President Bush's plans for a return to the moon in 2020, with a trip to Mars to follow, were all well and good, but now NASA has finally fleshed out the details of the moon visits, and it seems a permanent international moon base is in the cards. NASA hopes to return to the moon starting in 2020 with short stays to get things prepared, and to have the base ready for extended stays by 2024. The lunar outpost will most likely be placed on the lunar south pole, which is lit by the sun three-quarters of the time, and has possible resources to mine nearby. Two vehicles will be employed, the Orion exploration vehicle, and an all-purpose "pickup truck" of a landing vehicle which attaches to the Orion and can bring cargo and/or crew to the lunar surface in a manned or unmanned manner. It'll cost a whoppin' $104 billion to get back to the moon for the first trip, and we're sure carting supplies up there won't be cheap, but in the long run NASA hopes to be able to harvest hydrogen, oxygen and other nifty moon resources for the operation of the outpost, tasks which could eventually become simple enough to turn over to a commercial supplier. In an effort to keep costs down and build good will, NASA is welcoming other countries to join the effort, though NASA will be doing the actual design work. "This is not your father's Apollo," says John Logsdon of the Space Policy Institute at George Washington University. "This is not a flag-and-footprints. This is the idea of starting an outward movement that includes long stays on the moon."
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
asher @ Dec 5th 2006 10:45AM
With our overtly litigious societly I muse about a station on the moon...
Airlocks will have signs that read: "WARNING: Opening door will cause lack of air. Lack of air may cause death."
What a fun future.
Daniel @ Dec 5th 2006 4:43PM
This is only in response to the Chinese planning their moon missions and moon base. Supposedly the Chinese wanted a base by 2032, so the US might beat them by 6 years.
I sense another space race.
Xavier Gill @ Dec 5th 2006 10:46AM
"...$104 billion..."
Wow it's a good thing there aren't 37 million people living below the poverty line in the USA...oh wait
guilt+1 @ Dec 5th 2006 10:50AM
About damn time. The world as a whole has sat back and done almost nothing REAL in space for 30 years. It's good to see things are progressing again. The moon makes the ideal first step. I hope this idea doesn't fizzle out.
KaosDG @ Dec 5th 2006 10:54AM
I guess we're actually going there this time?
/Conspiracy!
Josh Kooistra @ Dec 5th 2006 11:01AM
Wow what a great waste of money, dont get me wrong im all for space travel just seems like we have better things to be doing right now
KaosDG @ Dec 5th 2006 11:07AM
What they aren't telling you is that the CIA has determined that the Sea of Tranquility is where the WMDs are!
Brian @ Dec 5th 2006 11:07AM
I volunteer Bush to be the first man locked in the moon base.
Brad @ Dec 5th 2006 11:07AM
jfk said:
"We choose to go to the moon. We choose to go to the moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too."
I really wish I was alive back in those days. And to borrow a marketing phrase from a chip company: If not now, when?
Andrew C @ Dec 5th 2006 11:16AM
I think the idea is cool and all. When I was a little boy stuff like
this got me all excited.
But honestly in my opinion, a government
really has no place doing something like this. The government should
just scrap this and lower taxes instead. Or keep taxes the same and
make an attempt to lower the deficit, seeing as we pay around 300
billion dollars a year solely towards the interest of the
debt.
Eventually the private sector will have a reason to go to the
moon (given, might not be in the next 100 years), and it will be
done. I just don't see why the government should be doing this. Keep
the government small.
apc
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okita soji @ Dec 10th 2006 6:10PM
...word.
whiskey @ Dec 5th 2006 11:16AM
One of those DRMless countries should beat them to it... Torrent servers from the moon would be a legal void, on second thought, i bet all the big corporations would have the financial resources to unplug them.
Sarah @ Dec 5th 2006 11:22AM
You know, I completely welcome this, because this is our future, and where we should be pushing for (if we scaled back our military budget we could afford this AND pay for the social programmes that are also needed) and a REAL goal for us ... however, this news is also a tad bittersweet.
Because you know, this is less than 20 years from now ... just think, if we had pushed onward after Apollo rather than retreating, we'd be there NOW. Hell, we would have been there for a WHILE, and who knows where else we would be pushing on out for ...
I have never seen human beings set foot on another planetary body in my lifetime, as I was born after Apollo *sigh*
LongshotX @ Dec 5th 2006 11:26AM
I don't see any point in this other than to say "my balls our bigger than yours". A telescope i.e. Hubble replacement would be nice but I believe that money could be better allocated to more important issues such as education and environmental issues.
KaosDG @ Dec 5th 2006 11:31AM
Well, you could say this would address some environmental issues, since it's a first step to terraforming another planet.
Basically, if we can't solve the environmental issues on earth, we can at least find another planet to screw up!
Joe @ Dec 5th 2006 6:58PM
We've spent trillions on education, and high school seniors can barely multiply and divide, and cannot name 5 presidents in history. It's not the amount of money, it's how it's being spent.
G. Snyder @ Dec 5th 2006 11:53AM
There is a huge point to it. If we could use the moon as a launching point for further exploration it would make it a lot easier in the long run as there is less gravity to overcome - particularly if the components for fuel could be generated on the moon from local resources. Comments about poverty lines are idiotic, as these are long term investments...investments which will secure the continuation of the human race (sounds like being a doom sayer, but someday the sun will blow up and take earth with it. It is not up for debate - that is what stars do.)
OMAC @ Dec 5th 2006 11:58AM
I believe Dave Chapelle said it best when he said "Mars, bitches!"
Yeah people are going to whine and moan about poverty this and environment that. What they fail to realize is that there will always be poverty, disease and environmental concerns. There will always be the haves and the have-nots. I think it's a safe bet to say that every democratic country on the face of this planet has its homeless, poverty, racial strife, AIDS issues and envirionmental concerns. These things are not going anywhere. It is our responsibility, as citizens, not the governments, to end, or at least mitigate these things.
How many of you don't look homeless people in the eye when you walk down the street? When was the last time you bought a homeless person a meal? Have you talked to your children about AIDS? For that matter, do you practice safe sex? Do you have a fuel efficient car or do you drive a goliath of an SUV?
The quote from JFK is just as accurate today as it was then. We need to do these things because they are hard. If we can develop a self sustaining lunar colony imagine the benefits that would trickle down.
LongshotX @ Dec 5th 2006 2:58PM
Unless you're willing to terraform a planet in the next century and colonize it I don't believe we'll be leaving our planet anytime soon. The best bet is to take care of what you got and strive to improve it one day at a time.
JK's message still rings true today, you're correct, but it doesn't have to always be used in the context of space exploration and travel. Think about it, there are a measureless amount of species that have yet to be classified, it was easier to reach the moon than to get man down to the deepest depths of our oceans (approximately 5% of the world's oceans have been mapped or explored in detail), the AID epidemic has yet to be curbed significantly (No vaccine in sight), most people in the world still lack basic necessities such as cleaning running water, and adequate food. Global Warming one of our largest challenges is positioned to destroy entire economies and areas in which largely overpopulated and lowlying, awaken diseases the respond to changes in temperature, etc. The worlds addiction to fossil fuels is also a major challenge that we face as a species as well overpopulation. There are a countless number of problems that need our attention. But we'll never solve them unless they are addressed with equal enthuasiam.
So the greatest challenge is not whether we can go to other worlds, in this century. It is whether we can take care and own up to the responsiblity that it entails in taking care of our own. Because it is in this challenge that our existence will forever prove itself meaningful.
James @ Dec 5th 2006 12:17PM
I like the nature of our response to something this incredible: "waaa we have to spend money to do this..." /sarcasm.
SO let me get this straight... it's a waste of money to defend our nation from those who would sooner spend their time in caves plotting our downfall, it's a waste of money to explore another world (note: this wouldn't be possible in another nation - America is king of the hill with regards to space travel and exploration).... but it's perfectly fine to waste money on government programs that have proven ineffective and useless but which instead create dependency on the state, and erodes personal responsibilities.
Please. Grow some brains. Once the government establishes a moonbase, private industry will follow. Hell, they've already followed and attempted to do better than NASA with spacecraft, as proven by the SpaceShipOne and other private spacecraft efforts. It's called competition. Contrary to popular belief, and as Martha says, it's a good thing.
TIMMAH! @ Dec 5th 2006 12:25PM
I hope they call it "Moonbase Alpha"...
alex @ Dec 5th 2006 3:18PM
"I hope they call it "Moonbase Alpha"..."
Only if they send Martin Landau but I doubt he'll last long enough if this thing ever gets off the ground.
Ben L. @ Dec 5th 2006 12:28PM
I think this is great project. Just think of what can come out of the enormous amounts of R&D needed for such a feat. The Space Race of the 50's and 60's and the subsequent Space/Shuttle Program really played a big part in the advancement of a range of technologies from microelectronics, to artificial limbs, to even textiles (e.g.: thermal blankets/insoles). There are so many logistical problems associated with colonizing the moon that the technological developments needed to overcome these problems would eventually trickle down to something that the average person can benefit from.
An example is food and nutrition. It is highly likely that any lunar colony would need to be self sustaining and advancements in food technology could eventually help or lead to a solution to famine. Robotics and industrial efficiency, as well as fuel technology also comes to mind. Like someone said above, it is a long term investment but in the end it can turn out to be highly rewarding
e=mc2 @ Dec 5th 2006 12:52PM
Too late Mr. Bush. I wish to inform you and the world that we, the People's Republic of China have claimed the moon Chinese territory. So now you and the British must pay us the Chinese. Har Har Har Round Eye!
badnegro @ Dec 5th 2006 1:17PM
@Brad, @G. Snyder, @OMAC, @James, @Ben L.
Thanks for the wise words and input. It's funny how few people there are that are willing to dream, explore, push. Scary how many more there are who are fearful, complacent, ditherers.
For those who want to navel-gaze, consider:
-war is caused by population pressure (think it thru before you respond) -- we need to think now about ways to expand 100 years from now;
-pouring additional money onto existent failing social programs has rarely improved said program (education, welfare, social security, energy);
-no one knows what the potential benefits may be -- other than that many will be amazing engineering feats which will translate into practical goods and services;
-courageous men and women would rather die trying than not see this attempt made(it's *not* your butt on the line anyway...);
-if a US-led coalition doesn't colonize the Moon first, some other hegemony will.
@Sarah
I feel your pain. All thru grade school I hoped and prayed that the moon program would be restarted. Now I'm in my thirties and too old to be part of that or any subsequent moon crew. But maybe my 12-week-old will follow in her daddy's footsteps, attend USAFA, become a pilot/scientist and have a chance of her own...
I only hope those of us with monkey curiosity and more balls than brains can persuade the bookkeepers and decision-makers to ignore the punks and cowards and allow us to secure a place in the future for mankind to grow and expand and move on...
Sarah @ Dec 5th 2006 1:29PM
@ badnegro
Like you I grew up dreaming about a return to the Moon and beyond, hearing the stories from my parents, etc ... I even ended up with a degree in astrophysics ... however, thanks to the money pulled/sucked out of research in that direction due in part to lack of gonads and intelligence regarding pushing onward with space exploration, there really wasn't much out there to do with it and make a good living ... I am now in my early 30's and am finishing my PhD in sociology ... but I still dream about what might have been ...
As you say, perhaps my child when I have her might be able to spread her wings and go where her mother could not ...
tomas @ Dec 5th 2006 2:12PM
I think that they dont know what to do whit the money, cos we have a lot of things to fix here in our planet, and we dont even know what is in the deepest zones of the oceans, and I dont have money to buy a notebook, best whishes from Argentina.
http://x-tom.blogspot.com ->Its in spanish.
bjkalski @ Dec 5th 2006 2:20PM
Move the money we are spending on Iraq to the moon project and it would probably turn out to be cheaper.
Railgun @ Dec 5th 2006 3:17PM
Previous NASA R&D for the space race = funding of intercontinental ballistic missile research under the guise of science. It did get us there, but ROI in terms of science was abysmal.
Current NASA R&D for the lunar base = funding of robotics technology for use in unprecedented military power.
Thank you military industrial complex.
Anyone want to guess which mega military manufacturers are winning the rights to build the infrastructure for this?
I'm not opposed to funding R&D, but let's be honest about where the majority of this money is going.
Ben L. @ Dec 5th 2006 5:12PM
It is the sad truth that most human innovation and technological breakthroughs has been first used or developed for militaristic purposes:
Lighter and heavier than air flight = WWI and II
ENIAC Computer = Manhatten Project
Space program = intercontinental delivery of nuclear missles
and it would be naive to deny that. We can only hope that we can learn from our past and that new technologies, although at first developed for warfare, will not actually be used in that manner, however naive that belief may be.
Fat Joe @ Dec 5th 2006 3:29PM
How long until a McDonald's is built?
wraith808 @ Dec 5th 2006 3:30PM
It's funny... because there have only been miniscule chances that certain bodies will impact the earth and destroy it, we ignore the possiblity... and the stupidity of having *all* human life in one place.
We need to spread out, for several reasons, and all have to do with the survival of the human race. I'd rather the human race as a whole survive than pour yet more money into 1) a hyperconsumptive society that doesn't care about the future, 2) someone's economy that doesn't care enough to divert their own economy to caring for their people and changing the situation rather than being the world's equivalent of the people at the traffic light, begging for scraps, or 3) the people who aren't self-motivated enough to change their own situation.
Outward, not inward, is where we should be looking.
Daniel @ Dec 5th 2006 4:45PM
Sorry, I meant to say 6 to 10 years. A time range because who knows exactly when either the US or China will begin their moon bases.
Seven @ Dec 6th 2006 2:31AM
Please watch this before you comment.
mms://wm.nasa-global.speedera.net/wm.nasa-global/nasavision/vision.wmv
Seven @ Dec 6th 2006 3:09AM
Also watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fCf-i4Nnw8
Fat Joe @ Dec 6th 2006 6:36AM
Watch this _)_)=====================B
AdvidG @ Dec 6th 2006 11:01AM
Don't know what "Moonbase Alpha" is?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LounQ9_Sx4
Hells Yea! Thanks alex.
laurence.kaminska @ Dec 6th 2006 8:32PM
There may not be a good reason to go to the moon right now, but think of all the experience and knowledge we will gain by attempting an ambitious project like this. Who knows we may find out something new by doing this, you will never experience anything if you sit on your hands all your life, go NASA.
raider @ Dec 7th 2006 7:02PM
People are funny.
This is one of the greatest announcements of our time. The chance for humankind to expand from a single planet to begin the colonization of our solar system and eventually the universe. If we are lucky to see the day, we will be seeing the next step in human evolution, it's friggin massive. Stop being negative.
I shouldn't imagine the US won't be going it alone, NASA don't have to open purse they used to have, it will be a joint effort, not unlike the ISS. It's no different to the early days of exploration and settlement on this planet, pioneers of space, the beginning of being able to live the very popular dreams portrayed in countless block buster movies, the development of new and exciting technology and materials ( google space travel innovation ) We rely on so many of the materials that have been developed from velcro to robotics.
Hire some movies, apollo13, october sky, blade runner, matrix, read some books and try to understand the message, we need to conquer, no different to the early pioneers, no different to mountaineers, battling the elements, facing adversity and being ingenious .. it is what we are here to do. No more, no less.
Fruition @ Dec 8th 2006 12:35AM
All "in the name of exploration" arguments aside, we're spending billions of dollars on a project which has no apparent purpose other than so that we can say we have a station on the moon. Does anyone think this sounds like a real-life Sealab 2021? A "Spacelab 2024" if you will.
Anyway, if I was head of that project I'd go out of my way to find someone named Hank Murphy to put in charge of the lab. He wouldn't even have to be qualified. In fact, it would be better if he wasn't. Then he might run a pirate radio station using the base's emergency beacon or have the whole crew search for his missing Happy Cake(R) oven. If that happened then I could justify $104 billion.
ahmed saaid @ Dec 17th 2006 10:52AM
hi how are you
Matthew Van Arsdale @ Mar 26th 2008 3:37PM
I think "Plow" is spelled like this? Not like this "Plough" Bloody Brits......
chinko @ Apr 24th 2008 1:56PM
Guys,
You're all worried about 'taxes and living wages', but this is for the betterment of mankind. Do you really think that your precious land-boat is going to run forever?
We need to begin the process of exploring other planets so that our race may thrive and not die out in the event of a major earth catastrophe. Don't be so closed off to the future. What will your children's grandchildren do if there is no atmosphere here anymore?
The 3rd Hot Dog @ Apr 24th 2008 2:59PM
If Schwarzenegger movies have taught us anything, it seems very likely that a clones (or clones) will succeed in activating a long dormant terraforming device located on the moon (or mars) and bring about a new era of prosperity after earth has resorted to televised executions of fugitives from the Food Riots.
If the clone is a male (and an undercover cop/kindergarten teacher,) it's very possible that he'll be with child when he accomplishes this task - possibly with the help of his shorter, uglier twin.
Also, Terrorists and Predators.