PS2, PS1 480i games hampered by crazy jaggies on the PS3

When we heard the PS3 was going to feature a whole PS2 chipset for the sake of backwards compatibility, we didn't think it would suck so much. Beyond the games that are straight-up freezing or glitching out on the new box -- for which Sony is promising a patch -- the PS3 seems to be having heaps of trouble with 480i games in particular. In a sort of "double your jaggies" scenario, that's sure to leave fans of classic PlayStation titles delighted, the PS3's upscaling method for the low-res titles introduces all sorts of "jaggies" and artifacts into the image, as can be seen above in a splitscreen comparison between the PS3 and PS2 in Final Fantasy X. Some speculate that the PS3 lacks the necessary upscaling hardware, making a firmware update impossible for now, but we're hoping that somewhere in that heap of PS3 horsepower, Sony can find a way restore that beautiful shimmer to Tidus' hair. Peep a comparison video after the break.

[Via Joystiq]

[Smeagol @ Dec 13th 2006 4:31PM]

People using HDMI can just check what resolution their TV is recieving (and thus, what PS3 is outputing at).. is it 1080p or 480i?

If its 1080p or 720p then its doing some scaling, if its 480i then theres no scaling going on.

Theres no need for speculation, someone just needs to check.

[Evan @ Dec 13th 2006 4:48PM]

It appears to me to be "scaling" 640x480 to 720x480 (720x480 is the standard) by duplicating columns of pixels. The vertical resolution of 480/720/1080 is not the issue, the horizontal resolution seems to be problem.

[JJ @ Dec 13th 2006 4:40PM]

Yeah, it's so blatantly obvious. When playing FFXII for example, the once-beautiful graphics are hampered by absolutely horrendous jagged edges. It's as if antialiasing for PS2 games has been disabled when played on the PS3. Another issue is where the top and bottom 2% to 5% of the screen for PS2 games are cut off and the screen is overscanned. I knew there had to be a problem, and, I'm hoping a firmware update will fix this. If the issue cannot be resolved by firmware, and the PS3 has no upscaling hardware, this issue will not be fixed for a long time or never. I do hope that something can be done. I suggested to a friend that another possibility is to run the graphics enhancements through the PS3 RSX (graphics) chip for hardware upscaling and antialiasing. Such a fix could possibly be done through firmware, but will take a big effort by Sony to make it happen. It shouldn't hamper PS2 gameplay and performance. If Sony goes this route, I hope they make the upscaling and antialiasing available for PS1 games as well. But, most importantly, Sony should get off their ass and realize there is a problem and fix it immediately.

[bor_bor @ Dec 13th 2006 4:52PM]

I for one am getting some serious laughs off the PS3. With all the new features and new issues, it really makes the Wii look like a damn fine choice. Simple, to the point, and not filled with a ton a crap that does work as expected.

[Matt @ Dec 13th 2006 4:46PM]

Is anyone else tired of all this ps3 stuff. I mean we all know it sucks so stop telling us!

[d_jeffrey @ Dec 13th 2006 4:47PM]

It's not a scaling issue, even at 480i, the image looks horrible.

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 13th 2006 5:08PM]

I completely missed your comment in all the fanboyism. Indeed it does look like a horizontal resolution issue. Maybe the games are detecting your 16:9 as a 4:3 and the PS2 core is displaying it at 16:9... I might have to throw in GT4 or something later tonight that has settings for wide/standard TVs.

[bxbailey @ Dec 13th 2006 4:49PM]

I've never seen such hate for one company. I enjoyed engadget for their professionalism originally but after comments like:

"When we heard the PS3 was going to feature a whole PS2 chipset for the sake of backwards compatibility, we didn't think it would suck so much"

I just can't see them just reporting the facts without bias anymore.

[BandB @ Dec 13th 2006 5:50PM]

funny is good

start your own tech site if you don't appreciate their humor, other wise don't tell them how to run their hugely successful site

[010111 @ Dec 14th 2006 4:12AM]

it's a blog. who said there couldn't be bias? or opinion?

based on the included picture... i agree... that does suck. you seem to disagree however... i find that interesting. especially where 'bias' is concerned.

[Rick Lyon @ Dec 14th 2006 9:56AM]

It's not bias, it's honestly. They don't pull any punches here and at least they are mostly consistent in bashing those that deserve it. Sony just screws up more than most companies (save for Microsoft) and Sony is in the news more so they are bashed more.

[[e-mail] @ Dec 14th 2006 7:42PM]

I see how Sony and PS3 is getting attacked on this site. It just shows how scared other people are of Sony and PS3 and it also shows their immaturity. I might be on Sony's side because of 360's parent company, but I'm not going to be like 360 fans and take pot shots at Sony. What's with all this fan stuff anyway? If 360 is better than PS3 then why waste the time attacking it? If its so inferior then why do 360 fans jump on every little mistake Sony makes? It sounds like 360 fans are scare spitless to me. All this mudslinging being initiated by 360 fans will backfire. The fact that people are obviously trying to trash Sony and the PS3 is just free advertising for PS3. If I were on the fence, all this Sony bashing would make me want to buy PS3 more because I would wonder why people hated it so much. When I'm going to vote, I quickly loose respect for candidates whose whole campaign is wrapped up in defacing their competitor. It just shows me that this candidate is immature and has no character. You don't have to sling mud at an opponent if your better. You only have to put an opponent down if you have something wrong with you and your trying to bring them down to your level. If you are superior or have a superior product then you won't have to bring anyone down with negative and hateful comments because your already above them. You attributes will speak for itself.

[mike @ Dec 13th 2006 4:52PM]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9reXD1eIhgY

Not only do newer games work but they look better! of course 6 year old games (ffx) on new HD tvs looks bad, morons!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9reXD1eIhgY

[popcultureicon @ Dec 13th 2006 5:05PM]

Same. Television.
Different Playstations.

[Jason @ Dec 13th 2006 4:59PM]

If by work as expected you mean Wii bricks caused by badly tested updates, badly made wrist straps and Wiis not accepting the disc, then sure.

It is so easy to forget the problems of one's own favorite console while making fun of another's.

[Marthinus @ Dec 14th 2006 1:01AM]

If that is your way of convincing yourself that your Wii purchase was good, then fine, but the complex a system the more problems, but as soon as kinks are ironed out the PS3 will be the console everyone needs.

Delivering Windows 3.1 (Wii) to the world and comparing your lack of major issues to Windows Vista (PS3) is no comparison at all.

[Vidikron @ Dec 13th 2006 5:15PM]

@Jason

There's a difference between scattered/minor issues and wholesale issues that affect every unit. Plus Sony has simply committed one blunder after another. They have earned every bit of the flak they are now getting from the media and consumers. Nintendo has lots of good will with consumers. Take the strap issue. First off, that was simply an underestimation of how stupid some gamers are. Seriously, who the hell swings their controller hard enough to lose their grip, snap the strap, and then still have the momentum needed to break a TV? Anyway, yes, some people managed to do exactly that. But guess what? Wiis and Wiimotes in stores NOW already have new stronger wrist straps. That's some damn fast and impressive work by Nintendo. That generates good will with consumers. What has Sony fixed? Anything?

[michael @ Dec 31st 2006 1:19PM]

funny that i haven't had any of those problems with my wii, so clearly it is not an issue that affects all units. even better was that by the time i spent 600 dollars (PS3's retail price) i had my wii, 4 sets of wiimotes/nunchucks and 4 games...

[PreGHz @ Dec 13th 2006 5:00PM]

I understand that it might be a moot point, but shouldn't the comparison be done with both systems using component cables? It would help quell any yells of "different cables lolz" that people might bring up.

[StinkyChinkie @ Dec 13th 2006 5:00PM]

@bxbailey:

It's not so much that people "hate" the PS3 - its that the system f*cking blows goats. If it walks like it sucks and quacks like it sucks, it PROBABLY SUCKS. All the Playstation fanboy love in the world isn't going to fix BROKEN 1080i, $HITTY GAMES (read the reviews - all mediocre games, no killer app), and now they're going to screw all the early adopters by silently sneaking a rev.2 board into assembly line that fixes the 1080i problem in hardware because they realized they can't do it in software. One news story after the next point out problems and the fanboys say "oh you guys are just haters" - NO the thing SUCKS.

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 13th 2006 5:05PM]

"NO the thing SUCKS." - It's been working great for me so far. Then again, I'm not a hater ;)

[Jason @ Dec 13th 2006 5:06PM]

"and now they're going to screw all the early adopters by silently sneaking a rev.2 board into assembly line that fixes..."

Like Microsoft is doing with it's overheating CPU?

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 13th 2006 5:02PM]

Considering the fact that we don't have rampant reports of scratched discs, overheating, "red-light syndrome", flying controllers and the likes I think jaggy images is minor and patchable especially concerning backwards compatibility. How many of your old XBox games will load up on the 360 right now?

PS: The PS3 does run the games at 480p (which may be the problem running 480i games at 480p). I haven't been playing many PS2 games though since I got it, so I didn't even realize this was an issue. If so, it should be a firmware fix away.[/shrug] No biggy.

[DEEZNUTZ @ Dec 13th 2006 5:05PM]

Man I am loving this plunge that the SONY BS3 is taking. I just want them to fail... BADLY! Lik Sang, this is for you!
I love their TV's though (bit pricey)... and the 360 on a SONY BRAVIA looks awesome with Gears of War!

[Porsche 911 @ Dec 14th 2006 12:21AM]

Xbox360 sucks a lot, my Xbox360 is starting to freeze quite often, and it overheats a lot. Gears of War is a terrible game, I cannot believe that I paid $60 for that piece of crap. The game play was short, this game was supposed to be a launch title; however, they had delayed it for a year. They had an extra year to work on this game and it still sucks. The multiplayer option also sucks, it only supports two players, if Microsoft did not realize that my Xbox can support four controllers, WTF, we have to have Xbox Live to play it with over two players.

[Jr. @ Dec 13th 2006 5:06PM]

Just one more reason not to worry about getting a PS3 until sometime in '07...

[John @ Dec 15th 2006 6:38PM]

Well it's not like you can just walk into a store and buy one, anyway. The BestBuy here doesn't even have a floor model demo.

[Andir3.0 @ Dec 13th 2006 5:10PM]

Don't forget about the Wii straps...

[Veritas II @ Dec 13th 2006 6:11PM]

Andir, this has been discussed extensively on various forums, and someone said that God of War works fine when you turn on the progressive setting. That would seem to indicate that it's a de-interlacing issue. Don't have any games with a progressive option to test it personally.

[Jim @ Dec 13th 2006 5:09PM]

No, I'm really not tired of all this. I think it's hilarious that a $600+ piece of hardware can have this many problems with it, if you can even find it in the stores.

[michael @ Dec 31st 2006 1:22PM]

have you considered that after a week nintendo said that 6 people worldwide actually claimed new straps for their wii controllers. every game that boots up gives warnings about playing safe. nintendo could not possibly anticipate idiot gamers. i hold on to my damn controller, i don't throw it across the room. sony on the other hand probably could have tested some PS2 games on their 600 dollar piece of hardware, and figured out beforehand that it didn't work.

[Jr. @ Dec 13th 2006 5:12PM]

Not only does the PS3 blow goats...but I think most of the Sony fanboyz do too!

[Hohlraum @ Dec 13th 2006 5:22PM]

Yeah it is amazing how quickly Nintendo responded to the Wiimote strap issue. Almost like they already knew there was a problem and just sent out the initial systems with the fault strap anyway ... (I own a Wii with 2 of of the dental floss straps) We just got some of the skins nintendo made (they come with their own lanyard) for the remotes and use both lanyards. I'm confident my 61" DLP is safe :)

[Jason @ Dec 13th 2006 5:29PM]

@the wii comment. Look at Nintendo's commercials and then how they tell people they should use the controller. They contradict each other. The wii strap is nothing more than woven cloth. It isn't hardware nor did it need to be programmed. It is a simple fix. Programming isn't. It takes time and needs to be checked to so it doesn't brick systems.

Problems are problems and if they can be fixed, people shouldn't be so uptight and ignorant about them.

MS has had a lot of problems too. I don't see these same people bitching about them. That is the main problem I have. All consoles are having problems. Why is it only sony that is catching crap from people?

[Hohlraum @ Dec 13th 2006 5:17PM]

Man some of you posters a real jackasses. I'm glad sites are covering this glitch. This is the only issue I've had with my PS3. I don't really own that many PS2 games but half of them work fine and the other half have the jaggie issue. The only negative feedback I can give Sony is that they don't really like to acknowledge problems with the PS3 and let people know they are working on a fix. Then again, this is a problem with most large software/hardware companies.

[MrHoju @ Dec 13th 2006 5:20PM]

I can just see Sony's response... if you are having that much of a problem... play it on your PS2. If you don't have a PS2... buy one.

Before you call me a fanboy... I have all three new systems.

[Jason @ Dec 13th 2006 5:24PM]

I always find it funny when someone used the term "fanboy" and then insults a particular console as Jr and Stinkychinkie have. I wonder if they even understand the meaning of the word fanboy or of the word hypocrite.

[mel @ Dec 13th 2006 5:28PM]

everything is rushed out way too early now. the xbox overheated, wii strap, all the ps3 problems. you PAY the price for early adoption. if firmware is what it needs, firmware is what it needs, if it's a new board, it's a new board. at least you can sell it on eBay along with the other 80% of the 1st gen. ps3's. i'll bid $150.

[Jr. @ Dec 13th 2006 5:28PM]

But you don't see me supporting any one system, do you? So I'm neither a fanboy, nor a hypocrite. Just mark me down as a misanthropic sort...and while you're at it, shut your fan-hole.

[Evan @ Dec 13th 2006 5:26PM]

So you say all of PS3s games are just mediocre and there is no killer app? It took over a year for 360 to come out with Gears of War as their killer app. Wat about Wii? Zelda? It was made as a Gamecube game and they added in motion control (ooooooo ahhhhh).
At least the system isnt overheating @ launch too. People can actually play it. Remember when the 360s were overheating and u couldnt play for more the 30 minutes before the system shut down. Short memory you have the.

[Alex @ Dec 13th 2006 5:42PM]

BUT ZELDA WAS MADE FOR TEH WII, NOT FOR THE GC, U FILTHY LYING HATER, IT WAS PORTED TO IT!
OH, AND DON'T BUY THE PS3, IT SUX0R5 BOLL0X0R5!!!

Seriously though, good point, and screw all the fanboys trying to blindly support instead of weighing benefits and disadvantages...

[michael @ Jan 4th 2007 8:08PM]

have you played zelda? i don't think its hard for most people to agree that the game is amazing. yes i have a gamecube, yes windwaker was fun, and i'm sure twilight princess on it is awesome. you know what's more fun though? swinging my sword instead of pressing "B" pointing and shooting my arrow instead of using an analog stick. striking someone with my shield by thrusting my other hand forward. the motion control isn't meant to OOOOH AAHHH anyone, it's meant to make the player have more fun. but hey, keep mashing buttons, its easy huh?

[Loban @ Dec 13th 2006 5:28PM]

It looks like there's some 80s style crimping going on with that hair-do. Way to keep the 80s alive PS3.

[Vidikron @ Dec 13th 2006 5:58PM]

OK, fair enough about the Wii ads. They do show people going a bit crazy at times. But it's still a minor problem. I have a Wii and haven't even unwrapped my Wiimote strap... it's still got that green bind on it. It's only a few dumbasses and young childeren that have managed to break something. But at the end of the day you still have Nintendo's very quick response to the issue. Yes, it was an easy issue to fix, but they did it FAST. If the Wii was a Sony machine I bet my house on them not having new straps in stores just two weeks after the issue was reported. Instead, Sony's typical response it to first ignore the issue and pretend it doesn't exist. Then, after they finally acknowldege the issue, take forever to actually do something about it.

As for MS... you just simply don't remember. They caught a LOT of flak over the the overheating issues and and whole "red ring of death". People still bitch about that today.

So why does Sony get so much more flak than anyone else? Because they seem to screw up more than everyone else, even after promising so much more than anyone else. Plus, they generated a TON of ill will due to the whole rootkit issue. It has been just one fvck up after another with them over the past couple of years. Again, they have EARNED the extra scrutiny they are getting.

Plus, doesn't #1 always get more attention? MS gets hordes of bad mouthing on the PC side of things. Who hasn't heard a 100 MS jokes? Same applies here.

[Landlocked @ Dec 13th 2006 5:29PM]

I for one like #1 taking a beating; it keeps them from becoming complacent.

[sycks @ Dec 13th 2006 5:35PM]

That is by far the most honest answer I've ever read for bashing Sony.

I for one applaud you.

[Shelterpaw @ Dec 13th 2006 5:34PM]

None of the systems are perfect and there's always going to be issues with RevA models. This is the case with all computer hardware manufacturers. First adopters tend to pay the price. So yes, you get bragging rights, but you also get the headaches. I think all three systems are great and I will most likely buy the kids all of them next year. Just like I bought them the previous generation consoles.

[Shelterpaw @ Dec 13th 2006 5:41PM]

Also, those people that are mad at Engadget for what appear to be biased remarks I think you have it wrong. What I believe is companies are promising the world and not delivering it. In this day and age companies are so eager to ship products, that they often miss the target and then don't deliver on their promises. This behavior gets long in the tooth pretty quickly.

So when they have a negative comment, I take it as frustration that companies aren't delivering what they promised. They're (engadget) are pointing this out in order to get companies to produce a better quality product. It's about time. I mean who isn't tired of getting products with all sorts of faults and problems. Like cell phones with locked out features? I think it's well overdue for us (the customers) to bash them for it.

[Alex @ Dec 13th 2006 5:45PM]

aw shit it it didnt show my flame and endflame tags... :( just clearing things up here...
can someone tell me, if someone puts the "" signs, before/after sth, will it just systematically dissapear?

[Sizer @ Dec 13th 2006 5:52PM]

bxbailey @ Dec 13th 2006 4:48PM
> I just can't see them just reporting the facts without bias anymore.

It's not really bias to say the feature sucks when it visibly sucks and we have a dozen pictures showing how bad it sucks. Do you see how this works?