Microsoft made the Zune because partner hardware "sucks"
By Ryan Block 
posted Jan 20th 2007 5:42PM
posted Jan 20th 2007 5:42PM
Jim: title "sucking on media players"; regarding a current Creative player (probably a Nomad, perhaps a Zen Touch): "My goodness it's terrible... What I don't understand though is I was told the new Creative Labs device would be comparable to Apple. That is so not the case."
Amir: "Now you feel our pain." He suggests giving cash bonuses for partners that come up with decent devices. In the instance that doesn't work: "it is time for us to roll up our sleeves and do our own hardware."
And of course so they did, with great hype and great failure to immediately capture market share, the Zune was born many years later -- far too late by most accounts, but hey, you've gotta start somewhere. Still, it's funny to think that for these guys rolling up their sleeves and doing their own hardware means taking an off the shelve portable media OS (PMC 2), getting Toshiba to make a modified Gigabeat, and cutting some seriously anti-consumer deals with major labels.
Not to get nitpicky, but it should be
"ZOMG these new players are teh suck"
You spelled "teh" wrong by spelling it correctly!
Good day, Engadget :D
Naw man, I'm using 2003 nomenclature!
mmmh could be that way but the second person has to say:
"yes we must build our own, it has to be a real sucky player."
I love how they thought that all the partner players sucked. Was that why they had to completely copy the Toshiba Gigabeat, making a less good version of it.
The thing is, the Creative Zen Vision:M is probably the most kickass PMP out there at this point. Let's see what it does RIGHT:
- No DRM bullshit like Zune
- Handles DivX and Xvid formats, yay for geeks
- FM radio
- Records FM radio
- Voice recorder
- Great screen
- No proprietary software needed (like iTunes), just drag and drop
What's wrong:
- Not strong enough ad campaign
- Not enough accessories
And you can't replace the battery yourself when it dies. I understand this is to conserve on space inside the chassis, but it's still an annoyance.
An addition to the "what's wrong" list:
- It sucks ass
After 5 minutes of frustrating attempts to use it while I was in a store, I gave up.
By comparison, anyone knows how to use an iPod after one minute.
Yeah maybe it's best you give up on more complex devices... just stick to what Apple has to offer.
Funny, I figured out the basics after a few minutes. Granted I didn't have the whole feature set down, but still. How hard is it?? So you'll have to read the manual when you buy it, to access the device's full potential. Oh no, it's the end of the world.
Indeed, we figure out how annoying and overly sensitive the clickwheel is right off the bat, no learning curve there.
i didn't have any trouble with using the vision:m.
i rather prefer it to the crappy ipods, as ipods are far more expensive for less storage space, and seem to break far easier than the nomads.
Stupid thing to say being that the Zune is made by Toshiba
No, I have to read the manual to be able to browse through the music collection. So Creative...
Other things wrong with the Creative Zen Vision:M...
Poor build quality/cheap materials
Lackluster design
Very 'clunky' to hold, the thing just feels cheap
These are big turn-offs, not that the Zune is any better at all.
I think the hardware on Zune is great... but the software reeks of RIAA pandering... no PR favors with the Universal deal either.
Um no. That was one of the easy features I picked up right off the bat. I guess someone is gadget-challenged.
I'm so glad that Engadget took the time to tell me this ever so important piece of information that is relevant to me, even if I can not fathom for the life of me what that relevance might involve.
I'm sorry engadget doesn't pander to your own personal needs and ignore the rest of the internet.
...WTF?
@John: Always wondered who's blog this was, now I know.
Indeed. I'm gadget-challenged regarding any gadget that has an unintuitive UI.
Toshiba hard ware SUCKS!!!!! (trust me, i know from experience)
Well then, there is no need for me to ever explore this gadget subject again! Master Jedi Dan knows from EXPERIENCE that [all] Toshiba Hardware Sucks!
This is the kind of thing that gets my goat, you get someone who presumably has a problem with a couple pieces of hardware, and the next thing, IT SUCKS!!11!
"Trust me, I know from experience" That's really funny....coming from a dude who calls himself Master Jedi Dan.
Anti-Toshiba fanboys, Anti-apple fanboys, Anti-Microsoft fanboys....you're all a bunch of little whinging bitches. How about assessing individual products on their MERITS (or lack thereof) as opposed to some reactionary pseudo anti-consumerist rhetoric, or better still, an immature brand attachment that marketing firms would murder children for, in order to be able to bottle it and sell it.
The manufacturing companies just laugh and count their Yen/Yuan/Dollars. And so they should.
Man, I need a coffee or something.
Nope- my Toshiba cellphone (V904T) is great. It's survived all manner of falls and condensation (and water spills too). No other cellphone has been so resilient (and this is the reason I want to avoid a Razr-like phone of any sort- too fragile).
Ok dude, now I will make my point because you just have to whine about this. I have a one-year old Toshiba Satellite laptop. Recently, (as in the past couple years), Toshiba has made some terrible hardware. First of all, most of the Toshiba laptops that they have made in the past two or three years have a problem with static electricity. They build up static electricity very easily and then they just shut off. The computer doesn’t go through “Windows is shutting down”, or anything like that, it’s just like boom, it’s off. This gets really annoying when you’re playing a game, or writing a paper, or ripping a dvd, etc., and then your computer just turns itself off. Very helpful feature. Toshiba got sued because of this defect in their laptops and everyone who owns one of them got another year of warranty starting Nov. 6 2006. Secondly, my Toshiba laptop has a 3.33 GHz Pentium 4. Because Toshiba poorly made the hardware in my laptop, it quickly overheats and turns itself off in the same manner as it does with the static electricity. I can’t use a cooling pad or anything like that because it heats up on the top, not the bottom, so if I was to use a cooling pad a third of the keyboard would be covered. As of now, I have to have the windows in my room open so that my computer doesn’t heat up and turn itself off. If you haven’t noticed lately, it’s winter, so it makes it very annoying when my room temperature is 40 degrees F just to keep my computer from turning itself off. I have sent it in to Toshiba to see if they could fix this problem; they replaced the fans but unfortunately this has not changed anything. So I ask you, wouldn't you be really hacked off if your computer turned itself off every hour unless you kept the temperature in your room at 40 or 50 degrees F just to keep it from shutting off?
how is it the news papers are ingnoring the Zune fact that it will not "squirt" most of it'spurchased songs.
THAT"S it no. 1 selling point.
I'm really glad to hear of this. All the while I was wondering if Microsoft acutally believed that their partners like Creative were making decent competitors to the iPod.
Now at least I know they're not blind: they do see the flaws in the products that consumers see. This is quite reassuring. It's such a shame Allchin has retired now. Let's hope the realism in the company doesn't stray: that way, we'll all be in for better products across the consumer electronics industry.
You already have the better products. They are called iPods.
I don't understand why people give the Zune such a hard time. Most likely because Microsoft makes it. It's a nice device and Microsoft will only improve with time. Nobody can just jump into a market and take control. The iPod popularity truly only began about 3 years ago. And at that point they had already had an iPod out for about 3 years. So just give Microsoft a little time, they will catch up.
aaa,
If you believe this site is so biased, why are you reading it? No one if forcing you to, and trust me, engadget won't shed a tear once your gone.
So do us all a favor, quit bitchin and just don't read it anymore if you hate it so much.
The iPod is an awesome device. It just rocks.
Also, the iPhone is so much better than any MS mobile 5 device.
I have owned the Treo 700 and now the Q, but after watching the Apple Keynote - the iPhone is so much better - no comparison.
i didnt know you could feel and try things with your eyes.
Agree with riggs.
I seriously doubt you ever used Windows Mobile, and I don't see how it is even comparable, like you could do what you can with Windows Mobile on iPhone a closed system.
Now, shoo shoo, go to your Apple Zealot forums and let the unbiased people discuss.
wow. moron. oo yeah its so much better. for triple the price it better be much better, but im sure u know cuz u saw it and since steve jobs said it is, it just must be. morons.
How you could even say that the Zune has a better interface than the iPod is a practical joke...perhaps the M$ fanboys need to step back and look into reality. (Also, this is not coming from someone that likes Apple at all. To be honest I have been using nothing but windows since 3.1 and I hate Steve Jobs more than anyone next to Hitler and Stalin and hope that he actually gets busted for the backdating of his stock options)
Get a clue folks. Everything is made by everyone else. Except for plastic, software, and assembly, Apple doesn't make anything else that goes into an iPod. That is how things are manufactured. Because Toshiba builds the Zune doesn't mean it is anything like a GigaBeat. Is your Microsoft mouse the same as your Logitech mouse? They could be made in the same factory and you would never know it.
I love my Zune, its a good player, iPods are good, and so are many of the Creative players. My choice doesn't make your choice wrong and visa versa. Buy the one you want and find something important to be concerned about.
"-Antiquated interface on iPOD"
Who cares if it hasn't been updated recently? It works better than any player I've used. It could be a thousand years old for all I care.
"iTUNES wants to take over your music folders by reorganizing everything and putting your "singles" in a folder higherarchy that makes it extremely difficult to manage"
It shows how much you know about iTunes. It only changes your hierarchy if you want it to. It's as simple as checking a box. Sure, iPods aren't as good as say some of the Archos players in the way you can organize your music, but I'm satisfied.
"Closed battery access. Who the heck wants to ship their player to get a new battery?"
A low of people complain about this. First of all you don't have to ship the player to get a new battery. It's a hassle, but you can buy 3rd party batteries and install them at home. If you're talking about the 'iPod batteries die after a couple years' controversy, that was resolved years ago. I doubt more than a couple percent of the market even cares about using a different battery.
"Everybody has one - so much for individuality"
Oh no! The big bad anti-conformist god will kill me for getting it! Think for yourself. Why are you getting it? Is it because it's popular or more respectably because you value the features more than those of other players?
"Overpriced players"
They're somewhat more expensive than some players, but you by just holding it you can tell it's made of high quality materials. It doesn't just feel like plastic like a Zen Vision:M does.
"Can't install iTunes without quicktime (another Nazi like application)"
I have never liked the inclusion of Quicktime, but I use it on a regular basis anyways, so I don't care. Are you saying that you never have to use QT? For example I prefer HD movie trailers on Apple.com/trailers rather than low quality ones on Youtube or elsewhere.
"Steve Jobs marketing lies. "The world's first pocketable device with a full web browser" when referring to the overhyped iphone. Hey Steve.......ever use a Windows Mobile Phone? Mine has a full featured browser and it fits in my pocket!"
Um, didn't you say these complaints were about the iPod?
"No FM"
That's the reason I have an iPod - so I don't have to listen to the radio.
If you're going to bash the iPod get some valid reasons.
Why do you care? Why does it matter to you at all whether they prefer Apple products or not? The writers are people, they have opinions, and it is people's opinions that make them interesting.
Antiquated Interface - Why fix something that isn't broken, and is still ahead of the competition? I actually like iTunes keeping my folders in order. I don't care if my iPod isn't individual enough. It's just my mp3 player, not my life. It works well, and i feel like i got what i paid for. Something thoughtfully designed and well built.
But that is not the most important thing. The most important thing is that every single one of those points is my personal opinion. I'm not tring to impose it on ou or anyone else. I respect your right to complain about the way in which their software works, and to say how you have a preference to Windows and the Zune, just like i can say i like my iPod. However to then go and criticise the writers, who aren't asking you to agree with them, and are providing a fantastic service which we all enjoy for free, is just immature.
I found engadget to be incredibly patient with the Zune. They gave it plenty of pre-launch coverage, and spent plenty of time touting it's features. It's had a fair chance to catch the public's eye, and it's by no means capitalising on that chance with the slew of let-downs that we keep hearing about.
creative players owns the hell out of ipod and zune. way to go putting the foot in your mouth M$ =\
"This site is so biased it's ridiculous. Anything Microsoft does is shot down here. Everything Apple does is gold."
Really? And how about the constant iPhone bashing? What, that doesn't count?
Sorry I can't get past the "My goodness it's terrible... What I don't understand though is I was told the new Creative Labs device would be comparable to Apple. That is so not the case." comment. This is the funniest thing I've seen on engadget this week.
"Stupid thing to say being that the Zune is made by Toshiba"
Yeah, but somehow MS gets credit for agility in putting the Zune together "from the scratch" in like 18 months.
Businessweek et al need to do a bit more research on that. This is MS we're talking about.
I think I'm going to get a zune...been looking into all the mp3 players on the market (I dont like Apple), I wouldn't mind going with a Creative player...but creative ALWAYS has a very dissapointing accessory list. Like a dock...while the Zune has that. I've been adding it up, and its not gonna come cheap. (250 for the player, 40 for the dock, 20 for the mini jack that I can use to plug it into my car deck, 25 for the car charger, and then top it off with a case. SO it will really cost me like 350.
:) Except, perhaps, the apparently endless banter between the two apparently irreconcilable camps.
Aside: If a keynote is all it takes for you to conclude that the iPhone is supreme, well, alright. Hooray for the marketing folk. And we should all probably just trust the Jedi; Toshiba hardware sucks. It is spoken.
"Nobody can just jump into a market and take control. The iPod popularity truly only began about 3 years ago. And at that point they had already had an iPod out for about 3 years. So just give Microsoft a little time, they will catch up."
That is the worst prediction I have ever heard.
A lot of you folks are so hot to trot your anti-this anti-that behaviors its almost out of a text book lecture on brand marketing. Research the part that pertains to clan culture based around a product.
Trying to define individuality through a product (this is for you aaa) - toes in line with the exact paramaters marketing wants you to profess in your personal and public life. Get pissed off about a product someone owns because it "represents" all these cultural and personal connotations about someone. Example: what comes to mind when someone has an iPod, wears Diesel shoes, and has big ass sunglasses and is completely bald.
A hip graphic designer with no street smarts? Guess again, it's one of my friends who works in a homeless shelter.
Okay, examples aside about how marketing warps perception of our common brother to provide brand loyalty and drive profits through inflated pricing (hence the word: tools):
This article contains no editorial comment about Apple at all. The only comment about Apple is a quote folks. Careful reading would save you the embarrassment of showing your prolapsed rectum to the general public.
Has anyone here used a Sandisk Sansa?
I have a Sansa and I love it. The menu is nice, it has nice features, it's extremely easy to add stuff to, or take off, and best of all, when you hold it, it actually feels like something durable and worth the money. I am far from an iPod hater, and I in fact like the iPod, but the Sansa is just as good in my opinion. I recommend to anyone just to try it in the store. :)
Eric.
If I were in a market for a mp3 player, I would hold off until Apple updates its iPod line with the new UI that is going to be on the iPhone. Its a logical step for Apple to make a real video iPod with the new multi-touch technology and wide screen display. I would venture to guess Apple will eventually installs os x on all iPods.
I waited for a long time before buying an iPod. I used a Lifedrive for the longest, but it was time to change to a dedicated player. I looked at the Gigabeat, Sandisk and a few others, including the Archos.
But when I touched an iPod, it was unbelievable how easy it was to use. How intuitive. The click scroll wheel was incredible. Despite hating software aggregators such as MusicMatch, I had no such qualms about using iTunes. Again, it was intuitive and above that is home to some incredible content. But still I waited. I waited for the Zune, because it was supposed to be the iPod killer.
I used it in a store and found it to be cumbersome. It had a scroll wheel that didn't scroll. The concept of the wifi transfer was just short of ridiculous. I play music and sometimes transfer my tunes to my family. Microsoft successfuly achieved something that no one in the history of music or hardware has ever done -- They placed DRM on my own files! A 3 day limit on my own songs transferred to another Zune. I won't go into the counterintuitive setup process, which a fellow at a store took 20 minutes to go over.
In the end, I received an iPod as a gift. Yes, I am drinking the Kool-Aide and feeding into the Stevie J. Distortion Machine, but I can watch movies and listen to my entire 5,000 song record collection in peace, without worries. I can sync my podcasts in peace, without worries. The wife can listen to her soap operas daily on the way to work, on HER iPod.
And yes, we will be purchasing the AppleTV next month. Again, because of the built-in hard drive and the ability to transfer the iTunes library to a dedicated hard drive; the ability to stream any movie off of a central computer non-Apple and download movies if I want to on-demand; the ability to hook it up to the stereo system, without reaching for any more CD's.
It's been said several times before, but I chose to go the Apple route late last year, BECAUSE IT JUST WORKS!
LDD.
Dude you're my hero. Don't let simple-minded apple users bring you down!!
Imagine all the iPhone goodness without the phone ...thats the new video iPod. The new iPhone/iPod is gonna be part of Apple's new mobile platform strategy and OS X is the core.
Ok dude, now I will make my point because you just have to whine about this. I have a one-year old Toshiba Satellite laptop. Recently, (as in the past couple years), Toshiba has made some terrible hardware. First of all, most of the Toshiba laptops that they have made in the past two or three years have a problem with static electricity. They build up static electricity very easily and then they just shut off. The computer doesn’t go through “Windows is shutting down”, or anything like that, it’s just like boom, it’s off. This gets really annoying when you’re playing a game, or writing a paper, or ripping a dvd, etc., and then your computer just turns itself off. Very helpful feature. Toshiba got sued because of this defect in their laptops and everyone who owns one of them got another year of warranty starting Nov. 6 2006. Secondly, my Toshiba laptop has a 3.33 GHz Pentium 4. Because Toshiba poorly made the hardware in my laptop, it quickly overheats and turns itself off in the same manner as it does with the static electricity. I can’t use a cooling pad or anything like that because it heats up on the top, not the bottom, so if I was to use a cooling pad a third of the keyboard would be covered. As of now, I have to have the windows in my room open so that my computer doesn’t heat up and turn itself off. If you haven’t noticed lately, it’s winter, so it makes it very annoying when my room temperature is 40 degrees F just to keep my computer from turning itself off. I have sent it in to Toshiba to see if they could fix this problem; they replaced the fans but unfortunately this has not changed anything. So I ask you, would you be really hacked off if your computer turned itself off every hour unless you opened up the window in your room just to keep it from shutting off?
Well ipods are nice, they are, but people at my school, whether it's the gamers or the popular kids are moving towards the Zune. Why? Lots of the gamers at my school use Xbox 360's and the Zune integrates with that. One popular kid happened to try out his cousin's Zune, and he liked it, and all the other kids are at least interested in them. Other people simply like it because it has way better video capabilities. Nobody cares about the sharing, and nobody cares who it's from. All the consumers care about is how adequate it is. I don't really care what anybody says here about the Zune. I have a black Zune and I love it. Nobody can make me think negatively.
Dude its ok to have a zune, dont get so defensive about it. There are too many "I-wanna-explain-why-I-bought-a-zune" guys out there it almost feel like they are all having a collective buyers remorse. So, its wasnt the best buy, but hey, its your money.
Creative's Zen Vision:M is the best mp3 player (with video) out there right now. This is coming from a current Zune owner. Yes, I sold my ZVM to purchase a Zune. And there are lots of times that I regret doing so (like when converting videos that I would have just had to drag and drop on my ZVM.). The GUI on the Zune is superior to that of the ZVM and thus I was won over. The UI on the ZVM is no less difficult to grasp than the iPod(yes, I owned one of them as well). Its the same concept. I will admit that the iPod is a tad easier, but I am not in 3rd grade and not mentally retarded (sorry, was that not PC?). Thus, I was easily able to figure out the controls on the ZVM when I first got one. It may be a little more dificult and bigger than the iPod, but that's the price you pay for more features (radio, radio recording, voice recording, 252k colors as opposed to the 64K on the ipod and Zune, more battery life with video, more format support, more user customization like user backgrounds and user EQ, photo zoom, video zoom and more.). and small increase in size is just a small price to pay.
Now, to this comment. I think Microsoft needs to get their shit together. They may very well have started out in the beginning with an "everything but the kitchen sink" design but got caught up in a tangled web trying to Kiss everyone's (The RIAA, Universal) ass. Come on Misrosoft!!! put more video codec support on your device, add support for 640 x 480 resolution, get rid of the 3x3 rule or at least make it 20x10 and no limit for subscribers, make it compatible with your own Windows Media Player, drop the price to $200, promote the hell out of it and tell the RIAA and Universal to Kiss your ass. You debuted your player a year after Creative and theirs is still superior. I think you slightly edged out the iPod with your design but you guys should flushed them down the toilet. Either you're serious about getting in the game or you're not. Decide now.
I will summarize your comment.
- you owned a Zen Vision:M and now you own a Zune. And you found out that Zune sucks ass
- you also owned an iPod, but it was too good, so you decided to go for something worst (you want to be in a select cast that includes people that don't go for the best products and chose something that does the same but looks worst and they are harder to use)
- Microsoft kisses RIAA's ass and screws consumers big time
Yeah, you're right. It's just gets me riled up that people are hating on the Zune just because it's from Microsoft, and are looking for oppurtunities to rant on the Zune. Zune have flaws, like what everybody says, and like every other player (including the ipod) have flaws too. But like every other player on the market, there's positives too, but somehow they don't make it on Engadget. But you're right, I'm not going to sound like all the other fanboys and haters on this site, and be so annoying. I just feel the need to defend it.
talk about sucking...
MS even failed to suck less.
isnt the dude on the left the guy that said he would buy a mac if he didnt work at microsoft?
And the iPod was immediately a success? Many pod users have commented that the Zune menu system is quicker and looks nicer and has a nicer looking screen.And in the 30GB HDD-based player category it competes in , Zune had over 10% market share. Not bad since the iPod had a 5 yr. headstart.No other Apple competitor got more than 1%.Zune is meant to be evolutionary not revolutionary. Oh , and I wasn`t aware that the iPod wasn`t encumbered with "anti-consumer" DRM ;) FAIRPLAY isn`t DRM ?
According to the latest market figures, the Zune had a market share of 2% - less than either Creative or SanDisk. Just the facts, that's all. I myself own a Creative, but I'll be upgrading to an iPod soon.
*blocks ears from incessant RIAA-sanctioned device comparisons*
http://www.cowon.com
http://flac.sourceforge.net
1) Native drag n drop.
2) Open-source format support (the real advantage for independent artists and producers looking to distribute their work royalty-free).
3) No industry kickbacks. No industry-sanctioned stores.
What a concept. Real independence. No restrictive DRM.
Oh and you can save your PC files on virtually any operating system, unlike the hideously crippled Zunes.
Yeah, I'm all about invididuality too. That's why I use Windows.
While auto manufacturers have offered iPod-integration kits as a dealer-installed option for some time, Sync revolutionizes the way consumers connect MP3 players and mobile phones to the vehicle's central nervous system. Using either a USB port -- a standard feature on personal computers -- or Bluetooth wireless technology, Sync lets users operate and control any MP3 player through voice commands, the car steering wheel or the dashboard stereo.
It supports not only the iPod but also files purchased from iTunes as well as subscription tracks on PlaysForSure devices. Users can even stream Internet radio feeds from mobile phones through the stereo system.
Watch the video on Cnet TV and see how MSFT is way ahead of Apple.
http://www.cnettv.com/?tag=hd_ts
And to think Job`s idea of a phone revolution is fumbling around with a two-handed touch screen...NOT ! Watch the demo and be amazed.
http://www.cnettv.com/9710-1_53-25582.html
Some choice quites?
"isnt the dude on the left the guy that said he would buy a mac if he didnt work at microsoft?"
Yeah, that story came out looong ago. He's off the 'Longhorn' project obviously, so he's probably alreayd bought his new Mac. He was basically in charge of Windows, which, coupled with Office, makes up about 80% of MS's profits.
"And to think Job`s idea of a phone revolution is fumbling around with a two-handed touch screen...NOT ! Watch the demo and be amazed"
Huh? That technology is NOT new. My dad has it in his Infinity already... er...Dude i was playing with it last weekend.
And the iPhone/iPod/UM-Mac is amazing. They'll sell out like crazy. Obviously.
um....
am i the only one who thinks that $600 is a little much for a fucking phone.
i mean cmon ppl.
thats enough to feed a family for a year in some countries.
god i hate steriotypical fatass americans.
I think this article is worthy of the "CE Oh-No-He-Didn't!" tag
Marian,
I do not deny that the iPod is a nice mp3 player. It is my belief that the ZVM much better. I think the Zune and the ipod are almost on equal lengths with the Zune edging it out slightly. The iPod has a better user interface (clickwheel), more content through itunes, and games. The Zune has a better GUI (awsome menu system), offers more customization, has a radio and a bigger screen than the iPod.
I owned an iPod, but returned it because as an early adopter, I was frustrated with its video capabilities and all the video on my computer (about 15 Gigs worth) would have to be converted.
Lucky for me, the ZVM was released shortly after and all was good. I purchased a zune because I liked the design, awesome GUI, and screen. Its a work in progress so consider it mor of an investment. I don't refret buying a Zune. I knew exactly what I was getting myself into. I jus wish that Microsoft would grow a pair. Perhaps it could borrow one from Apple?
ROFL hahahah :)
Who ever did that picture have to get some prize or something! Totally awesome! :D
But I'm sure that Zune has a most of the market for brown players :-))
We're talking about the frickin ZUNE and suckage! Not the damn iPhone. Seeing as it hasn't even been RELEASED yet, it is a little premature to be bashing the product. Once it is out, bash away!
anti-consumer? Anti-copyright is more like it -- just another way that major tech corporations are widdling away at copyright protection for artists. Zunes are evil.
You know, every time I read the comments on engadget from the less logical, less intelligent...four-fifths...of the world, I feel like I'm losing brain cells. There is no 'best' device. They all have their quirks and they don't suit everyone. If you're going just by sale numbers you're only seeing what's been sold the most, and you can label it the most 'popular' if you like, but it by no means is the 'best' device. The 'best' device is what's best for YOU. And only YOU. I have an iPod. I don't like it. I use it, because my Rio Karma is dying and I'd rather preserve it. Neither were the best device for me. If someone walked up to me and gave me a 60GB device that could play OGG (MP3 not necessary), FLAC optional, do both AM and FM radio, have the ability to expand (ala Archos 402), gave me a clean intuitive UI, a clean design, and reasonable size and price, you've have me sold. That would be the best player for me. That player, of course...does not exist.
both ipod and zune are the same. good or bad is up to the user. if one knows how to use the product, it is good; otherwise, it is bad.
iphone or wm5 is the same piece of...stop crying!
windows os and ms has been suck, the whole world uses it everyday...
good or bad, just ask the sale person whether or not they want to sale the products...don't cry...