Mossberg harshes on Comcast's DVR (and says something or other about TiVo Series3)
By Peter Rojas 
posted Dec 29th 2006 3:35PM
posted Dec 29th 2006 3:35PM
Mossy has a pleasant little rant today about one of our biggest pet peeves here at Engadget: namely, how totally crap the DVRs offered by cable companies are, especially when compared with the new TiVo Series3. He focuses primarly on Comcast's abomination of a box, the Motorola DCT3412 (pictured above), but we can tell you that the garbage you get from Time Warner Cable isn't any better. Mossberg nails the dilemma facing every gadgethead who wants a DVR that can handle HD cable: you can either overpay for an elegant solution or cough up a few bucks a month for a frustrating, awful solution. The smart thing would be for the cable companies to license TiVo's technology, which would allow them to charge a little bit more for a premium experience, but still way less than the total cost of ownership of a TiVo Series3. That's supposedly what Comcast is doing (we're still waiting to see the first fruits of their partnership), but in the meantime we're keeping an eye out for the first CableCARD-ready Vista Media Center PCs. Nah, they won't be as cheap as a Series3 (at least initially), but at least you get a full-fledged PC for your money -- and there isn't a silly monthly service charge for program listings.
I don't know what all of the fanfare is about ... I have had the Sony HDD-250 for well over a year now and it does everything that the Tivo Series 3 does, does it better, also gets OTA HDTV, and has no monthly service charge. Plus, it was only $400 on eBay when I got it.
Yeah, and the 3 Sony HDD-250's I owned would not reliably record a TV series. Was great when it worked, though. Sony eventually bought it back from me.
I happen to love my TiVo!
With all the money Motorola is throwing around for acquisitions, I wish they'd snatch up TiVo and use the software for their boxes.
"Motorola - Powered by TiVo."
Not true. Your Sony only has a single tuner.
The sony is a single tuner unit, and it doesn't have the additional features of the TiVo, so I guess what you meant to say was that the HDD-250 does everthing the cable company box does but record two shows at once.
Fyi, the S3 gets OTA HD as well. Hope you are happy you got it early, because that and the monthly fee is the only thing it has over the TiVo S3.
btw, I picked mine up on ebay for $600
I have a similiar box as the one shown above from my local cable provider. It has 2 HD capabile tuners and can record from both. I don't know the size of the internal drive, but an hour of 480i television takes about 2-3% worth of space so it will hold around 36-40 hours of TV. I can set it up to record all new broadcasts of a TV show or anytime a show airs on one channel or any. What exactly is it that Tivo offers that my box does not? I'm not being an ass, I just don't know anybody with an actual Tivo. I pay $3 a month extra for my HD/PVR box from my provider.
The only real con's I've had with my box so far is that some programs are not listed as New or Repeat in their descriptions and it will sometimes record something that is a repeat despite being set only to record New or first runs of episodes. I just delete them when they occasionally pop up. Also, if the power goes out, the device usually takes about 10 minutes to pull down the latest onscreen guide information (everything just shows up as unavailable). Not a big deal, and it remembers the channel and time to record something, even if the guide hasn't refreshed, I just wish I could force it replicate.
Comcast has the Tivo software update in the works for their DVR. It has been test marketed in certain locations and I have an email from a fairly knowledgeable CSR that says it should be released in my area,Portland in Q1 2007. Lets pray...................
mossy actually harshed on this yesterday, in the print version of the wsj at least.
I have Comcast but with the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD. Other than picking shows for me based on what I watch it does everything TiVo does. Any problems I had earlier have been resolved with software updates pushed out to the box.
I have a piece of crap Moto DCT6412 series 3 v2 from Time Warner. I have had to swith it out 15-20x in the last year. The box is only good if you don't want to watch tv. I would love to have a Tivo s3. But it will take years to = in cost. I have had a Tivo s2 for years and never had a problem with it.
I have the abonimation of a box from Time Warner, mentioned above, and a Series 2 Tivo. In some regards, I prefer the TW/Moto box over the Tivo and don't find the UI or the experience to be that bad, or Tivo's to be that much better to justify the price. In fact, the TW/Moto box will at least let me delete/save a program directly from the screen I'm watching it on, whereas the Tivo forces you to go into its own main menu, select "Now Playing," select the program you're watching, and then delete. Too many steps for me, or I might not be using the Tivo properly (which I will acknowledge).
Also, the TW/Moto box will minimize whatever you're watching into a small window in the upper right corner, with audio, while you look through other menus. The Tivo menu takes over the whole screen if you decide to pull up something else. So if, say, you're watching an basketball game and want to see what's on other channels or what else you have recorded, you can do that with the non-Tivo box and still keep an eye (and ear) on the game while navigating. I can't seem to get my Tivo to do that.
Sophist:
push 'left arrow', then 'clear', then confirm the delete via 'select' and you're done.
I'm not harshing on your Tivo S3 ... it is a nice machine. I am just saying that it isn't groundbreaking. Yes, my Sony has only one tuner, but my HDTV has a built in HDTV tuner as well so I can record one HDTV program while watching another. MOST IMPORTANTLY, there is NO way in he11 that I would pay TIVO an extra $150 per year to use their overpriced piece of hardware ... that is just a bad business model that will be the downfall of TIVO. Do away with the monthly charge and I probably would have waited for the S3 to come out. However, now that I have seen it, I am very glad that I did not wait.
I had comcast for a very long time with their digital cable package. It was over priced and i consistantly had problems with their dvr box. We decided to ditch comcast and go to satellite when we were on our 14th dvr swap (swapping the one that wasn't working for a new one).
I have since gotten out of the contract for direct tv and went back to comcast. Only now we have the $10/month antenna service and a media adapter to stream off of my pc instead of the crap that comcast continues to shell out. Much better i think.
I heard Cox was going to implement the Tivo software on their Moto boxes as well
JOBS!! Steve!!! Where's iTV? Please SAVE US!!!
After living with the Tivo since it's inception many years ago, I was quite bummed out to be forced into using cable and their HD DVR in my new home. I must say I was pleasantly surprised with the 8000HD. It does almost everything a HD Tivo does with one GLARING exception. Many of the channels on Time Warner are "unrecordable," including IFC and Sundance. DRM be damned! This alone will make me spend the big bucks for a series 3. I only hope Time Warner will not restrict the recording of certain channels with the cable cards.
Are they doing this with the series 3?
"Harsh" is not a verb and "harshed" is not a word... Normally I get onto you kids about blindly choosing words from your thesaurus without regard for connotation, but using nonexistent words is really something else altogether.
haha, hugh jass. nice.
Chill daddy-o, you're harshing the vibe 'round here. Just remember: the english language is constantly evolving and changing with the times. If you're unsure of the appropriate verbage, just google it. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=harshed
Chill-out Brainy-Smurf. Everybody "KNOWS" you're right.
I --LOVE-- my Dish Network DVR/Tuner. I have the non-HD, dual tuner model. Great interface, simple, works.
I always love this answer to someone correcting grammar.
All I heard was, 'We should be allowed to add words to the language, no matter how complicated it makes it to communicate.'
The point of language is communication. Being understood by all persons, having a reasonable grasp on the English language, should be the foremost thing to consider when communicating. I think that most people that read this article, myself included, had to pause and think about what was meant by it's title.
I love that in your reply you link to a definition with two misspellings.
1. harshed
The act of someone having something harsh or unpleasent happaneing to them.
The title of his artice is very missleading....The HDTV Dilemma:Pay for TiVo's RecorderOr Settle for Cable's
I am surprised that an article like this came from Mossberg. He only compared Comcast to Tivo series 3 and somehow makes it a bigger HD dilema we all face WTF?
What about the VIP622 HD DVR from DishNetwork? It has dual HD tunners/recorders + an over the air HD tunner, outputs to two tvs and is only $200 leased.
Not all offerings from tv providers are bad.. stupid article
"What about the VIP622 HD DVR from DishNetwork? It has dual HD tunners/recorders + an over the air HD tunner, outputs to two tvs and is only $200 leased. "
Carlos, your DVR does not have diel HD tuners. How is it so many of you do not know the speccs of your own box? This is the second person I had to correct in this thread alone.
I have no issue paying the monthly fee for the Tivo service. The listings are FANTASTIC compared to everything else out there. So much more info, and usually pretty quick to correct timeslot changes and updates. If their guide data was as bad as the other cable companies I've seen, then yeah, I'd be miffed. But it isn't.
A Tivo without its excellent guide data would be a slightly better than crappy cable DVR instead of a freaking awesome DVR that it is today.
I don't understand what all of the fuss is about. I have a Scientific Atlanta box from Time Warner; it has dual HD tuners, does nearly everything the Tivo can and a few things it probably can't, and has been perfectly stable. I am very happy with it.
I never did understand the big fuss over Tivo -- who in their right mind would pay a subscription fee AND a one-time hardware cost when they need only do one of the two with comparable systems?
Let us not forget that those *insert your favorite expletive* comcast have also added Advertisements to the Guide Menu for all their digital cable. And raised rates. Instead of 9.99 for the DVR box, its now 11.95. And I still have bloody ads on my guide menu.
In the past month comcast has added these bloody advertisements on every menu screen, taking up one of the rows where shows used to be. Not to mention that the DVR fails if you leave it off and it tries to turn itself on to tape something. Best of all I can see the new skyscraper comcast is buidling with all its money being built here in philly from my apt. I wish they'd put a little more of that money back into the DVRs.
Sophist:
Push 'left arrow' while watching a show, then push 'clear', and then confirm the deletion.
Done.
I have Time Warner with the Scientific Atlanta 8300HD and I hate it. It's full of poor interface choices such as:
* If you start watching a show that is being recorded you don't have the option to start from the beginning-- you have to manually rewind from where the live show is currently.
* If you want to watch a show that is being recorded and don't catch up by the time the show is over, the DVR will just stop and switch to live tv.
* Recorded show lists are shown in HD, but the program guide is shown on screen in chunky SD.
* No options to continue watching where you left off.
* Confusing interface to choose recording options.
* Slow and unresponsive. I end up pressing a button wait a second, press it again, wait a second, unit catches up and executes two button presses.
I hate this thing. I miss my ReplayTV. I can't wait for cablecard support in windows.
I recently purchased the Series 3 TiVo for about $550 from Dell (yes $550) and transferred my lifetime subscription from my Series 2 for another $200. In my area, you buy the cable cards for $30 and there are no revolving rental fees. So I spent $810 for my Series 3 TiVo with no more money to spend.
I still think $810 is crazy expensive, but I echo every bad thing ever uttered about the Motorola DCT6412 series iii. This box is totally craptastic. After a few weeks with my TiVo Series 3, I'd say it was worth every penny...and now I'm thinking I should have bought another TivoHD from the deal at Dell.
Admittedley I've never used a Tivo, I've only heard of it's glory (I live in Canada where there is no Tivo yet).
Now I use a SA 8300HD from my Cable company, I didn't pay $900 for it, I don't pay outrageous rental fees (it's like $20/month for a dual HD tuner capable box with a 160GB drive, HDMI, component, coax and toslink, etc). It's not THAT horrible of a box.
Sure it might not have all the frills of Tivo, but it has two HD tuners, all the good video/audio connections, even a eSATA port on the back that is ACTIVE and can accept a 750GB drive in an enclosure to easily turn the box into a 910GB DVR without even voiding warranty.
It records TV, sometimes two shows at a time, I watch my shows when I want, the interface isn't awesome, but it's not horridly ugly, it works 'fine', and that's nice.
I think a lot of press is just tivo fanboys to be honest.
2 vlad:
One: You have never used a Tivo
Two: Tivo and the Comcast DVR (Time Warner DVR) are NOT comparable equipment. This is like saying an S-Class Mercedes-Benz is comparable to a Chevrolet Malibu. Yes they both will get you from A to B but no one would ever say they give you a comparable experience. Some people are willing to pay for a Mercedes.
TiVo has been availible in Canada for nearly 2 years...
Just thought I would spread the word because I still can't believe there are some Canadians left that think there's no TiVo in Canada!
hmmm ...
We're pretty happy with our $13/month basic cable and the $10/month Netflix subscription.
I don't know about other places, but the Charlotte, NC TWC HD DVR isn't all that bad. I mean, it's got dual tuners and a decent amount of storage, HDMI and optical outputs, etc (Scientific Atlanta 8300HD). The only thing that's kinda crappy is the interface. I would rather have the features/menu/interface of the Tivo, but overall I'm quite happy with it.
Agreed the Motorola's DVR's arent very good, but the Scientific Atlanta ones are even worse if you can believe that!
I bought an S3 the day they came out. And as happy as we are with it, I got an even bigger buzz when hanging out at honey's sister's - she's got a Comcast box on her HD set. Yes it works, and yes, the price is a lot better than TiVo, but it's so non-intuitive and PITA it's hard to believe the pointy-haired bosses let the thing out in such a primitive state. Yuk.
Long live TiVo!
cablevision's 8300 and 8300HD are pretty decent :dunno;
Ok, This is my first time here. Now I sorry for my bad use of the english lenguage.
I just need to remember about DT HDDVR. For me it just work and the good part is the price and the amazing good quality of DT.
Not every expensive toy it's worth it.
See ya
I have the Comcast Motorola 3412. I have a couple friends who have TIVO, and while it is a more elegant interface, it is really not that functionally superior to what the Comcast interface. All the comments from Chris above related to the Time Warner device do not occur on my Comcast DVR. It works very well for the cost - no additonal cost on the cable box fee $10 a month for the DVR service (going up to $12 in Feb (mabye TIVO menuing will come? That would be cool, though I won't get my hopes up).
Say all you want about TIVO being the "Cadillac" of DVR's, seems to me, with Series 3, it's really now the Porsche of DVR's. And, very few of us can afford, or need, a Porsche for our daily commute, when an Accord does the job just as well and in a reasonably similar level of comfort.
Also, I have never had a single problem with the DVR box and I've had it for seven months.
Don't leave DirecTV out of the "non TiVo=crap" department... It's an insult to call their new HD DVR anything less than beta, and it's functionality sucks in comparison.
Don't leave DirecTV out of the "non TiVo=crap" department... It's an insult to call their new HD DVR anything less than beta, and it's functionality sucks in comparison.
"I have the Comcast Motorola 3412. I have a couple friends who have TIVO, and while it is a more elegant interface, it is really not that functionally superior to what the Comcast interface."
I can only assume, then, that you don't really watch that much television, or you've never really used a TiVo for more than a few minutes. I have both, because I wasn't prepared to get a Series 3 at the cost offered, but every day that passes, I consider it more and more.
The Comcast DVR has twice deleted all my programs for no particular reason. One time followed a black-out. My TiVos didn't do that. The Comcast DVR only stores two days of programming forward in local memory...lose power or unplug it and it will be an hour before you'll get all your program info back. The TiVo stores two weeks worth of data on it's hard disk. As Mossberg described in his article, the Comcast DVR will often freeze up and stop responding to commands from the remote...then suddenly queue all the commands and execute them at once. So you'll hit the FF button to pass some commercials, but nothing happens. You'll press it a few more times, then try to pause, FF again, play, ANYTHING...and then suddenly it will go crazy executing them. Remote response time is slow and clunky (and the remote is quite possibly the second worst remote I have ever used...want to pause a program? Don't use the Pause key, that's only for OnDemand shows; to pause a DVR recording, you'll need to push UP on the navigation pad, etc.).
Want to search for a named show to record? TiVo uses a nice letter grid to navigate, updating the list dynamically on the side. Motorola's interface makes you roll a counter up or down to get to the letter and then updates after you move to the side....but remember, it doesn't keep program data very far in advance, so it's quite likely it won't even know when your show is on, let alone let you set lots of specific choices on that recording. The channel listing guide is much smaller and offers less information on it's grid....which now offers EVEN LESS, thanks to Comcast offering up ADVERTISEMENTS that take 20% of the grid real-estate. Scrolling through those listings is much clumsier than TiVo's intuitive interface too, of course.
These are just a few examples of the box's many deficiencies. It is a FUNCTIONAL box, but little beyond that. Anyone who says that it's the same either hasn't really used a TiVo or doesn't really watch that much TV on their current DVR to notice how bad it truly is, IMHO.
Oh, man, this is the heart of my problem with the Cox HD DVR (SA 8300 HD). I rant about it here (http://toscano.org/~pete/blog/archives/113) and here (http://toscano.org/~pete/blog/archives/135). With the 8300, you can search by the name of a show, but there are some caveats:
1. It's on a day-by-day basis. If you don't know what day your show is on, you have to try a search on every day of the week and, while it keeps more than 2 days of shows in memory, it's not much more.
2. You can't actually enter letters to search on. You tell the device to "search by show", then scroll up and down through the alphabet, choosing the first letter in the name of the show. You can only search on the first letter. It's also not smart about the alphabetizing. Every show that day that starts with "The" is categorized under "T". Every off-the-air timeslot entry is listed under "O". There are other examples of this idiocy, but you get the point.
3. You can't search across days, only within a day.
4. Wishlists? Yeah, I wish.
My wallet can only pray that the Cox + TiVo partnership DVR comes out soon. I'm not holding out too much hope though, because Cox never fails to disappoint. They first said "1st half of 2007." Now, their people are saying "sometime in 2007." I'm half ready to bet that we'll see a S4 TiVo before this partnership DVR comes out.
Pleh!
I was a Tivo early adopter, moved to a Series 2 as soon as they came out. Yes, i was that annoying guy at work singing the praises of Tivo. And then I waited for HD support. And waited. And waited.
Long story short, I broke down and am renting a Motorola box from Charter with Moxi. The Moxi interface is pretty darn good, some quirks compared to Tivo, but nothing like the #(&^% that I have seen with friends and relatives who have Comcast and Time Warner. It will take a big price drop for me to get a Series 3. Tivo took too long and lost the market.
Also Tivo, where's Tivo-to-go for the Mac? I'm still waiting!
Too bad to see a company with a good product lose the market because of developemnt delays.
I have the dct3412 from comcast and im happy with it. I havent had any real problems with besides for the response time of the remote.
I was wondering how would the ondemand service work if I had a tivo and comcast?