Xbox 360 ready for homebrew?

One of the best things about the original Microsoft Xbox console wasn't the fact that it ran games. Oh no, for many, the best part was the ease at which that low-cost / high-powered device could be hacked to run all kinds of Homebrew applications including a damn fine media center. Now, in a tantalizing bit of showmanship put on by a cloaked hacker at the 23C3 Hacker Congress in Germany, a modified Xbox 360 (note attached circuit board) is shown loading Ubisoft's King Kong game just before displaying a trio of dancing 360, Tux, and (old) MacOS logos with the words "coming soon." Could this be a true exploit of King Kong's unchecked and unsigned vector shaders? We don't know, but the ability to execute any kind of code is certainly progress. Besides, with the games already loosed, can the mod-chips and homebrew from a highly motivated hacking community be too far behind? See the complete video after the break.

[Via Xbox360 Fanboy]

[strider_mt2k @ Jan 1st 2007 9:09AM]

Go man go!


Happy New Year, Engadget!

[Frode @ Jan 1st 2007 9:51AM]

While I don't know when this was shot, crackers and devs love releasing big stuff on Christmas Eve, 1. Jan, 1. April etc. times like that.

[Rick @ Jan 1st 2007 10:10AM]

WTH? This is false advertising, isn't this supposed to be about homebrew? Here I was, expecting some cool new recipe for a lager.. sigh

Happy New Years!

[bob nojob @ Jan 1st 2007 10:36AM]

while clumsily getting an image to bounce around the screen is far from running linux or osx you gotta admire his nerdy ambition.

[oliver @ Jan 1st 2007 10:41AM]

that was it? an animation saying "coming soon"?

[Dull @ Jan 1st 2007 10:51AM]

Soon the Jawas will be able to make a droid out of the 360.

[Matt B. @ Jan 1st 2007 10:51AM]

if it comes from C3, you really don't need a grain of salt. these guys don't mess around - it's the real deal.

[Dawn @ Jan 1st 2007 11:02AM]

You know.......for it being a geek convention the video quality is awful.

It's really bad.

[Will @ Jan 1st 2007 11:05AM]

"...or many, the best part was the ease at which that low-cost / high-powered device could be hacked to run all kinds of Homebrew applications including a damn fine media center."

The XBox homebrew was a black eye for legal homebrew. There was an effort to make legal,free tools to do XBox development (the XBox OpenXDK being more prominent) but it was largely dismissed due to the large mass of lazy people who were comfortable using Microsoft's official SDK. This illegal due to the fact Joe Blow is not licensed to do so, and those binaries created with an unlicensed official SDK are unsigned code. Further yet, most of the mods (correct me if I'm wrong) needed or in some way contained code from the XBox's dashboard. This was the case for all the mod chips except for (that I can think of) one: a chip that used the previously mentioned Open XDK.

Has the XBox 360 sceners gone legit! Since a hacked King Kong game is shown here, I highly doubt it. I won't go celebrating just yet, Engadgeteers! I have to wonder if the release of XNA has something to do with any of this....

[Will @ Jan 1st 2007 11:13AM]

Next time I'll proofread what I type. I have 3 people in my ear right now, I should pay attention to this meeting...

[Mad Dick Bones @ Jan 1st 2007 11:42AM]

Clearly a fake. There's a number of ways this could have been made:
1) The kiosk disc "hack," where you replace one of the wmv's on the disc and have the movie file play.
2) A simple burned DVD movie
3) A KVM switch that's switch to the computer's screensaver soon after the game loads.

Sorry, but the lack of... anything leads me to believe this is fake.

[strider_mt2k @ Jan 1st 2007 11:47AM]

@Dull

What I really need is an XBox 360 that understands the binary language of moisture 'vaporators.

[MacGyver @ Jan 1st 2007 12:52PM]

Ok, the whole legal-illegal thing is crap, it's MY xbox, it should not have been locked out in the first place.
Where in the real world would you allow this?, "Sorry this glass only holds pepsi, not coke", "I'm sorry sir, the bass and treble knobs are NOT to be moved, doing so violates the DMCA", "This VCR is designed only to play commercial movies, home recordings are not authorized, the MPAA has been sent a message involving your misdoings"
It was a crippled Pentium III 733, would you accept the same crap if your normal computer was crippled to run only the programs they deem worthy?
People did what they had to do, (things they shouldn't have had to do), to use their property the way they wanted.
I can't stand it when people defend Microsoft; it's not anyone’s business what I do to anything I own after I give them my money. Period.
As far as their dev kit is concerned, well, if it had a regular bios from the get go, there would be no need for their dev kit.
I understand they wanted to prevent pirated software, I can agree with them, but why not make a key for homebrew; their encryption was cracked because there was no homebrew outlet. Compare their Media Center Extension crap to XBMC (homebrew), I have yet to find a better program anywhere, on any hardware, that is better then XBMC.
You can’t buy a program better then what a free homebrew has done. Microsoft’s pathetic program would ONLY stream WMV, why, not because it couldn’t be made to play others, but because they choose not to allow others. You also had to install software on your XP Media Center computer (normal XP wouldn’t work) Well I choose to stream EVERY CODEC EVER MADE (including FLV, MOV, and RM) on what ever OS I choose. They did the same thing to the 360, which is why I won’t buy one until it’s cracked.
If they want to lockdown their console, go back to carts (4gig SD cost $50 retail), because if you use a computer as your core, and put a DVD drive in it, people are going to want to use it the same as any other computer they own.

[Lattyware @ Jan 1st 2007 1:31PM]

Wrong. It's not illegal to run the homebrew (or at least, you running it isn't why it's illegal).

You have to pay M$ to use the official SDK. They arn't paying, It's illegal, unless you can compile the code using something else

Hence the need for Xbins.

I understand your point, but if you don't like it, don't buy the console.

I don't like DRM and the like - I run Linux.

[jlh @ Jan 1st 2007 1:46PM]

I cannot believe that there are still people who think this way even after the many, many, many times it has been reiterated by IP owners and lawmakers. Just because you drop a few hundred dollars on a white box does not make you the owner of the years of development, thousands of hours of work and billions of dollars that went into making that console what it is. Whether or not you agree with the DMCA, does not matter it is the law; and whether or not you like those wonderful EULAs that all of the console manufacturers have you agree to before you use their products also doesn't matter, the limits on your "ownership" of the console is spelled out for you from the beginning. You do not buy MS's intellectual property you buy the right to use the console they sold you in the way they have set forth for you to use it, if you don't want to do that then don't buy the console. If you want a computer where you can choose the os, choose the applications and hack away at it to your heart's content then buy a computer but don't buy a console and cry about it being locked down when every console from the beginning of time has had the same restrictions.

[Earl @ Jan 1st 2007 1:51PM]

Amen!

[tphil9 @ Jan 1st 2007 1:57PM]

well said.

[Pappy @ Jan 1st 2007 2:06PM]

Um. How necessary is this in light of XNA? The 360 already has an officially-sanctioned method of running homebrew code.

Ah well, cool if just for it's inherent geekiness, I guess.

[MacGyver @ Jan 1st 2007 2:37PM]

People like me jlh? People who think that something I paid for belongs to me?
What blows my mind is the fact that there are people like you that have been programmed to believe that something you own isn't yours.
You must have forgotten that ALL of modern society owes itself to common people improving upon current inventions.
My iPod doesn't have a little door to change out the batteries, but that won't stop me. You must think that’s wrong too. How about my ink cartridges, when they run out, do you think that it is illegal to refill them myself (as per Epson's lawsuit)?
Where do you draw the line? Something isn’t wrong just because it’s illegal. What’s wrong is our lack of representation against laws tailored for corporations’ profits.

And Lattyware, Microsoft doesn't sell their SDK to homebrew programmers. So:
1. Number of units sold to homebrew programmers: 0
2. Total profits from sale of SDK to homebrew programmers: $0
3. Number of unofficial SDKs used by homebrew programmers: 4000?
4. Total loss of income due to the 4000 programmers: $0
Whether they have it or not makes no difference, because there is no way for them to get it in the first place. Therefore, no profit loss on SDK. Now if they sold it to homebrew programmers, you would be right.


BTW, I will buy what I wish, and do with it what I like. That's what freedom is, and if it's against the law, then I'm a criminal.

[Gary @ Jan 2nd 2007 12:26AM]

@MacGyver

Yes, MS DOES SELL SDKs TO HOMEBREW! http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/XNA/default.aspx

[Discosis @ Jan 1st 2007 3:46PM]

Maybe we'll see an XBMC360 that can handle high def content :)

[MacGyver @ Jan 1st 2007 5:16PM]

For the 360 only. Not the Xbox 1.
From their site:

Q: How much does XNA Game Studio Express cost? Is there a difference between Windows and Xbox 360 development?
A: Visual C# Express, the XNA Game Studio Express tools and runtime environment for Windows are all FREE.

Q: Can I create non-gaming applications (such as a Media Center/Player) with XNA Game Studio Express?
A: On Windows this is possible, but the initial release on Xbox 360 is tuned to writing games. This is an area we are actively looking to the community for feedback on the types of applications they want to write for their Xbox 360.

Q: Does the XNA Framework include the ability to use Xbox Live?
A: The initial release of the XNA Framework on the Xbox 360 does not have any support for networking.

BTW this isn't really a dev kit. It's a good start, and it's better then java only apps. (I'm pretty sure the dev kit for the big kids includes functions for networking, and playing videos)

I don't know if they'll ever open up the networking support, but if they do, I expect to see a shinny Easter egg in the form of a media player hidden inside a game or two.

I love that second one, "we are checking to see if people really care about these type of apps" hmmm, enough people seemed to haved asked to make it into their small FAQ, I'm thinking yes. Give us what we want already.

[andy @ Jan 2nd 2007 1:29PM]

"Q: Can I create non-gaming applications (such as a Media Center/Player) with XNA Game Studio Express?
A: On Windows this is possible, but the initial release on Xbox 360 is tuned to writing games. This is an area we are actively looking to the community for feedback on the types of applications they want to write for their Xbox 360."




I would venture to guess that what we really want is to develop the number 1 app on the xbox 1 for the xbox 360, but this is coming from someone whose xbox 1 is the most important part of his entertainment center and he doesn't even use the DVD drive in his xbox 1, so I might be a little biased.

ps: I just made one (xbox with XBMC) for my 60 y/o mother in law after she saw mine. She has never played video games. Guess why she wants the xbox.

[rualanthony @ Jan 1st 2007 5:24PM]

know this is off the topic but i wanted some views. My 360 just got the 3 flashing red lights and i was wondering was it because i had too much hooked up to it. I have my 360 in a pelican fan stand. my hd-dvd player is hooked up to the 360 via usb,my wireless adpator snaped on the back of the hd-dvd,the fan stand plugged into the second slot of the hd-dvd. Since the fan stand usb is double-sided, i also have my live camera plugged into the fan stand usb. Do you think this might have cause the 360 to die because it was draining too much power?

[Jason Lynx @ Jan 1st 2007 8:22PM]

rualanthony -

I would first buy a 360 before talking about it.

[Tom @ Jan 1st 2007 10:46PM]

The devkit doesnt have to be a hardware based devkit. There are hsdks and standard sdks......hint. They both end in Dev-Kit.


and someone has to be providing those SDKs to the homebrew developers. Now, granted, they dont lose any money inherintly in the fact that the homebrew devs dont have legitamate access to the software. Let me paint a picture as to when they WOULD lose money.

I want to start a game development company. I download the xSDK software onto my computer, chip my system, and learn to code. I stabilize the game, and pitch it to a publisher that promptly picks it up. The game sells thousands of copys at 20 bucks....and gets me known worldwide. Microsoft lost money in that by me not paying for the 4k xSDK. Odds are I wont change my development strategies and methods because microsoft doesnt like it. they lose money. that is illegal. that is piracy.

[PiTT @ Jan 1st 2007 10:48PM]

is the guy that is putting the power supply in wearing a gray thong?

[Wade Mealing @ Jan 2nd 2007 1:17AM]

> BTW, I will buy what I wish, and do with it what I like. That's what freedom is, and if it's
> against the law, then I'm a criminal.

Guess I am too.

Well said.

[Beastyboy @ Jan 2nd 2007 3:21AM]

The 360 is upside-down...

[BOB @ Jan 2nd 2007 9:31AM]

> BTW, I will buy what I wish, and do with it what I like.
(as long as it does not impose upon other peoples rights, i.e microsoft)
The homebrew is not the problem, its the stolen games that they dont make any money on. Thats why they sell the systems for a loss.

That's what freedom is, and if it's (america is not a free country its a republic)
> against the law, then I'm a criminal. (you are and so am i)

every say the pledge?
"I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the REPUBLIC for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

[Jebby Deringer @ Jan 3rd 2007 11:15AM]

Homebrew IS a problem for Microsoft if they aren't making any money off it. If everyone is playing free software then less people are playing bought games and more people are buying consoles (at a loss for Microsoft). I don't agree with the whole system but I understand it from a business sense.

The issue of Microsoft not supporting a lot of media is partly because it wants to push it's own formats and save money. If Microsoft supported all formats it would run into problems with possible lawsuits or licensing fees driving the cost of the console up. While some codecs are open source others are not.

If Microsoft was to make an Xbox with no restrictions to software that plays all media formats the initial cost would have been much higher. Don't complain about it and just stick with your Xbox or upgrade to a 360 when modding is possible.

[Keaton @ Jan 2nd 2007 1:02PM]

Could the thing attached to the 360 have been a bluetooth dongle by any chance? That would explain why the dude was messing around on his laptop... I dunno just a thought...

[ck @ Jan 2nd 2007 5:58PM]

I'm doing exactly the same thing and I've modded and installed somewhere in the region of 10 XBoxes for friends/relatives just so they can run XBMC to stream media. It's doubtful that we'll see XBMC on the 360, and IMO the best hope for an upgrade seems to be the PS3 with some open-source XBMC clone or port running on it under Linux. I suspect this is being worked on as we speak...

[danielfolkes @ Jan 4th 2007 3:20PM]

looks like it came from his computer, not the 360. I don't believe it.

[Raptor007 @ Sep 19th 2007 9:00PM]

I love my Xbox's homebrew capabilities, and have recommended Xbox+modchip purchases to many friends for its tremendous potential as a media center and emulation station, in addition to running commercial Xbox games.

The lack of real homebrew support on the 360 made me hesitant to buy one. I don't like XNA, Microsoft's attempt to profit on the free works of others.

Microsoft needs to embrace the homebrew community that helped make the original Xbox more useful, not exploit them with this XNA crap. If it was a viable solution, we wouldn't have so many people trying to do things other ways. I'm sad that nobody's succeeded yet.