Flash-based Zune due in Q407, better WiFi soon
By Ryan Block 
posted January 21st 2007 10:28PM
posted January 21st 2007 10:28PM
It looks like the same discussion with Chris Stephenson that yielded that 2007 European Zune launch figure also gave up a few more details about the Zune line: apparently we can expect a flash-based Zune for the holiday season later this year (damn they're taking their dear sweet time on that) and apparently Stephenson also hinted at "a truly WiFi-enabled device" at some point in the future, according to Digital Music News. We don't really know what that means, but if it is what we think it is -- a version of the Zune that does all the things with its WiFi that the first version should have, like support over-the-air downloads and unencumbered sharing of subscription music -- then we might have to throw a little fit up in this piece. Zune peeps, we know you're reading this: upgrade the firmware and add the features, don't try to sell us a v2 device that does what the V1 device can and should. That is all.[Zune mockup courtesy of Brian J]
"Want some facts?
-Apple makes HUGE margins on the ipod. $250 video ipod for sale. It only costs Apple about $130 to make it.
-Microsoft makes almost nothing on the Zune player. $250 Zune, cost is about the same."
Not because Zune is better. It's because merchants are willing to sell the iPod for a much lower margin -- they sell a lot and they sell accesories. Good luck with Zune on that side!
"Zune has: built-in radio ($40 extra for ipod),"
That's the extra nobody is willing to add to the iPod. Because people pay 250 bucks to get rid of the crappy FM stations.
"wifi (doesn't exist for ipod),"
Only that Microsoft transformed it into crippleware ;-) Totally useless on a Zune... Anyway, that's no reason to switch.
"scratch-free body (extra $30 case to protect your ipod),"
Yeah, the same plastic as my toilet scrub.
"customizable features (doesn't exist on ipod),"
What??? And you probably forget about the missing features in the Zune, like podcasts, audiobooks, etc...
All the Mac fanboys - please get a life, and stop bashing a product that you haven't even tried. Zune is the first Microsoft product I've ever purchased. And I'm totally happy with it. I like the interface much better than the iPod, thank you! And I've hacked it to enable mass storage (which might be opened up in a later firmware for all you know - btw, did the 1st gen ipod allow mass storage?).
"So fanboys, instead of posting unbiased *sarcasm* opinions on tech blogs, why don't you focus on gaining more than 5% of the desktop market" --- Believe me gizmoguy... they've been trying that for a long time now. :D
Personally I have an iPod, and i'm not apple fanboy. Using the zune is sad to say...lacking. I had big hopes for it. The thing that I loved about the zune though was the interface. Backdrops, huge album art; It all looked great compared to the bland white background that the iPod has. I'm hoping Microsoft improves the physical use of the scrolling (click wheel? track wheel or something!). The improved wifi would be nice if you could delete music on the go, so you could get around the 3 days 3 plays thing. The nice thing about this being on a microsoft budget is the amount of money that they can throw at it, if it fails they won't feel any big stock drops.
Microsoft:
"Due to the popular demand, we decided to photoshop a nanoesque zune and announce it".
It's sad when people don't see the vaporware...
this gets more and more tiresome everytime.
"- When your ipod gets wifi, let me know, we'll compare the features then"
The iPod is getting WiFi in the iPhone version so we can compare. The iPhone offers no sharing via WiFi and no WiFi purchasing of music from iTS. All the complaints about Zune's lack of features apply to the iPhone (and moreso) yet people are strangely silent. I thought Apple was waiting til it could do iPod WiFi "right".
Oh yeah, the iPod interface on the iPhone is substantially upgraded and operates totally differently than previous iPods. Wonder why that is? If the iPod clickwheel is the greatest interface ever then why don't we see it on the iPhone?
"That's the extra nobody is willing to add to the iPod. Because people pay 250 bucks to get rid of the crappy FM stations."
FM radios are great for gym workouts since the TV audio is typically offered that way.
"Only that Microsoft transformed it into crippleware ;-) Totally useless on a Zune... Anyway, that's no reason to switch."
...and even more crippled on the iPhone. iPod features, WiFi, and...nothing!
"What??? And you probably forget about the missing features in the Zune, like podcasts, audiobooks, etc..."
Podcasts aren't Apple or iPod features, they are simply audio files that automatically download into iTunes. There's nothing special about them and they didn't originate from Apple. Audiobooks are the same--just another audio file. Since when are these "missing features in the Zune"?
Alright kiddo...here we go:
"The iPod is getting WiFi in the iPhone version so we can compare. The iPhone offers no sharing via WiFi and no WiFi purchasing of music from iTS. All the complaints about Zune's lack of features apply to the iPhone (and moreso) yet people are strangely silent. I thought Apple was waiting til it could do iPod WiFi "right"."
WiFi in the iPhone isn't intended to be an iPod feature. Remember, iPhone is essentially 3 products housed in a single device - multi-touch widescreen iPod, Phone and internet communicator. The implementation of wifi in iPhone is part of the internet communicator. There is a full-on desktop-class Safari web browser, desktop-class mail client with POP3 and IMAP support and numerous desktop widgets like Google maps that will all take advantage of the wifi in iPhone just as they would on a laptop or desktop computer. You can be rest assured, when Apple feels like they can introduce an iPod feature that uses wifi in an elegant, consumer-friendly manner, they most certainly will. With Apple, they tend to include features that 80% of it's users can and will use with as little complication as possible. With regards to wifi as it would function in an iPod, I would guess that they would want it to be really fast - 802.11N speed prolly. We shall see...probably sooner than all of us thinks.
"Oh yeah, the iPod interface on the iPhone is substantially upgraded and operates totally differently than previous iPods. Wonder why that is? If the iPod clickwheel is the greatest interface ever then why don't we see it on the iPhone?"
Yeah, that's called innovation and innovations requires that you rethink things and not be afraid to leap ahead beyond an idea or approach that may very well be working just fine as it is, which could be said about the scroll wheel. I think once you actually get into multi-touch and see it's potential as an interface, you'll get it. Go back and study some of the 200 or so patents filed by Apple in the past 3 years and you'll see the potential implementations.
"FM radios are great for gym workouts since the TV audio is typically offered that way."
A very good point as I've been on the elliptical machine before listening to my iPod and wishing I could tune in. I'm willing to bet that if you were to sample iPod customers you'd probably find a small percentage of them wanting this feature. Again, Apple doesn't like to add features to target a small percentage of users. Lots of people would probably never use it and once you add a feature, its' very very hard to pull it out. They'd rather spend the money on a feature that most people will make good use of. As a consumer, I can appreciate that because personally, I'd rather not spend my money on a ton of features that don't pertain to me. If you want a radio, spend a small amount of pocket change and buy the iPod radio headphones.
"...and even more crippled on the iPhone. iPod features, WiFi, and...nothing!"
No no, please see the iPhone web browsing, email and widget features. Some other fantastic apps that will make full use of wifi that haven't really been talked about yet. Zune isn't even using the internet with their implementation so yes, I'd say it's pretty crippled. On top of that, the ridiculous DRM limitations imposed on the sharing is pretty high on the cripple-meter if you ask me. Just sayin...
"Podcasts aren't Apple or iPod features, they are simply audio files that automatically download into iTunes. There's nothing special about them and they didn't originate from Apple. Audiobooks are the same--just another audio file. Since when are these "missing features in the Zune"?"
You know, Podcasting has been around for years now and had been available to me for some time prior to it's iTunes implementation. I all but ignored it because I'm a busy guy and it was a pain to keep up with not to mention I spent a good deal of time listening to my iPod and they were pretty much treated as any other song or mp3. That made it messy and meant that I had to go about tweaking playlists to keep podcasts from bleeding into my everyday music listening. When Apple decided to put quite a bit of emphasis on Podcasts in it's iTunes + iPod system, I became an iPod junky in the first order. Subscriptions are all cleanly managed within iTunes and podcast became a iTunes class along-side songs, audiobooks, videos and the like. Now I listen to all of my podcast programming in a very seamless manner, with my subscriptions working according to my listening habits. If tomorrow I were to wake up labotomized and decide that I needed to go out and grab me a Zune, I would lose all of that Podcast support and that would be a shame. There is no podcast support on the Zune or in the Zune market place. On the Zune, podcasts truly are just another file.
For the second time....THIS IS NOT REALLY A ZUNE.
The photo is a freakin' mock-up some guy created. Does anyone here really believe MS would release pics of the new Zune ten months before it hits?
You guys are killing me with all the bickering over how ugly this new Zune is when it's actually a non-MS concept drawing.
Excellent. I can't wait to be the first with a flash-based DAP I can't save my PC files to.
For all of you that responed to this story. Who the hell uses a music subscription service to download music? You do know that you are purchasing seriously degraded sound for $0.99 (crappy quality music). And at least in the Apple universe, if something goes wrong on your machine, your music collection may go bye-bye.
My question would be then: why are any of you buying from or even liking the idea of iTunes?
Neo, sorry son, not a fan of the zune either, but i respect what they are doing here. It's called competition, which makes it more fun and leaves us smart consumers (except you) with more choices. So my suggestion to over-sensitive and pathetic apple fanboys like you , keep your suggestion to yourself, bitch.
DM, sorry grandson, don't be mad at your grandpa, my suggestion to SOB like you is to keep your bitching to your bitch son. Got it?
By the way, DM, if you are not a MS fanboy, why are you bitching about my suggestion which is directed at MS fanboys?
"DM, sorry grandson, don't be mad at your grandpa, my suggestion to SOB like you is to keep your bitching to your bitch son. Got it?"
Wow, don't mean to sound like a grammar police here but not even the average illiterate kid out there could understand what you've just said. You have to be the dumbest kid out there, maybe the top 3 in the world. I suggest you ask your parents to proof-read your comments before you post them. You don't wanna look stupid anymore than you already are. As for your suggestion, i believe it was Neo who tried to make a suggestion, not you. So don't reply for him just because you can't retaliate to what i originally said to you. "Believe it or not, not all people are Apple fanboys, like you." And oh by the way, i don't own a zune or am planning to get one, which makes me a non-fanboy, sorry.
The problem is the original Zune should have had unencumbered wi-fi in the first place.
Why is Microsoft taking forever to implement near-ancient technologies in their existing products? I have a feeling that all these "upgrades" and "new features" are things you should have already been included in the product.
Screw this crippled product outlook, give us what's truly modern and new technology.
If you're looking for ease of use and the simplicity of an Apple ipod, the Zune comes up short. Here are the top 15 reasons NOT to buy a Zune. But maybe MS has finally addressed some of these shortcomings.
•The Zune is a re-branded Toshiba Gigabit player that is thicker, heavier-looking and blockier than an ipod.
•The wheel at the bottom isn't touch sensitive like the patented ipod scroll wheel.
•The Zune is incompatible with songs purchased from iTunes (where over 75% of digital music is purchased)
•The Zune is also incompatible with all other music stores using MS PlaysForSure DRM (ironic that Microsoft doesn't even support the format they previously endorsed and licensed to third-parties like Napster, MSN Music, Urge, etc).
•You have to purchase Zune content using MS Points. In an attempt to confuse the consumer, Microsoft sells 80 points for $1. Therefore, you think you are getting .79 songs when you are actually paying $1. You also have to purchase 400 or 800 points at a time instead of buying exactly what you want, when you want like iTunes.
•The Zune doesn't support Podcasts.
•The screen is larger but the resolution is the same as the ipod’s.
•Construction is inferior and all plastic unlike the ipod's aluminum back shell (which can be engraved for FREE and shipped for FREE if purchased from apple.com).
•Microsoft's DRM isn't as lenient as Apple's.
•Shared music on the Zune can only be played 3 times or 3 days (whatever comes first) before it disappears.
•Microsoft doesn’t inform you which purchased songs are available to transfer before you buy. Many songs, such as anything from The Rolling Stones and other top artists, can’t be transferred at all.
•The Zune software (also called Zune) doesn't manage your music and sync it to your player as seemlessly as iTunes software.
•Microsoft sets a bad precedant by giving a portion of Zune revenue to Universal Music in a desperate bid to gain influence over the record labels. If the Zune succeeds, every label will want a cut and consumers will pay higher prices for the "privilege" of playing their music on your device. The labels will also get variable pricing (higher pricing for new music) that Steve jobs refused for iTunes.
•The Zune only has a few third-party accessories whereas the ipod has thousands of accessories available, including cases, docks and even a Nike sports kit that wirelessly tracks data from your run and transmits it to your ipod Nano.
•The Zune is made by Microsoft. That about says it all. Microsoft doesn't even have the guts to put it's name on the product because of their bad reputation.
You know what ipodG8TR2, i almost agree with you. You are right, Zune doesn't do it for me, ipod will remain the most popular player out there, but not the best. Let me repeat that again, " NOT THE BEST ". That is why i purchased the creative zen vision: m. If you don't believe me why it's better, you can google the details. I believe 99% of the returns after you search the zen vision m in the search engine , sites would explain to people why it's better than the ipod. The other 1% would be from ipod fansites. I assumed maybe you have tried the zune, stated alot of zune shortcomings, some of them are true and made sense and i thought to myself that this is all a fair and unbiased review, except for your last statement
"The Zune is made by Microsoft. That about says it all. Microsoft doesn't even have the guts to put it's name on the product because of their bad reputation."
I am no MS-fanboy, i believe apple has lots of great products but the question is this, " Are all apple-fanboys really this retarded? Unbelievable.
So, you're saying: The Zune sucks because it's not an iPod?
I meant to say PODCAST junky....haste truly does make waste :)
Just wondering, do you work for Apple or have they just taken your soul?
The "filling stations" sounds niiiice.
DM, calling other people retarded doesn't make you less retarded. If you disagree with other people's opinion, you can argue with evidence. Your belief that Creative Zen is better than iPod is your belief, but should I call you retarded (although I do think so, you are probably the dumbest kid in the entire universe, #1)? Oh, I realized that you are not a MS fanboy, you are a Creative fan-dumb-boy. Are you happy now?
That is less fugly that the Brown one, but still pretty fugly.
Xinyu, for the second time, please check your grammar. Believe me , if you keep this up you're only amusing me with your poor english. As for the fanboy accusation, this creative zen vision m is my first product from creative, i also am a pc user with windows os, i have apple quicktime, altec lansing speakers, logitech mouse, hp printers and so on. You can go ahead call me a fanboy of each product, be my guest. And for the second time, please do not reply to a post not addressed to you. You are an embarrasment to your fellow apple lemmings.
DM = DuMb
Just like the original Zune: not nearly the design necessary to take over anything from the iPod. Actually, the two-tone scheme makes it look more confused than the original Zune.
I. am. an. idiot.
The Zune, and the iPod. Great systems...
If you love DRM restrictions that hinder your ability to ad content from anyhwere you. Keep flocking, sheep. CREATIVE rules!!!
That mock up does look pretty good, though.
Ok, slap a screen on the front, and it DOESN'T look like a shuffle, despite the fact that the vaporware concept has the exact same shape. The 2-tone is the real differentiator, not the screen.
I still like the design, and wouldn't mind having one myself, if not for the fact that it carries an awful codec support, has an even more obtrusive DRM scheme, and is tied into sucky ass software (Zune hardware is very nice, zune software is shit)