CE-Oh no he didn't! Part XVII - Ballmer to Linux users: You owe us

While Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer was taking a break from dealing with cranky users still waiting for Vista, he went ahead and told the entire Linux community that they owe him a big thank-you. Yes, yes he did. In a Q&A session at the Professional Association for SQL Server conference, Ballmer (sans sweat) said that Microsoft signed a deal with SUSE Linux distributor Novell in order to get some money back for its "intellectual property." Among other transactions, the one in question sends $40 million to Microsoft in exchange for Microsoft's promise not to sue Novell over possible patent violations. As to whether or not the SUSE Linux distribution actually infringes upon any patents, Novell's payment appears to be some sort of admission fee, and, according to Ballmer, Linux users owe him a big "thanks." After all, he was just assuring that Microsoft gets the "appropriate economic return for our shareholders from our innovation." Meanwhile, Red Hat called the whole thing an "innovation tax" and plans to protect its customers against any infringement claims by Microsoft, asking Ballmer to go ahead and show us all what part of the Linux kernel infringes upon Redmond's patents. So while Ballmer pens his report, get to it, open-source community -- start writing your thank-you notes.

[Thanks, Neonez]

[Vinn @ Nov 19th 2006 8:40PM]

MAN that picture is creepy. Oh yeah, Ballmer's a douche.

[Sean @ Nov 19th 2006 8:47PM]

I wouldn't be suprised to see this douche bag replaced. What an ugly image.

[Todd @ Nov 19th 2006 8:56PM]

As an Ubuntu user, please allow me...

*UCK YOU Ballmer!

[Mr. Picklesworth @ Nov 19th 2006 8:59PM]

Quite.

[Fallen @ Nov 21st 2006 1:44PM]

as a human... allow me to back that statment... and follow it with a "Mr Microsoft "I hate open source and everything it stands for and every hard working open source coder who gives out there free time, and doesnt ask for ANYTHING back in return" that you sir, should be hung by that which dangles between your legs, and have rotten tomatoes thrown at you!. GOOD DAY!.. Fool.

Actually... this makes them a hypocryte doesnt it? didnt they nick apples source code... back in the day?...

[otakucode @ Nov 19th 2006 9:02PM]

Heh, well if you approach it objectively... Linux is based upon Unix. Unix was developed a long, long time ago. As they moved to becoming the entirely modern operating system that it is today, Linux had to get its ideas from somewhere. They haven't come up with anything original, and everything they have ever done has been done somewhere else first. I know some people will react reflexivly against that idea, and I welcome you to bring to the table any sort of revolutionary innovation I've missed that originiated in Linux. Overall, Linux is very conservative and picks up the best features from other operating systems. Thanks to the current environment where ideas are considered "intellectual property" and trademarked, that's bound to cause some trouble.

[Yem @ Nov 19th 2006 9:23PM]

"They haven't come up with anything original ... bring to the table any sort of revolutionary innovation I've missed"

It's a bit of a jump from "anything original" to "revolutionary innovation". What revolutionary innovations has Microsoft brought? Certainly not a windowed operating system. (hint: it doesn't count if they just bought a smaller company and assimilated their I.P.)

Just saying, how about offering some proof to the contrary before laying down a challenge.

[ElCapitanAmerica @ Nov 19th 2006 9:28PM]

otakucode;

Why don't you give us a list of the revolutionary ideas MS has brought to the table when it comes to operating system architecture and design? Heck, feel free to include computer languages too, and feel free to go up to the Vista if you need to. Please provide a list, thanks!

[Alexander @ Nov 19th 2006 9:36PM]

Since Microsoft basically took the idea from Xerox, we should all be thanking EVERYBODY for being able to devolop similar ideas their own way.

Everybody is just copying everybody else--it's all a matter of what you like the best.

[guilt+1 @ Nov 20th 2006 9:42AM]

Linux is NOT based on UNIX. It was and is a "unix like" OS. Developed from the ground up.

[keith waddington @ Nov 19th 2006 9:02PM]

Hey, be polite

now let's all go buy a zone and help MS have even more power. I mean, deep down they are a very moral, likeable and reasonable company, right?

waddo

[alex @ Nov 19th 2006 9:04PM]

Here's my thank-you letter:

dear microsoft,

I won't be buying Vista.

Love, Alex.

[mike @ Nov 19th 2006 9:14PM]

O damn you really got em there! I,m sure Ballmer isn't going to get any sleep tonight now

[Javaflash @ Nov 19th 2006 9:04PM]

Ballmer, go screw yourself. That's my thank-you note, and I intend to write + mail it.

Sean, I don't just want him gone from Microsoft, I want him to pay for stagnating OS technologies for one decade.

[eM @ Nov 19th 2006 9:15PM]

This is so typical of Linux users:

When the issue is features, Linux is some sort of super-distro that combines the features of Ubuntu, SUSE, Gentoo, and all of Sourceforge.

Whenever the issue is bugs, security or code, Linux is just a kernel.

[Mr. Picklesworth @ Nov 19th 2006 9:28PM]

Makes sense. Linux is a kernel, but it is also /an idea/

When people talk about what Linux can give us, they are talking about Linux in terms of the effect that it has had on free software and the number of Linux distributions there are which use the kernel to build amazing things.

When people are talking about Linux in a more logical manner such as to find bugs or debate the law, they will use the more logical dictionary and refer to Linux as a kernel which runs software that has nothing to do with it.
I think Ballmer got it wrong, though. I will laugh if he doesn't realize.

[... @ Nov 19th 2006 10:00PM]

@ eM
What are you smoking? You do realise that Ubuntu, SUSE, Gentoo are all linux distros that all have their own unique features? Linux isn't a specific program you can download and use, it is the kernel that you can install all of the (probably) millions of programs that people have written on, but since that takes a lot of effort/skill people (or usually groups of people) have written 'distros' that have a bunch of software installed.

To summarise:
linux kernel = dos
ubuntu, fedora, suse, etc = windows, os X, etc bundled with all most of the software you would ever buy
sourceforge = freedownloads.com (minus the viruses, pr0n, and crap)

How Balmer can go and say that a particular distro violates microsoft's patents is beyond me... It is just a collection of software... Maybe he is saying anything with an automated installer or anything that allows you to run >1 program at a time is microsofts intellectual property?

[Alexander @ Nov 19th 2006 9:44PM]

The problem isin't with Linux users: It's with you.

Linux is a Kernel. all the pretty stuff is a Window Manager--of which there are hundreds. GNOME and KDE are the major ones.

Do not confuse the Kernel with the WM. It makes you look silly.

[an_observer @ Nov 19th 2006 9:16PM]

Good for you, Alex. I hope some institutional holders could wake up from their vastly overestimation on Vista sales, factoring in degrees of market saturation. Dilute those floats.

[brandon @ Nov 19th 2006 9:26PM]

He really is a disgusting looking fellow. Like the Penguin from Batman. It's just hard to imagine any kind of integrity in him, especially with his disgusting tongue hanging out.

[suntiger @ Nov 19th 2006 9:49PM]

Now, I despise Microshit as much as the rest of us (and as such, I'll pirate Vista rather than buy it), but way to not actually answer his question except with a counterquestion. He never said that Microsoft was an innovator; he simply questioned whether or not Linux was. I'd actually like to see a core technology that's in Vista or Leopard that originated in GNU/Linux, if you've got one to show me.

That said, I am rather uninformed, and I don't doubt that there are such technologies, but I'd love it if you'd give some examples.

[thuff9999 @ Nov 19th 2006 10:11PM]

i thought Apple ripped off Xerox, then MS ripped off Apple...

[Albert @ Nov 19th 2006 9:45PM]

otakucode is right, if Microsoft has investors who expect to get benefits from Microsoft's huge and great R&D and they do own propietary rights and patents, then I see nothing wrong. America is all about who owns what, and it only applies more to Microsoft, and I find that to be great. Linux developers should start coming up with their own ideas or start writing checks to Microsoft for their intentional idea "borrowing"

[ElCapitanAmerica @ Nov 19th 2006 11:09PM]

----
Now, I despise Microshit as much as the rest of us (and as such, I'll pirate Vista rather than buy it), but way to not actually answer his question except with a counterquestion. He never said that Microsoft was an innovator; he simply questioned whether or not Linux was. I'd actually like to see a core technology that's in Vista or Leopard that originated in GNU/Linux, if you've got one to show me.

That said, I am rather uninformed, and I don't doubt that there are such technologies, but I'd love it if you'd give some examples.
-----
You miss the point. Why do we have to come up with a list of "innovations" for Linux, when one can't really even come up with an easy one for Microsoft. It's not the Linux community using threats of lawsuits to restrain innovation, it's MS.

And Microsoft needs to be clear here, what are the patents in question? They're going to be as vague as possible to scare people away from Linux, instead of competing feature by feature. Yeah, that'll help consumers.

And thanks Miguel de Icaza for your Mono project, people warned you this was going to be a disaster, and you didn't listen. Now look what a mess you've helped create.

[andars05 @ Nov 20th 2006 1:46AM]

Maybe you should look up what Leopards kernel is based on.

[Peter @ Nov 19th 2006 9:50PM]

Give me a freaking break. Microsoft great R&D? They stole practically everything. Linux is just a kernel that mirrors Unix, which predates everything Archaic Windows by decades. Name some of these great ideas if you want to accuse Linux of theft. Name one.

[Stephen B @ Nov 19th 2006 9:52PM]

Sure, I'd be glad to say thanks to Microsoft, thanks for making my decision on whether or not to get Vista alot easier you *ucking *ss holes.

[Andr�s @ Nov 19th 2006 9:52PM]

The only thing MS has been creative is how to effortlessly become the software industry bully. And the term Linux is commonly ued for the kernel (original meaning) as well as the OS (including the different distros that use that kernel), is hard to know about which one was he talking.


BTW (@Alexander): Actually Apple made a deal with Xerox so they can use their research, MS copied the Os in the original Macintosh (things developed by Xerox and by Apple) from some prototypes intended for software development.

[Luke @ Nov 19th 2006 10:01PM]

,,|,, /waves at Microsoft.

/Ubuntu user

[waltPer @ Nov 19th 2006 10:08PM]

I think there are a few considerations.
Novell is one of the few software companies that have survived the Microsoft typhoon.
Novell continues to have many best of breed technologies
Novell was almost destroyed by Microsoft in the past, many times.
By all accounts Microsoft tying the knot with Novell shows some signs of weakness with Microsoft and Novell tying the know with Microsoft does not seem to make much sense. So on both accounts it is not very clear why they really climbed in bed together. The Linux train has already left the station and law suites are not going to stop it.
Novell has been deemed pretty much irrelevant however since this agreement Novell has been getting more press in terms of its relevancy than in many years. Why is this?
Everything that is said about this deal is pure speculation on both the pro and con side. Only time will tell what this, on the surface, irrational "desparate" play will turn into.
Confusing to say the least !

[Veritas II @ Nov 19th 2006 10:11PM]

Your XBox dollars hard at work!

[Zorque @ Nov 19th 2006 10:15PM]

GET ON YOUR FEET
GET UP AND MAKE IT HAPPEN

[cire @ Nov 19th 2006 10:20PM]

I plan on pirating Vista anyways... So screw you MS... Man thats why those geeks at MS need Wifi on Zune to be social. Ugly!

[eM @ Nov 19th 2006 10:35PM]

@...

You might want to work on your reading comprehension.

...and also on your understanding of patent law, but you'll need to work on the former before the latter.

[SweatyTrout @ Nov 19th 2006 10:42PM]

When did engadget become slashdot?? Get back to cameras, cellphones and keyboards. I agree that Ballmer is being a big jerk, but thats what he gets paid for. As long as he is in the headlines keeping discussion sites talking about M$, than he is succeeding.

[Stymie @ Nov 19th 2006 10:51PM]

I agree that Ballmer looks like a piece of crap.

The key question in the article, however, is why did Novell pay Microsoft to not sue them? If there is in fact no violation of Microsoft's patents, why pay at all?

It will be interesting if Red Hat stands up to Microsoft, so any alleged violations can come to light.

[rednerd @ Nov 19th 2006 11:02PM]

Didn't SCO try this a few years ago?!?! Once again Microsoft is late to the market and playing copy cat.

Not to mention MS PAID NOVELL $440 Million and then Novell gave MS a token $40 Mil. for some sort of IP rights.

[nikster @ Nov 19th 2006 11:26PM]

IANAL but I have dealt with patent laws and other laws enough to know that this is about laws and patents and not about justice. Two very different things.

Of curse everyone developing Linux was very careful not to use any proprietary code - because it's open source, this issue is probably more important than any non-open-source projects. Linux definitely didn't steal anything from MS.

But its not about that. It's about a patent system that has gone out of control, and about big corporations like MS patenting everything and anything. That works because the PTO allows pretty much any patent, so the more $ you spend the more patents you get.

Patent infringement suits are extremely difficult to defend against in courts. Especially when there's an expensive army of lawyers behind it.

I do still believe that justice will win out in the end, but you are talking years and years of court action, uncertainty, and business-threatening penalties. Just look at SCO, they had absolutely nothing and made a big stink. MS can do the same thing if they want to. Luckily, Red Hat is big enough to withstand such an onslaught. Smaller distributions would possibly just be forced to close down.

[LJKelley @ Nov 20th 2006 12:13AM]

Microsoft has a right to defend its rights as an patent holder. Obviously Novell agreed with them or they wouldn't have parted with cash... Linux is just the kernel, yes. But today Linux is considered to be a distro and if any part of that distro is patented then that distro must either drop the use of the portion of its distro or they must pay. It has been said because of these ease of adding code to open source, there is beleive to be alot of patent infringements.

I obviously will be getting Vista, as I have it now. 100% Free, thanx to MS (Big Thank You). Being a part of their Beta Test team throught the whole developement of Longhorn, and previously with XP and XP SP2, I was generously given a copy free or charge :)

To those of you who think you can pirate Vista... you are dead wrong. Vista is NOT XP and had much more security including the security of its activation and piracy control.

[ElCapitanAmerica @ Nov 20th 2006 12:25AM]

"Microsoft has a right to defend its rights as an patent holder. Obviously Novell agreed with them or they wouldn't have parted with cash... Linux is just the kernel, yes. But today Linux is considered to be a distro and if any part of that distro is patented then that distro must either drop the use of the portion of its distro or they must pay. It has been said because of these ease of adding code to open source, there is beleive to be alot of patent infringements."

Then MS needs to enumerate those patents, instead of trying to scare the community at large with these deals. And it's very sad that MS has to depend on software patents to fight competition from the Linux world. However, as far as we know, there are no patent violations, and it's MS burden to prove there are any. Without them even delineating a single violation, there's just talking BS.

"I obviously will be getting Vista, as I have it now. 100% Free, thanx to MS (Big Thank You). Being a part of their Beta Test team throught the whole developement of Longhorn, and previously with XP and XP SP2, I was generously given a copy free or charge :)"

Good for you, watch how slow Vista is adopted in corporate America though. Even very large companies are still trying to move to XP (running 2000) so it'll be interesting to see how long it takes them to move to Vista.

"To those of you who think you can pirate Vista... you are dead wrong. Vista is NOT XP and had much more security including the security of its activation and piracy control."

A Beta tester you might be, but you are not highly technical. Vista will be cracked in no time when it's released, you can count on that.

[thunderleg @ Nov 20th 2006 12:23AM]

Since using Firefox's Ad-Block extension for the past year or more, I have blacklisted many a ad-site using the all-encompassing asterix.

Until today I have never had to Ad-Block a single image.

[Terry @ Nov 20th 2006 12:24AM]

Your comments: Does Micro$0ft expect us to believe they have not stolen ideas and code from the Linux community? The Linux community need to file a class action lawsuit against MS for theft as well! We should demand the code for Vista to allow us to see the code that they have stolen.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[Terry @ Nov 20th 2006 12:45AM]

Linux being free and open source, gives Micro$oft full access to the base code to compare to their closed source software. This gives Micro$oft an unfair advantage in claiming IP theft. As a software developer in the open source community for the past 30 years, I wonder how much of my code [if any] has made its way into Microsoft's code base. I have reported bugs to MS in the past, and once or twice an actual patch. Would not the code I supplied to MS [if they used my patch] be mine?

Also, if MicroSoft uses any open source code in their OS or other products that was taken from the open source community, make the OS or application an open source produce?

I program at home because I enjoy it, and being paid to program at work is that much better. But I keep the code separate. I never use code developed on the job with code in my independent programming efforts and vise versa. For obvious reasons. My contract with my employer also specifies this.

[Chris @ Nov 20th 2006 10:08PM]

"if MicroSoft uses any open source code in their OS or other products that was taken from the open source community, make the OS or application an open source produce?"

not nessicarily. for instance, the TCP stack in Win95 was based on the BSD tcp stack (and has copyright atributions to BSD as well) but the BSD license allows for commercial dirivitives so no foul there.

[WMichaelPoff @ Nov 20th 2006 1:25AM]

Steve Ballmer is ugly because he epitomizes the ugliness of the company (microsoft) and it's take no prisoners approach to market domination. And the fact that he has money doesn't make him better than anyone. It just makes him uglier. I am not a technically astute guy but, I have become passionate about computing and especially internet connectivity. To me, microsoft is what keeps us all back from a better computing experience. Because of their monopoly on the Op. Sys. in the world of PC they hold back the free markets ability to continue delivering innovation.
It is microsoft's intimidation tactics that are anti-free market: the fact that Steve Ballmer and microsoft have a lot of money and can scare people with the army of lawyers their money can buy. But, I think, that. just like the break up of Ma Bell into baby bells, other forces that seek fairness and equity in the markets will force a change that will mean a freer market and the monster that Microsoft is will be chained. And it is the Googles and Yahoos and other forces that are uniting to fight the battle for more innovation and a freer market who will show the way. Personally (it's a Psychological thing=I know microsoft has planned it) everytime I have a problem with my computer (XP operating system) I curse Microsoft. I have quit using Internet explorer (I like mozilla and not because it is better(it probably is better but I could can't articulate technologically speaking why it is) but because it isn't microsoft) except that Microsoft forces me to in order to get updates from it's web site. The list goes on. And, I think there are many other users of Microsofts products that feel the same way. And, someday the big bully that microsoft is will get knocked down. There seems to be some universal rules about getting what you deserve in the end. I would really like it if Linux was available in a open the box and use kind of a way and was supported by all the software that I can get so easily to make my computing enjoyable, effortless for the most part. And, that said, I do credit Microsoft for some of this ease of use. But, I hate monopolies and I know that it could be better. Anyway, just some random thoughts from non-techy me.

[suntiger @ Nov 20th 2006 1:25PM]

Okay, that's a pretty valid example, except that Leopard is built on Darwin, which is based on BSD, not on Linux. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Unix.svg , Leopard and Linux are related, but neither is descended from the other. Anything more direct? And keep in mind what I'd really like to hear is something that's in Windows that started in Linux, because I don't know of any, while I can probably think of several that are in OSX.

[mark @ Nov 20th 2006 2:27AM]

what a whiney bunch of wankers you lot are. You whinge about Microsoft stifling OS development, how they protect their IP, how they make money even how Balmer looks. And it seems only as justification to use pirate copies of their software or should I say steal their software. If any of you had any backbone rather than sitting there pulling on your 2 inch dicks you would not even bother installing Windows or write your own OS (highly unlikely since the only thing you are capable of is whining).
And btw, before commenting on someones looks (which has nothing to do with any argument) take a good long look in the mirror at yourselves, are you the prettiest face around or do you look like a dogs arse with a turd stuck in it ?

[Scooter @ Nov 20th 2006 2:31AM]

Engadget is winding us up. Mr Ugly is an easy pull for chatter and this blog has lately been throwing out transparent invites to fill its pages with squawk.
So add mine, for what it's worth.

[John Doe @ Nov 20th 2006 2:41AM]

Ballmer go back to your tree you chair throwing retard of an ape. Ballmer..the missing link between man and ape. Seriously have you seen this man walk? I swear he would prbably do better swinging threw the trees. For you see he mistook that chair as a tree branch to beat this competition with.

Oh and as an FYI for all of you looking for stock tips. By Microsoft. Ballmer will be introducing fire to the masses next week. If you get close enough to him you can hear him grunt about it right now.

Idiot. I wish he would shut his grunt hole, resign, and let someone with a clue run the company. Or at least someone who doesn't make a complete fool out of himself.

[Mischa Lockton @ Nov 20th 2006 2:44AM]

"Now, I despise Microshit as much as the rest of us (and as such, I'll pirate Vista rather than buy it)"

If you really despise them go use another option. I don't think it is so easy to rationalize stealing their product- often they don't originate but they do collect cool technologies and make them ubiquitous...

So go use Linux or a Mac but if you use Vista, pay for it!
They will do their best to make sure you don't get updates if your COA is not legit- can you blame them?