Microsoft's CableCARD DRM
By Ben Drawbaugh 
posted Jan 12th 2007 4:59AM
posted Jan 12th 2007 4:59AM
Our most anticipated feature of Windows Vista is CableCARD support. As much as we like Windows XP Media Center Edition, it's inability to record HD cable channels is really lame. We knew there would be a catch in the form of DRM; like the OEM requiredment and some of our favorite Media Center features won't be available. The good news is that CableCARD support will be available when Vista ships later this month, the content will be decrypted from cable and then re-encrypted in the tuner with Microsoft DRM before traveling via USB to the media center, even internal PCI cards will use USB. The files will be stored on the hard drive encrypted and no copies will be permitted, there will be recover methods to deal with hardware failure. Streaming to Vista Media Center extenders will be supported, and shows recorded with a CableCARD tuner will not be transferable to a Zune or other device, OTA content can be copied to a Zune so Microsoft recommends you record what you can OTA. All copy protection required by the provider like 5C will be honored by Microsoft, but no details were known how they would deal with things like "Copy Never". On a side note un-encrypted QAM will be supported, but mapping the QAM channels is not automatic.
wow, they couldn't have made all of this any simpler if they really tried. Never.
One more reason to be a pirate. It's a sad day when companies turn customers that pay over $1000 a year for their cable service into legal enemies.
Hello again, Jenna Fischer :)
Zune= a sad attempt at copying Apple once again.
They should have called it the Dupe
"Zune= a sad attempt at copying Apple once again. "
I suppose it goes both ways.
Apple iTV (or whatever it's currently called) is a sad attempt at copying MCE/Extender.
By the way, I'm not sure which part of this article is news. I think it's all been known for weeks if not months.
source?
So does this mean that i wont have to have a cable labs certified PC in order to record HD to stream to my xbox 360? That would be unreal considering that im not trying to do anything illegal. I really couldn't care less about getting the content off of my headless media server.
I am amazed at the fact that while this is not related to the zune. People still find away to trash it for no reason. Put apple in this position and watch them do the same thing.
This is not about the zune is about VISTA MCE.
Aaron thank you for pointing the appletv/mce extender copy.
i hate the fact that when apple do something is INNOVATIVE.
The appletv is a piece of crap crippled with drm files only.
Regarding the vista mce subject. I can see why microsoft would this im pretty sure their avoding sues and pissed of executives.
Some of it is news, I think: the ability to record clear QAM, the absence of automatic channel mapping, and the (logical) differentiation in DRM treatment between OTA and CableCARD-sourced content.
Why does f-ing cable labs allow TiVo to record HD and not MS? MS needs to get some balls and change allow HD-recording and transfers to portable media devices. Not having HD recording ability gives TiVo a huge edge it seems MS would want to eliminate. MS also needs to allow streaming of HD-DVD and DVD to media extenders from a changer or ripped file on a server.
Heres my question: I really don't even give a "F" if I can or can not record HD channels, what I wanted to do was use a cablecard TV Tuner just to get rid of my set top box and just watch standard television (the channels I get above 100). Is that going to be possible or is it that if it doesn't have the certification the tuner won't even be able to be installed in my PC?
With all of those Defective By Design restrictions, why even bother with it? I know I wouldn't. Not worth the hassle and frustration. I look forward to a hacker cracking the whole scheme wide open, allowing us to use the hardware the way we SHOULD be able to.
Why does f-ing cable labs allow TiVo to record HD and not MS?
Vista has the same HD features as Tivo. Tivo also does not allow you to move content to a portable device. Vista allows you to stream to extender (XB360), which is something Tivo cannot do for HD.
So I'm going to have to buy CableCard tuners on eBay. Lovely.
Will QAM be supported only on the cable card tuners? Or can I use any card that supports QAM? As long as I can map the QAM channels manually and they stay mapped I'll be happy.
Shmoe: You might want to re-read the post as it's about the ability to record HD in Windows Vista. It can be done, not the other way around.
On the topic of "Copy Never", it will not be recorded and it will not sit around on your hard drive for extended amounts of time. Copy Never content should basically be limited to things like On-Demand programming, which CableCARD 1.0 doesn't support anyway.
Chris
Steve Jobs is the Donald Trump of consumer elecronics. Hyperbole all the way.
Wow CableLabs... there is nothing better than being treated like a criminal from the get go. THank you.
I don't get it. I can copy HBO and pay-per-view to VHS whenever I want... didn't we already fight this battle for personal copies in the supreme court? DVD/HD is just a different medium serving the very same purpose. So, how about stop taking away basic features that I grew up with, eh?
I'm paying $170 a month to enjoy all cable has to offer. Fight the criminals not the paying customers.
Requiredment? Spellcheck!!!
Change will only ever come about in this arena when we the consumers decide to employ our most powerful weapon: not buying this crap until they stop crippling it.
I would generally agree that we shouldn't buy until they fix the streaming/moving issues.
However, I was duped by TIVO. They called the new box a "series 3" when in fact they should have named it "series 0.5 with HD". They go to great lengths to advertise the series 2 features, and then no where on the place where you buy it does it mention the absence of Multi room viewing, TIvo To Go, Guru Guides, and remote scheduling. Something tells me that that was on purpose.
So if you cannot copy it does that mean you will not be able to move the file off your computer at all? Could you not put it onto a networked server for example? That sucks if this is the case.
Well it says "The files will be stored on the hard drive encrypted" so unless Vista has really changed the file system you will be able to copy these files wherever you want, but they will be encrypted and I would assume therefore useless (until someone breaks the encryption).
This is the first I've heard of unencrypted QAM being able to be recorded. So does this mean that I can pop an A180 in my vista box and have it record QAM channels? Strange that this is the only site that I've seen mention the unencrypted QAM ability.
Charlie Owen from the Windows Media Center team here. I'm not sure where Ben got his information but Windows Media Center is definitely able to record high definition television. Today that content can come from over the air (OTA) broadcast ATSC. When Windows Vista ships it will expand to include Open Cable Unidirectional Receivers (OCUR) aka CableCard tuners. Live and Recorded TV (including high definition content) can freely flow to attached Media Center Extenders (today that's the XBox 360). Copying / transcoding the content to portable devices will depend on the rights granted by the content owner as embedded in the content stream.
The author of this article is wrong. Premium HD content can be recorded (like high-def HBO), and this is the whole point of having a cablecard-based HD tuner in Media Center. Premium HD recorded content can also be played back on extenders like the XBox 360.
Well this is good and bad.
Good that you can actually record HD cable with a MCE.
Bad that Microsoft wouldn't have been able to do it without supporting DRM.
Microsoft really isn't pro DRM when it's not called for, they are only pro DRM when it net benefits the consumer.
I'd much rather have CableCard recording support with DRM than nothing at all and that really is the choice here due to CableLABS.
And hopefully it'll be easier to crack the protection than your average DVR so you can set your files free. :)
Three questions...
(1) If you use a PCI HDTV tuner in your PC, can you record any HD content you subscribe to?
(2) What is QAM?
(3) Are there any PCI CableCARD tuners?
Can't wait for Vista Ultimate!
What does "mapping QAM channels manually" mean? MCE knows what cable system you're on and what channels it has, why would you need to map anything? Why would having a cable card (simply a decryption device) map channels for you? All the cablecard knows is if it can or cannot decrypt a selected encrypted stream, why do people imply it knows anything about the unencrypted (basic) QAM cable channels?
Darn, I just sold my HDTV card that supported QAM. I knew I should have held on to it a bit longer.
But I have a feeling that the QAM support may not be as sweet as most would like it to be.
If we can map unencrypted QAM channels, can we then tell Media Center what the real channel is so it can populate the guide data for that channel?
If I can only tune to the channel by scrolling to channel number 1134 and hit record to get some generic file name for the show that I'm recording it does me no good. The main reason I use Media Center is to time shift. So I don't have to be in front of the TV (or even in the house for that matter) and not worry about missing the programs that I want to see.
Also what is the news on the Directv PC Tuner Card. I've heard nothing about it since the announcement that Microsoft and Directv had partnered up. Is this something that we will see this Spring? Summer? Year?
I've got a TB of drive space waiting to record some HD programming. But currently all I can get is 4 crappy OTA stations of stuff I don't want to see. Directv would be my first choice but I would settle for cable or even settle for the unecrypted QAM stations (and buy another card that supports it).
First, a word on the article -- I'm sure that the author meant "As much as we like THE CURRENT VERSION of MCE...."
kballs,
Yes, MCE knows what cable system you're on and it knows what channels it has. However, it doesn't know *where* those channels are. You see -- unlike analog cable where these placements remain constant, cable companies have the ability to move digital channels around. The STB (set top box) tracks the movement and the end-user is unaware that anything has happened. One of the key advantages of a cable card is that it translates a table of channel placements (where in the frequency spectrum each channel is). "Mapping QAM channels manually" means that a user must first find the correct channel in the digital spectrum and then "tell" MCE that a certain frequency is a certain channel.
Now -- to answer the question that will SURELY come up later. NO -- MCE will not (IS NOT ALLOWED TO) use the CableCARD mappings to populate the guide. This is part of the Cable Labs specification. This is not a Microsoft decision. Their hands are tied there.