT Microsoft!

[Ted B @ Nov 2nd 2006 10:57AM]

Nice try at spin Eric, but they are still only 5% at desktop usage. And what a surprise their laptop numbers finally go up once they switch to Intel and allow installation of windows. It's not like a bunch of "switchers" went to OSX and made the numbers go to 12%. Because aside from a few problems widely reported in the media, the Macbooks are well made and cool looking laptops that you can still run windows on.

And let's not even consider your OSX comment, because charging every year for a service pack does not equal a new version of an operating system. Obviously you haven't even tried Vista because it runs considerably better on my machine than Windows XP.

[Matt @ Nov 2nd 2006 11:13AM]

I don't agree at all.

The useage share of OSX is still below 5%, and every update of OSX has made my PowerBook G3 run slower and slower.

[Ceralor @ Nov 2nd 2006 11:26AM]

Made it faster? Tell that to my mom's iBook, thanks. Panther is slow as hell on it, not faster. I've told my mom not to buy Tiger for it until she gets a new iBook, but I don't see her upgrading anything other than RAM anytime soon.

[Dan Smith @ Nov 2nd 2006 11:53AM]

As to the Mac vs Windows fight that this has devolved to, I'd like to know where you're all pulling your "usage" and "installed base" numbers from (other than your asses, of course).

According to Gartner, Apple's most recent quarterly sales accounted for 6.1% of all U.S. computer sales, putting it just behind #3 Gateway, which accounted for 6.3%.

Of course, no one does a survey of computer use -- they only track sales. The obvious flaw being lifespan -- the average PC is utilized for no more than 18 months and then sold or trashed; the average Mac sees at least 3 years of use before being replaced or discarded, according to surveys of business users.

As for Vista's release dates -- I have a feeling that Apple will steal Microsoft's thunder on January 9, when OS X 10.5 is likely to be released for sale and the iTV is fully unveiled for public consumption. As it is, I see mostly business users leading the charge toward Vista, and even that market is going to be very caution after the severe stumbling blocks of the early adopters of XP.

[Ted B @ Nov 2nd 2006 12:19PM]

Ah yes, the latest "service pack" for Mac OSX is going to steal the thunder of the first new windows in 5 years. Well put Dan ;) And why do you say? Because of iTV. Of all the features of the next OSX revision, I don't think iTV is the reason why it could steal Microsoft's thunder. (call me when they release an HD iTV)

And I'm quoting my numbers from a Macworld article dated October 19, which says Apple's marketshare has reached 5.8%, below Dell at 32.1, HP at 23, and Gateway at 6.4. I know you Mac guys find this hard to believe, but until Apple allows the installation of OSX on non apple hardware they can never ever even hope to come close to overtaking windows.

I'd also like to know where YOU pulled your lifespan numbers from. Judging from the computers I've repaired from an "average joe" computer user, the average lifespan of a windows computer is 8 years. (That's a joke, son)

[SickNic @ Nov 2nd 2006 12:04PM]

Well, I just built a computer and need to buy XP anyways. It's a good thing newegg is giving me a free voucher for vista with my XP disk. I'll probably wait a little bit before I put vista on my computer though...

[Craig A @ Nov 2nd 2006 12:15PM]

personally i'd rather go for it's main competitor, ubuntu, and ubuntu with xgl is so handy and visually pleasing.. so while vista try and fix their bugs, ubuntu will be progressing further

[ren @ Nov 2nd 2006 12:19PM]

My response is "So what." Vista is an overpriced Stardock ripoff. And Stardock ripped off window themes from Linux. MS under Huston is overly concerned with piracy but it seems the only people that will be affected are clueless legit users of purchased copies of Vista. MS wants to resell your name, your address, and your phone number, as well as all the programs you've installed. Don't believe me? Just visit Belarc. Alexa is MS spy-ware. And Windows Media Player corrupts other codecs installed on your player so that you can't play certain media files. When it isn't doing that it is reporting you under the Digital Rights Management system built in to Windows Media. Don't believe me? Run the old Windows Media Classic player instead of Windows Media Player and see how much better it runs. No, Microsoft's days are numbered. After the issue of stiff penalties for users who just might purchase Vista but may not be able to update the software or even use all of it, people are turned off. MS knew this and issued a big cupon campaign. But you know. It is not going to work. MS is in real trouble. I predict the failure of Zune, the Palm rip-off too.

Why am I so angry? I am a legit XP owner and have experienced all these problems. I have tested Vista and it is terrible. MS depends on the users to fix the bugs through testing when it is their job to do so. Yet they mark-up the OS three times what it is worth.

[kriz @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:10PM]

"Ah yes, the latest "service pack" for Mac OSX is going to steal the thunder of the first new windows in 5 years"

Ah, you poor Microsoft fan boys, having to think of everything in Windows terms. If you can't see the difference between a service pack (aka fixing stuff that was horribly broken to begin with) and the major OS X releases (adding major functionality and features each time) then you are clearly delusional.

And i love how you try and spin the fact that Vista is so incredibly late that the five years is some sort of sign of huge and monumental changes. Have you used Vista? I have, and frankly there is very little that qualifies as huge or monumental. In fact, if this is the best that Microsoft can come up with after five years, well dang, thats pretty sad. Especially when most of the major features in Vista are catching up to Panther and Tiger, aka things Mac OS X allready has. Then when Leopard comes out early next year its going to have even BETTER features than Vista, the brand spankin new Microsoft OS does.

Now, having said that, i think MS learned their lesson and the next OS won't be so far delayed as this one, and I also think anyone who sees this as the nail in the coffin for Micrsofts market dominance is absolutely deluded. Its going to be YEARS before its even possible for MS to lose its dominance. Even if we assume that this is the absolute peak and they start losing Windows market share the sheer mass of computers out there, especially in buisness where the prospect of a major platform switch involves millions of dollars, isn't going away any time soon. Do I see Apple gaining share? Sure, but its not going to kill Microsoft. Do I see Linux gaining share? Sure, but they have even LESS of a chance than Apple.

Face it, to anyone who "hates" Microsoft get it through your heads that you aren't going to wake up tommorow in a world thats Microsoft free, unless you have a complete collapse of society that is.

[Ted B @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:51PM]

While it's true that service packs fix things that were already broken, they also add new features just like the new OSX releases every year. Do you think that whenever Apple releases a new version of OSX, that it only adds new things? They are fixing things just like Microsoft does.

If you had read my previous post[s] you would have seen that I have indeed used Vista. In fact I have RC2 installed on another partition. I also wasn't hinting towards anything; whether or not you think Vista is a monumental change compared to XP, when it comes out on January 30 it's going to be a big deal. Yes it sucks that Microsoft made so made so many mistakes developing Vista, and yes it should have come out two years ago, but it is still the first new windows in 5 years. When the majority of the computers in the world run Windows, you can bet it's a big deal whenever a new version comes out.

Once nvidia puts out a driver that doesn't suck, I'll be switching over to Vista full time. It runs exceptionally well for me, and runs noticeably faster than XP. Oh and yes we know: All MiKKKcro$$$oft does it steal from Apple. It's just OSX with a new name. Get over yourself. I'm also flattered that you think I'm a Windows fanboy. Just because I don't have a hard on for everything Apple doesn't make me a fanboy. If Apple allowed a legitimate install of OSX on my custom built PC, I'd be more than willing to give it a shot. Unfortunately they think you're only qualified to run OSX if you buy their overpriced computers. Stop making general assumptions about people you don't know.

[Phiggy @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:44PM]

If you don't like it, don't use it. Stop whining and screaming each other, you are all like little kids.

I for one can't wait for vista, I have RC2 and have had no problems, it actually performs better than any of my previous OS's so yippee for me and too bad for you! ha.

[Dan Smith @ Nov 2nd 2006 2:38PM]

Ted, the lifespan figures come from standard bussiness depreciation charts, (which value a standard desktop box at $0 18 months after purchase) and the industry-recorded MTBF per 10,000 units.

As for your "service pack" comments -- they're surprisingly childish. The fact of the matter is that on the Windows side, the service packs have introduced little of additional value to the user and have been mostly focused on a finger-in-the-dike mentality towards security and bug fixes. I doubt many people were wowed by the added feature of being able to use a drive larger than 137GB (woohoo) or a pop-up blocker for IE.

On the Mac side, the differences between 10.x and 10.(x+1) are quite noticeable and probably better than 7 out of 10 users will tell you that each major revision has made a significant impact on the way that they use their Macs, particularly for business workflows. Oh, and Apple releases incremental updates that not only address security and bug fixes, but add functionality, as well.

As stated, my sales numbers were from Gartner, which was also cited in the 19 October 2006 MacWorld article you cited. Generally speaking, IDG, whose numbers you cited, have traditionally been pessimistic about online sales.

Lastly, I don't really understand the people who choose to defend Windows to their dying breath -- unless they're paid by Microsoft. I've programmed and/or been paid to do work on Windows, Macs, Linux, Solaris, IRIX, DOS and NeXTSTEP. Of all of them (aside from DOS), Windows remains the one that was always the most frustrating to work with/on, especially if you're coming from a helpdesk mentality.

The whole problem is that the system is so convoluted and arcane that workarounds are SOP and re-inventing Windows is cost-prohibitive in the eyes of those who run the show in Redmond. A prime example of that is demonstrated by comparing what Longhorn/Vista was promised to deliver, versus what is actually shipping later this month. It's comparable to the corporate decision-making at Apple in 1995-1997, when the Blue Box/Yellow Box (Copland) environment concepts were abandoned in favor of what became MacOS/System 9.

Windows has become the modern equivalent of a medieval city -- with the new being built upon the rubble of the past.

[Ted B @ Nov 2nd 2006 6:52PM]

Dan: I'm glad that you can put on an intelligent debate, and I also understand what you are trying to say about the lifespan of a PC vs Mac. However in this particular debate it doesn't make a lick of difference. So you're saying that if we take into account that people replace their PCs more often than a Mac (which I'm still not convinced of), that suddenly this double or triples or quadruples Apple's market share? As I've already said, Apple has no hope of putting a dent in Microsoft's market share when they limit their operating system to their hardware.

Oh and yes I know that Apple adds more features in one of their 10.X version than Microsoft does in a service pack. They are charging money for it after all ;) I'm just stating that Microsoft has fixed and added features since the release of XP (and also releases new fixes every month). And come on, we both know that Dell, HP, and Gateway all sell a shitload of computers online, so even if IDG is pessimistic about online sales, it still evens out in the end.

I use windows because it has the features I need, supports the programs and games I use, and most importantly runs on the hardware that I have. Why should I convert to OSX when it doesn't run on my hardware, and doesn't add anything significant [in my opinion] that would warrant converting to Apple hardware? I find XP/Vista very easy to use, and since I'm not a programmer I have no opinion on how it aligns to my script writing standards.

[Ted B @ Nov 2nd 2006 3:44PM]

Dan: I'm glad that you can put on an intelligent debate, and I also understand what you are trying to say about the lifespan of a PC vs Mac. However in this particular debate it doesn't make a lick of difference. So you're saying that if we take into account that people replace their PCs more often than a Mac (which I'm still not convinced of), that suddenly this double or triples or quadruples Apple's market share? As I've already said, Apple has no hope of putting a dent in Microsoft's market share when they limit their operating system to their hardware.

Oh and yes I know that Apple adds more features in one of their 10.X version than Microsoft does in a service pack. They are charging money for it after all ;) I'm just stating that Microsoft has fixed and added features since the release of XP (and also releases new fixes every month). And come on, we both know that Dell, HP, and Gateway all sell a shitload of computers online, so even if IDG is pessimistic about online sales, it still evens out in the end.

I use windows because it has the features I need, supports the programs and games I use, and most importantly runs on the hardware that I have. Why should I convert to OSX when it doesn't run on my hardware, and doesn't add anything significant [in my opinion] that would warrant converting to Apple hardware? I find XP/Vista very easy to use, and since I'm not a programmer I have no opinion on how it aligns to my script writing standards.

[Ted B @ Nov 2nd 2006 4:54PM]

TJ: I've heard that the ATI drivers are even worse, but I'm using Nvidia. I don't get a BSOD, I just get garbled video coming back from any power saving mode. This means that if I have vista set to turn my monitor off after 5 minutes of no use, it will come back garbled and require a restart. Also if I try to play a video with VLC or MPC, the screen will go all garbled. Hopefully nvidia releases a stable driver before vista comes out on the 30th of January.

[Bill @ Nov 2nd 2006 7:54PM]

Ahh, the simple joy of going to college.

IT has already announced that when Vista and Office 2K7 come out, our current campus prices will be effective immediately. That means - Vista Ultimate for $5 (cost of CD duplication pretty much) and Office 2K7 for $0, either pick up CD at campus computer store or download it from the college servers.

There's no way in hell I would be paying full price for Ultimate, so this is very good.

[T.H. @ Nov 2nd 2006 8:27PM]

I used to use MacOS way back when System 7 was around but moved to Windows when XP came out. I do think there are a lot of positives with the Mac OS that XP still has yet to equal. The thing is with XP, things have been equalized enough that for the average user, usability is roughly on par.

As for Vista being a service pack. It is not. There is a lot of under the hood code changes and major portions have been rewritten for better security and usability. This is not simply refining existing features or fixing large number of bugs which is what I consider a service pack to be. This is a major rewrite. On the surface, it might seem like all they did was pretty it up Vista compared to XP but from everything I've read, there is a lot of changes under the hood that is not readily apparent but should provide for not only a safer and more secure single user experience, but with it's increased security it should decrease spam due to hijacked machines forming botnets spewing spam and hack and ddos attacks.

That said, the much heavier hardware requirements will mean that uptake of Vista will be somewhat slow since for most users, they see no apparent reason to upgrade from XP to Vista. How do you quantify better security? All the end user knows is, it looks and feels roughly the same.

I do question MS's release of a corporate version before a general consumer version. Corporations and large businesses are places where stable computing environments are crucial to running their business efficiently whether it is accounting, data crunching, easy access to employee data or other stuff. I mean, many large businesses are still using Windows NT.

I don't think in the long run it will hurt MS for releasing Vista to corporate customers first, it's just somewhat puzzling to release it to customers who traditionally are slow to switch products and ignore the general consumer crowd. Then again, considering most Windows OS sales are from bundled computers, maybe MS is waiting for more powerful computers to be released so Vista doesn't feel as sluggish on the computers sold today.

[Danny @ Nov 3rd 2006 3:17AM]

to everyone bashing windows vista, it aint bad at all! It is by far the best OS from MS i had ever used. It looks nice, but all the cool stuff about it wears off after a bit with the OS. The thing I like about the OS is that everything is CLEAR. They do many tasks for you automatically whereas you would do those tasks manually on an older OS. The thing i like most about vista is that my software and applications dont freeze up the pc or go to a "not-responding" state as often. Also, they dont go into the "___ has stopped working" state much either. That saves a lot of annoyance. I am running RC2 and had quite a few bugs and glitches. I submitted all problems, glitches, and bugs to MS and MS has sent me a notice that they have been fixed on RTM Vista. Seriously guys, Vista aint really too bad. It is basicly an enormously improved Windows XP.

[Jim @ Nov 12th 2006 1:16AM]

Its now so fashionable to critisise microsoft. Face it Microsoft has by far the largest market share. And if it is so crap then why isnt everyone on using Lunix or Mac?

[Mike @ Nov 6th 2006 8:21AM]

By the way Chris, it's spelled grammar not grammer.

[Randy @ Nov 5th 2006 2:11PM]

Quote:
"Wow, so many non technical users commenting on this today. I haven't had one issue with Vista. You all should wait for the Vista for dummies book. Thank goodness for my MSDN account!"

They already have it. I saw it on DISCOUNT at Office Depot. And to all you with incompatible systems, you'll have to upgrade sometime. Also to the people who keep having it crash, are you running the minimum system requirements? They are pretty high, but it is totally worth it. I still have Beta 2, and have had no problems except with drives (not everyone makes beta drivers).

[i really want the cingular 8125 @ Nov 5th 2006 9:38PM]

I know I read the article, but how much is an upgrade from XP Home to Vista Home Premium?

In American dollars please, the Australian system confuses me.