Nokia on iPhone: what, no 3G?

The iPhone could end wars, poverty, and hunger, but we still wouldn't expect competitors' executives to exactly fawn over it. And indeed they didn't -- though Nokia's VP of Nseries devices, Pekka Pohjakallio, was surprisingly un-negative in comments today to Tech Digest at CES. Pohjakallio pointed out that the iPhone is a convergence device (cue pro-Nokia spin) not unlike Nokia's own Nseries multimedia computers, which he views as a positive validation of the concept. In light of the media-heavy feature set, though, he came away surprised that it wasn't packing 3G data (as were we, except replace "surprised" with "disappointed") and seemed to rib Apple's decision to launch first in the US. A European organization upset that they get the cool stuff late and with no usable 3G, eh? Sounds like poetic justice to us.

[Salem @ Jan 9th 2007 10:47PM]

Well Nokia have a point it does seem daft - Until we all live in Mountain View, CA or Canary Wharf, London (areas with blanket public wifi) half the features are pointless.

Also Europe & Asia are countries where you have 12/18 month (not 24/36 month contracts) so you are going to get people actually buying the yearly updates Apple keep pushing. (It's also why it makes more sense for new tech to come out first over there) I get the 'homeland' focus - but c'mon isn't that what screwed up Motorola in the rest of the world in the time before the RAZR, and why 12 month old phones from europe sell in america as 'new technology'

Most importantly - it's not a personal computer in your pocket if what the most common use for it (Web and Mail) is something that's too slow to use.

Just look at http://www.three.co.uk/xseries/index.omp for an example of what networks out there offer.

They'd better come out with a 3G iPhone if they are serious about the rest of the world, but if you look at most 3G handsets - they are bigger and bulkier and have horrible power consumption (probably the reason why it's not 3G now if you ask me).

[Laz @ Jan 10th 2007 6:59AM]

Big and bulky? I've had a Nokia 6280 for a year, it's whole CENTIMETERS shorter and narrower than the Iphone, not to mention much lighter. I use 3G all the time, the phone as a modem for my latptop, checking mail (and sending, for example, with attachments) and browsing on the phone. The iPhone looks nice, but I can't imagine being wihtout 3G/UMTS, not to mention HSDPA which most new phones in Europe now have (even faster data transfer). Besides, the iPhone is simply too big, not pocketable. Imagine going out with that in your jeans- "Is that an iPhone in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"

[Judge @ Jun 7th 2007 11:26AM]

I don't know what phones you've been looking at, but not all 3G phones are ugly. In fact the 3 main 3G phones that Cingular/AT&T offers are the most stylish phones they even sell. (they have many more 3G-capable phones but these are the main 3).

First there's the AT&T 8525 (formerly the Cingular8525).
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?device=AT%26T+8525&q_sku=sku970003

Then there's my phone, the Samsung Blackjack.
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?device=Samsung+BlackJack&q_sku=sku960048

Then finally if you like flip phones the third *MAIN* 3G-capable phone is LGCU400
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/cell-phone-details/?device=LG+CU400&q_sku=sku950085

You can also just buy a Samsung Sync (brand new, and 3G capable, flip phone), or any one of the 4-5 other phones featuring 3G and no larger than a standard phone. But good job speaking before you know the facts.

[S C @ Jun 10th 2007 11:09PM]

3G phones compared to 2G phones, need higher amounts of processing (greater use of encoding), consequently need more and more powerful components and larger batteries, hence generally have to be larger...

The point I was making *6 months ago* is that the iPhone, would likely have to be bigger were it 3G or even 3.5G. Which is why they weren't announcing the 3g version then...

But as for your digression away from the iPhone onto 3G size, here's some food for thought, you seem to be looking at things from a US only perspective, where the products available on the market are much more limited than EU & APAC, and 'style' as you put it is arguably less important in buying decisions.

Funnily 6 months later, my point is valid as the market hasn't changed that much. (usu. in tech it wouldn't) Look at a major European carrier like Vodafone http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/ you'll find the smaller phones are generally 2.5G (e.g current best seller is a Nokia 6300)

That said we're finally got our small, stylish 3.5G phones in the form of the Nokia N76 (about the size of a RAZR).

As for style, EU and APAC are much more design led than the US, and want to upgrade more often. 2/3 year contracts would generally be laughed at here. You are looking only at US carriers, which is what 5% of these phone makers' market?

The phones you mention in size terms, they are all bigger than the current market leading phones in EU and APAC.

I'm afraid you are coming across poorly reasoned and confrontational. It is worth baring in mind internet sites have international audiences and markets in this day and age are generally considered to be global.

[S C @ Jun 10th 2007 11:35PM]

3G phones compared to 2G phones, need higher amounts of processing (greater use of encoding), consequently need more and more powerful components and larger batteries, hence generally have to be larger...

The point I was making *6 months ago* is that the iPhone, would likely have to be bigger were it 3G or even 3.5G. Which is why they weren't announcing the 3g version then...

But as for your digression away from the iPhone onto 3G size, here's some food for thought, you seem to be looking at things from a US only perspective, where the products available on the market are much more limited than EU & APAC, and 'style' as you put it is arguably less important in buying decisions.

Funnily 6 months later, my point is valid as the market hasn't changed that much. (usu. in tech it wouldn't) Look at a major European carrier like Vodafone http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/ you'll find the smaller phones are generally 2.5G (e.g current best seller is a Nokia 6300)

That said we're finally got our small, stylish 3.5G phones in the form of the Nokia N76 (about the size of a RAZR).

As for style, EU and APAC are much more design led than the US, and want to upgrade more often. 2/3 year contracts would generally be laughed at here. You are looking only at US carriers, which is what 5% of these phone makers' market?

The phones you mention in size terms, they are all bigger than the current market leading phones in EU and APAC.

I'm afraid you are coming across poorly reasoned and confrontational. It is worth baring in mind internet sites have international audiences and markets in this day and age are generally considered to be global.

[Zadillo @ Jan 9th 2007 11:01PM]

Just watching the keynote right now.

One thing that I missed in the macrumors coverage is that Steve pretty clearly said that they are on the GSM bandwagon and roadmap, and they are in fact planning on 3G and other things in the future. So for anyone concerned about that, it does seem like Apple is going to be doing that eventually.

[pixelbender @ Jan 9th 2007 11:26PM]

Sooooo no one watched the keynote where Steve talks about upgrading it with 3G and more down the road.

*It should be noted that since it doesn't debut in your hands until June, there could be some changes made (and finalized). See also: Macbook Pro launch

[Joel L. @ Jan 10th 2007 12:19AM]

Yeah. Steve Jobs said flat-out that 3G was on the way.

Congrats, Engadget...between this and the asinine "It's not a real smart phone" FUD column below this FUD column, I feel stupid for coming here for news and analysis.

[Stymie @ Jan 10th 2007 12:57AM]

3G is critical - I hope they add it. There something else that is critical for me - a keyboard. This looks like a great device for people who need a media player/phone combo, but the lack of a keyboard makes it a no-sale for me. Music is nice, but being able to type emails is the "killer" function.

[retsel @ Jan 10th 2007 1:05AM]

it has a keyboard....

[erik brunn @ Jan 10th 2007 2:27AM]

I love people who havent even held it in their hand and saying they cant type with it.

[Jared @ Jan 10th 2007 1:00AM]

Hey, at least those saavy Euros can wait for the iPhone whilst playing their brand new, and ultra-glossy Playstation Thr...oh.

Right.

[Brado @ Jan 10th 2007 1:25AM]

It's a bummer without 3G, because while Australia doesn't have great Wi-Fi coverage, we have one of the best 3G (UMTS/HSPDA) networks around. And while a 3G iPhone is supposedly on the way, so is the first iPhone. Ideally, they should release two versions: GSM/EDGE for the main american market and UTMS for the rest of the world (Japan doesn't deserve one for their networks, they have enough phones). No external memory, no removable battery, no Inkwell, and no 3G makes this an unfortunate no-sell for me.

[PA @ Jan 10th 2007 12:50PM]

3G in Australia, say thanks to your nearby Asian friends. Apple Inc. has 6 moths to make the 3G move and add more smart phone functionality or they will have a hard time selling a 599$ device. For the keyboard, it's not an issue from what I saw.

[mike @ Jan 10th 2007 2:09AM]

That (photo) is the look of a man who just shat his pants.

Nokia, in one day, is clinging to "What? No 3G...(Until September..)?" ?

Amazing.

[stevenryan @ Jan 10th 2007 2:25AM]

3G? It's in the roadmap for the Europe units on the 4Q this year. Keyboard? Don't forget that a lot of third party companies are going gaga in making acccessories for the ipod alone. Now imagine what these companies are brainstorming now for the iphone as we speak.
I'm not a big Apple fan but the iphone made me drool. Up until yesterday, I was looking forward for the N95 to be released. The iphone seems to be something to be considered. 320x480 vs 240x320 pixels. 3.5" vs 2.6" screen. 8GB vs 2GB+160MB. OS X vs Symbian 9.2. 11.6mm vs 21mm thickness. 2megapixel vs 5megapixel. Internal battery @ 5hours talktime vs removable batt @ 6hours 30mins. $700 (unconfirmed) vs $599. I hope these two will be released at around the same time so reviews, bugs and complains would also be considered. I wonder what's the GPRS specs on the iphone. Wow, with the way Apple handles the marketing with their ipod, the iphone is definitely gonna push the company's stock figures again when this hits the public shelves. Even Pohjakallio admired Apple's bold move here. Now, phone companies have a lot of project concepts to grind if they wanna race against Apple's 2007 stock record.

[Jeff @ Jan 10th 2007 7:51AM]

"I love people who havent even held it in their hand and saying they cant type with it."

Yeah, because nobody's ever used a touch screen before. Right?

I loved the one slide Apple showed where the first bullet point was "works like magic!" They really do expect us to believe that every single thing they do, even if already proven unworkable by plenty of other manufacturers, is just the perfect solution. They don't even need to tell us why. They're magicians! And magicians never tell anyone how their illusions work. The pathetic thing is, a lot of people are going to end up telling themselves how great this interface is just because it's an Apple product, even though they know touch screens suck for typing and always have. There's a reason why IBM spent tens of millions of dollars researching tactile feedback several decades ago, after all. This is not a new concept.

I love my iPod and I think Apple is capable of making truly wonderful products. But not everything they touch turns to gold. Sure, some people disagree, but those are what we call "fanboys". If you just put blinders on all the time and convince yourself that everything Jobs does is milk and cookies, then you obviously lose any sense of objectivity. You can't judge products anymore.

As for 3G being "added later", I took that to mean in later iterations of the product. Maybe I'm wrong, and I hope I am both for Apple's sake and for the sake of all the sucke... uh, consumers that buy this phone, but Apple has historically put out a pretty weak (and ridiculously expensive) 1.0 product and then quickly updated it within six to twelve months to add the features that their customers have been clamoring for. Which means you're probably an idiot to buy the first version of this phone; by 2007 they'll have 2 or 3 different models, they'll all be 3G, they'll be less expensive and at least one of them will have buttons rather than a touch screen. (Remember when Jobs said there was "no market" for video on the iPod? Just because they say they won't do something doesn't mean they won't.)

[calvin @ Jan 10th 2007 2:35AM]

question about the iphone: will it ever be compatible with t-mobile?

[Tony C @ Jan 10th 2007 7:47AM]

With the mobile phone tech behind it (GSM, EDGE), it'll work with T-Mobile -- as simple as swapping out the SIM card. There was a copyright law passed near the end of last year that required carriers to unlock their phones for use on competing wireless providers (http://www.copyright.gov/1201/ -- bullet number 5).

Don't expect Visual Voicemail to function though. That's something Apple worked out exclusively with Cingular. And good luck buying one without a contract, at least within their exclusivity window.

[Marian @ Jan 10th 2007 3:43AM]

Nokia guy's comments and your comments resemble so much the /. comments on the first iPod lunch...
You are focusing on almost irrelevant issues and you don't actually see the big picture. I recommend you see Job's presentation and find out which are the killer apps for iPhone ;-)

[iball @ Jan 10th 2007 4:22AM]

WHat I find interesting is that NO WHERE does it say the iPhone will have built-in GPS. Everyone just THINKS it will because it will support Google Maps - from the web browser, folks - but no real built-in GPS.
The Nokia N95 will not only be shorter, but it will have true 3G and real GPS capabilities MONTHS ahead of the iPhone's launch at around the same price.
Of course, the US will probably never see the N95.
Nothign to see here from Apple, move along...

[Karppi @ Jan 10th 2007 4:51AM]

Ummm.. I think the greatest achievement here is the user interface. I have no problem with technological limitations (besides, I don't see any). Sure Nokias mobile phones may offer more come December, but I happen to like Apples design and ease of use more.

And this comes from a Finn who could have access to Nokias unreliesed mobile phones with little effort.

[Ronald @ Jan 10th 2007 4:52AM]

3G services are overpriced annyway, so first change that before forcing phone builders to build it in there hardware.

[Laz @ Jan 10th 2007 7:00AM]

No the 3G prices aren't expensive. Maybe in your market. I have unlimited data traffic for 10 EUR / month. I have free video calls. And by the way, all 3G phones ALSO work on regular GSM networks, so even if the circuit is built in, there's nothing that forces you to use 3G services.

[branko.milojic @ Jan 10th 2007 5:28AM]

great thing, all good besides the below 3 points, that need change.
1_ 3G is a must, by Q4, most countries will have 3G networks (even nigeria), at least all countries thhat have high mobile penetration and high renewal rates for handsets: Europe, SE Asia, America (I think!)
2_ HW limitations, well besides the fact that Apple fans screem at Sony and other's proprietary technologies, none seem to mind that when you face the first limitation of an apple product, your only choice: buy a new full product.
might be ok for IPOD as an all consumer product. but not in the handset market, where people already have phones with HDD's, miniSD's or memorysticks.

3_ what operator is going to provide the phone in its packages?
well, first as GSM, there will be no downloads, too slow, so no music revenue for the operator.(besides, will be a hassle to transfer songs compared to other handsets (memory stick or SD, direct from computer onto the memory cards)
then, if 3G goes, then you can download, APPlE will most likely stick to ITUNES downloads only: no share on the 99 cents a song for the operator, while clogging its network bandwidth, so either the operator will charge a premium for reaching ITUNES, or will blacklist it. YES they can do so!

I guess Apple will get a niche market, but until it realises it is a completely diferent world, and they cannot FOLD that world to their concept (NOKIA failed a few years ago when pushing for single stack only HTTP handsets, they started loosing market shares) apple will only reach a niche market.

good luck to them anyway, looks pretty good, I just hope they will come to realise it might be time to adapt to the markets, some markets are too big to adapt to apple.

[VidiotGeek @ Jan 12th 2007 12:55AM]

EDGE network.....this phone uses the Cingulair EDGE network which is their answer to EV-DO. So it has high speed data (at least some form, I'm not sure how EDGE stacks up or it's coverage) so I think that wireless iTunes access is possible. If the new Net-neutrality Legislation passes, it might affect cell phone carriers or at least the data sent through their networks meaning that if they do limit or blacklist iTunes it could potentially get them into legal trouble. That's probably me just being optimistic. Though I think this partnership with Cingulair includes a slice of the iTunes pie if they allow it on the network.

One thing I would really like to know is with all the criticism of the iPhone, exactly what would the phone have to be or include to make it truly unbeatable. I've read lots of quips about the phones features which to me seem quite solid and even impressive. What would it really take to blow all other phones out of the water if this doesn't do it? It's not like anything in the cell phone industry is all that revolutionary, they all do the same stuff in different ways--audio, video, photos, voice, web, games/apps, texting. What room is there to really add something entirely new besides just improving on what's already available? Video conferencing in america finally? Make no mistake we have not seen all that is in this phones bag of tricks.

[MPG @ Jan 10th 2007 5:29AM]

The interesting thing about having Nokia comment on this is that Nokia had design studies for 3G phones which looked EXACTLY like the iPhone. But that was _seven_ _years_ _ago_. In seven years, Nokia has not had the courage and technical skill to release this phone. They are in no position to comment on this, because it's one train they missed. I'm sure they'll try to copy it later (as they did with the Blackberry), but they had their chance to innovate, and they missed it.

[jonesy @ Jan 10th 2007 5:43AM]

I can understand Apple leaving out 3G in the U.S. for the first gen iPhone. I just don't understand the logic behind the Cingular pairing. Sure visual voicemail sounds cool and they needed to partner with someone to do it. Even though out of the 10 years of owning mobiles I've used voicemail about twice. My question is how does the Cingular pairing pan out in Europe?

There are far more operaters in the whole of Europe than in the U.S. though with the lack of 3G that counts Hutchinson 3 out. The only operater that I can think of that have 'blanket' European coverage is Vodafone. And unfortunatley they are the kind of network that like to put their own software on the handsets and cripple their functions (not being able to use MP3 as ringtones, own software, stamping the phone with logos and so on, tarriffs are quite poor too).

This is probably why it isn't coming to Europe till late in the year, as I guess they would need a network that would allow them to develop the voicemail thing like Cingular has. I really hope that they choose O2 (their motto 'See what you can do' lol).

As far as other manufacturers go I can't see Nokias sales going down, though I think it does raise the bar slightly especially looking at the product announcements from SE and Motorola they look very bland (Ai?).

Though wouldn't be suprised if Sony come up with a Vaio branded handset by the end of the year (they have Cybershot/Walkman already)

Argh just noticed how long this post is lol!

[Christopher Huang @ Jan 10th 2007 6:53AM]

Well, the new Nokia N800 is roughly comparable to the iPhone (as an internet browsing/media device), and that doesn't have 3G either, or any other cellular capabilities.

[PEZ @ Jan 10th 2007 6:58AM]

Personally, I would take Wifi over 3G anyway, at this point. Why? Because Wifi can be free, and its everywhere. 3G is not. But it will be, and I am sure, Apple will release another iPhone by 2008 with 3G, since by then (which is the Europe Asia release dates) Will pretty much require them to have 3G to make any really big sales.

EDGE is good, and Wifi is really good. Could help keep your data bill down.

Im going to go the Borat route and say: NICE!

[FA @ Jan 10th 2007 7:12AM]

I wanted to chime in.

First off, did anyone actually think that Nokia was going to be like...wow, the iPhone is a great product, we need to step up our game.

Secondly, 3G in the States from GSM carriers is nowhere near the coverage of Asia or Europe. Sure Sprint/Verizon have larger coverage areas for their high-speed networks, but Apple needed to keep it simple for their first product. By creating it with GSM, they can get the product into world markets easier. That being the case, 3G not being there from their first product isn't all too shocking. Also, Steve Jobs already stated that they are working on 3G. For all we know it might be in the final production version that is released in June, and it might not....NO ONE outside of Apple or Cingular actually knows. Imagine if when they announced availability, they state that it has 3G and Cingulars coverage has expanded greatly. Again, no one knows. Look at the Apple TV(iTV). When they announced it last year, they made no mention of a hard drive, and in the shipping version it has one. Until the iPhone is being sold people need to chill because we don't know.

Also, the folks saying Apple should have sold the iPhone first in countries that have widespread 3G (the European market), are you even thinking about the MASSIVE retail presence Apple has in the States? They get insane amounts of foot traffic through their retail stores and that combined with the 4100+ plus Cingular stores, that is MASSIVE. They will have a ton more exposure and control over launching a product this different on their home turf, which is definitely way more important then having 3G and selling it in Europe. This is about brand/product/cost control.

People have constantly brought up lack of certain software features (wi-fi syncing, iTunes OTA downloads, support for things like BB Connect or MS Exchange to name a few)...folks, this thing isn't even going to be out in retail for another 5 months. It is running OS X. There is a lot that can be done in software and I would assume that there is a definite upgrade path and it would totally make sense for Apple to open it up to developers. People keep thinking of this device as a normal cell phone that has a shorter upgrade cycle or something that would get limited firmware updates. It isn't that by a long shot. I see this more along the lines of a computer. You have core technologies that are in it and you can greatly enhance them for a 12-24 month upgrade cycle, easily. People mentioning SE or Nokia developing a cool interface like this aren't looking at the whole picture. It is the interface, the integration, the upgrade path through software (which by the way I see as being way bigger of a deal then the firmware upgrades that we all know now), the ease of use and a whole slew of other things. BTW - There is no phone OS that seems to work as smoothly as this does and I have had a lot of phones and even tested even more than that. It might suck and be weird to use, or it might be the best thing since sliced bread, but again we don't know.

Look folks, this is Apple's first foray into this market, and I think it is a definite step in the right direction. This will push other companies to innovate, which ultimately benefits us, the consumers, and I hope that they really do start looking beyond the current implementations and form factors. Just look at how many people started copying the RAZR form factor after it started selling. I had one even before they hit the street and even tried it again later. I hated that thing from the beginning and it didn't get any better later. Look at how long Motorola has been milking that form factor and lagging on innovating. What's the point of it being thin if it is a crappy phone to use? Down the line, I see the market adapting to products that have longer life expectancies instead of needing to be upgraded so often to get the latest hardware, which technically isn't always the best. I would keep a product like this for a couple years if the software just worked and was constantly updated, as well as 3G (which isn't technically a deal breaker for me). One side note - I will never buy into Verizon or Sprint. I hate how they cripple phones, software and are limited in so many other ways. Their extra coverage doesn't really mean anything to me. I travel a lot and I am fine with my coverage.

People need to relax with all their negative drama. Sometimes I think people just want to talk smack to be different. If you don't like it, then don't buy it, but be constructive instead of saying fanboy this, fanboy that. How is another company creating competition a bad thing? Sorry for the long post.

[Catuty @ Jan 10th 2007 12:10PM]

WOW, Finally that someone posted something worth ready! Good work!

[DigitalFury @ Jan 10th 2007 7:14AM]

Same comments as Laz, 3G is a must for me and (70€/month unlimited here) and I have a N73 with a 2 Gb MiniSD. The iPhone is awesome for its interface, but it's rather big, the non- changeable battery and lack of memory slot is a no-no and they really have to upgrade it to 3G ASAP. Anyway it's a good bet I'll be getting an N95 or its successor when it comes along, but I'm sure the iPhone will be very popular for the hip/BoBo user who wants a good phone with multimedia and be able to show it off at Starbucks.

[Michael @ Jan 10th 2007 7:22AM]

Why are so many people over-looking the fact that Steve stated at the beginning of the iPhone announcement that 3G is on the way.

Also, if you look at what Apple is trying to do.. and understanding the mobile/telco industry you would know that getting a provider to make such changes in their networks to provide new services like "visual" voice mail is no small feat. So while I am upset that we here in Europe will not get one anytime soon... understanding the bigger picture really gets me excited.

[Salem @ Jan 10th 2007 2:59AM]

I don't think anyone is actually overlooking the fact that it may at some point have 3G and this isn't FUD.

When you start thinking it as a World Product (There is life outside the US ;-) ) it's great design, great software, just the hardware specs and the Q4 launch don't make sense.

a) seems odd that the first version doesn't have the most logically powerful available technology and

b) by Q4 it'll start to look old in Europe -

let's face it there is all ready pretty reasonable competition to it from the likes of Sony Ericsson's W950i - does (in principle for a typical engagdget reader / early adopter ) everything the iPhone does, just without apple's slickness + iTunes play back - but it's at half the price (usu free with contract) - Nokia and S-E are no strangers to rapid development cycles, and have more infrastructure set up in partnership with networks (Again look at 3's x-series)

are you telling me that S-E's team can't deliver a simpler, slicker UI in 12 months or even king of cell phone UI - Nokia who sell bigger & cheaper to build phones on the basis the software is better.

- Also how Europe and Asia use phone's you'll find a big difference -> there are plenty of people who have been brought up on multitap and T9 (txt'ing been big since 2001 here - ahem) who like keypads, and form a big part of the iPod generation.

In the UK when Gnarls Barkley's "Crazy" was the first song to chart at #1 on downloads alone - 20% were downloaded OTA on cellphones. When you realise this market is using phones in a completely different way, and is about 2/3 years ahead of the U.S. in use of services - you then realise that some of the limitations of the iPhone both software and hardware aren't going to fly...

I couldn't be a bigger Apple Fanboy - but this is a game about compelling, leading products and ultimately market share and profit. Nokia & S-E are probably going, 'cheers apple you've just validated our development trajectory and increased our market for 'multimedia computers' by a factor of 10'

[DigitalFury @ Jan 10th 2007 7:44AM]

Probably because he didn't give any timelime. "On the way" is a very vague affirmation, what did he meant? June? end of the year? in two years?

[Joe @ Jan 10th 2007 7:26AM]

Quite right the comments about Europe. The phone has got great potential but the thing here is that users are generally unwilling to accept the limitation to one operator only. Since the up-an-coming ones are generally the smaller networks (such as O2 outside the UK), question remains how well apple will be able to negotiate deals to cover a decent geographic area /market penetration. As for visual voice mail: Will hardly be worth a thought IMHO, because a) most users turn it off any way or b)nevery actually check who has spoken on their's. The only people that use voice mail within my contacts are manager-type people that must be (or feel they must be) available at all times. And the likeliness of them buying iPhone? =0%.

[Tony C @ Jan 10th 2007 8:03AM]

The Steve's exact words were "We've decided to go with the most popular international standard, which is GSM. We're on that bandwagon, headed on that roadmap, and plan to make 3G phones and all sorts of other amazing things in the future."

[Ihar `Philips` Filipau @ Jan 10th 2007 7:55AM]

Germany & 3G. IMHO.

At moment, by all means, 3G in Germany looks like joke. First. 3G voice calls have the same price. Second. 3G data transfers are still expensive like hell: 1€/100kB is norm of day. (Only flat rate offer I know (from Debitel) has transfer cap - after which you would get into the same 1€/100kB land - so it is not really any kind of flat rate).

3G though was specifically designed to be cheaper for operators, ended up only being a cause for price hikes. Nothing more. 3G/MMS/other buzzwords in Germany are non existent. You would of course find some exceptions - but still most youth (and that's majority of users) you would find addicted to cheap SMS plans - no data, no gprs, no umts - only voice + sms.

Notice that German businesses (due to stuff like regulations, protectionism) rarely works outside of office/work place - so few businesses are really interested in remote connectivity. From POV of self-employed - notebook is much more convenient/cheaper compared to blackberry/etc. So push for data transfers is coming from business.

And as long as prices for 3G would remain at the insane level they are, I do not see it changing. IOW, Germany-wise, absence of 3G/3GPP is absolutely Ok. And Wi-Fi + OSX combo - is big plus: unexpectedly many companies started adding Skype/alike voice connectivity (in addition to traditional land lines). (Wi-Fi is still sparsely deployed in Germany (German companies do not like such highly configurable stuff) but I hope that would change.)

[joe @ Jan 10th 2007 8:06AM]

http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/15/the-lg-ke850-touchable-chocolate/2#c3098312

3g or no 3g, copying is wrong

[FA @ Jan 10th 2007 9:33AM]

You mean to tell me that Apple put together their case design in a matter of a couple weeks? The concept of a full touch screen has been around a long time. All the old Palms had this with maybe a few buttons. It was only a natural progression to have a mobile phone adopt the thinking. Also the LG looks like a non-working prototype. Come to think of it, I think Nokia even had prototype designs with a full screen a year ago. The basic concept is generic, so I don't see the copying.

[Catuty @ Jan 10th 2007 12:10PM]

Wow some people just don't get the big picture! The design might not be revolutionary, what makes this device revolutionary is the software/interface(We all get this. I have been reading the post and some people complain about 3g, others about a lack of a keyboard, one person posting that if a touchscreen had never worked,it will never work! Is that stupid or what?. What people are saying here, is basically that if it has not worked before, it will never work! Wow, it blows my mind that intellingent people belive that. Like it or not, Apple has always been about innovation. If it does not develop the technology, it certainly makes it better. This product is not a final product!!! Does everybody get that? Apple has 5/6 months to get this out and makes the changes they seem necessary. If you don't like it, fine, don't buy it! It is clear that there other products out there that can do everything this device promises to do, but no other product out there right now can do all those things as well as the Ipod promises to do. Love or hate Apple, the put execptional products out there, and if getting a great product means paying a premium, so be it.

[joe @ Jan 11th 2007 12:29AM]

it's not a prototype. apple copied it shamelessly.

[Catuty @ Jan 10th 2007 12:10PM]

Wow some people just don't get the big picture! The design might not be revolutionary, what makes this device revolutionary is the software/interface(We all get this. I have been reading the post and some people complain about 3g, others about a lack of a keyboard, one person posting that if a touchscreen had never worked,it will never work! Is that stupid or what?. What people are saying here, is basically that if it has not worked before, it will never work! Wow, it blows my mind that intellingent people belive that. Like it or not, Apple has always been about innovation. If it does not develop the technology, it certainly makes it better. This product is not a final product!!! Does everybody get that? Apple has 5/6 months to get this out and makes the changes they seem necessary. If you don't like it, fine, don't buy it! It is clear that there other products out there that can do everything this device promises to do, but no other product out there right now can do all those things as well as the Ipod promises to do. Love or hate Apple, the put execptional products out there, and if getting a great product means paying a premium, so be it.

[Kyle @ Jan 10th 2007 12:43PM]

Whats is 3G, and does anyone have any good sites or blogs that review and/or talk about cells phones.

[live2xs @ Jan 10th 2007 2:53PM]

It will be interesting to see if the new iPhone is an iPod or a Newton. At the least it signals to me that Apple is all about the end consumer and not about the enterprise customer. They will sell their millions of units to their current, affluent, “gotta have the latest Apple toy” customers but it won’t help them in getting Apple technology into the enterprise or into the pockets of executives. The reasons; pretty simple – only sourced from one carrier, no connectivity to Exchange, and no removable battery. It will also be interesting to see how well the first version of this new touch UI works out. I’m sure it will need to mature and it will be interesting to see how the whole idea of constantly touching the screen is accepted. Screens on current phones already get pretty nasty after a few calls. If you add touch dialing and navigation I can see a downside. There will be a quick follow-on product opportunity for convenient wet wipes to clean things up. I love the innovation that Apple creates through their bold design moves but I don’t see the iPhone having near the impact the iPod has had. Too expensive, not enterprise friendly, and limited features.

[Serge @ Jan 10th 2007 3:35PM]

Check this out: PPC-6700 Sprint phone

- 3G EVDO
- Wi-fi
- Bluetooth
- Media player
- Unlimited flash storage via removable 4gb-8gb card
- Removable bettery
- Syncs with Outlook
- Pocket Word, Excel, Powerpoit
- HTML/javaScript web browser
- Steraming web TV/radio
- Camera still/video vith flash
- Voice recorder
- Hundreds of third party applications avalable
- Large touch screen with stylus
- Large sliding keyboard
- Unlimited high-speed data plan $15
- Released a year ago

http://www.sprint.com/business/products/phones/ppc6700_allPcsPhones.html?origref=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.yahoo.com%2Fsearch%3Fei%3Dutf-8%26fr%3Dslv8-%26p%3Dppc-6700

[number40one @ Jan 10th 2007 4:00PM]

That man's face looks as boring as the fugly products his company pushes.

Seriously, I have yet to see a Nokia phone that didn't look like either a toy or two design generations old.

[matt byrne @ Jan 10th 2007 10:02PM]

Who needs to worry about downloading when it has wifi and a proper web browser? Also, if anyone thinks this will be a niche product, then you're likely mistaken. This is going to be the new must have, without doubt. When non-technical people like my Mum bring up the subject of the iPhone, well that's part of the process already. It's famous within a day.

[Soonerpet @ Jan 10th 2007 10:35PM]

All the people acting all confused and dismayed about Apple choosing to go with Cingular is either in denial or just doesn't get it. They chose Cingular because they are the biggest cellular network in the US by far. They wanted their phone to be open to the biggest possible audience. If that meant cutting out verizon with their craptacular feature cutting network and disabled phones then so be it. Verizon would never have let Apple put the iPhone on their network anyway because it does too much stuff on its own and verizon likes to screw all its customers by disabling bluetooth and file transfers and wifi and all that other stuff phone should be able to do out of the box. Sure they have a fast network, but to most people it's not worth having a hobbled phone as seen by the nearly 60 million customers Cingular has. I laugh everytime my friend with a razr from verizon can't do simple things like transfer music or photos to his computer as easily as I can with the exact same phone from cingular.