Never mind Vista, here's Fiji and Vienna

Face it, Windows Vista is just so played these days. With that preliminary biz release under its belt, we're ready for bigger and better things, and luckily a certain "jameskyton" drive-by-blogger has the low-down for us on Vista's successors, Fiji and Vienna. James calls Fiji a sort of "Vista R2," which should include most of those fancy features Microsoft had to cut out of Vista to get it released this century. Highlights include the reappearance of WinFS, which will sit on top of the NTFS file system; a more full-featured sidebar app; tight Windows Live integration, especially when it comes to media; built-in playback of HD DVD; Next-Generation Secure Computing Base; and possibly even a Garage Band clone called Monaco. There will also be the usual interface and other minor enhancements you can expect from such an update, but Fiji has nothing on Vienna, which is purported to feature a complete overhaul of the OS, including a break in compatibility with "all applications," though hopefully Microsoft will have some Apple-esque transition schemes in place before that time comes. The fresh beginning will give Microsoft more OS-building freedom than it has had in a long time, but right now it sounds like they're a bit too excited about this: Vienna will supposedly do away with the Start Menu, toolbars and menus in favor of some sort of pie-menu interface, WinFS-t-the-core and search, potentially leaving long time users stranded with a brand new interface to learn from the ground up. The OS will also feature beefy speech support, along with a sandbox mode for running non-managed code without risking your security. Much of this is hearsay so far, and we're really hoping Microsoft doesn't go off the deep end with Vienna, but we're still curious to see what they have up their sleeves after being cooped up so long ironing out Vista bugs.

[Via Slashdot]

[mtgavitt125 @ Dec 30th 2006 7:18PM]

ol' Steve looks like he's waiting for something to happen, like "cmon, cmon, almost...!"

[Robert M. @ Dec 30th 2006 7:37PM]

Um guys... this guy only has one post. Why would you consider any of this fact? The fact that Microsoft doesn't want to break compatibility ought to have given you your first clue. Most of those "features" are total crap. Jim Allchin already told me what to expect in my recent interview. (http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/archive/2006/11/08/blogcast-show-1-jim-allchin-interview.aspx), and ti wasn't about "breaking compatibility". It was about virtualizing applications and the application level.

[Rospaya @ Dec 30th 2006 7:37PM]

Why doesn't MS make a OS for normal home users (ranging from noobs to power users) and one for corporate users. Home users just want a good and stable OS that they can do whatever the hell they want with it, and business users need stability security and compability with current business applications and processes.
It sucks that i have to use an OS that isn't intended for me, but for some cubicle guy that uses 3-4 apps in them. Make us happy MS!

[kvn @ Dec 30th 2006 7:38PM]

hehe they are catching up with apple, err apple in 2002 and this wont be out until post 2010, meh, good luck MS you'll need it.

PS, no talk about the Zune?

[Das @ Dec 31st 2006 11:59AM]

Just wondering, by "catching up" do you mean in market share or in popularity?

[Derry Quinn @ Jan 18th 2008 7:01PM]

In innovation...

[emeraldtears @ Dec 30th 2006 7:41PM]

Hey, I won't tell you how I know, but I will say that the "Monaco" reference is in no way accurate - not the right platform, hell not even software.

[Ethan @ Dec 30th 2006 7:54PM]

Vienna..now that'll be a sight for sore eyes.

[JMajor @ Dec 30th 2006 8:01PM]

You know Vista is going to suck when someone tries to sell you on the next two OS releases.

XP was supposed to be The Next Great Thing. Then it was Longhorn aka Vista--everything else was going to wither and die in the face of this MS juggernaut.

Let's face it: Microsoft's ability to innovate and develop great new software is in serious trouble, at least if they continue this path of pushing massive overhauls of Windows and "revolutionary" features.

Vista isn't even out, for the love of God. It will undoubtedly need two Service Packs to function satisfactorily. After the second one, let's talk about Fiji and Vienna.

Interesting that NO time frame is mentioned for these two future releases...

[Mr. Picklesworth @ Dec 30th 2006 10:20PM]

Fiji /Is/ Vista Service Pack 1. (And it sounds like a damn good service pack, considering that it's free. There's a lot more there than some of Apple's much-anticipated money-costing updates).

Other than that, I agree with you.

I am looking forward to seeing what they really plan with Vienna, though. I bet it's going to be a glorified text console :P
(And hopefully by then, there'll be an abstracted Linux shell system that turns plain English into complex commands...)

Anyway, breaking old compatibility is not the way to go. This windowing system stuff is all open-ended for a reason: You can have a radically different desktop environment running the exact same applications as another. It takes some imagination to come up with things to add on top, but it is very possible. For example, little features like setting my own menu accelerators in Gnome really give it an edge! (And yes, that feature is specific to the desktop environment).

[helio9000 @ Dec 31st 2006 7:08AM]

What are you talking about? Every company does this sort of thing. Same thing happened when XP was released - they were already talking about Vienna and showed WinFS (and, actually some features that people claim where stolen from OS X) a few months later. I assume though, that you will bring this point up again when speculation starts on what is next for OS X the day after Panther is released.

[Luis aka yousux @ Jun 22nd 2007 2:11PM]

Panther? didnt that happen like 2 OSes ago?
dude go get some edumacation... please

[Jonathan Keim @ Dec 30th 2006 8:27PM]

"Vienna will supposedly do away with the Start Menu, toolbars and menus in favor of some sort of pie-menu interface, WinFS-t-the-core and search, potentially """"leaving long time users stranded with a brand new interface to learn from the ground up."""""

Wow, they really want to get rid of their customers don't they. People that would get rid of windows put off going to apple or linux because they aren't familiar with it. If they are forced to learn a new interface and they are looking to get rid of windows anyway, they will!

[WilliamBlake @ Dec 30th 2006 8:27PM]

When is all this "phenomenon bits & bytes" going to happen ?

2050 ?

I think at the time MS can launch "another Vista meant to be" revolutinary system our concept of computer will be so diferent from nowadays that there's nothing to talk about.

I beleive in what I can touch, use and see, OS X.

I still can't buy Vista's Panther wannabe OS in any regular shop.

Holy sh**t !!!

[Keaton @ Dec 30th 2006 8:33PM]

I don't care if the graphic interface is going to be different for Vienna... By 2010 or 2015 or whatever, things better be different. Windows has pretty much looked the same since Windows 95. 15 or 20 years is a long time for something to look and act exactly the same. I'd love to see a good graphic overhaul... Maybe a ring type of interface?....

[drakonen @ Dec 30th 2006 8:35PM]

At least we can still hope (or not), look how office 2007 turned out. When Microsoft decides to screw over it's existing user base for the sake of innovation, maybe good things can happen.

[SporkRocker @ Dec 30th 2006 8:43PM]

Each time I see that picture, I always imagine those 3 funny looking execs, talking and muttering about, money,hrm money, money.

I don't know why I have been hearing this. Xp can't support more 2gb and more than 2 cores. This sounds like ludicrous jazz. Microsoft sounds unwilling to add these two minor little tweaks into Xp, for all the reasons why I care to have Vista. Can't my computer just be happy at full potential on xp instead on another +300 prem OS loaded with more junk and resource hogger applications...

[Rick @ Dec 30th 2006 8:48PM]

Over-promise, under-deliver. The Microsod Way®.

[Muzzia @ Dec 30th 2006 9:11PM]

don't be too hard, Vista is still bringing me some money on trendio, that's the most important http://www.trendio.com/word.php?wordid=1937&language=en

[T222 @ Dec 30th 2006 9:55PM]

Vienna is, in fact, an old project of Microsoft. There were "ideas" of a Vienna-like OS way back to the development of WinXP (or at least, there were rumors). It was supposed to be the next-gen Windows (after XP). Looks like it was too hard for them to do what they promised, and released VIsta, to gain some time.

About the pie-menu...I dont really think its going to work out very well. For short commands, sure. But look at Maya, or even the Sims 2, you get lost looking for the right choice.

For more info (I didnt get my info from here, but this is pretty much accurate): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vienna

[sla8884 @ Dec 31st 2006 12:25AM]

MMMMMMMM I like Pie :)

[Manny @ Dec 31st 2006 12:25AM]

MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM I like Pie :)

[Brandon Paddock @ Dec 31st 2006 12:33AM]

This guy is full of crap - absolutely nothing about "Fiji" on there is true.

[Brandon Paddock @ Dec 31st 2006 12:40AM]

SportRocker -

Windows XP (32-bit editions) CAN support more than 2GB of memory. They can address a full 4GB memory space. On most systems, some address space is reserved by the video card and other system components - so if you have 4GB of RAM and lots of video memory, you won't be able to use all of that RAM because there's no 32-bit address space left to map it to.

However, 32-bit Vista suffers this same limitation. There is a workaround in both XP and Vista called PAE (Physical Address Extension) but its usefulness is limited and requires compatible hardware. And if your motherboard says it only supports 4GB of memory - that means it only supports 4GB of address space, no matter what OS you're running. Linux is bound by the same constraints, for example.

A 64-bit OS (be it Windows XP/2003, Vista, or Linux) does that have that limitation - ASSUMING your hardware also supports greater than 32 bits of address space. So even with a fully 64-bit OS like the x64 editions of Windows, you will need a motherboard that supports MORE than 4GB of address space, in order to actually use more than 2-3GB of RAM. Make sense?

Macs actually suffer from the same problems, but even worse because they don't have *any* true 64-bit addressing support in the OS. Though that will probably come in Leopard - just like a Windows machine, it won't matter to you if your hardware can't support >4GB of address space.

[Brandon Paddock @ Dec 31st 2006 12:44AM]

Correction to my previous post - the third paragraph should begin:
"A 64-bit OS (be it Windows XP/2003, Vista, or Linux) does *NOT* that have that limitation"

[Brian @ Dec 31st 2006 1:29AM]

Great... now the 360 and PS3 are out the door, we have something new to blindly speculate about for the next decade.

[Brandon Paddock @ Dec 31st 2006 3:04AM]

Kev, as I blogged at BrandonLive.com - WinFS is dead.

And when it wasn't, having it "replace NTFS" didn't make any sense. WinFS is not and never was a file system - it requires NTFS (or another filesystem) by its very nature.

The list is a farce.

[Murc @ Dec 31st 2006 5:18AM]

yeah, this is all BS.

The only OS Microsoft is thinking about right now is Vista...which ships to consumers in just 1 month. I Plan on picking up Home Premium, in around 6 weeks.

[lp @ Dec 31st 2006 6:10AM]

Um, of course Microsoft are going to be thinking of the next thing.

Do some of you think that whenever a company does something that's all they think about? If so you're incredibly naiive.

Microsoft (& apple, etc) are always thinking in roadmaps, this is very elementary, but it's interesting to see what the roadmaps include.

[steve @ Dec 31st 2006 11:19AM]

so more services running...
are the min system requirements going to be
8-core 6GHz CPU
with 20gb of RAM
(im just guessing it will be released in 2040)

[steelmonster303 @ Dec 31st 2006 9:43PM]

Forget the interface, how about a STABLE OS??? I can't even remeber the last time my PC shut down without me physically holding the power button!

[JoelZ @ Jan 1st 2007 7:19AM]

More Windows? In the future the revelation will be "Windows 3.1 Ultimate", requires PC:

4,0 Thz CPU(Min)
640 Gb RAM (Min)
30 Tb HDD (Min)
Video 4D with 4Gb RAM
KeyBoard and Mouse...

Ouch! the "modern" Windows is break!

[Daniel @ Jan 1st 2007 4:26PM]

I've been using vista for over a month now and i must say it is very stable and seems good. Nothing amazing but is a nice upgrade. However Office is something else, i love the new office, the new ribbon menu system throughout office is really nice and a true innovation. So if Vienna or Fiji can re invert the OS like what office has then i think Microsoft will be OK. i think 2007 will be a good year for microsoft.

[patrick @ Jan 1st 2007 8:53PM]

http://roughlydrafted.com/RD/Q4.06/4E2A8848-5738-45B1-A659-AD7473899D7D.html


just read it...... microsoft creates buzz of its comming os when it launches a new os... so everyone compares the existing competing os to the announced microsoft os not the launching one and the competitions seems retarded......

read it....

[fli @ Jan 1st 2007 8:53PM]

Why do you apple guys always have to dis windows even when no one is Dis the mac, you just have to say some shit like ms sucks or no body will buy vista , vista sucks .. i mean why do you guys do it. You don't mention that know body uses that OS or nobody buys mac's.. See what is just did i used to same generalization that you idiots use to support your logic, but the messed up thing is mine could be interpreted as fact based on the numbers, your logic is just your opinion. If you really THOUGHT your OS was better you would not care if the other OS sucked because you KNEW you were using a superior product. But i think you know nobody cares

[kD @ Jan 2nd 2007 1:23PM]

I have to agree with Fli. It's really annoying when all you Mac users jump on every single thing Microsoft does. Most of your "facts" (I use this term extremely loosely) are based plainly on opinion. I have been personally using Windows for well over 8 years now, I've never incurred software problems or cases of instability with the OS. I have faced hardware problems that have caused Windows not to function properly, but that is NOT Windows fault (I blame HP).
It's time to get your facts straight, and STOP Windows bashing.

[nigel @ Jan 24th 2007 6:55PM]

i am disgusted by viena

[Ron C @ Jan 30th 2007 6:07PM]

MS can't come out with a new OS for a while - they have already caught up to Apple by ripping off a large portion of features the Mac OS has had for years. For MS to innovate new features, they have to wait and let Apple inovate them first, then rip them off, er, INNOVATE them themselves.