German legislation would jail FPS gamers

Late last month, an 18-year-old man went on a shooting spree at his former junior high school in western Germany, killing himself and injuring 11 others. According to reports on the German news site Tagesschau, the man spent a fair bit of time playing "Counter-Strike," which some say may have led to his inspiration to conduct the killing. As a result of this tragedy, two state governments in Bavaria and Lower Saxony have drafted legislation which, according to the Financial Times, would "subject developers, distributors and players of video games whose goal is to inflict 'cruel violence on humans or human-looking characters' to a fine and a maximum of one year in jail." If the measures pass, German gamers, amateur and pro alike, will have to lay off the FPS games for quite a long while and stick to more traditional non-violent games, like, you know, "Pac-Man."

[Via Slashdot]

[Jypson @ Dec 9th 2006 5:48AM]

Hopefully more empty threats. Blame everyone but the individual, thats the answer.

[fgdfgdfdfgdfg @ Dec 9th 2006 6:00AM]

I seriously doubt that this will go through. I can't see how this is compatible with our constitution...

[shiftis @ Dec 9th 2006 6:19AM]

I don't know, PacMan is pretty violent. Kids might go to school and start eating other kids--we can't have that.

[Revrant2394 @ Dec 9th 2006 1:11PM]

That has so many meanings other than the one you intended.

I Love it.

[William @ Dec 10th 2006 2:44PM]

Haha, yeah maybe they will! That legislation is the craziest thing I have ever heard. I don't live in Germany, but still that would stink if it passed...

[Bultie @ Dec 9th 2006 6:38AM]

Oh my god he ate a pizza before he went to kill people we have to forbid pizza...
Im not a friend of violent games, but this is rediculous.


Ps: German Government Sux. b.t.w I'm a German

[Paul @ Dec 9th 2006 6:40AM]

I pity our german gaming counterparts if this goes through...

I can see it now, underground illegal LAN party and the german equivalent to the SWAT comes busting in to cart off pimped up PCs.

Oh the horrors...

[dov @ Dec 9th 2006 6:58AM]

pacman has subliminal violence, and gore..
CS has these on the surface, so you know what you're dealing with..

btw I just stopped playing CS after 6 years..
trying to get a life.. anyone?! :D

[Hypno @ Dec 9th 2006 7:15AM]

Terrorists win :-(

[Mike @ Dec 9th 2006 8:38AM]

Germany has some of the toughest Anti-Gun legislation in the world and tragedies like this still occur. The good news is that there is never any shortage of things to blame without ever having to actually blame the psycho.

[Jon Olsen @ Dec 9th 2006 7:45AM]

In fact, these laws are completely in line with the essence of the German Basic Law (i.e. Constitution). Germany defines itself as a "democracy on the defensive." This is the same constitutional underpinning that allows German courts to ban political parties that are a danger to democracy and forbid the publication of Nazi-oriented publications. There is a fear here in Germany that such games have a very similar effect as (violent) propaganda. I am not saying that I agree with this assessment as applied to games nor that I think it will actually hold up under scrutiny (there will need to be courts and psychologists involved), I am just trying to explain a bit more about the rationale behind passing such legislation in Germany.

[Zach @ Dec 9th 2006 8:08AM]

Actually, that's really interesting Jon Olsen to know! But isn't there still a Nazi party that has been gaining traction in Germany as of late? I know I'm missing some details there .

This is incredibly unfortunate, because there is absolutely no link between violence, especially in the United States, and violent video games. As Gamerevolution had stated in their famous article, the actual number of "violent crimes" has actually decreased over the years.

[fgdfgdfdfgdfg @ Dec 9th 2006 9:01AM]

Well, it is not so easy to ban the nazi party, especially because they behave in ways to "disguise" themselves. One would really have to prove that they want to establish a fascist state, which is not so easy of course. The court to decide this would be the constitutional court. It has been tried to forbid them, but without success.

Also, political parties are much better protected against being prohibited than other organisations whose actions are to abolish democracy. This is to make sure that the governing parties can't simply forbid unwelcome competitors.

concerning the computer games: I don't believe they can forbid FPS games. Of course they can try. But our constitution clearly states "Censorship is not to be done." There are exceptions in REALLY extreme cases, but I don't see how they want to try to justify that computer games are being treated differently from books, films where people being killed (also violently) is happening all the time.

I hope they will instead go the more rational way that they persued in the past: Make the laws to protect the youth/children against this kind of material more strict. Actually, children can still buy violent game - they just have to search for a shop where the controls are lax. There are a lot of ways to improve this, while perserving the rights of grown up people.

[dcode @ Dec 10th 2006 10:22AM]

why 'especially in the United States'?

[LittleJoe @ Dec 9th 2006 8:14AM]

jeez...

maybe V for Vendetta should have been set in futuristic Germany.

[Stoo @ Dec 9th 2006 8:16AM]

.... and then the kids will start eating pills and Pac Man will be banned for promoting drug use.

[MASA @ Dec 9th 2006 7:11PM]

Ha!

That's hilarious.

Wonder if this bans duckhunt

[Ben @ Dec 9th 2006 8:16AM]

The Germans always had serious issues with this sort of thing; they banned a laser-quest style game on the grounds of public interest because it allows one to "play at killing": http://www.out-law.com/page-5009

Basically, the operator was trying to get the game allowed on free movement of goods and free provision of services legislation, but the ECJ allowed derogation from articles 28/29, 49/50 on grounds of public policy: the German constitution provides for "protection of human dignity", and apparently laser-quest doesn't fall in line with that.

I knew studying European Law would come in useful.

[unknwn @ Dec 9th 2006 8:49AM]

That is very homo, It's highly unlikely that a game that is against terrorism would cause this guy to flip out with a gun.

Now I know why he did this, he was talking crap to me on Xfire and said that he wanted to vs me in CS:S, so I said shure, then kicked his ass in it, and he went into a fit and killed himself, but he sucks so bad he shot 11 other people before actually getting himself.

I wonder if they're really doing this because they're tired of seeing germans killing Germans, in other words, germans playing Call of duty!

[Fred @ Dec 10th 2006 7:59PM]

I'm sorry -- "that's very homo?"

[Zach @ Dec 9th 2006 8:54AM]

unknown was that an attempt at a joke or "humor"?

sorry, missed the punchline.

[Jon Olsen @ Dec 9th 2006 9:19AM]

fgdfgdfgdfg (I hope I got that right) makes a good point. It is truly very difficult to ban a political party. Both the current and previous governments have investigated the NPD (the National Party of Germany), which hold parliamentary seats in three state parliaments and is borderline in its politics. The constitutional court has ruled in each case so far that there was not enough evidence to justify a ban. At the same time, despite the unsuccessful attempts to ban such parties, such vigilance does force parties to be very careful in what they say and do in the public sphere. What is interesting is that these new FPS games are banned in two states (Bavaria/Bayern and Lower Saxony/Niedersachsen) that have very different political traditions. Bavaria is much more conservative while Niedersachsen is generally seen as more mainstream and even progressive (although in 2003 they did elect a CDU-FDP (Conservative-Liberal) coalition). The question is if such legislation is going to have a broader backing than might be generally expected.

[george @ Dec 9th 2006 9:32AM]

Ok so they think this guy was mentally stable before playing this game? What about the parents who raised this wacko? What about movies? Movies right now are real life actors with life-like killing and when i was a child movies bothered me much more than any game. why is it always blamed on games which people know are make believe.

[Nimajus @ Dec 9th 2006 9:54AM]

Although I do not agree with crediting games for violent behavior, those who do would then have to agree that Half of Counter Strike players play as Police Force, thus if you believe that games are so important in changing the minds of the youth, 50% of those affected by CS will join police force or SWAT.

[richard roundtree @ Dec 9th 2006 8:54PM]

zomg i cant believe this is happening. hollywoods been feeding us smut for decades and now they want to take it away. screw that

[metalpowered @ Dec 9th 2006 10:16AM]

It simply sucks. Just because our government cant find a solution for the reasons this guy killed himself, they blame the first thing that came to their head. In germany, kids are left alone with themself, there is no care, cause their parents are either at work or (if they dont work) they are beating their kids and drink. Of course thats not always true, but in those cases where this shit happens, the circumstances of life are always difficult. Too bad, not a single party did react on my e-mail telling them to see the problem from this side. Well, thats germany, hooray!...

[MercWorks @ Dec 11th 2006 1:38PM]

@metalpowered: A lot like America, I assure you.

[Alan @ Dec 9th 2006 10:56AM]

"injured" 11 and he died. He must've really sucked at CS.

[unknwn @ Dec 9th 2006 11:43AM]

Zach, I would only tell the truth, I don't know how to lie, I swear, they guy was just pissed off and cant aim!

[Bad Beaver @ Dec 9th 2006 12:08PM]

Not funny Alan, not funny.

The whole thing is incredibly annoying. First, the usual politicians (all prime examples of the reflected human *cough*) start screaming murder. These people have never in their life played CS. Then the media is all over it and you have to endure their both endless and mindless repetitions of the eversame nonsense. Then, due to all the attention, the next round of low-lifes feels duly called upon to pull even more crap, and once caught they too blame the games. Back in the day, if you wanted to plead for unsoundness of mind, you'd say "the voices made me do it". Not it's "the games made me do it". It is nauseating.

Here in Germany, even adults sometimes have to jump through hoops in order to aquire adult content, which can be a real PITA if you are into movies. Yet it is accepted on the grounds that we do not wish little Anna or Peter to see The Texas Chain Saw Massacre on their own. It is established though that people here by the age of 18 can decide for themselves. We will not have that taken away, as certain politicians will likely notice.

[LiQuiD_FuSioN @ Dec 9th 2006 12:31PM]

How could they take away a German kid's best friend? I used to live in Germany and my neighbors were German, they'd always talk about CS this and CS that. I never really cared for CS until a few years later when I bought the game for fun. It really isn't that violent compared to most games - What about GTA, DOOM or Unreal Tournament?!

And on the silly thing about this is, is that CS has been around for a long ass time now. Whether or not the law gets passed, if it gets passed there will always be another online game to flock too. I for one do not hope such a frivolous law ever gets passed.

[ankit patel @ Dec 9th 2006 12:51PM]

cant blame a game, to what a 18 year old does he is an adult he chose to kill him self and injure 11 others.

[Taylor @ Dec 9th 2006 1:10PM]

"developers, distributors and players of video games whose goal is to inflict 'cruel violence on humans or human-looking characters' to a fine and a maximum of one year in jail."

We just need to make an FPS where people "inflict cruel violence" on non-human-looking characters, like carrots.

I, for one, welcome our new vegetable shooting game genre.
-Taylor

[Mike @ Dec 9th 2006 1:22PM]

Maybe we'll finally win the WCG.

[Brian @ Dec 9th 2006 1:33PM]

After Columbine (Explanation for those not living in the US: Columbine was the first school shooting in America in decades, spawning many copycat shootings), the news and even ROLLING STONE painted much of the blame on Rammstein because the kids listened to their music.

It creeps me out that remotely intelligent people have such a hard time assigning responsibility to individuals.

[Matt @ Dec 10th 2006 12:09AM]

They blamed Rammstein? I don't remember that. I do remember them blaming Doom or something though.
BTW, does Rammstein have violent lyrics? I don't understand German, so I wouldn't know.

[HART @ Dec 9th 2006 1:40PM]

Lets frag them!!! xD

[Jason @ Dec 9th 2006 1:49PM]

Germany hasn't had freedom in I don't know how long. Their censorship laws are draconian. I know Nazis are bad, but a government in a "free" society has no right to censor free speech, no matter how bad it may be or how many people dislike it. No opposed banning Nazi symbols like the Swastika (even though Hindus might be upset because it's a religious symbol for them), but one thing leads to another. Next we'll hear about citizen protests being banned. Oh, who needs free speech, anyway? Western civilization is headed in the wrong direction.

[ShogunMaster @ Dec 9th 2006 1:55PM]

Another stupid rule that totally misses the point. In any large group or society, there are a few people who have the propensity towards violence. The simulated violence doesn't turn everyone into sociopaths, and sociopaths don't turn into productive members of society by playing non-violent games. The causes are far more complicated than banning a single game gendre would ever solve. If anything, silly bans like this would only help the pirate community gain a further stranglehold into their society.

Frankly, whenever I hear about governments/ protest groups/ people who should be raising their kids instead of bitching about why 'others' have failed them, I just want to get a high powered rifle and kill every mother-f*#!~** one of them! Maybe launch an anti-tank missile into the sides of their heads!! Ya Ya!! Die bitch die!!! Maybe if I had an APC or a tank, I could change their pointless arguments to help support the need for violent games. Ya, then they would understand. Then everyone would understand...

[Evan @ Dec 9th 2006 2:12PM]

If playing counter-strike in Germany led to wounding of 11 people in a school, then what video game caused the systematic murder of 10+ million people in death camps? And, do you think it will be re-released on the Wii?

[fgdfgdfdfgdfg @ Dec 9th 2006 2:26PM]

The answer is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KZ_Manager

Sorry, I just _had_ to post this.

[leon @ Dec 9th 2006 2:17PM]

Not this again. Why can't people just accept that the individual is the problem.

[SporkRocker @ Dec 9th 2006 4:02PM]

That is totally ridiculous. I despise people who use a simple game as a scapegoat. The problem wasn't the game. It was bad parenting for letting their son have no life. Also, I am pretty sure he shot up the kids who have probably tortured him by humiliation and possibly with violence too. Toilet swirlies, maybe? It's the parenting, bullies, and the school fault for letting this occur. A country full of Jack Thompsons' in high places. Scary.

[Matthew @ Dec 9th 2006 3:41PM]

A little note, the guy who went on the killing spree did a video with his friend(s) just a few days before that was pretty much pre-acting it.

[EddN @ Dec 9th 2006 3:53PM]

This is totally silly, as I'm sure you all agree. All I can say is hurry up 'Crytek' and finish the 'Crysis' game before they bring in this stupid law. I'm sure you fellow FPS players will agree. Maybe they can move the company to another country without such silly ideas.

[fgdfgdfdfgdfg @ Dec 9th 2006 4:09PM]

Interesting for anyone speaking German: http://www.bmj.de/enid/58.html?presseartikel_id=2624

Our federal minister of justice declares that a change of laws is unnecessary, and that the propositions of the regional ministers don't have any additional use.

[lionheart25 @ Dec 10th 2006 10:42AM]

Yeah, the ministery for families, youth, etc said it to, that the laws are the hardest in the world. But this didn't stopped the christ-conservative minister (not justice, not family, not anything related to this problem, no the one responsible for inner security) of bavaria from bringing up this altering of the law.
How many people told jack thompson to shut up and he's still around yelling and screaming.
Ah isn't it gread to life in the free democratic world where everyone can lie around?

[albi_from_albania @ Dec 9th 2006 5:45PM]

There is many mentally unstable people out there, I don't see how this is helping.

[Phreak511 @ Dec 9th 2006 10:34PM]

Stupid Germans...lol.

[irritated german @ Dec 10th 2006 6:04AM]

i don't think that the enforcement of our government will stop the problem. they only operate the results not the root of the problem.

games aren't the reason, the ppl who play it are� if a defective play the games he will dive into an other world far from all problems others made to him.

the problem is the society looking away from problems others have. look at teachers� they aren't interested in solving problems cause they aren't payed for.

as long ppl threating others like shit these will return and pay back. violence generates counter-violence that's a fact and our government have to prevent and act and not react after something happens.

the bavarian idiot stoiber and his following talking about things they never will understand.

how many ppl play counterstrike, world of warcraft or other games? millions over millions but "only" 0,0001 percent drives crazy? to drive cars is more violent� let's forbid cars.

i'm waiting for the day the media coverage spreading the headline: "kid drives crazy after playing super mario�.