Chilean Mapuche Indians suing Microsoft

Now, normally you'd think localizing software into languages -- either worldwide or indigenous -- would be a Good Thing, but apparently that isn't the case for the Chilean Mapuche Indians. Representing some 400,000 Mapuzugun-speaking south Chileans, Mapuche tribal leaders are pursuing a case against Microsoft for the "intellectual piracy" of releasing Windows translated in their native tongue. Granted, these people aren't exactly being forced to buy Windows or anything but you'd think Microsoft doing the legwork wouldn't arouse this kind of ire -- after all, they've already supposedly translated Windows into Mohawk, Quechua and Inuktitut, among other native languages. We're not so sure we'd be so fast to take a company renowned for its storied reputation of litigiousness -- like Microsoft, for example -- to court over translating software (or a book, or a movie, etc.) into a somewhat obscure tongue, but hey, just think of what all those Gates bucks can do for your local tribe.

[Thanks, Karl]

[Nick @ Nov 25th 2006 9:09PM]

I wish I had a tribe.

[Zhoe Garcia @ Nov 25th 2006 9:16PM]

Ryan, you sooo photoshopped that hat on that lady (3rd from left)

what's a tribe doing on a pc? they should have their tribe membership token revoked.

[Dave95 @ Nov 25th 2006 9:25PM]

Sue them for the 'Windows virus' spreading through the tribe!

[HD @ Nov 25th 2006 9:33PM]

This lawsuit is ridiculous. I didn't know you can compyright a language.

[Giosue @ Dec 7th 2006 10:52PM]

It's not about copyrighting a language, it's about MS's assumption that their culture needs MS. What they are doing is basically appropriating their language. No one asked Microsoft, it's presumptious.

[Mike @ Nov 25th 2006 9:34PM]

I would like a piece of the pie over here too, thanks.

mmm, good pie.

[Pc_Madness @ Nov 25th 2006 9:42PM]

How the hell can they sue Microsoft for making a version of Windows in their language? They don't own it..

[Michael Parker McEachern @ Nov 25th 2006 9:45PM]

they own their language.

[JP Oyarzun @ Nov 25th 2006 9:54PM]

I'm Chilean (but not mapuche), so i have the source nearer... The Mapuches aren't suing MS for intelectual piracy or something like that. THIS IS WRONG!. The real cause of the sue is that the Mapuche Tribe did'nt take part in the process, so MS screwed it all, and the thing was awfully bad translated. So the mapuches considered this work offending and now they are suing MS for violate their culture or something like that...

[anon @ Nov 26th 2006 3:43AM]

Well according to CNN, they sent a letter to Gates accusing him of intellectual piracy.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/23/technology/microsoft_chile.reut/?postversion=2006112311

[aidhoss @ Nov 25th 2006 10:03PM]

Has it occurred to anyone here that the Machupe people have the right to regulate the use of their own language? Speakers of English and other european languages of course cannot empathise with this because we see language merely as a means of communication and not as an essential and inherent aspect of identity.
For many of the world's indigenous people, modernisation has meant the destruction of much of their culture,usually because it is offensive to 'civilisation'. Language is something that they've been allowed to keep and I support their efforts to protect it.
Also, Microsoft's developing software in this language isn't necessarily the best thing for such a language. Mohawk, Quechua and Inuktitut may have allowed it, but that is their business. If the Mapuche don't want Microsoft to use their language then Microsoft should respect that.
As far as the ability to copyright a language goes, well, of course there are problems with that. But western concepts of 'law' aren't necessarily by customary law and usually a balance between the two is required.
An inherent part of customary law in most indigenous cultures is that language is identity and is 'owned' inasmuch as it is intellectual property. Of course it is impossible to identify someone as having 'invented' the language, but rather it evolves over many centuries, passed down from generation to generation. In this respect, the current Mapuche people, the direct descendents of all former people involved in the evolution of the language, are its owners. I'm sure they would be highly offended by a western courtroom telling them that they cannot 'own' their language and that Microsoft may do as they please.
Jane Simpson, brilliant Australian linguist, has a great post about the problem of language ownership in an Australian setting, over at the transient cultures blog.
Basically, I think it's very bigoted to refuse an indigenous group of people the right to regulate the use of their own language by outsiders, and certainly very offensive to think that they just want money out of Microsoft.
-Aidhoss

[fingerbanger @ Nov 25th 2006 10:04PM]

Damn Indians always trying to get a free handout. Fist land, then taxes, Casinos, now Microsoft. I wish I was more then 5% Indian!

[aidhoss @ Nov 25th 2006 10:08PM]

The url of the blog I mentioned above is http://blogs.usyd.edu.au/elac and mine is http://aidhoss.wordpress.com
Send your hate mail in my direction!!

[Claudius @ Nov 25th 2006 10:16PM]

As far as I know, this XP translation was being implemented in some schools which allow Mapudungun as their main language due to the amount of Mapuche kids. I read a review which stated that the translation was, sometimes, hard to understand.
However, I see this as a frivolous issue. I know I'm not even close to know the details concerning this translation, but it looks like instead of providing feedback and helping making a better translation, the Mapuche leaders are just taking an incorrect course of action by suing. But I'm no one to tell this, it's just my uninformed take. Maybe Microsoft isn't paying attention.

The Mapuche are a minority here in Chile, much like native "races" in the United States (yet most of us are of really really mixed blood, not only in Chile but generally speaking in South America). Even though there are social connotations concerning the roots of some people here, there are ways the government is trying to use to integrate the Mapuche, and Mapudungun speaking schools are part of it. Using WinXP in such language is a good measure, and there should be more interest in delivering a product that works fine in a certain language (I know I bitch every time my software isn't written or translated correctly), but given the nature of this version, a bigger integration of the Mapuche community should be of use to them.

As for the "alcohol" comment, one would think that people in Engadget wouldn't go to such levels of rhetoric, right? Right?

[Dave @ Nov 25th 2006 10:18PM]

They're die-hard Mac users.

[Dom @ Nov 25th 2006 10:43PM]

Actually, im from Chile too, and if you've paid attention to what have happened the last year with Mapuches being all over the news, trying to get money out of what they see moving, you'll understand the point that suing Microsoft, aint really because of the "WE DIDNT TOOK PART OF THE PROCESS THATS WHY WE SUE", its because of Money..., its simple as that...

What if they would have been offered to take part of the process?, you think it would have been free by them and said "Oh yeah! thats a fine idea! lets do it!!!", not really...

The Lawsuit its really stupid, i really hope it goes out soon, its really sad that our country appear on international news because of this bullshit, its kind of pissing me off (im commenting on every site that i visit that have this news...)

Also, every time that they get to say something, its "We're being excluded", HELL, WHICHEVER ATTEMPT TO INCLUDE EM WILL INCLUDE A LAWSUIT!?!?!, its stupid!

[Claudius @ Nov 25th 2006 11:02PM]

I applaud your sense of fairness.
Both your English and your attitude are a gratifying joke. And so is your ignorant overreaction.

[Justin @ Nov 25th 2006 10:46PM]

Embrace and extend Mapuzugun!

[Davy de verteuil @ Nov 25th 2006 10:56PM]

[Thanks, Karl] For What?
First let me point out the stereo type here- Above and the rudeness that goes with it- What do you mean by obscure tongue?
You Westerners patent drugs that saves lives and some that even kill. Now! where did the natural resources came from that composed your medicines- if that's what you call it? You sell it yet refrain us from reproducing it for your sake of big bux-isn't it? And not that you care.
I don�t think the MICROSOFT cares for any one but American-white if you please.
Racist! Not because you were colonized or a colonizer makes those that speak different obscure.
Your article sucks and boardersnon bigotry.

[Karl @ Nov 26th 2006 10:45AM]

wow, there's really been some extreme reaction to this.

Fact is, it's an absurd thing to sue over. If the quality isn't good, it's fair game to complain and work with the offender to correct the problems. Vowing to take this up to and beyond the Supreme Court is ludicrous. Also, you cannot hold the intellectual property rights on a language. Just as commonly used words (think "Blue" in Blu-Ray) cannot be patented, so to are languages exempt.

Saying that Microsoft is racist is equally absurd. Not only do they employ people in all parts of the world, of all ethnic backgrounds, but their facilites for ethnic minorities and women are amazingly good.

Let's look at Microsoft's ranking on the "best company to work for" site in Latin America:
- Argentina: 6
- Brazil: 9
- Chile: 7
- Mexico: 13
- Peru: 9

As you can see, they're a pretty darn good company to work for in Latin America, so don't go off on unfounded claims that they're racist. Source for all data: http//www.greatplacetowork.co.uk

-Karl

[Mark @ Nov 25th 2006 11:02PM]

Here: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003820.htm is a linguisits take on the situation.

[Dom @ Nov 27th 2006 5:30AM]

Probably my english isnt the best.
But you know that the Lawsuit has something behind, not just the public reason that has been given.

[Mr. B @ Nov 25th 2006 11:03PM]

Why don't they just open a casino?

[Mark @ Nov 25th 2006 11:03PM]

Correction: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003820.html

[Brian @ Nov 25th 2006 11:32PM]

I demand Windows include sign language
or I'll sue...

[David P @ Nov 26th 2006 12:51AM]

I wonder if they would have been sued if they didn't include the translation.

[JWRIGHT @ Nov 26th 2006 2:31AM]

first one to find a linux distro in their language wins a cookie

And they aren't suing my good friend linus are they?

[Zorque @ Nov 26th 2006 3:29AM]

I'm actually on Microsoft's side this time. Suing people usually comes from some sort of damage that they've caused. Microsoft provided a service for anyone who speaks the language and wants to use their programs. Anyone who doesn't want to use the program can avoid it entirely if they want to. What's the harm done?

[Z @ Nov 26th 2006 4:16AM]

These lawsuits are so stupid. All this is, is an attempt at making a few bucks.

People are so greedy these days. They couldn't care less about honor and so forth. They see someone with deep pockets and they think, "How can we exploit things to put a few dollars in our own?" And then they try to hide their greed behind "culture" and "tradition". Like everyone else is too stupid to see through all that.

This lawsuit should be discarded like a piece of rubbish.

No one "owns" languages. It's incredibly arrogant to think otherwise. God is the inventor of them all, so this tribe needs to get off their high-horse and find something else to do with their time, like open up a casino or some other money generating enterprise (and I don't mean that disrespectfully. I'm being serious).

People have a right to translate their work into any language they choose.

[treetrunk @ Nov 26th 2006 6:23AM]

This is ridiculous. The Queen didn't give Microsoft permission to use English either- and since most of it's "American English", by her standards it's a bad translation!

[GhostDoggy @ Nov 26th 2006 8:22AM]

My simple solution would be to issue a Windows Update removing this feature, and then charging $100K per license for its use in a language pack. Try to do something nice, and get screwed for it.

Curious, who wants to file a suit against the indians for using the English language their lawyers used to issue the suit in? Counter0suit time.

[Telemaco @ Nov 26th 2006 9:29AM]

It's incredible, how people let themselves to have an oppinion about an issue they know nothing. Let's see. What do you do if the computer your child is using in classroom tries to say "your mother is a nice woman" and, instead of that, it says "your mother is nice whore"? and what if MS do nothing about it? Did you believe simply as "oh, well, MS did a great service to our community"...?

[Brent D @ Nov 26th 2006 10:35AM]

I'd like to sue about 50% of the commenters here for their relentless butchery of the English language.

[Jeff Lewis @ Nov 26th 2006 1:45PM]

Couple of points:

You can't copyright a language. This has been tested several times in court. You can only copyright a creative work fixed in some medium.

In term of it being 'intellectual property', no - it isn't. The reason is simple: a language isn't typically constructed with intent, it's evolved over time by many people.

Which addresses the people who say the tribe has a right to regulate their own language. No, they do not - at least not in a restrictive way. They have a right to *promote* their language, and they have a right to restrict their own use of a their language as a community, but there's no legal way to stop some other group from adopting or even modifying the tribes language to their own use.

When it comes to Microsoft badly translating Windows into their language - well, there's an easy fix: don't buy it. As for their involvement in the process - yes, it's unfortunate Microsoft didn't get them involved - but that's not typically how translation gets done. Microsoft more than likely hired a translator who seemed to have credentials for this language.

Personally, I'm more impressed that Microsoft made the effort to provide Windows in a language used by so few people. Don't get me wrong - I know it's so they can sell a few more copies of Windows - but still...

[Colin @ Nov 26th 2006 2:49PM]

I congratulate Microsoft for attempting to offer localised versions of its software.

If the intended users of said software are unhappy with it, they can choose to use other software.

Simple.

[Jaime @ Nov 26th 2006 3:31PM]

I'm chilean too. I feel shame for them. Always trying to get money from everything but work.

[Han @ Nov 26th 2006 3:57PM]

Just curious, and trying not to offend anyone, but how many of you who say that you can't patent languages are actually Chilean lawyers or paralegals etc, how many of you are basing this on the laws of your native country/state (US,UK, California, etc), and how many of you are just assuming that the lawmakers wouldn't make (what you consider) a ridiculous law?

[Tazmanian Doc @ Nov 26th 2006 4:31PM]

I wonder if the letter they sent to microsoft was preceded by an offer to help correct incorrect translations, because we all know that the evil microsoft empire thrives on pissing people off mis translating their software.

I can see bill games and George Bush collaborating right now.. "hehe I am going to say nu-cu-lur and piss off nuclear engineers" - Bush

"Oh yea, I am going to translate a language wrong just to piss off 400,000 indians in Chile" - Bill

There needs to be a Jury of peers to toss out stupid lawsuits than can be fixed in other more productive ways.

[Brian @ Nov 26th 2006 10:21PM]

To all those bantering on and on about how American/Western copyright values aren't the center of the world -- neither IS Western TORT LITIGATION. These native peoples are trying to use a Western system as old as ancient Rome to extract money from MS, and yet somehow they're above or beyond "Western" interpretation? The fact that they're willing to take their case to the Supreme Court of Chile "and beyond" should be enough to get you-all to shut your traps: they're prepared to disrespect the decisions made in their OWN NATION.

I really wish Microsoft would just abandon the translation altogether. Let them learn to do all their important, computing-intensive business in Spanish, if they have such a bug up their asses. Offering ANY kind of translation service is a good-faith attempt to help PRESERVE a language, by allowing a language's speakers to carry their native tongue with them into the 21st century. If these people don't appreciate that, f*** them.

[Washimingo @ Nov 26th 2006 10:46PM]

btw i'm from chile

[E @ Nov 27th 2006 6:05AM]

"Basically, I think it's very bigoted to refuse an indigenous group of people the right to regulate the use of their own language by outsiders, and certainly very offensive to think that they just want money out of Microsoft."
-Aidhoss


Uhhh they simply translated Windows into their language. MS isn't claiming ownership. This is like the French Government suing me because I spoke French without some kind of official permission.

So I will continue to butcher it as I am more familiar with Spanish and Italian. I look forward to seeing these morons defeated in court. It's more than likely if they did get money out of it, it would disappear into the pockets of a few, and not the tribe as a whole anyway.

As they say... No good deed goes unpunished.

[Davy de verteuil @ Nov 27th 2006 7:23AM]

Rate this!
The racism and the ignorance are appalling.

[Duncan @ Nov 27th 2006 7:47AM]

Comment from Dom is innacurate. I am Chilean too.

'Dejo claro mi m�s profundo rechazo a lo que est� haciendo Microsoft y emplaz� a la empresa a que no contin�e con el proyecto de pirater�a que afecta a la identidad del pueblo mapuche', manifest� Huilcam�n, seg�n recogen diarios argentinos.

He is talking about Windows "pirating" the mapuzungun "language".

What is more funny, is that the written version of mapuzungun was invented by german missioners.

Do we "consult" germans when translating manuals of our products to german? Do we ask England for participation when we translate our products to english. No.

They want free access to culture and social rights. But spreading culture means having it everywhere, accessible and free.

If you can read spanish, my opinion is here: http://duncan.mac-vicar.com/blog/archives/151

[Juan @ Nov 27th 2006 1:33PM]

Our Mapuche are a breed of people whose men were good at fighting (the spaniard soldiers who lost their lives here were among the hardest and more experienced) and whose women were good at working. Now they don't fight nor work, but drink, whine and bitch. Pitiful.

Juan, from Chile.

[mario @ Nov 28th 2006 9:17AM]

funny. It happens that i�m chilean, but i have not heard anything about this joke until now... BTW, those indians are no more than 40.000, so you tiped an extra zero.

[Hugh @ Dec 8th 2006 9:33PM]

Jeez... people offending Microsoft, people offending the Mapuche... this is ridiculous, that is stupid, this group just cares about the X or the Y race... well that's how threads go, right?

But anyway... I don't know _much_ about these indians situation. But I think that going for the "it's just for money's sake" or "languages are for everybody's free use" or even "languages are given by 'God'(?)" are rather... _narrow_ views.

Are languages copyrighted? Not in America, ok, sure. But remember, America, or for that sake Europe or anywhere else, ISN'T THE CENTER OF THE WORLD. Even Chile's laws doesn't seem to be agreeded on by the Mapuche, since they consider themselves excluded (whatever their reasons). Don't forget that they were there before the mix of natives and Spanish became the "majority". If they really believe that their language is theirs and ONLY theirs, why on Earth MS made its translation for it? Don't think that because UK or "the worlds great powers" never complained, people from others cultures are on their right to do so...

Ok, ok... going to court about it may not be a very good idea either, but scraping the translation and MAYBE some "I'm sorry you didn't really like our idea, we're quitting it.", just to see the POPULATION's (not just the indians) reaction would fit just fine.

That's what I think.

[Washimingo @ Jun 26th 2009 2:36PM]

Its Mapudungun not "Mapuzungun", please make the correction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mapudungun