PS2, PS1 480i games hampered by crazy jaggies on the PS3
By Paul Miller 
posted December 13th 2006 4:20PM
posted December 13th 2006 4:20PM
[Via Joystiq]
posted December 13th 2006 4:20PM
Sony PlayStation 2 1st-gen
Sony PlayStation 3
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bxbailey @ Dec 13th 2006 4:48PM
> I just can't see them just reporting the facts without bias anymore.
It's not really bias to say the feature sucks when it visibly sucks and we have a dozen pictures showing how bad it sucks. Do you see how this works?
I wonder if they do this to make the PS2 games look bad, and the PS3 games look better. Kind of a smaller potatos make the steak look bigger type of thing. I hear PS3 graphics on new games don't look much better than the PS2. Must be because of bad dev software or something.
I can't say I own a PS3 or a Wii (but how many people can really say they do) but from my experience over a friend's house and at our fraternity house with the PS3 I don't think this can be called "hating" its called truth telling. Most likely a lot of the PS3 problems will be hammered out and it will become a viable console on the market but it sure was not worth risking your life over or waiting two days in line for or paying an exorbitant amount for. The launch titles are poor, the backward compatibility is poor, and truth me told it is a system with little innovation other than the blu-ray disc which to many consumers is not worth the price of admission or the headache of getting it. It is what i would consider a glorified PC.
To address the Wii, Im not going to lie my expectations were low. Why put out a next gen machine with last gen tech. It surprised me. You can play all your old throwback games on it from any system and you get the controller. The launch titles are not bad and there is innovation in the controls that is worth a try for the relatively low price tag.($250 is $250 but if you are in the market you have to pay to play) How long will it last? How long before people get sick of swinging there arm? I would venture to say the novelty may wear off but you won't kick yourself over $250 esp. when you can always go back and load up the original Mike Tysons Punch Out or Bonker for Turbo Graphics 16.
I do own an X-box 360, and it too had its stumbles but I think it has rebounded nicely. I think the business model of giving consumers the choice to buy the HD drive was good. It doesn't force the price up by tying in an expensive product the consumer may or may not want. Personally I think it would be a good idea to make the HD drive part of the premium bundle in the future or bundle it in another way but it is what it is. Right now the 360, has a strong game line up, strong support, strong community of gamers, and plans to further that in the future. This time Microsoft got the first mover advantage as Sony had with PS2 which kept PS2 ahead of the Xbox even though (look at the irony) the Xbox had a more powerful system and offered more at a higher price initially. I personally don't have any bias toward or against any system (however actually I am not a fan of Microsoft and I do like Sony and I grew up in the Nintendo generation, go figure) but I think if people stop letting Sony compete on brand loyalty and take a look at the facts their machine is sub par and what people are saying is not "hate" its truth.
It shouldn't be scaling anything at all. 640x480 is a required resolution for ATSC HDTV, progressive and interlaced, and is supported in European A/63 HDTVs as well.
Why do people get so mad when someone bashes a product that has NOT delivered what was promised? Me, fanboy? Nope, my PS2 got more gaming hours than my GCN or XBox combined. Hell I am still bouncing between Zelda and FFXII.
But I will bash the PS3, easily. Why? Cause Sony blew it big with the PS3. I had so much hope for the PS3 too, but it is diminishing fast! This is just another problem with the PS3. Maybe in a few years, when the price drops ALOT and IF there are great RPGs, I will buy one. But I have a bad feeling that Devs will jump ship and put games out on the 360 and Wii. Which would really suck, cause it would mean I will have to get a 360.
enough of this sony-haterade. Engadget and /. are turning into 24/7 sony bash blogs. think if wanted to get every computer geek to complain about a system, they could rip just about anything apart (even windows ME). The ps3 is fun to play, the graphics are good, and in comparison to hd-dvd and blu-ray, its a steal. Someone thank sony for selling the best priced and most featured player. Also, Sony has said on many occasions that the lifespan of the ps3 will be close to ten years. If there are a few problems in the first 500k units, and they want to ship 100 million, i think it'll be alright. Stop complaining about a system you probably don't have, and start talking up something useful like new games or new hardware
You see the 360 and Wii have had sporadic problems. Yes, somes 360s have overheated (and I bet some of that is due to bad placement, as mine doesn't even got hot on the outside If I have it on all day). Yes, the Wii has issues with some straps or some updates crashing the system.
The problem with the PS3 is these problems (such as backwards compatibility, 1080i) effect every console made! Also, the PS3 has been overhyped and unfairly markted as way superior to the 360 when again that just not true.
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Console Wars: http://www.gowafg.co.uk
for all the people going crazy over this, remember, this problem only occurs with certain games. Over 90% of the games work fine...
I just want to throw this out there about PS3 Blu-ray v. 360 HD drive the if you take the price of the premium 360 and add the price of the HD drive the price of the 360 is comparable or cheaper. Correct me if I'm wrong. So its not a "steal" particularly when you consider the fragmentation of the market for new releases in that some come on HD Dvds and some on Blu-Ray. Am Ive never had the 360 ever over heat and I've played it for hours and Ive left it on. Not to mention that it has not been in the best of places or position in that time. Perhaps people should consider taking PS3 criticism constructively instead of saying everything else is worse or attacking the critic.
Tyson, When you throw stuff out you should check your facts. The HD-DVD add on is only for movies no games allowed on it so no games will be released in HD-DVD, so no fragmentation of the market. Would you have rathered MS wait a year so they could have HD-DVDs availble in quantity?
I thought i replied to this morning but obviously not. Your comment makes no sense and I don't see the fault with my facts. When you buy the HD DVD drive its a separate attachment and does not replace the drive that plays games, you should check your facts. Yes it will be a little cluttered having two devices (the 360 and the separate drive that plugs in the USB port) but whatever at least I am not obligated to pay for it because i want to play Xbox unlike the PS3 where I have to pay for a Blu-Ray player that may or may not be supported in the future I.e. if you want to watch Miami Vice you have to watch it on HD DVD or DVD not Blu-Ray. Like wise there are titles on Blu-Ray and not HD DVD and that is the fragmentation maybe you should use your brain and not jump at people with nonsense comments.
Here quote from where engadget got this info (a forum :\):
"It is completely game dependent. Your examples check out on my PS3 as well. All is good with Tekken 5 or MGS."
So, it looks like on the PS3 side, the graphics are jagged and crisp, whereas on the PS2 side, the graphics are jagged and blurry. I can't help but think that this is to be expected given the nature of the PS2 being a previous-generation console. Of course, I'm sure everyone was expecting Sony to re-mesh every PS2 game in-hardware so that they'd have 1000x as many pixels as they did before.
Get real people, this is a constraint with the games themselves, not the system.
This is not merely an issue of improved interconnection and image sharpness bringing out inherent pixellation in the image that was present on the ps2. If you look at the comparison images, you will see that the amount the ps2 images are "blurred" (which is very minimal) is substantially smaller than the amount by which the ps3's images are jagged. The blurring present on the ps2 would not be nearly enough to hide the jaggedness the ps3 is showing - this is definitely a problem with the method the ps3 is using to rescale/deinterlace the ps2 titles for display. Whether sony can fix this without a hardware revision change, though, is still debatable.
As much as I love(d) Engadget, this Sony/PS3 hate-fest is really wearing on me, and I don't own ANY of the latest-gen consoles. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go back to playing Kart on the N64, 'cause there ain't no haters in Marioland.
You guys forget that PS3 is sold at a loss and the catch is people will/must buy expensive NEW games ....
So there will be no fix. It's bad business. Get the new ones and make Sony happy!
I'm a Playstation fan and I was skeptical at first so I tried it myself using component cables and got the same result. It look real bad, almost like PS1 quality.
I'm a Playstation fan and I was skeptical at first so I tried it myself using component cables and got the same result. It look real bad, almost like PS1 quality.
Your comments: I'm a Playstation fan and I was skeptical at first so I tried it
myself using component cables and got the same result. It look real
bad, almost like PS1 quality.
As someone who owns all three next gen consoles, i can tell you FOR A FACT that this is true. There isn't any sort of lie on engadget, everyone knows Sony dropped the ball big time with the ps3. It was obviously rushed to meet Christmas sale, and if it was delayed any further, the ps3 would have lost the next gen war, so I guess there was some justification for its early release.
Yes, everyone says that the 360 had problems in the beginning, which it did, but Microsoft took the initiative and fixed most of the corresponding problems. Not it is up to Sony to fix theirs. Nobody is saying that the 360 is better/worse, they're just saying if Sony wants to stay in this war, they better shape up or GTFO.
So stop all the fucking fanboy-isms. The site isn't biased- Sony hyped this thing to be the second coming of jesus, and guess what, not only did it not live up to the hype, it fucking sucked ass. The ps3 can't even upscale standard dvds, backwards compatibility is a fucking joke (jaggies, input lag, etc) some games are just not even enjoyable. Sometimes i sit there with my ps3 and i ask myself, what the fuck were you thinking sony?
I would just toss out the whole backwards compatibility thing and just move forward with the console. Just keep that ps2 handy.
Oh, and the people hating on the nintendo wii straps, give me a FUCKING break. That is nothing like on the scale of all the bullshit the ps3 has on it.
Could be a different algorithm is used to render some games on the PS2, and that has an adverse quality on the PS3. Could these games that have the jagged edge issue are games that were designed to run across different console platforms (PS2, GC, Xbox, etc)? Are the same issues found on games written specifically for the PS2?
I've used my PS2 on a LCD HDTV using component cables and there are much more jaggies. If the game can be run in 480p, then this makes an improvement. However, using a Euro scart cable on my ordinary sd crt TV has a cleaner image quality than 480p on a LCD.
I bet you PS3 games look better on the PS2.
I wouldn't complain too much. The 600 dollar ps3 cost Sony over 800 bucks to make. They make their profits in game sales.
Wii remote straps? Anyone bringing that up in comparison to an ACTUAL CONSOLE FLAW is probably the same moron that will swing their remotes as hard as they can, then let go of them and blame Nintendo for breaking something.
Oh you see the people on commercials encouraging this? Really??!! I have not seen the bowling commercial with someone letting go of the remote... I see people playing Wii Sports the same way me and my friends have played it with ZERO straps breaking. But then again maybe my friends, while drunk mind you, have a better grip than others.
To ShelterPaw, I agree with you completely. I think that there are prices to pay if you get the first batch of systems. I think Sony is getting a bad rap even though MS did it last year. I think they'll fix all of these problems and the PS3 will have a great lifespan. I disagree with you on the biased remarks that engadget has, they're overly biased against Sony and it shows. Look at the way they talk about microsoft and nintendo problems, then look at what they do to sony.
As for Alex, shut the hell up. If Zelda was made for the Wii then ported, wouldn't that suggest they they just made the same game for a system that was slower than the one they just released? I've seen both versions... the only difference is control.
talk about blindly supporting and not looking deeper
GAMEPRO PRO-TIP: It REALLY helps to know what you're talking about when discussing something.
omg...you must be kidding me. sony needs to get its' act together, NOW. I was planning to buy a PS3 when they became available but with all these problems and sony's god damn attitude/Jesus complex im really thinking of never buying a sony product ever again and getting rid of all my sony products now.
I for one am not a fanboy, and I don't try to be, but I think that Sony is getting all hatred because that it was over-hyped in the beginning and it's failed to meet the expectations that people had set for it. Every game system has had problems with it so far. When I got my Xbox 360 back at launch, I remember that people were saying how much it overheated, and I was afraid that I was going to be one of those people who had to dangle their power adapter from the ceiling by some string. Sony's problems just seem to be the fact that they over-hyped their product before it was released, and then when it was released, it didn't deliver what it said it was going to, and now you have people coming in here saying that "OMGZ THE PS3 SUX0RZ!!!1!11".
Get a life.
im sorry i almost forgot about lik sang like deeznuts said earlier on Page one this is for you liksang
_STAY AWAY FROM FONY GAY STATION 3_
warning if you have one quarantine it back into its original packaging and place it in the corner of your room by your weights and stack of P-boy mags and cartridge dust ridden classic systems until you get time to put it out on heavy trash pickup day till then it can talk to your classic game system and compare its jaggies with thier pixelation situation
but from my experience ps games are always jagged
Seriously, you guys posting here seem to be really overstating the problem (especially that one supposed ps3 owner). Please, click on the picture in the blog post. It will take you to the forum that reports these anomalies. Read threw this forum topic before posting!!!! Some people report not having these problems, some people report apparent quick fixes etc...
Well can't argue that 360 hasn't had it's share of hardware issues... hell I just got one a few weeks ago and I'm getting disc read errors. HOWEVER, you are on crack about Gears of WAR. Of course you are entitled to hate the game, but you are in a very small minority. You take a poll and I can guarantee that right now, Gears of War will rank as the best game out right now in any console. It ain't perfect, but it is next gen and should be recognized.
I didn't hate SONY till only recently... maybe it's their lack of negotiating with the HD-DVD camp to agree on one HD disc format, or perhaps the whole LIK-SANG fiasco, or the ridiculously high price on their PS3, but right now, I can't stand them. I know I may eat words if a killer game comes out on PS3 or Blu-ray movie that I really want, but that seems unlikely for me right now.
I must disagree with Porsche 911. Gears of War looks great and plays great. Especially on a Sony 34" XBR TV (CRT goodness for Ben Franklin and his nine twin brothers)
you cannot possibly say that the difference between the Wii and PS3 is that between Windows 3.1 and Vista...thats just absolute nonsense. people need to stop complaining about the technical downsides of a Wii. that's why its 250, and not 600. i'm a college student on a tight budget, and yeah i like to game. so i thought i'd chance not having suberb graphics in exchange for not wasting my lifes savings, and thinking maybe the gameplay would be awesome. was i and am i impressed? yes. wii sports could keep me entertained for the rest of my life and i don't give a damn that its visuals aren't amazing. slap better graphics on it and it still plays the same. besides if you've played resident evil 4 on a gamecube you've seen then that the little less powerful nintendo can still hold its own. its all up to the developers to utilize the hardware as efficiently as possible.
Petitiononline?
Btw: The term 'fanboy' should be sensored here, like on the [H] forums :P
On topic now, despite the PS3s many flaws, this isn't one of them. My PS2 shows the same jaggies when hooked up via component, a little less pronounced but they are there. They appear to be a way the PS2 rendered images to take advantage of composites displays shortcomings, because on composite they dissapear and the picture looks great.
What surprises me is the fact that no one has caught on to the screen centering flaw when running backwards compatable games, it's not horrible but some games (like Kingdom Hearts 2) I loose a quarter inch or so on the right hand side of the display (no TV controls don't bring it back) others I can overcome it if they have screen centering in the game(Sly Cooper Band of thieves).
NotNormal23224
I've had to screen centre on nearly all my PS2 games and I think I've had more than a hundred in the past 5 years.
You are right about the jaggies with component cables. Unless there is the option to use 480p I will see jaggies compared to my euro scart. When I've used the component cable it has been on a 40" HD LCD and when I switch on my PS2 the TV set itself in 576i.
I did not say Gears of Wars had a terrible game play, I loved the game play so much, and because of that reason, this is why I hate this game with a passion. This game had an awesome game play, however, it was too short, I completed this game under a day, and the multiplayer option is only for two players.
I did not say Gears of Wars had a terrible game play, I loved the game play so much, and because of that reason, this is why I hate this game with a passion. This game had an awesome game play, however, it was too short, I completed this game under a day, and the multiplayer option is only for two players.
For the comment about hating Sony about not agreeing on one HD disc format, it was actually Toshiba who wouldn't agree with Sony. So. Yeah. Drop the fanboyism and get the facts, please.
As for this whole jaggie debate, my PS3 will be here today or tomorrow, so I'm going to personally verify this.
However, I think using component cables on a PS3 will remedy the situation, as I remember 480i performance is always SHITE over HDMI.
The theory about the horizontal and vertical resolutions being eschewed is interesting though, and one I'm going to check it out fer shure.
big deal, in some games, it even looks better like this, and as long as i can understand what i'm seeing in a game, it's good
how about turn cross color reduction filter on then see if there's any noticeable shit to talk about
Is there anyway to complain to Sony so that this issue about PS2 game horribly playing on the PS3 gets fixed. I set up my PS3 just yesterday, and played FFXII and it looks horrible. CG and in-game graphic has lots of jagged edges while using the PS3, but this does not happen on the PS2. I wish Sony will take care of this problem sooner rather than later, for I still have some PS2 games to play and have not lots of room to have both PS2/PS3 consoles hooked up to my AV receiver.
Only one word for this: Oops.
I look forward to getting my hands on second- or third-revision versions of all the major consoles, and spending equal time gaming on all of them. THEN I'll make my own judgement... But I have to say that at the moment, the 360's edging more and more ahead in my mind. Granted, it has had a year's head-start.
One must wait and see, one supposes...
http://mymom.pledgepage.org
The PS3 sucks, end of story.
1st things first I don't Fanboys no matter what the platform!! It's just stupid cuz each platform has good game that we all can enjoy! To say one system is better than the other is just a bunch of horse menure!! So stop with the nonsense!! I know that fact to be true cuz it takes one to know one right? I was one of those people once upon a time.
Man I just bought the PS3 today and I'm wishing I would've bought the Wii instead and waited a little later for the PS3. I wish I would've seen this article and the youtube vid earlier. I'm so disappointed with the backwards compatability graphics. I hope and I'm it'll be fixed later. Anyways I just rehooked my PS2 to play my PS2 games and waiting for good games to come out on the PS3. Like what Gears of War did on the 360. I've had a 360 for about 6 months and it's so awesome and as for the backwards compatibility issue? Graphics aren't the issue. It's just trying to make the remaining xbox game compatible with the 360 which will be soon on all games. Most those games that have been available to play on 360 look the same as they did on the xbox1 and alot of times even better looking!! (this should debunk a previous comment about old games would natually look bad on HDTV which is totally untrue and proven by the 360 with it's xbox1 titles). Halo 2 looks awesome as well scores of other games that look amazing than the original! I was expecting the same with the PS2 games on the PS3, however that's not the case which was a total let down considering that I don't really care for the current batch games out. Right now the only thing it's good for is watching Blu-Ray movies which look pretty damn good! There's also a slew of other issues I have with PS3 which I will not go into detail cuz I'll be going off topic. Right I'm wishing I found a Wii instead and waited a little longer to get the PS3, but I'm totallly regreting buying on cuz I know there will be awesome games to be had by the PS3, but I'll just have to wait a little longer while my ps3 plays blu-ray discs or collects dust. For now it's back to my PS2 and my 360. Yeah just really disappointed on this backwards compatibility graphics issue. I discovered that the hard way and made it worse cuz I had high expectations of the PS3. Oh well... I'm sure they'll make up for it in due time.
This issue has now been fixed with the release of the version 1.5 firmware.