Sony begrudgingly promises fix for PS3 720p output issues

Apparently Sony's kicking off an early Thanksgiving break tomorrow, as they seem to be exhausting themselves today in preparation. After breaking the news that PSP Spots are US bound, floating the PSP 3.0 firmware out, and probably dealing with that massive invoice they just received from Thomas Menino and friends, the company is issuing a quasi-promise that the 1080i / 720p output problems plaguing some distraught PS3 owners will be fixed. Interestingly enough, Sony places a slightly unbelievable amount of blame on "antiquated HDTVs," as if having an HDTV that supports 720p is some sort of hidden requirement to operate a PlayStation 3. While we fully understand that most HDTV sets purchased today will indeed play nice with 720p signals, where's the love for folks who snagged those first generations sets produced by yours truly? According to Sony, a fix is on the way, but it doesn't sound like you'll be getting served with a smile.

[minus_273 @ Nov 21st 2006 4:39PM]

"where's the love for folks who snagged those first generations sets produced by yours truly"


"yours truly" I dont think you know what that means. Unless you produce HDTVs that is.

[Charlie @ Nov 21st 2006 5:05PM]

He means "sony" when he says yours truly, it is a way of joking, u know ? ha ha

[Rob Rullo @ Nov 21st 2006 4:36PM]

Shouldnt have this been tested befor it was released.. Sony does make tv's right? wouldnt it be somewhat useful to test atleast on their own HD set.. friggin idiots over there.

[Colin @ Nov 21st 2006 4:33PM]

Well, in defense of Sony, I've had HDTV sets since pretty early on (2001) and have never had a set that COULDN'T do 720p. Nor was I buying top-end TVs.

At the same time, it seems like a stupid bug so I'm glad they're fixing it.

Interesting side note? The Xbox1 had the same problem. I used to work at MSFT and I remember hearing the same thing from one of the xbox support guys over lunch.

-Colin

[TS @ Nov 21st 2006 4:33PM]

Sony should really just start having Ken Kutaragi kick a baby at every Sony press conference, and attach a picture of him kicking a baby to every press release. This way, Sony can forego the silly excuses and consumers can still gain a clear understanding of Sony's mindset.

[TVGenius @ Nov 21st 2006 4:35PM]

This from the maker of the antiquated HDTVs... nice. Guess if you don't like the downconversion you could always get a Wii, throw the Wiimote through the screen and get a new TV.

[evilfixx @ Nov 21st 2006 5:07PM]

Can we stop bashing Sony for just one second? I don't read crap on the numbers of Wii that had no OS on them, and seems like y'all are putting the whole Wiimote straps thing under the rug. Microsoft went through this crap last year, so let's give them a little break. I can understand a little bitterness from people about Sony's gameplan, but can we all get a grip and give them some time to iron out the issues... no wait... Endgaget seems to enjoy this...

[robotrock @ Nov 21st 2006 5:15PM]

evilfixx,

I don't think its the fact Sony has "issues" that makes us all poke fun at them. Its how they choose to react to those issues.

They act like children, we act like children.

[Matt B. @ Nov 21st 2006 4:49PM]

Colin, AFAIK, the original Xbox only went up to 720p... maybe the dash went to 1080i, but I never saw a game higher than 720 and most were only 480p (lucky to even be widescreen)

[Derrick @ Nov 21st 2006 4:55PM]

the dashboard on original xbox only went up to 480i... there were a few games on xbox1 that went up to 1080i... Dragon's Lair was one of the ones that I can remember.

see graphics portion of this review for proof:
http://xbox.ign.com/articles/378/378116p2.html

ps - game sucked

[Derrick @ Nov 21st 2006 4:39PM]

Sony, you are second to the Next Generation Console Party and second to the treating your next gen customers like crap party as well.

http://forums.xbox.com/7864073/ShowPost.aspx

[Castle @ Nov 21st 2006 4:41PM]

>>Interesting side note? The Xbox1 had the same problem.

The 360 has the same issue over VGA, but not component. This is because the 360 has an analog scaler and cannot scale images over digital outputs, the however PS3 doesn't have any scaler at all.

If and when the 360 gets HDMI they will need to figure out how to scale digitally, but most HDTVs these days have a scaler built into them, all old Sony TVs that couldn't do 720p had them, however several Panasonic and Phillips "HD Monitors" lacked scalers as well as many CRT projectors (But you shoudln't be using CRT projection for gaming anyway due to image retention).

[TS @ Nov 21st 2006 4:45PM]

$600 PS3 doesn't work with your $4,000 HDTV? The TV is obviously defective. Buy a shiny new Sony HDTV, kids!

[Andir3.0 @ Nov 21st 2006 4:47PM]

Engadget: How did you read "begrudgingly" out of that quote?

I think it's awesome that they plan on fixing it for such a "minor(?)" group of people. My older HDTV supports some interesting resolutions including 540p (which I think is line-consolidated 1080i) and it's just hit it's 3 year birthday. Perhaps someone can drop a list of a few TVs affected by this "problem"?

[John @ Nov 21st 2006 4:53PM]

I've got one of the (Sony) TV's in question. Supports 1080i, but not 720p. XBR 300 or something like that, bought almost exactly 6 years ago. I don't have a PS3, which makes me happy as I would be one PO'd user right now.

[GG @ Nov 21st 2006 4:56PM]

I used to have one of the 40" Sony XBR TVs (the big tube model)--awesome television, but it didn't display 720p. Maybe the models they have out now can do 720p, but Sony shouldn't forget about their past customers.

[rugah @ Nov 21st 2006 6:45PM]

Path of Neo would go upto 1080i i think on the orig xbox.

[Lisel @ Nov 21st 2006 5:01PM]

I'm glad that they're gonna fix it so 720p games are upconverted, but I'm a little ticked at Sony for saying that my 46-inch SONY CRT RPTV which is barely 3 years old and cost me about $1,600 is antiquated because it supports 1080i and not 720p. It works just swell with the Xbox 360 and Wii I bought within the past two weeks, and I don't plan to upgrade for at least another couple of years. I think I'll pass on the PS3 for now, till the kinks are worked out and maybe the price drops $100 or so (since I believe I also have to factor in the cost for an HDMI-to-DVI cable).

[Kamalot @ Nov 21st 2006 7:27PM]

"Sony shouldn't forget about their past customers"

If they do, they are likely to find that there aren't any customers left at all.

[tzhuge @ Nov 21st 2006 5:04PM]

From what I've heard, many older HD-CRT and projection sets support 1080i but not 720p

[sycks @ Nov 21st 2006 5:11PM]

Wow i kinda just want to reply to everyone's post who obviously didn't read the original article and just took Engadget's slant for the truth...

So i'll do it here....

"Sony is working on a fix for sets that lack 720p

A number of reports have been circulating on the Internet recently, suggesting that Sony's new PlayStation 3 has encountered problems displaying high-definition visuals on HDTV sets that do not support 720p. Today Sony Computer Entertainment America confirmed the problem to GameDaily BIZ:

"A small number of older High Definition television sets found in the United States only have 1080i inputs for HD signals. Those televisions will currently only play some PS3 titles at 480p resolution. PS3 games render images at either 720p or 1080p for High Definition, and you need 720p input on the TV to play select games that do not support 1080p. This is an issue on the side of the individual television sets, which do not accept 720p input, so when a game outputs an HD signal only at 720p, these select TVs have to display the game at 480p instead."

The SCEA spokesperson went on to assure us that Sony is working on a solution."

Now you don't even have to click to read.

My TV a Samsung of 4 years back is like this, either 480i/p or 1080i, and guess what its because I bought a TV with an HD scaler, therefore its an HD-Ready monitor and nothing more.

[sycks @ Nov 21st 2006 5:16PM]

I meant without an HD scaler

[Joe SMith @ Nov 21st 2006 5:37PM]

I am sure glad it is the TV's fault. That makes me feel LOT'S better!

[sw @ Nov 21st 2006 5:42PM]

yawn - won't picking up a ps3 until the first price drop anyways ; )

[Jeff @ Nov 21st 2006 5:47PM]

"$600 PS3 doesn't work with your $4,000 HDTV? The TV is obviously defective."

It, in fact, is.

What if you bought a radio that could only play FM frequencies above 100? Would you complain to a station broadcasting on 92.3 that they don't support your radio?

If a so-called "HDTV" does not support ATSC standard HDTV resolutions, it *is* the TV that's defective. And the vast majority of TV's - including my $600 Samsung CRT - will display 720p just fine (at 1080i if necessary). *They have to* in order to be called HDTV's. (Any TV that does not is technically *not* an HDTV, just as any CD that does not include redbook audio is not technically a CD.)

So, I guess kudos to Sony for going the extra mile here, but it *is* your TV that's the problem, not the PS3.

[Jon @ Nov 21st 2006 6:11PM]

" If a so-called "HDTV" does not support ATSC standard HDTV resolutions, it *is* the TV that's defective. "

Wow. It's so unfortunate that you believe so. By your definition since 1080p is listed as one of the ATSC standards for HDTV resolutions...then about 95% or more of all TV sets are not HDTV's. Maybe Sony should just output only in 1080p then and tell us all that it's our outdated TV sets that are the problem???

Every major provider of High Definition Hardware up until this point has provided consumers with the flexiblity of 720p and 1080i outputs for consumer televisions to work with. But somehow Sony is too high brow to support 1080i output for gameplay and 720p output for Blu-Ray movies.

[Bob @ Nov 21st 2006 5:54PM]

Who really cares who they blame just as long as they fix the problem.

[Jon @ Nov 21st 2006 6:00PM]

I cannot believe the level of ignorance out there on this matter. Don't believe Sony's hype in blaming folks TV sets. HDTV is defined as 720p, 1080i and 1080p. If Sony does not support any one of these modes...then they are the ones with the problems. I'll remind everyone that the Xbox 360 supports all of the above just fine and through a component cable no less. This is Egg on Sony's face. There are thousands upon thousands of HDTV sets out there that accept only 1080i input and not 720p. And most sets today still don't accept 1080p at all. Anyone with a CRT or Rear Projection TV set is likely to have 1080i default. My Sony KW-34HD1 only accepts 1080i. And so does my friends CRT based 34" Panasonic that he just bought only a year ago just before Christmas. This affects Thousands upon Thousands of TV sets.

And fixing the no support for 1080i doesn't fix the other major problem.
And that is that Blu-Ray movies in 1080i and 1080p cannot be downconverted to 720p! Almost every flat panel LCD or Plasma screen is native 720p. For those folks whos TV's don't have internal conversion...the PS3 will down rez to 480p!!! Yikes!!! That's no where near High Def and in fact is normal DVD quality. Does Sony blame the TV's on this fowlup as well?

Screw Sony if they think they can tell thousands of people their TV is obselete! "Tru High Def" is not 1080p. True High Def is 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. Among these resolutions 720p and 1080i are by far the most widely used. If you receive an HDTV signal over the air, cable or satelitte...you are watching 720p and 1080i signals. Only the new HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movie formats use 1080p. Don't belive Sony's hype.

And it's well known that for a TV set smaller than 55"...even videophiles will be hard press to tell a difference between 1080i and 1080p.

[sycks @ Nov 21st 2006 6:13PM]

You sir are an idiot. Sorry had to be said. Take a ride on the Reading Railroad and learn something before posting. Then again I doubt that will happen and this post is all for naught. Oh well, here's to hoping!

[scooter @ Nov 21st 2006 6:16PM]

:) you beat me to my post. HDTV is in 1080i and 720P. Most are in 1080i.

Also, the biggest factor in a television is not the resolution, but color rendition. So, your nice new tv with 1080p does not look as good as my "antique" sony 34xbr960. Sure I only have 720p but thats all i need since NO television shows are in 1080p and most hd movies are 1080i or 720p.

the difference between 720p and 1080p on MOST televisions is not discernable. The only reason to get a television with 1080p is the resolution when using it with a computer.

[Andir3.0 @ Nov 21st 2006 6:16PM]

You apparently missed the fact that they said they are fixing it via a software update?

"Oh noes!!! It didn't ship with the support, therefore it's flawesed!!"

I wish I had the time to look up your reaction to any of the Microsoft enhancements via Live updates. I'm sure you were happy for those.

BTW, I have a rear projection that is 3 years old that supports 480i/480p/540p/720p/1080i. I unlike many of these others decided to pay a good bit of cash for my TV and I benefit from that decision later (except the lack of 1080p) as oppposed to those making un-informed purchases based solely on price alone. If you buy a cheap TV, your going to get what you pay for. Deal with it. (for the SHORT period of time it takes to PATCH it.)

[RogueStorm @ Nov 21st 2006 8:21PM]

The point I'm missing every time someone comes in and says, "My TV doesn't support 720p, but it scales to 1080i..." is this. If the PS3 downscales to 480p because it can't do 720p, how exactly does it matter if your TV takes the 480p signal and upscales it to 1080i? It's that like running a computer monitor at 640x480 and displaying it on a 20" LCD that has a native display of 1600 x 1200? So your TV can basically stretch a 480p signal to a 1080i display, that still equals a native resolution of 480p going into the scaler. Last I checked, a scaler simply "stretches" the input material to fit and cleans it up a little. You're still not getting hi-def textures and the detail that a native 1080i input would display. Am I not getting something here? Because this is a common argument on this matter so far

[sycks @ Nov 21st 2006 6:16PM]

Looks like someone has their panties in a bunch... or maybe that's sand in there. Gotta love anti-sony bashing for the sake of bashing. Do you feel like more of a man now?

[Jon @ Nov 21st 2006 7:01PM]

No I didn't miss that at all...It's just that Sony isn't going to get a free pass on this one. This is such a rediculous error on their part and I am just trying to highlight that fact regardless of whether or not some day they will fix it. This should not have been a problem from day one and them trying to pass it off as a problem with everyone's TV sets is just innapropriate and frankly I find their lies to be repulsive.

[Voice of Reason @ Nov 21st 2006 11:24PM]

"You apparently missed the fact that they said they are fixing it via a software update?"

Sigh. I can't believe I have to do this yet again, but here goes. Andir, please read the below out loud. Slowly. Repeatedly.

Sony lies.

Sony LIES.

Sony L-I-E-S, LIES.

There is absolutely no correlation between Sony's statements and reality. Okay? Sony lies. They're liars. They're lying liars telling lies. Their pants are on fire. If Kutaragi were Pinnochio, his nose would pose a flight hazard to aircraft and even satellites.

Sony lies.

Sony lies.

Sony lies.

Okay, now take a deep cleansing breath. Close your eyes and envision the words "SONY LIES" blazing in bright white letters. Open your eyes, then read this again. And again. Repeat until you realize that the fact is that SONY LIES.

[Bo @ Nov 22nd 2006 5:39PM]

Jon,

I totally agree with you. HDTV standards are 720p, 1080i and 1080p. It makes no sense for Sony to support only two of the three standards.

Here is an analogy I can think of for future users - I have a Sony XBR1 60" Projection TV that support "1080p" but does not accept 1080p INPUT. If for example, Sony decides to make the PS4 to output only 1080p, I'd be screwed and anyone else with HDTV that support maximum 1080i input.

No argument here, Sony needs to fix this debacle.

[khaash @ Jan 4th 2007 9:54PM]

I bought a 65 inch Mitsubishi Diamond Rear CRT 3 years ago. It costs several thousand dollars. A 3 year old set is old? Go figure. Sad Sony...sad...pathetic Sony...

[SuicideNinja @ Nov 21st 2006 6:27PM]

Castle...VGA carries an analog signal, not a digital one. That's why we're not seeing DVI/HDMI cables right away with the Xbox 360.

"$600 PS3 doesn't work with your $4,000 HDTV? The TV is obviously defective. Buy a shiny new Sony HDTV, kids!"

Seriously...good one!

Um, I bought my HDTV this year and it doesn't support 720p directly. It's 8 months old, but then again, it doesn't even have DVI. Naturally, I wouldn't have bought it if I had known that. But the price was pretty good, still, and it works with the 360 great. I like the picture better than the CRT and LCD HDTV's in the house.

[Dave @ Nov 21st 2006 7:53PM]

Funny ... my "antiquated" TV has a big Sony label on the front of it. 'course I have no plans to buy a PS3 ... haven't bought a single Sony product since their DRM debacle.

[EMSS @ Nov 21st 2006 8:32PM]

And to think that I already went out and bought a new 52" Samsung LCD that takes 1080P. Please don't tell my wife about this fix.

[nikster @ Nov 21st 2006 10:17PM]

Why's everyone bashing Sony?

I think it's the arrogance ("we install DRM on everyone's machines because you our customers are all pirates and we know it and feel we have the right to fsck with your systems now") paired with technical incompetence (PS3 ships late, with boatloads of bugs, and features that would have been cool 3 years ago).

So, yeah, Sony does deserve all the bashing it gets because they are part of the *IAA-axis-of-evil, and they had an awesome product (PS1) and a good product (PS2) and we would so much have liked to have another awesome product but it's not going to happen. Amen. XBox360.

The only thing that keeps Sony alive is their excellent industrial design department. And Spider-Man.

[sycks @ Nov 21st 2006 10:25PM]

The problem arises when early HDTV's that were actually HD-Ready monitors. They do not have a scaler built-in and they need the actual input signal to be 1080i.

Mind you its also not the PS3 HARDWARE that doesn't support 1080i, because it does. Read the labels on the box, better yet search around the web for how the problem was found.

TV's set to 1080i would display the Cross Media Bar and Media played in it (pics, mpegs) but when it switched into game mode or Blu-ray mode, if the TV didn't support 720p the games made in 720p would run in 480p. Same goes for movies. Thats not to say games rendered in 1080i do not play in 1080i.

BTW 1080i is two 540 line fields interlaced. While 720p is actually a 720 line field.

Also SONY never said "antiquated" Engadget did, read the article.

[JBDragon @ Nov 22nd 2006 2:04AM]

Sony Lies a whole hell of a lot. I read their statement, it basically blamed anyone with a HDTV that didn't work at 720P. Well every other HD Device made to be plugged into a HDTV works!

Maybe people wouldn't be bitching as much if SONY didn't say how HD Gaming wasn't coming until the PS3 was released, and yet, NO HD cables in the Box, and this stupid problem, which also affect me and my almost 3 year old Mitsubishi CRT Rear Projection set. The 360 is more of a HD console then the PS3! Bash MS all you want, but they don't Over Promise and Under deliver on their Consoles like SONY does. They did the same BS with the PS2. Doesn't anyone care? So far it seems like few people do, and Lie after lie seems to work, so why ever tell the truth?

Sony fixing this problem? They may say they're working on it, but in reality they're hoping people will start to forget about it, and then they won't worry about it. Old News. Time to lie on something else.

The DRM on the Music CD's, that was pretty Bad also. How about the Sony's Fake Movie Critic Hyping Bad Sony Movies? They got a BIG FINE on that one. If that's not outright Lying, what is?

[xtr@d3r420 @ Nov 22nd 2006 2:21AM]

I have PS3 & Mitsubishi rear projection HDTV that lacks 720p. Blue-ray discs play 1080i but launch games such as Resistance FOM only play 480p. Truly unacceptable they better have this resolved by Christmas or once again Nintendo will reclaim the holy grail of gaming.

[Jeremy @ Nov 22nd 2006 10:20AM]

I would say to Sony's comment of "This is an issue on the side of the individual television sets." Then fix my damn TV. Sony KV-36XBR400 bought originaly for $3,600 (not cheap, and top of the line at the time) only takes 480i, 480p, and 1080i input. 720p is not accepted. Check the manual, page 42. http://www.docs.sony.com/release/KV32XBR400.PDF
"A small number of older High Definition television sets found in the United States only have 1080i inputs for HD signals." Several models of SONY TVs have this condition so are they saying that a small number of people buy Sony TVs? I think the Sony press department should really try and understand what is going on before they try to minimize the problem because either way I look at it, they owe me a fix!

[davis @ Nov 22nd 2006 5:36PM]

I just bought a Sony Wega HDTV last week, and it would be affected by this problem if I had a PS3.

Sony 30" Wide Screen Flat CRT Tube HDTV** (KV30HS420) only does 480i/480p, 960i, & 1080i.

I bought it for trinitron wega goodness, and the fact it does an amazing job with non-HD programming / DVDs without an upscaler.

[E71 @ Nov 23rd 2006 3:50PM]

Go to hell limey. I don't how the hell Sony ended up with you as its CEO.

[Copperhead @ Nov 24th 2006 1:25AM]

Why is anyone surprised when Sony plays the arrogance card?

They are relying on a (shrinking) base of Sony fanboys and Blu-Ray adopters who wouldn't mind gaming to sell the PS3.

I had two PS1's, played the first one to death. I had a PS2, also done in through over-use. The chances of me buying a PS3, even with a price parity with the 360 or Wii are nil.

I don't mind companies tooting their own horn or making light of the odd problem, but Sony take their hyperbole to the moon and lie through their teeth.

I don't know anyone who actually intends to buy a PS3, despite all of my gamer friends being PS2 fans. Go figure.

[rrenna @ Nov 24th 2006 1:58PM]

I'd just like to point out that as of December 2005 (when I bought my CRT) Panasonic CRT's still didn't accept 720p, I don't know when they eventually implemented it but I bought mine less then a year ago... has HDMI... no 720p

[rrenna @ Nov 24th 2006 1:59PM]

I'd also like to add that they edited the article:

"Sony has contacted us to let us know that they may have spoken a bit prematurely. SCEA's Dave Karraker, Sr. Director, Corporate Communications, informed GameDaily BIZ that they currently cannot confirm that this 1080i issue will be resolved via a firmware patch. The official line is now that they are "looking into the issue and haven't stated any actions that will be taken regarding it." "