It's been a long, arduous trip prying our way into Microsoft's inner workings this past year, but we finally got a chance to sit down with all three
Zunes and get some serious play time with the damned things. It may be a little early to give final impressions, but let's just say what we saw is a very decent start. The player was responsive and fast; all functions worked flawlessly and without delay. The software and storefront has a lot of new, unique features that make browsing and finding music a more engrossing, enjoyable experience. Obviously Apple is the game to beat -- and a tough game at that -- but something tells us this little player's got some fight in it. We're not going to talk too much about the device itself, namely because we'd rather show you; later today expect a walkthrough of every nook and cranny of the device, and a demo of its wireless functionality. But in the mean time, click on for loads more high res shots of the Zune family, software, Marketplace, and, um, executive briefcase.
White, black (with blue double-shot), and brown (with green double-shot). You'll be seeing a lot more of that detailing momentarily.
So what was hardware revision 1, anyway?
Another picture which helps illustrate that double-shot effect; the translucent white was nearly as good as the brown/green.
The white happened to be the most photogenic, but we'll have plenty of shots of all the devices.
The double-shot kind of makes you forget that it's a little thicker than you might like it to be. Sorry, that'll be the last time we mention the double-shot.
The rear, as you may know, has a small circular indentation exactly opposite the circular d-pad on the other side. Supposedly it's so your hand feels the symmetry and is more comfortable when it's in portrait mode.
P.S. -"Hello from Seattle."
The matte finish is very good at reflecting fingerprints, and overall the body feels extremely solid. It's not a metal body, but it doesn't really need to be.
So it was pretty obvious they had to do a stark white Zune, right? We're going to go out on a limb with the iPod lovers in the house and say we liked it more. Again, the body repelled fingerprints, and felt solid and scratch resistant. We were happy to learn the back and play/pause buttons to the left and right weren't touch-sensitive (ala the 3G iPod), but were actual buttons with tactility. Bullet dodged.
The dock connector was hard to capture, but what do you need to see? It pretty much looks like every other dock connector out there.
The top of the unit is very minimalist: hold switch and headphone jack and that's it. Refreshing, considering the only thing we didn't like about the
Gigabeat S was the bevy of buttons wrapped around every side and corner.
We're not done.
Here we've got the ZuneCase. It's a ZeroHalliburton; we asked if the combination was 007, but we were fed the standard-issue "If I told you I'd have to kill you..."
Precious cargo. Do you have any idea what these would sell for on the black market?
Let's move on to the software.
So we got a chance to play with the very media-heavy Zune software and
Marketplace. At first blush it looks a lot like your usual
PlaysForSure operation, but the devil's in the details. Outside the obvious differences (photo and movie manager, etc.), Microsoft's attempted to take the music store to the next step. We didn't get to the downloading-syncing-loading-listening part of the process, but what we did see we liked.
You've got your highlighted content, top artist / album / song, etc., dynamic leads per genre, recommended music, the usual fare.
Drilling down a little further, however, you can get some more interesting categorizations. Styles, year, playlists, and new releases are some of the methods one can use to get in good with the Zune store's content.
From here things look familiar enough; snag the track for X or Y amount of dollars/points, track info, etc.
But start looking at artists, genres, albums, and what have you, you'll see "depth" per stack based on how much content is available. It's an interesting and remarkable new way of quickly visually assessing where your content is (and isn't).
Finally, in here we've got the cached index of shared tracks between Zunes. Convenient for a) you remembering a song someone sent your Zune, and b) Microsoft remembering a song someone sent your Zune. Kinda makes it hard to get sent that song again, or to stay away from aggregate statistical customer analysis.
Generally the software seemed very responsive, especially search. This may have had to do with the fact that the Zune software stores an index of every artist, album, and track on your hard drive for faster access (don't worry, they say it's minuscule, which we've got our doubts about), as well as all the images you pull up while browsing.
As for the hardware, again, we'll reserve judgment here and let you see for yourself in our forthcoming Zune video. There isn't much we can say at this point about the
crippled functionality of the wireless, but if you haven't already come to terms with what features the Zune is and isn't launching with, then you might want to try and look at it for its merits as a player (while ignoring the wireless) -- or simply keep looking for another device. See you in a few!
posted Nov 3rd 2006 10:23AM
@ Jarod
"Because its from Microsoft" is the same argument used to explain the success the iPod "from Apple" which is also a piece of shit music player, but that doesn't stop everyone and their sister from buying them. You could do better than either product for less money, but most people can only handle comparing two of something. For that reason, it stands a chance.
PLEASE tell me that's sarcastic. If not...
why are the pictures all grainy? lol
A high iso to compensate for low light?
If only it was smaller.
If it were smaller, what would be the point in trying to watch
video on it? Not to nit-pick or anything but I would think with
regards to ergonomic concerns there is a "realistic" size that
is optimal for viewing video. Remember also that the Zune player
isn't just a music player with "bolted-on" video capabilities.
It is designed to be a multimedia player. It would be nice if
it were slimmer in size from a thickness standpoint. I'm one of
those that also bemoans MS's wireless implementation in Zune
it's the one thing that kills it for me..
Digg it here:
http://digg.com/gadgets/Microsoft_Zune_player_and_software_hands_on_gallery_w_pics_Engadget
I dunno, those pics make it look cheap. Like it's powered soft plastic case is just like those plastics they use on some trash cans. Not sure why they didn't go more of a solid look, not necessarily glossy, but not that soft matte plastic look. ANd the case? Come on, that's like a little over kill for such a small device, lol. Can't help but to see iTunes music store glorified in that Zune store.
The more I see these the more I actually start to like the Zune. Then again, Apple will just introduce the touch sensitive iPod and blow them away again. I can see this turning into a good battle though. MS certainly has the money and market research to get into the market easier than any other company.
Err, isn't the Zune player just a reskinned Windows Media Player 11? That certainly does the stacking thing...
Just curious if anyone knows if the input plug on the bottom is the same size as the iPod's? I know in a CNet review I watched they said it was a proprietary USB input, but it looks roughly the same dimensions as an iPod adapter from all the photogs that I have seen.
I'd love to look into a Zune but only if I'd be able to use it with my existing iPod2Car installation.
TIA.
Wow, look the batterys are almost dead already...
"Like it's powered soft plastic case is just like those plastics they use on some trash cans."
Yeah, it looks like it's in one of those "iSkin" neoprene gel cases or whatever they're made of. Those things are the quickest way to take an iPod and make it look like trailer trash. MS didn't quite take the right design cues here - those cases may be popular, but they are ugly as sin and while a lot of iPod users have them, a lot of other iPod users wouldn't be caught dead with that look.
Anyway, this thing is just too big and bulky, especially for a 30GB model. As ugly as it is and as reliant on Windows Media Player (which is probably the only jukebox software more bloated than iTunes), I really still don't see how this thing even has a snowball's chance in hell.
btw, what's up with the "Hardware Version: 2.0" on the LCD screen at the top? Did they already go through one revision that they simply junked before it even hit the market? Wouldn't they just reset the clock if that's the case?
I'm a big apple fanboy, and I've had every iPod since the beginning.
However, I like the Zune. The screen looks really nice and it does one thing well, it makes the iPod screen look outdated.
Also, I think Microsoft didn't do what other companies fail at, scrutinizing the product and not the software. If the software works well, I would consider one. Now if I could just unlock my iTunes music.
Can the fine folks at Engadget dive into details about the DRM on Zune? I'm intrigued, but not if it means I lose all the songs/videos I purchased legally through iTunes.
Does anyone know a good DRM hack? This business is really starting to frustrate me. Imagine if digital cameras worked the same way - all saving your pictures in a proprietary format that could only be viewed using their software. Imagine you trade your Cannon in for a newer model of a Nikon, and voila! - all your pictures are now useless. Can't believe the digital music industry is getting away with this.
That's what i haven't seen... what are the Zune's DRM terms?
i.e. how many computers can you transfer the song to, how many times can you burn it to CD etc.. is it different for 'rented' or purchased music.. i've not seen any of this.. Apple DRM terms are very liberal but what about Zunes?
And will it be only able to play content from the Microsoft downloads? If so then i'll just stay with my creative zen vision:m thank you very much. I can't be doing with all that content locking stuff.
you didn't hear it from me, but as long as you didn't buy too much off iTunes, its easy enough to burn protected AAC tracks to an audio CD (use a rewritable) and then rip them to whatever format you like. sure you lose some quality in the process, and its legality is in the gray zone, and its a hassle if you bought alot of tracks, but it gets the job done (as long as the new iTunes hasn't fixed this "hack")
Probably because iPod is the market leader and considered the defacto standard. It makes more sense to measure each player against the iPod.
Wow... I myself am an Apple fanboy but some of you Anti-Microsoft people are ridiculous.
I personally think this looks more promising than most wanna-be "iPod Killer" out there. Sure there are other players that have a ton of features that make them more appealing than either the iPod or the Zune, but the difference is in the feel of the product, emotional, visual and physical when it is in your possession. I think very few players have that and I would definitely like to get a zune in my hand to compare it to the competition because it looks very promising.
Of course as with most players you can be assured I would steer away from anything having to do with their music store and DRM infested tracks. I upload my own music to my DAP.
Sorry buddy no mac support.. if only microsoft was as nice as apple by letting then use ipods on windows.
@Spoonie
I think many people already know how to rip the DRM from Play for Sure and iTUNE purchases to enable these purchased songs to play on any music player as long as that file type is supported. If it isnt supported, rip the DRM off the file then recode it to something that will play on your targeted music player!
People are dumb to buy ANYTHING FROM ANY of these online stores. Buy from iTunes and you're stuck with Apple. Buy from Zune and you're stuck with Zune. Removing DRM only helps if a competing player will play the file. That may be the case with Zune, but for the most part, it's not the case with M4A. And yes, you could transcode to the other format, but didn't you already compromise enough when you bought that low quality audio file? Do you really want to take a less than spectacular source and make it sound even worse?
Buy CD's. If an artist only has one good song, don't buy it. Maybe labels will start investing more in artists that make albums. Then again, I sometimes think people want albums to be a collection of singles, and very few great albums are made up of songs that were all destined for the radio.
Microsoft releases a superior online experience for their product (which, itself, is clearly just as good if not better than the precious iPod) and Apple fanboys the world over weep.
Sorry--as much as you might deny it, the Zune Arts site is pretty damn neat already and has lots of potential. And the regular Zune site is a whole helluva lot more appealing than Apple's. Don't worry hipsters and hipsterettes, you're still and always will be the coolest in the room though.
Has anyone commented on the site at all here?
That music store looks exactly like URGE, which is a good thing.
Ipod Lemmings Am Cry....
LOL. The Ipod guys are really touchy over other players aren't they. You would think Apple pays them or something. Anyway, looks good, has subscription music, and I'm in need for a bigger player anyway... Day one purchase for me. Gotta get two, one for the wife. And, I will get the Brown one. BTW, I don't know if I'm the only one that does this, but anytime I hear a brown/excrement remark, I immediately tag the moron who said it as an ignorant, racist.
I just don't have this deep Microsoft hate that the Ipod Lemmings have. If it looks good, I'm getting it. And, that it does. It'll go nice right alongside my 360 and flat panel in the living room.
@Bravo
Looks like someone had God-complex for breakfast. Do you need to be burped? GTFU, dude. Stop cutting your English class...it shows. If you don't like the spot, why come here in the first place? Asscrack.
I wonder when Apple will tell Microsoft they patented 'Stacks' some time back already.
The more I read and look at the Zune, the more I'm interested in it. I love my 4G U2 iPod, but this has me interested in switching.
1999: "The one thing Apple's providing now is leadership in colors. It won't take long for us to catch up with that, I don't think." -- Bill Gates
2006: Zune. Brown.
But start looking at artists, genres, albums, and what have you, you'll see "depth" per stack based on how much content is available. It's an interesting and remarkable new way of quickly visually assessing where your content is (and isn't).
- I'm pretty sure that Apple has an unused patent for this idea that was supposedly going to be added the the Finder. In any case, it's certainly not a new idea and if you google hard enough, i'm sure you'll find out its history
"But start looking at artists, genres, albums, and what have you, you'll see "depth" per stack based on how much content is available. It's an interesting and remarkable new way of quickly visually assessing where your content is (and isn't).
- I'm pretty sure that Apple has an unused patent for this idea that was supposedly going to be added the the Finder. In any case, it's certainly not a new idea and if you google hard enough, i'm sure you'll find out its history"
hey Jay Tyler,
i do remember seeing Apple's "piles" patent application... last year or the year before... a lawsuit may be in the near future for MS Zune...
The Zune won't play your iTunes tracks that are DRMed up, but then again, neither will any player.
The best way to deDRM (you can have so much fun with a two letter pre/suffix) is to either burn them, but the audiophiles out there don't like that solution. They usually cry 'lossy', but I don't notice it at all.
The other way is to record the output from your iPod. If you have an input on your PC and some audio recording software (ala, Audacity) you can just record them through the input, but that could be mighty impractical as they will arrive with not ID tags at all.
Hope some of that has been helpfull, just reply back if you want anything else.
Can someone answer me this cause I havent been following it to well.
Has anyone gone over the compatibility of the Zune player/store with a Mac?
I'm open to either player, but I hesitate on the Zune as I use a Mac and fear it being like iTunes on a PC.
Oh and the brown is extremely attactive - looks like an old magnavox TV remote - 25" with a brown cabinet. the design group at ms is horrible -
I think that this looks like a great product. I hope Microsoft pulls off a successful launch. FOr now I am still an Apple guy at heart (recent convert) but this device gets my nerd juices flowing!
Engadget, thanks for posting all the pictures.
- Kiteless
2Ghz MacBook - 5.0Gen iPod
AMD 64bit Tower.
@LittleJoe
Yeah I know what the compatibility is like. There won't be any. Which means I won't be buying since I have a Mac.
I figured it'd be more of a hassle then its worth. Thanks.
i don't understand the subscription thing.. i would sooner just use satellite radio than subscription.. especially if subscription ties me into a particular player.. if i don't want to use that subscription provider any more i have to dump the player...
if the satellite providers were smart they would just create an iPod add-on that would let you pipe satellite radio into an iPod... if Apple was smart they would assist the satellite providers all they can... just to satisfy anyone who was so inclined.
I am stuck on the thickness of this player. Do we have to buy a man purse to carry this thing around? And if the Wifi will be so crippled, why should I buy such a thick 'music' player?
what will make me buy this is if the community hacks this thing and lets us share without restrictions. until then it just doesn't do enough for me to switch.
i do love it's look, the entire marketing campaign has been visually brilliant and countered the clean, almost sterile ipod with this rugged urban look that has been awesome.
i also think the interface is going to be far superior.
One of the main reasons why I decided to go with an iPod last year was because of the huge number of accessories and the market penetration of the thing. Looks like Zune might be off to a good start if it can have the accesories avaialable once it comes out, as it appears to be.
Too bad though that I wouldn't consider it because: 1.) a bit too big, 2.) It would be a pain in the ass to have to convert all of my lossless music over to work with the Zune, 3.) I'm happy with my 5G iPod.
So is Microsoft a little bit too late to join the party? Will they succeed with the Zune? They may still get some of my hard-earned cash if they release a competitor for the nano with 8gb or even 10gb. I have considered buying a Meizu M6 but I'm not too sure. I need a small DAP for workouts and also for when I don't want to carry my 5G but I'm not too convinced with the nano at this time. Has any of you used the Meizu M6 and how do you like it?
Does the Zune have gapless playback, chapters for audio books, podcast support, calendar sync, phone book sync, import photos on the go, let you create multiple playlist on the go, Nike2Go etc etc..
The iPod has had years of development and refining, I hardly want to start all over with that brick of a ZUNE.
Also the iTunes music store has audio books, TV shows, movies, a huge collection of free podcast... come on its not even a contest.
Its just Microsoft recycling the Gigabeat S player and branding it as their own.
If Microsoft was serious about going up against the iPod they would have done it right and started from the ground up just like Apple did 5 years ago. Then we would have something to talk about, instead we are trying to give credit to Microsoft for rebranding someone elses MP3 player and recycling their failed URGE/PlayForSure music software.
lame
This is very unlikely to beat the ipod, I'll wait for the side by side reviews before making a final choice but I think that a) lack of a decent control system b) physical size and c) not doing anything that ordinary consumers want better than the ipod (the wireless thing is, let's be honest, a geeks only zone) will mean the player is stillborn.
Shopping for Xmas just got easier for me!!!!
I dont know if this belongs here, but..CostCo is going to be selling zunes. I was uplaoding a file to Costcos FTP site for a client and Saw a file marked ZUNECOSTCOBASE.sit I have the file and a sceen shot if Engad want to post it
did i see the price per track is .79? must be incentive.
Still can't get over that bezel surrounding the screen and pod wheel looking thingy.... Why? Does not make a design sense to me... It is visually intrusive, and not what I think they were trying for,,,,,, (visual unity?)
Of course, it does move your eye away from the screen backgrounds, that is a good thing !!!....
Although, those screen backgrounds do keep you from having to focus on the gestalt of thing...
The brown once is perhaps the ugliest piece of consumer electronics ever conceived. Brown is great for people, beer bottles and chocolate and not much else.
And Dell Package Design!!!!!
@shon Dempsey
Music at Zune Marketplace are going to cost 79 Microsoft Points, or about $0.99.
I wonder why they use a 80 points to a dollar conversion instead of a 100 points = 1.00. Probably want to mislead customers.
you put bevels on the screen the same reason you put black around projectors to increase the contrast viewed on the screen or trick the eye to make it look even better...
the double shot is beautiful, and the round entry should work great my biggest agrivation with my old ipod was the near zero tactile for when its in my pocket.
And give me a break the device is a little thicker but not a brick give me a break, everyone has said it feels good in your hand so stop frigging whining....
its got a bigger screen that alone should be enough to sell it over the 5.5g ipod.... and heres the nasty part people
it took apple 5 YEARS to release the 5.5g ipod ... it took microsoft less than 1 to get the first zune devices ready and out to market with all the features the ipod has and more.
Stop saying apples releaseing a touchscreen ipod the fact is apple hsant announced anything and has been saying they have no plans to do it in the near future either.. why? a touch screen player are you serious think aobut it for a second beyond the initial ooh aah... its usability would suck... what next a stylus for it as well? guess we should just get a frigging PDA then!
Its funny how apple fanboys twist it to make the zune look bad, yet it out performs it in UI, Hardware, Features, and on top of that matches the price point... of the comparable ipod... thats pure fanboyism if i've ever heard of it.
OMG! it took 5 years to release the 5.5G ipod, huh? Apple really screwed the pooch on that one.
Chris wrote: "It took apple 5 YEARS to release the 5.5g ipod ... it took microsoft less than 1 to get the first zune devices ready and out to market with all the features the ipod has and more."
I'm not sure this is an accurate statement. The Zune is a combination of what Microsoft has been doing for some time. It adapts their different attempts at an online store and now it becomes the Zune store. Microsoft modifies the design of a Toshiba player and it becomes their Zune player. To be entirely fair that makes Microsoft's effort to bring Zune to market longer than five years.
Your point about it taking Apple 5 years to get the iPod to version 5.5 is true. Yet think of the vision it took to put all of the iPod and iTunes system together. True, others had build hard disk music players before the iPod. Yet the iPod was an innovation when it first came out. Add to that iTunes and how easy it is to use both. I think that's what make the iPod successful.
Finally, I would hope that Microsoft would have learned from the Apple model. After all, that is the Microsoft way: let others discover a market, let others start to build that market, then borrow from their efforts and overwhelm that market. Microsoft is hoping to do the same thing in this area as well.
Only time will tell how successful they will be.
Your comment that it took Apple 5 years to release the 5.5g iPod are dead wrong. First of All, Apple has been releasing a new iPod on average every 8 months with double the disk space, and usually twice as many features, music, then videos, then games, and so on.
The development of what you call the 5.5g iPod took 6 MONTHS IN TOTAL AND HAD ONLY 27 PEOPLE WORKING ON IT! And if it makes you feel any better Apple had prototypes of full color, full widescreen 16:9 iPods 3 years ago when I saw them with my own eyes.
And as for the Zune, I know for a fact (As one of my best friends works at Microsoft) they have been developing the "Zune" for about 3 years now in concept right along with the XBox 360. It was all about competition for Microsoft, they wanted something to take on the iPod. The Funny part was Microsoft had many, MANY concepts (just like Apple), but the best part is, I saw a "Tune Player" aka Zune as it was called by the head-spinning ms groupies (yes how the xbox 360) got it's name... and that prototype I saw over a year ago LOOKS exactly LIKE the Zune they released to the public NOW!, they didn't update a damn thing except the actual software interface, which I can't even believe.
And for you to think Apple is just sitting around, spending 5 years designing more boring iPods that have half the face as a screen you ONLY need look at the last 50 patents Apple has filed, and I can tell you that come Christmas, nobody will be talking about the Zune. It will be all about the new Apple device, the one that's going to replace, YES I SAID IT. REPLACE THE IPOD AS YOU KNOW IT.
Apple has a next big thing, microsoft, just is playing catch up, and jumping into a field that Apple already won, and you know why Apple doesn't care? Because they have a whole new idea, something bigger, something that's completely different.
I think the current Zune is in fact MUCH more feature rich than say a 5.5g iPod, but just wait till you can actually by a Zune. And watch Apple laugh at you.
You saw the video, the navigation is horrible. The interface is horrible. and it's think, and ugly, and has buttons like a 3 year old iPod. It has a bigger screen.... And I'm sure Apple probably geeze, isn't EVER planning on releasing a bigger screen iPod (it's not like they've filed 50 patents on it or anything).
Have fun with your Zune, get one now, so that way when people get the new iPod for Christmas, you can look at your Zune, and think wow, it's XP all over again, it's like the Fisher Price of portable devices I own!!!
It's not 79 cents per track, those are Zune credits - specially designed to obfuscate actual cost, and to make purchasing your music a two step procedure:
1. buy credits
2. buy your music
The credits cost more than their face value, so 79 credits cost more than 79 cents. They're also bought in numbers that aren't convenient multiples of the cost of most songs, so you'll typically have extra credits sitting on your account unused after a purchase - basically providing Microsoft with an interest-free loan out of your pocket.
Altogether a pretty craptacular way to make people pay...
Dan: its not ugly... in fact if you check amazon and other places the brown zune is getting requested more than the others even... and many reviewers have said they are partial to the brown zune and how much better it looks in person
Yeah, I like the brown too.
But last I checked Amazon, black was the biggest pre-seller, followed by brown, then white (which goes against engadget's editors, as they prefer the white).
Seems like a solid product, but as someone else said, Microsoft is still behind the game. When Apple releases their next-gen iPod the Zune will become obselete.
Everything looks great to me. Now I have to test it myself in the store. I use Urge right now which is the best service I found so far. This looks just like Urge, but with a Zune twist. Zune is the near future of entertainment! (if they keep playing their cards right)
Chris @ Nov 3rd 2006 12:52PM
" you put bevels on the screen the same reason you put black around projectors to increase the contrast viewed on the screen or trick the eye to make it look even better..."
I think I said bezel..... Yah, that is what I said....and contrast??? Your telling me that it needs a bezel to increase viewing pleasure....? And your exactly right about tricking the eye... Except, for the "making it look better" part....
Sorry, but I just do not have a lot of faith in Microsoft products. I have used them since 95, and I guess relate them to much to work... Or, does not work......
Vista on a Vaio? Hot.
That thing is huge, reminds me of the old style brick phones. I thought we're supposed to be moving forward in technology, not backwards. Then again it is a MS product.
Engadget should really get a real photographer.
That's a heck of a Zune briefcase!
Thanks for the great pics.
Harvey
http://www.zunerama.com
Are you serious? Of course Microsoft would COPY all of the features of the ipod in an attempt to push the Zune out into a market that is dominated by it (the ipod). All this bickering over MS vs Apple and their related products is all well in good for we geeks, but you need to think beyond the walls of your computer room. People buy the ipod because 1) it looks good, nice clean and solid, 2) Good marketing! its trendy to own one because trendy people own them...whats so wrong with that?! 3) its EASY TO USE! Regardless of what you think, if youre not computer savvy the ipod is amazing! Sync songs, spin your finger around the wheel to go up or down the menus, click the middle button to advance menus. its very intuitive...so long as you don't overthink it.
The Zune will do nothing to the market except, maybe eat up the small percentage not controlled by the ipod.
@ Go ignorance
Your list of reasons is a joke. Go home and tell mommy you need your 28th version of ipod so you can stay cool in school. Apple pulled off the biggest marketing scheme in history by releasing a new version every year with no new features. They just relied on spoiled little children to cry to their parents begging for the new version because jimmy down the street has it.
If you know anything about marketing and product launches you would have a much better appreciation for what Microsoft is doing. If you seriously think they will not pull away market share, they you know nothing about Microsoft and its history of "late" product introductions. Here is another one that everyone thought would flop when Microsoft introduced it and that Sony would hold ground----> XBOX!!!!!
I am buying one because the features are there and you are not required to use crappy itunes. Microsoft has pulled off a major accomplishment by doing this in less then a year and it will be very successful.
gohomekid,
i guess doubling the capcity and reducting the size and at the same price point every year don't count as features?
every heard of the old saying... don't fix it if it aint broke? they have consistently given users more capacity in an ever shrinking package for the same price... sounds good to me.. and obviously for most consumers too, if you look at the numbers...
http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/archive/2006/11/03/is-zune-marketplace-just-a-wmp11-skin.aspx
Sorry, just reread what I wrote and I made an error: the end of the second paragraph should read "longer than one year" instead of "longer than five years." Sorry for the error!
What's up with all you numbnuts winging about fanboys? What a patronizing bunch you are.
Microsofts 'stacks' really remind me of 'Piles'.
http://alex.monsterspond.com/?itemid=10
eveyone keeps saying that you cant use itunes songs, but I think you can.
http://www.zune.net/en-us/meetzune/software.htm
"And Zune software can automatically import your existing files, including your music and video from iTunes® and Windows Media® Player.[1][1] Zune software can import audio files in unprotected WMA, MP3, AAC; photos in JPEG; and videos in WMV, MPEG-4, H.264."
ohh unprotected. well serves you ipodiots right for having DRMed music in the first place. this is american damnit; land of the free!
Why are so many people hating? There is plenty of room for another good player to grace the industry. I for one don't want to be spoon-fed the same old stale crap over and over again. I think Microsoft has done a very good job with their first player and their music service.
I think that as they progress and upgrade software/firmware, people will see that it might actually be a pretty cool player. This thing will probably end up linking up well with a XBOX 360 in the near future. I think they will also start implementing a wireless download feature so we can get songs when we are away from out computers.
One thing I would like to see that I haven't seen (maybe I just haven't seen it yet) is car companies putting in a universal hookup for a car radio so that we can listen to the tunes in our car. Or putting in a mini radio transmitter without the fuss of a fm transmitter accessory.
"the more I read and look at the Zune, the more I'm interested in it. I love my iPod, but this makes me interested in switching."
Wow -- talk about a comment. I'm sure the emails don't go directly to Microsoft, but come on -- what a load of crap. The folks posting this are either working directly or indirectly for MS.
In most cases -- most folks would have to a see a SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE between Zune and iPod to even consider switching. That doesn't exist. Yeah the "share via wi-fi" is unique, that that will only appeal to a very small percentage of the population (and only until they see how Draconian the DRM is).
If you bought at iPod and have dealt with the iTunes experience, you have to ask yourself, is this thing so great to be worth me buying new music just for it. The answer in 99.9% of the cases is no.
Microsoft is not know of making spectacular products. Even their Ver 3 products are just mediocre. Microsoft is about as trendy as a 65 year-old man, and apparently with the same fashion sense (brown? really? brown? You want your product to look like a big turd? I can only pray that wasn't intentional).
Well, no; doubling capacity and shaving off a few millimeters here and there aren't really new features. That's more like marketing and manufacturing common sense... would we buy laptops with no difference from their predecessors other than a slightly smaller body and a bigger hard drive? No, because they'd have nothing *new* to give us, and no compelling reason to upgrade unless we just needed more room.
Adding video support, losslesss support, and gapless support, *those* are new features. And it took them long enough, geez. Even those new feaures haven't changed the iPod experience very much; they're just sorta tacked-on. The main menu for the 5.5G iPod is starting to almost look cluttered with the games and other fairly minimal add-ons; one imagines this is why Apple's players aren't very feature-rich. I don't doubt that Apple is working on a way to address that issue, but until that fabled touchscreen iPod (which, incidentally, I'm not that hyped about... *zero* tactility isn't something that makes for a good user experience if the player is in a pocket or bag) is released, Zune will trump it in look and feel, at least as far as the interface. Those extra little menu animations and customizable backgrounds will speak to a lot of kids out there used to playing with MySpace that want to be different/better than all their iPod-toting friends.
They have blown so many options that would have made Zune a real play that I didn't think it had a chance. For instance, why can’t you DL stuff from their vid site and share those? Or use their Acid knockoff to upload your own band’s tracks to the store similar to homebrew Xbox Live? Worse, as noted, the wi fi isn't really used in a way that would make it really interesting (start with paying people for getting a friend to DL a song!) which is just painful.
However, a couple of spittle flying rants it has inspired in the “I_pod therefore I am” crowd makes me think they might be on to something after all. Why else would you be so angry?
>Apple's "piles" patent application..
As for the "piles" - Microsoft was using stacks like these in early builds of Vista ages ago.
If you want to get serious about "piles" or "stacks", They were used in NeXT OS which was released a long, long time ago. Long before MS was releasing things that didn't look like dead rats. And there current version of "piles", which apple owns a patent on, is EXACTLY 100% a dead on look alike for a 3rd party free mac file browser that has been around since OS 9, and continues to exist... I think it's ugly... but MS didn't come up with that as an original concept or anything... dont' fool yourself.
Does the Zune software have any kind of Podcast support built in? I'm interested in the Zune (like go sell my 5G iPod and buy a Zune interested) but if it doesn't have that I think I'll pass.
Let's be objective about this. First of all, Microsoft is as guilty as any company who wants to try to remain competitive by releasing Zune. Furthermore, I'd be willing to bet that if Microsoft's name wasn't attached to it, I bet a majority of the negative comments would cease. Second, Zune is in it's first generation. How long did it take Apple to get the iPod where it is today? Like any new product, Zune is going to require time to establish itself.Third, I personally find the Zune attractive, particularly the UI which seems more dynamic than the iPod, and the new FM radio/video capabilities. While I've owned 3 different generation iPods, I would be willing to see what Zune has to offer. Lastly, remember that this is a piece of hardware, not a medical procedure or a lifesaving wonder-drug. There is no need for argument. It's my personal belief that whether it's an iPod or a Zune or a Creative Zen, consumers should focus on the progress of mp3 payers, not which one is better.
P.S. I do not work for Microsoft, nor do I work for Apple. I'm just a Rhode Island School of Design student who constantly hears people arguing Mac vs. PC's and iPods vs. Zens, et-cetera et-cetera. and decided to post his two-cents. Thanks for reading.
I've been an iTunes/iPod user for the past five years, and I have to say I'm intrigued by the Zune. Even the Marketplace's interface looks less gaudy than iTunes 7. If they made a Mac version, I would seriously consider switching -- if they had some way to replace all my DRM'd ITS content.
Doesnt this thing run Win Mobile or CE? It screams for some mods if it does.
BTW I would bet cash on some one hacking the wireless to full fuctionality within 2 months after its released
---EARTH TO MS
MS could have taken this thing to the next level by giving it MCE extender capability so you could use audio and video off your MCE box.
I have seen the brown and its not as bad as it seems
I think a bit of competition is a great thing. MS will bring out the Zune, which will force Apple to do bigger and better things.
In the end, the consumer wins.
My God. The apple fanboy-ism on this site just reeks. Doesn't anybody care at all that a new product like the Zune is a positive for us MP3 player-consumers? Nothing less than a positive. If you like your iPod so much: fine, keep it, and leave the Zune to others who would prefer it to the iPod.
And yes Apple has had 5 years to develop the 5.5G iPod, even more than that. Only the immature, uneducated elementary-grade people who seems to frequent this site and rave about their iPods should know that. The 5.5G iPod is the result of all the development, improvements, and marketing that came before it...all the way back to the 5GB 1G iPod in 2001. The whole "iPod experience" that involves iTunes, the accessories, etc. was built over the years begining with 2001.
The Zune is spanking brand new: sure, it's made by Toshiba, but it's not a Gigabeat S knock-off....not like the Hewlett-Packard iPod was a Apple iPod knock-off. The Zune looks to be entirely different from the ground-up: different design, different housing , different screen, different GUI, and different media-management software to use with it. One thing I'm interested in knowing is the sound quality of the Zune. I can't believe Engadget has the thing, but couldn't spend time to comment on the audio compared to other current players they've reviewed.
The biggest 2 things that I note: other MP3 players such as the Cowon iAudio X5, Creative Zen Vision:M, and Toshiba Gigabeat S are solid players that meet or beat the HDD iPod in many features, and are usually less expensive, but they hardly dent the marketing dominance of the iPod because the companies refuse to market their players in the US with any serious degree, so the vast majority of consumers know very little about them. True, the iPod may still win out in the end even if they do advertise, but it's like trying to fight with one hand tied behind your back, before you even start, and it doesn't make sense to me to put yourself in such an unfair competitive position like that. I never see that in any other product market....Microsoft will NOT do that. They will market their Zune probably more or better than Apple markets the iPod. Remember, all you know about MP3 player marketing is the iPod, but Apple's marketing abilities have always been dwarfed by the Microsoft machine.
the second note is Engadget's impressions of the Zune in this review. They seem somewhat impressed by the player, and do not comment too negatively or sarcastically about it, like they always love to do concerning other MP3 players that are not iPods. This reminds me of James Kim of CNET, that iPod hound if there ever was one, suddenly gushing and giggling like a teenage girl over the iriver Clix and Toshiba Gigabeat S, when they came out.
Could this all mean more than someone just getting paid off by a manufacturer?? We'll have to wait and see.........
When will Microsoft stop copying ideas?
I'm guessing right after Apple does. Everyone steals from everyone else in consumer electronics/computing, and we have patent wars to show for it.
The basic look of mp3 players has been surprisingly standard since about 1999 with the Rio PMP 300 [ http://www.amazon.com/Rio-PMP-300-MP3-Player/dp/B00000JBAT ]... I never hear anyone saying Apple ripped it off. Why's MS automatically ripping off Apple? Apple doesn't own the color white any more than they own the mp3 player idea. If the Zune had a click wheel and an interface that looked like Aqua, then maybe we'd be talking copying...
(((((((((
Still can't get over that bezel surrounding the screen and pod wheel looking thingy.... Why? Does not make a design sense to me... It is visually intrusive, and not what I think they were trying for,,,,,, (visual unity?)
)))))))))
My thoughts on style precisely. FMPOV, esthetically, that border does a great job of highlighting the visually incorrect location of the wheel. It looks completely out of balance touching the screen rather than centered in the space below the screen.
IMO no apple designer would ever have considered that to be an acceptable design.
Bigger device size and no scroll wheel are two killer issues, and the trade offs seem like very little in return. A bigger screen has little benefit with hardly any video content available, and the wi-fi download restrictions are such that I'd never bother to use it, even if there WERE someone to do it with.
IMO it's a non-starter
Pete
I am an owner of a 4G ipod, a fan of apple's ipods, PLUS I think the Zune is pretty neat. But I have realized something. I am simply a gadget whore and would like to own every single music player out there. Do I have a problem?
I just realized that the Zune commercials are so non threatening, friendly, full of love and fun. Unlike mac fanboys who'd rather look like a silhouette dancing in their favorate color. I know a few VERY VERY cool mac people and I keep telling them that there are lots of mac extremists who give them a bad rap.
Hardware revision 1 was the gigabeat, have you heard of it.
Zune is a joke
- for many users being able to carry around there entire collection of music is a huge deal and even an 80G mp3 player is not enough... and for some their wallet is the limiting factor for this... i really think you are down playing this, but it's a huge deal for many.. iPod has the features it needs.. that's why i mentioned the saying.. don't fix it if it ain't broke... you really think the designers at apple haven't thought of tonnes of features to put into the iPod... the biggest problem is deciding which features to add, not thinking them up... you said it yourself.. as you add features you add complexity and reduce usability of the product as you move away from the core features of the product... apple is right to stay focused on feature that actually count and not just adding thing just for the heck of it, just because they've though it up and they can so they will.. if MS does this they will fail.. and they already seem to be on the road with this stupid WIFI "feature" that's still looking for a user need...?
- the proliferation of 3rd party product gives users who want features outside of the core features that the iPod provides access to those features (apple actively works with and encourages these vendors).. for instance if you want wireless bluetooth speakers you can have that.. if you want more tactile in pocket or on sleeve control as you have mentioned there are lots of vendors with bluetooth remotes precisely for this purpose.. apple knows what they are doing and they need to stick with.. the market obviously agrees with their approach too..
- the other thing is that Apple is doing this doubling capacity shrinking envelope evolution and turning a profit.. MS isn't...
- kids want to be different, but different in a good way.. not by carrying around a huge brick in their pocket instead of a thin, sleek product... when the one kid pulls out his brick.. i mean his zune and the other kid pulls out his iPod.. the kid with the iPod is going to say hey where did you get that.. a swap meet for 1970 soviet surplus army equipment? the envelope is just too large for the current environment.. it looks outdated even before it's out the door
- i'd agree the GUI looks
- i saw a picture of the screen of the zune and the iPod so they had the same orientation and the really wasn't that much difference
I am on my 3rd iPod (60 gig 5G) and I like it ok. I plan on buying a Zune becuase they look more durable and I like the screen size, user interface and customizability (is that a word?). The screen on the iPod is too small to watch anything longer than a music video. I think it was a good move by MS to go after the "indie" early adopters first rather than the masses like Apple. It will be interesting to see how quickly Jobs announces the widescreen iPod (Nov 16?).
Obviously works flawlessly it is made by Toshiba!!!
Zune Patent Infringement? Taken from another blog:
I am sorry to say just a little disappointed with this forum. Are we not at a Zune development blog? I post a significant issue that strikes at the heart of Zune development and no one seems interested. Here’s another interesting piece I found, I would be interested if someone who is familiar with development of Zune to comment, the could be big news if picked up by a enterprising journalist.
Getting back to E.digital, Atul Anandpura was their CEO in 2005. If you review the application link below you will find several instances where claimed inventive technology is oddly exactly the same as the Zune’s new capabilities with regard to digital media transfer, storage, encryption, and real time clock management thru wireless 802.11.
Examples follow:
“A real time clock operatively connected to the multimedia device can be used to determine the length of time that a digital media file is stored on the digital storage medium.”
“A digital media storage system as in claim 1, further comprising a real time clock operatively connected to the media processor, the real time clock configured to enable the media processor to disable specific digital media files stored on the digital storage medium after a predetermined amount of time.”
“A digital media storage system as in claim 13, wherein one or more specific digital media files are deleted from the digital storage medium after the predetermined amount of time has passed.”
“A method as in claim 15, wherein the step of using a real time clock further comprising the step of using a real time clock operatively connected to the multimedia device, wherein the media processor is configured to disable access to specific digital media files after they have been stored on the digital storage medium for a predetermined amount of time.”
“In another embodiment, digital media files from the media source can be transmitted wirelessly to the multimedia device. A wireless format such as the IEEE 802.11 wi-fi specification can be used. Other wireless formats such as Bluetooth, Zigbee, or Ultrawideband, as described in the IEEE 802.15 specification, can also be used to wirelessly transmit digital media files to the multimedia device. The wireless format can include encryption to enable the transmission to be secure such that the digital media files cannot be easily intercepted by unintended users.”
“In the present invention, a predetermined file format can be used to store the digital media content. The predetermined file format can be configured to be incompatible with the file for mats used by major computer operating systems, such as Windows, Linux, Unix, and Apple's operating system. The predetermined file format can allow digital media content to be saved on the digital storage medium 114 without allowing easy access to the digital storage medium by external devices controlled by these operating systems. Since the predetermined file format is not compatible with the storage format used by these operating systems, the digital media files stored on the digital storage medium can be substantially secure.” (Research E.digital’s MicroOS and Forth language history)
“This assurance can encourage more digital media content providers to allow their products to be transmitted digitally, thus providing a new market for providers to sell their content.” (Zune’s social network, and the hook for the media industry)
“The media processor can be configured to disable specific media content stored on the digital storage medium according to the predetermined amount of time. For example, a media content provider may allow a song to be downloaded for one week. One week after the song has been downloaded the media processor can either disable the song from being played, or optionally delete the song from the digital storage medium. In another embodiment, a media content provider can allow a media file to be downloaded and played a predetermined number of times. The media content provider may allow a media file to be downloaded and played for a predetermined time or for a set number of times when a proper authentication code is not received from the multimedia device. If a propel authentication code is received, the media file may be allowed to be played for a longer duration, or even indefinitely.”
http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-bool.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=Anandpura.IN.&OS=IN/Anandpura&RS=IN/Anandpura
Those skilled in the art, please enjoy.
Do you have to buy a new dock system, a ipod song converter, a different kind of speaker, and a different kind of clock radio (made by Ipod) or can i keep that stuff? I just want to know if the Zune will work in the Ipod clock radio and speakers and the rest of that stuff. Also, will i have to re-buy songs because they are Itunes songs.
I dont know why, but i expected more from microsoft with this player... what a piece of junk!
I will not be replacing my ipod anytime soon... They should rename it PU-me!
:)