Flash-based Zune due in Q407, better WiFi soon

It looks like the same discussion with Chris Stephenson that yielded that 2007 European Zune launch figure also gave up a few more details about the Zune line: apparently we can expect a flash-based Zune for the holiday season later this year (damn they're taking their dear sweet time on that) and apparently Stephenson also hinted at "a truly WiFi-enabled device" at some point in the future, according to Digital Music News. We don't really know what that means, but if it is what we think it is -- a version of the Zune that does all the things with its WiFi that the first version should have, like support over-the-air downloads and unencumbered sharing of subscription music -- then we might have to throw a little fit up in this piece. Zune peeps, we know you're reading this: upgrade the firmware and add the features, don't try to sell us a v2 device that does what the V1 device can and should. That is all.

[Zune mockup courtesy of Brian J]

[Chris Merchant @ Jan 21st 2007 10:30PM]

Thank god that's just a concept shot. It's pretty ugly.

Chris

[rems @ Jan 21st 2007 11:21PM]

it's looks like you're out of taste, I like it, it's just like a nano (old), all shiny and slick and simple in the choice of colors, it's inspiring design, and "slickness".
Tastes are personals so it's up to you how you find it. The ultimate goal for the company is to keep the consumers happy and make them buy products from the company.
All I can say is that this time the shit doesn't have the color it is supposed to have: brown.

[Jason smith @ Jan 21st 2007 10:35PM]

I Just purchased a zune and love it. Apple fanboys can stick with there ipods and $600 iphone as it stands right now I will stay with zune.

[jack ryan @ Jan 22nd 2007 12:34PM]

too bad your lame zune can't even be used as a hard disk, a simple feature every MP3 player on the planet can do EXCEPT the zune.

[Jonathan Keim @ Jan 21st 2007 10:35PM]

Makes perfect sense that they would improve and broaden their market.

I do love itunes because of their music store and smart playlists, so I will continue to stick with them. I'm not sure how great sharing music is anyway. Why not just pop out the earbud and share it that way.
I wouldn't be surprised if most zune users do that anyway. Who reads the manual or cares about extra features?

[Matt @ Jan 21st 2007 10:37PM]

Sorry for bringing apple into this but doesnt that look like the first gen ipod shuffle?

[DM @ Jan 21st 2007 11:39PM]

Ipod shuffle doesn't have a screen. Go see an optometrist.

[Equis @ Jan 21st 2007 10:37PM]

Exciting, now Microsoft can have 1% share of the flash-based player market too.

[Tek @ Jan 22nd 2007 12:27AM]

"Exciting, now Microsoft can have 1% share of the flash-based player market too.

Zune had 10.2% of the 30GB market in December. Thats 10.2% Apple didn'et get.

http://publications.mediapost.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Articles.showArticleHomePage&art_aid=54163

[ferny @ Jan 22nd 2007 12:36AM]

according to apple MS' marketshare was 3% but that was in a month and only one player. now if they get at the very minimum 1% they will accumulate 4% marketshare. and I doubt that they will just grab just 1% since the nano is the one that sells vs. the hard drive iPods. I think a flash zune will gain some serious ground.

[lt.milo @ Jan 21st 2007 10:39PM]

^ here is one instance that the earbud thing wont work. Yesterday I was skiing with some friends. Me and my friend both have a zune. He wants to listen to one of my songs on the slopes, poping one of my earbuds out would not have done the trick.

[Jonathan Keim @ Jan 21st 2007 11:04PM]

Very interesting, and I'm not being sarcastic. I think that would have been awesome to be wirelessly streaming music while going 30 mph down a hill.

But who else is going to be doing that and how often ;)

[ojjo ih @ Jan 25th 2007 4:30PM]

...are you a walking zune commmercial?
that's exactly what they featured in an ad...

and that happens to how many people?

Zune can have their skiing-music sharing market. have fun.

[Jeff @ Jan 21st 2007 10:41PM]

"Sorry for bringing apple into this but doesnt that look like the first gen ipod shuffle?"

You mean, other than the gigantic screen that the shuffle totally lacks?

Yeah, the other 1/3 of it looks like 1/3 of the shuffle.

[james cordero @ Jan 21st 2007 10:55PM]

Come on guys quit the fighting, all he said was didn't the overall shape resemble the shuffle, not that it was the shuffle. Obviously, it is intended to compete against the nano. As for the sharing, with Sony and Universal saying that between 50-60 percent of the pusic downloaded is not able to be shared via wi-fi, so much for the so-called social. What sucks for both Apple and Microsoft is that they have no choice put to placate the music idustry and their archaic sysyem that thinks they are really stemming their loses from piracy. They ought to look at the mediocre talent that they incest and sign as their main culprits in declining revenues.

[humpty @ Jan 21st 2007 10:57PM]

When is ZUNE coming to CANADA, eh?

[Cowboy Bob @ Jan 22nd 2007 3:01PM]

it already is EH! you can only get them off of TigerDirect though...

its okay, i like my ipod, even if the screen is small

[alex @ Jan 22nd 2007 10:31AM]

Just count your blessings it hasn't marred your countryside as of yet. Pray it doesn't...ever.

[Irwin @ Jan 21st 2007 11:02PM]

@humpty YEA MAN, WHEEEN

[PEZ @ Jan 21st 2007 11:10PM]

This better play porn

[Aaron Rodriguez @ Jan 21st 2007 11:22PM]

i for one think that concept looks awesome.... the larger screen will definately be an advantage over the ipod (provided its actually good). And I hope we see a v2 device in the next year. They need to get a widescreen model out and reduce the size some and improve battery life (I actually would rather they keep it thicker than the ipod but not 2x as much in order to get better battery life... like my gigabeat S and its thickness... to me it feels better than the 30 gig ipod does in my hand)

[Endejas @ Jan 21st 2007 11:28PM]

I'd be friggin surprised if I could share music from my Zune to this flash-based player.

But then again, I'd be disappointed I couldn't.

[2Perfect @ Jan 21st 2007 11:29PM]

Yeah it totally looks like the iPod shuffle. It's a bar-type mp3 player, which kinda looks like a cellphone, which kinda looks like a chocolate bar. Going with this logic, the new Zune totally looks like a tree =)

btw, I'm not defending microsoft (I have an iPod) but seriously stop it with the "zomg $var1 copied $var2 lololololawlawl". It's getting old. They will obviously all end up looking the same since they perform the same function and head toward the same objectives.

PS: my ipod totally sucks and from what I've heard, the zune sucks too. I should've stuck with my sony mp3 player =/

[Xinyu @ Jan 21st 2007 11:34PM]

I can't believe people are excited over Zune.

[DM @ Jan 21st 2007 11:45PM]

Believe it or not, not all people are Apple fanboys, like you.

[Neo @ Jan 22nd 2007 2:03PM]

DM, I believe that not all people are MS fanboys like you. My suggestion to MS fanboys: get an iPod and stop bitching.

[potato @ Jan 21st 2007 11:46PM]

I'm excited. I'm not *against* the Zune or anyone else entering the mp3 market, even as a Mac user I'd love to see some competition in the field. The Zune's most compelling feature is the music subscription, and if they can ship a QUALITY player with all the features I want with it, then I'm sold.

Important things:

- Subscription needs to be real. No more of this "oh, you paid $15 for your subscription but the REAL popular songs are excluded..."
- WiFi needs to work. I want to buy online, I want to synch wirelessly!
- Mac client. I'm the minority, but I use a Mac. Give me something that is as good as iTunes on the Mac and I'm sold!

[v_dogg @ Jan 22nd 2007 12:00AM]

Ahaha, hey it looks like this new zune has an advantage over the iPhone. True 16x9 movies. lol

[Scholmo @ Jan 22nd 2007 12:06AM]

"Ahaha, hey it looks like this new zune has an advantage over the iPhone. True 16x9 movies. lol"

MOVIES AREN'T MADE IN 16x9!!! Jeez when will people learn....

Being an owner of multiple Macs and twice as many iPods (one of each since 3rd gen) - I'd love to see this go down as long as a Mac client is included. Hell, I would already own a Zune if there was a Mac client for the subscription alone... I spend over $150/mo at the iTunes store...

[modenadude @ Jan 22nd 2007 1:06AM]

Wow man, calm down with the clarification - it was a funny comment and a good bash on iPhone's supposed 16x9 viewing. "16x9" has turned into a term rather than a ratio it seems. Oh, and by the way, some movies are made in 16x9, the straight from HD ones. Take care.

[crescentdavid @ Jan 22nd 2007 12:45AM]

I remember when Netscape (remember them?) had 90% marketshare & when the Palm OS had the market and when the PSP had it's market ... well, you get the drift.

This is year one for the Zune. MS is on record saying they'll support this player (just like they did with the xbox) come hell or high water for the next 5 years.

Flash drives are a nice addition to the line. Real WiFi is the next step.

Stay tuned, applets. I remember when 1993 was a very good year for the Newton.

[Mark Oland @ Jan 22nd 2007 12:52AM]

I don't get it. Why are people cheering for the Zune? Even if you're not for the iPod, the Zune is downright terrible. The software is bloated and slow, which is unacceptable given it's just a re-skin of WMP11. The design of it is downright ugly (looks like a fat chinese iPod knockoff... no thanks.. if I'm not going to get an iPod, I want something that looks unique) , and worst of all your money goes right into the pockets of the RIAA with every purchase.

It's not even original hardware. It's just an uglified toshiba gigabeat with useless WiFi and more DRM.

[Rock Stone @ Jan 22nd 2007 1:16AM]

That looks like a lik-m-stick (sic) - those chaulky edible sticks that you dip into the powdered, flavored sugar crystals of yesteryear when tubes of pure sugar as long as your college bong were being sold to kids for mere dimes for instant and total consumption.

That stick looks dipped.

[Mitch @ Jan 22nd 2007 1:33AM]

wow people can't read... it's a mock up done by someone who "thinks" that is what it is going to look like. There is no way it is going to look like that. props to the effort though.

cheers
ps. please ms and apple fan boiis stop the bickering and go listen to some music or something

[pbg @ Jan 22nd 2007 2:13AM]

funny thing about these arguments is that REAL apple fanboys (like me) don't hate on microsoft products or any others. It's kind of a silent moral superiority. If you like your 'Zune' I am really happy for you. No, for real, i am REALLY HAPPY for you. :)

[Sandman619 @ Jan 22nd 2007 2:36AM]

Looks like Microsoft is sticking with the “I want to be an iPod so badly” faux scroll wheel. Well good for them. It’s a great reminder as to what makes Apple’s products innovative and often revolutionary, rather than immitative simple today’s tech.

[Jander @ Jan 22nd 2007 2:52AM]

@Sandman619

Nah, the "faux" scroll wheel is just more aesthetically pleasing that the gigabeat S's before it, plus sign navigation input. The circle looks better. The real kicker though, is the interface it powers. Quite frankly, I like it more than the iPod's.

[Genuis Bartender @ Jan 22nd 2007 4:49AM]

7 buttons on the Zune.

1 button on the iPod.

1 button on the iPhone.

[Carlos @ Jan 22nd 2007 7:09AM]

I'm a "Macfanboy", but I don't have any problem with the Zune except that its another ploy by Microsoft to make people buy a crappy product. Yes- the sharing thing is cool, but not when it doesn't work with the song or when it only lasts 3 plays or 3 days. About the skiing music sharing- you should seriously be paying attention instead of exchanging music while your skiing-it's dangerous! I think its good the iPod has some competition, that keeps Apple in line. Don't worry though you PC Nerds, I won't stick with Apple if they ever make an inferior or crappy product *you wish*. I'm only loyal b/c my products have worked well and if there was ever any problem- which is quite rare- they had great support, free too. If you think Apple is just some sort of fashion or a marketing ploy, go to an Apple store. The people are eager to help and explain how you can use your computer in plain English.
P.S.- I think there's some comments here that were posted by Microsoft on purpose: examle: *Like oh my gosh! I got a Zune and its sooo great, I don't care what anyone says! I went to the beach and used the sharing capability while I was surfing! You can't do that with an iPod can u?*

[Fish @ Jan 22nd 2007 7:10AM]

Well, it is quite like M$ to rush something to get it released and put out fixes not long after...

[gizmoguy @ Jan 22nd 2007 9:24AM]

"silent moral superiority" – ROFL, silent would mean that you don’t go plastering your “moral superiority” on the web you loud-mouthed moral iDiot.

Its more like egotistic, self absorbed, small minded fanboys who feel better about their crappy mac computer by pointing out the obvious missing components about other products. Oh wait *sarcasm* my computer actually plays the worlds most popular games (a little something fanboys downplay because their itunes and ipod is all they need in a computer). Most of us use our computers for more advanced things than just playing music.

* "Wifi is crippled"
- When your ipod gets wifi, let me know, we'll compare the features then
* "Fatter and uglier"
- Its got a larger screen, of course its gonna be a tad larger. If it came with a smaller screen and was lighter than the 30gb ipod, all the fanboys would be jumping on the "oh, it has a tiny screen" bandwagon.
* "Locked in"
- When your ipod battery takes a shit after 18 months, what other product can you transfer your paid music too? You can’t, you are locked in for life buying crappy ipods, but who cares if its crappy, everyone will see how “cool” you *think* you are which makes ipods completely worth it.

Anything that doesn't have a crappy apple logo is gonna be considered "evil" and "worse" to the fanboys out there regardless if it offers more features and is more customizable. So fanboys, instead of posting unbiased *sarcasm* opinions on tech blogs, why don't you focus on gaining more than 5% of the desktop market.

[ww @ Jan 22nd 2007 9:56AM]

I think the design is good, but the 'Zune' logo should definitely less visible and not all over the device. The current Zune use kind of rubbery shell, I think hard plastic shell is better.

I know Microsoft has no problem 'borrowing' ideas from others, use stickers as faceplate (even nicer, kit for your own design using color printer).

Drop the round buttons, try smooth surface touch sensitive (esp using sticker for faceplate design) Try to copy the ipod circular pad without breaking the law (why? because, you use the same motion regardless of the device orientation)

[raichu @ Jan 22nd 2007 10:03AM]

I have already stopped arguing with Apple fanboys, because it's really just a waste of time. Most of them have lost a sense of reality. They pay huge premiums on Apple products and think they are part of the elite group that owns the sexiest gadgets that all work beautifully together. For the next few months after they spent a several hundred dollars, they can be all proud and happy with their toy, until a new better model comes out a whole 3 months later.

In reality, Apple is using them, because the company knows it can count of these people to keep pouring out money buying Apple products. A type of brainwashing that seems to be working.

Want some facts?
-Apple makes HUGE margins on the ipod. $250 video ipod for sale. It only costs Apple about $130 to make it.
-Microsoft makes almost nothing on the Zune player. $250 Zune, cost is about the same.

Differences?
Zune has: built-in radio ($40 extra for ipod),
wifi (doesn't exist for ipod),
scratch-free body (extra $30 case to protect your ipod),
customizable features (doesn't exist on ipod),
list goes on and on....

[Marian @ Jan 22nd 2007 11:29AM]

"Want some facts?
-Apple makes HUGE margins on the ipod. $250 video ipod for sale. It only costs Apple about $130 to make it.
-Microsoft makes almost nothing on the Zune player. $250 Zune, cost is about the same."

Not because Zune is better. It's because merchants are willing to sell the iPod for a much lower margin -- they sell a lot and they sell accesories. Good luck with Zune on that side!




"Zune has: built-in radio ($40 extra for ipod),"

That's the extra nobody is willing to add to the iPod. Because people pay 250 bucks to get rid of the crappy FM stations.


"wifi (doesn't exist for ipod),"

Only that Microsoft transformed it into crippleware ;-) Totally useless on a Zune... Anyway, that's no reason to switch.


"scratch-free body (extra $30 case to protect your ipod),"

Yeah, the same plastic as my toilet scrub.


"customizable features (doesn't exist on ipod),"

What??? And you probably forget about the missing features in the Zune, like podcasts, audiobooks, etc...

[Naveen @ Jan 22nd 2007 10:04AM]

All the Mac fanboys - please get a life, and stop bashing a product that you haven't even tried. Zune is the first Microsoft product I've ever purchased. And I'm totally happy with it. I like the interface much better than the iPod, thank you! And I've hacked it to enable mass storage (which might be opened up in a later firmware for all you know - btw, did the 1st gen ipod allow mass storage?).

"So fanboys, instead of posting unbiased *sarcasm* opinions on tech blogs, why don't you focus on gaining more than 5% of the desktop market" --- Believe me gizmoguy... they've been trying that for a long time now. :D

[omega @ Jan 22nd 2007 10:23AM]

Personally I have an iPod, and i'm not apple fanboy. Using the zune is sad to say...lacking. I had big hopes for it. The thing that I loved about the zune though was the interface. Backdrops, huge album art; It all looked great compared to the bland white background that the iPod has. I'm hoping Microsoft improves the physical use of the scrolling (click wheel? track wheel or something!). The improved wifi would be nice if you could delete music on the go, so you could get around the 3 days 3 plays thing. The nice thing about this being on a microsoft budget is the amount of money that they can throw at it, if it fails they won't feel any big stock drops.

[Marian @ Jan 22nd 2007 11:23AM]

Microsoft:
"Due to the popular demand, we decided to photoshop a nanoesque zune and announce it".

It's sad when people don't see the vaporware...

[craig @ Jan 22nd 2007 12:28PM]

"- When your ipod gets wifi, let me know, we'll compare the features then"

The iPod is getting WiFi in the iPhone version so we can compare. The iPhone offers no sharing via WiFi and no WiFi purchasing of music from iTS. All the complaints about Zune's lack of features apply to the iPhone (and moreso) yet people are strangely silent. I thought Apple was waiting til it could do iPod WiFi "right".

Oh yeah, the iPod interface on the iPhone is substantially upgraded and operates totally differently than previous iPods. Wonder why that is? If the iPod clickwheel is the greatest interface ever then why don't we see it on the iPhone?

"That's the extra nobody is willing to add to the iPod. Because people pay 250 bucks to get rid of the crappy FM stations."

FM radios are great for gym workouts since the TV audio is typically offered that way.

"Only that Microsoft transformed it into crippleware ;-) Totally useless on a Zune... Anyway, that's no reason to switch."

...and even more crippled on the iPhone. iPod features, WiFi, and...nothing!

"What??? And you probably forget about the missing features in the Zune, like podcasts, audiobooks, etc..."

Podcasts aren't Apple or iPod features, they are simply audio files that automatically download into iTunes. There's nothing special about them and they didn't originate from Apple. Audiobooks are the same--just another audio file. Since when are these "missing features in the Zune"?

[MeSoNerdy @ Jan 22nd 2007 4:27PM]

Alright kiddo...here we go:

"The iPod is getting WiFi in the iPhone version so we can compare. The iPhone offers no sharing via WiFi and no WiFi purchasing of music from iTS. All the complaints about Zune's lack of features apply to the iPhone (and moreso) yet people are strangely silent. I thought Apple was waiting til it could do iPod WiFi "right"."

WiFi in the iPhone isn't intended to be an iPod feature. Remember, iPhone is essentially 3 products housed in a single device - multi-touch widescreen iPod, Phone and internet communicator. The implementation of wifi in iPhone is part of the internet communicator. There is a full-on desktop-class Safari web browser, desktop-class mail client with POP3 and IMAP support and numerous desktop widgets like Google maps that will all take advantage of the wifi in iPhone just as they would on a laptop or desktop computer. You can be rest assured, when Apple feels like they can introduce an iPod feature that uses wifi in an elegant, consumer-friendly manner, they most certainly will. With Apple, they tend to include features that 80% of it's users can and will use with as little complication as possible. With regards to wifi as it would function in an iPod, I would guess that they would want it to be really fast - 802.11N speed prolly. We shall see...probably sooner than all of us thinks.

"Oh yeah, the iPod interface on the iPhone is substantially upgraded and operates totally differently than previous iPods. Wonder why that is? If the iPod clickwheel is the greatest interface ever then why don't we see it on the iPhone?"

Yeah, that's called innovation and innovations requires that you rethink things and not be afraid to leap ahead beyond an idea or approach that may very well be working just fine as it is, which could be said about the scroll wheel. I think once you actually get into multi-touch and see it's potential as an interface, you'll get it. Go back and study some of the 200 or so patents filed by Apple in the past 3 years and you'll see the potential implementations.

"FM radios are great for gym workouts since the TV audio is typically offered that way."

A very good point as I've been on the elliptical machine before listening to my iPod and wishing I could tune in. I'm willing to bet that if you were to sample iPod customers you'd probably find a small percentage of them wanting this feature. Again, Apple doesn't like to add features to target a small percentage of users. Lots of people would probably never use it and once you add a feature, its' very very hard to pull it out. They'd rather spend the money on a feature that most people will make good use of. As a consumer, I can appreciate that because personally, I'd rather not spend my money on a ton of features that don't pertain to me. If you want a radio, spend a small amount of pocket change and buy the iPod radio headphones.

"...and even more crippled on the iPhone. iPod features, WiFi, and...nothing!"

No no, please see the iPhone web browsing, email and widget features. Some other fantastic apps that will make full use of wifi that haven't really been talked about yet. Zune isn't even using the internet with their implementation so yes, I'd say it's pretty crippled. On top of that, the ridiculous DRM limitations imposed on the sharing is pretty high on the cripple-meter if you ask me. Just sayin...

"Podcasts aren't Apple or iPod features, they are simply audio files that automatically download into iTunes. There's nothing special about them and they didn't originate from Apple. Audiobooks are the same--just another audio file. Since when are these "missing features in the Zune"?"

You know, Podcasting has been around for years now and had been available to me for some time prior to it's iTunes implementation. I all but ignored it because I'm a busy guy and it was a pain to keep up with not to mention I spent a good deal of time listening to my iPod and they were pretty much treated as any other song or mp3. That made it messy and meant that I had to go about tweaking playlists to keep podcasts from bleeding into my everyday music listening. When Apple decided to put quite a bit of emphasis on Podcasts in it's iTunes + iPod system, I became an iPod junky in the first order. Subscriptions are all cleanly managed within iTunes and podcast became a iTunes class along-side songs, audiobooks, videos and the like. Now I listen to all of my podcast programming in a very seamless manner, with my subscriptions working according to my listening habits. If tomorrow I were to wake up labotomized and decide that I needed to go out and grab me a Zune, I would lose all of that Podcast support and that would be a shame. There is no podcast support on the Zune or in the Zune market place. On the Zune, podcasts truly are just another file.

[greg @ Jan 22nd 2007 12:57PM]

when in the hell do people use there ipod as a portable harddrive mabye one or two but big that the zune cant do it.

go buy a flash drive