Skype to FCC: open up those cellular networks, please

It's painfully obvious just how tight cellular providers have control over how their networks are used, which features are enabled, and what handsets are locked, but Skype is hoping to chip away a bit more at the mighty provider stranglehold by suggesting that wireless networks be made to carry Skype calls. In a recent petition to the FCC, Skype is purportedly "asking regulators to force cellphone carriers to loosen their controls on what kinds of hardware and software can be connected to their networks," essentially paving the way for free calls to be made over costly connections. Skype is asking that the so-called Carterfone rules (circa 1968) be applied to the wireless industry, which basically "allowed consumers to hook any device up to the phone network, so long as it did not harm the network." Unsurprisingly, carriers are less than enthralled about the notion, and a cellular trade group has already reacted by calling Skype's proposal one that "completely disregards consumer benefits provided by a competitive marketplace," which is certainly nominated for laughable statement of the year. As of now, no other companies are putting their collective necks out to join Skype's agenda, but hopefully it won't remain solo for too much longer.

[Via ArsTechnica]

[Todd @ Feb 22nd 2007 11:22AM]

"completely disregards consumer benefits provided by a competitive marketplace," Say wha? That quote belongs in the "Oh No He Didn't!" category.

Just in case you missed it, here is Professor Wu's paper about how crooked the Mobile providers are:

http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/02/21/professor-singles-out-mobile-carriers-for-stifling-cellphone-inn/

[Matt @ Feb 22nd 2007 11:28AM]

I don't get this...I connect to Skype and make calls over HSDPA all the time. Even used Edge for a quick call my cell to other Skype users.

Perhaps Skype would be best to make a client for more than just Windows Mobile and move on to Symbian and Palm users as well before making a fuss about it.

The current number of users trying to Skype over a phone is very limited to one OS, provide the serivce before complaining.

[Jason @ Feb 22nd 2007 11:51AM]

I wish there was a cell provider out there who would provide network access as the commodity that it really is.

I want a SIM card with an IP number and either big blocks of data, or unlimited data.

Let me choose who provides my telephone number(s) and the services that go with it.

I'm so sick of mobile providers thinking they can charge for services that cost them nothing, like call display or voicemail.

Imagine if your cable company told you you could only buy the TVs they offered, and locked them from being used with any other service. Imagine if they charged you different amounts for the times of day you watched tv.

[Disgruntled @ Feb 22nd 2007 12:10PM]

If your cable company offered a $500 Television at a deeply subsidized price I would hope they were able to prevent you from using it elsewhere.

Mobile providers spend BILLIONS building their network for their service....if you don't like it then fortunately you are free to cancel...stop whining.

Boo hoo I have to use an AT&T number on my AT&T network plan, I believe you people just bitch for the sake of bitching, go build you a wireless network and let everyone have free reign while you make no profit but leave making money to the people who want to make money.

[Jesse S @ Feb 22nd 2007 12:36PM]

Erm...You are pretty much getting those phones for $200-$300 less then they actually are...And, at least in the CDMA world, they aren't locked, at all.

[Aaron Wagner @ Feb 22nd 2007 12:44PM]

Times will change though. I can remember when you had to pay extra for a tone-dial line over a pulse-dial line. As CallerID gets more normal, it will become an included service.

[KC @ Feb 22nd 2007 12:41PM]

@ Jason

As long as you are with a GSM carrier you are pretty much free to choose your own hardware.

I get your point, but your cable company - say COX just for example - also does not let you subscribe to Time Warner Cable and use their network.

As good as it would be for the big networks to go 100% Internet protocol and sell exclusively blocks of data which the end user was free to do with as they please, I don't think that the Wireless networks are looking to become Internet service providers just so that people can use Skype all they want without having to take out a second mortgage on their house to cover the data costs charged by the networks.

[gz @ Feb 22nd 2007 12:00PM]

That is a classic quote. Let's hope the Skypes and OpenMokos (link below) of the world keep pushing the envelope. A mobile, broadband, outside of the walled garden data pipe with the type of reach and coverage of today's mobile voice networks changes just about every market on the planet.
http://blog.nextblitz.com/blog/2007/02/openmoko_open_s.html

[Mark @ Feb 22nd 2007 12:04PM]

Oh yeah, the cell carriers only have consumers best interests in mind. That is so laughable from an industry whose business model practically defines "screwing the customer."

[ceaseoleo @ Feb 22nd 2007 12:09PM]

Maybe I don't understand, if your on a GSM network, can't you just transfer the sim card to any unlocked, and it works... at least for me , this is how worked. Whats the fuss

[Jack Givens @ Feb 22nd 2007 12:24PM]

I am guessing you are in europe where things are better in the world of handies. In the USA it is not so easy. You have to hunt for an unlocked phone and not all features of the network will be available if you just slip in a card. GSM is great but the greed of US based providers has made this difficult.

[Meico Tenkawa @ Feb 23rd 2007 10:01AM]

Wait, what? How is paying upwards of $500 to break my contact 'free to cancel'???

[Das @ Feb 22nd 2007 12:16PM]

Would those consumer benefits include removing features from phones? Or the premiums one must pay to compensate for those removed features? Or is it the monthly anal violation my credit card receives from when I made the godawful mistake of purchasing tetris on my phone because I couldn't upload a free copy?

[John Bibbs @ Feb 22nd 2007 3:05PM]

Are you an idiot?? CDMA carriers lock their phones just like GSM carriers do, matter of fact Sprint won't even let you put a locked phone on their network. The ESN on the phone has to match up as one of the phones they sell.

[Scot @ Feb 22nd 2007 12:51PM]

I think Skype should open up their network - say some form of SIP/Skype gateway, so I can get a better choose which device I use to connect with Skype, and so that users on Gizmo, Gtalk can talk to Skype users. Until that happens, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle dark grey.

[macstibs @ Feb 22nd 2007 1:06PM]

@Disgruntled

What are you smoking? "Mobile providers spend BILLIONS building their network for their service....if you don't like it then fortunately you are free to cancel...stop whining."

"providers spend BILLIONS building their network" - mostly by spending inordinate amounts on spectrum licenses because they're busy trying to outspend each other. It's called the winner's curse, and I certainly don't have to pay for it. Of course, where do you think they got the billions in the first place?

"free to cancel" - precisely the problem - there's an ETF. Hardly what you would call free market competition and certainly not as you say "free".

[Disgruntled @ Feb 22nd 2007 2:10PM]

Noone ever forced you to get a cell, nor agree to their terms of service.

You are entirely free to cancel, just pay back the money you saved by getting a subsidized phone.

Fact is you chose to get a phone, as well as which carrier you went with.

Talk about locking their customers out, what about Skype not allowing SIP? Atleast with GSM I get to pick my equipment, with Skype you are limited to proprietary protocols and have to pay for what is "Skype Compatible"

Look in the mirror and before trying to clean up the neighborhood, start with your own house Skype.

[grable @ Feb 22nd 2007 1:17PM]

I think Skype should open up their own network before pressuring others to do the same.

[Phatman @ Feb 22nd 2007 1:17PM]

The same thing will eventually happen to the cellular networks that happened to AT&T with the landlines, but it will take the courts to establish it. Good luck to Skype with their efforts.

[hugoliva @ Feb 22nd 2007 1:18PM]

I live in Guatemala and i have to tell you US citizens are getting screwed big time by cell providers. I pay the equivalent to US$50.00 a month for 60,000 seconds of monthly airtime (we get charged by the second, not by the minute) and all the incoming calls are free. The moment we get screwed is when it comes to internet usage, as we are charged over US$0.02 per kilobyte downloaded, and if you want unlimited access, you must pay US$50.00 for a crappy 128kbps.

[PEZ @ Feb 22nd 2007 1:55PM]

This comes at an interesting time when, Vonage is going to get porked by Verizon for violating some patents or something... last mile line of usage thing. I dont know the specifics.

In any event, the FCC should open up the cells, but, there needs to be a way of tracking the calls, I would guess. Also, maybe a deal where skype is only used in off-peak times.. whtever who knows!

[Emceay @ Feb 22nd 2007 2:38PM]

Nobody likes being price gouged alright? Don't you shop around and call 'bullshit' on overpriced hard drive storage? This is the same deal.. charging $10 for less than a megabyte is robbery, and just because it's capitalism doesn't make things any better. Your logic of 'just don't use a cell then' is moronic. If all contestants play by crooked rules, the nature of the game is crooked. You don't seem to see this. When Walmart destroys competition with bulk purchases and selling at a loss I'm sure you wring your hands with glee. Nobody forces you to get a cell, but they're damn convenient and the suppliers know this and charge addict level prices for the junk they're pushing.

[Disgruntled @ Feb 22nd 2007 2:46PM]

Convience has a price but trying to force a carrier to open their wireless service will only destroy the industry and the network and service will be diluted with $39.99 Speedy Reconnect mobile services and when there are network errors and you are unable to get a call our or recieve one, just remember...you asked for it.

[Disgruntled @ Feb 22nd 2007 3:36PM]

@Jesse S
You are a fucking tool, I work for AT&T in the Subsidy unlock department UNLOCKING PHONES FOR FREE!

Granted there are criteria you have to meet but the only time we ask for money is when you are past due, which is a requirement.

Go talk shit somewhere else and pull facts out of your ass.

[Jamar @ Feb 23rd 2007 11:31AM]

Not in China you can't. I've seen people do it, but Verizon phones don't take R-UIMs- the data has to be read off the card and manually inputted.

[Jesse S @ Feb 22nd 2007 3:04PM]

Yes...That's not locking. Sprint and Verizon don't allow foreign ESN's onto their network.

However, I can take a Verizon phone, sitting next to me, to Korea, and have it up on one of their networks, pretty fast. Or China. Or Taiwan. Or maybe Alltel here. (They used to allow foreign ESN's on their network. Don't know if they still do.)

So, in fact, you are the idiot. Not me.

However, Cingular and others lock their phones, so you have to pay for unlocking codes, or send your phone off to some shady website sometimes...

[John Bibbs @ Feb 22nd 2007 3:13PM]

As somebody who worked in the cellular industry for a long time, I can tell you for a fact that your CDMA phones do have subsidy locks on them. So not only can you not used a foreign ESN on a CDMA network (Alltel I know is an exception) but you still have to get the phone unlocked from the original cell phone provider. They have to provide the unlock code, unlike GSM where you just about anybody can provide the unlock code. Go Google "Unlock CDMA Phones" and click on any of the links that popup, the first link explains it quite well actually. Your out of your league on this topic.

[Jesse S @ Feb 22nd 2007 3:15PM]

I hate to tell you this...But...No...

I have, for a fact, sold both Sprint and Verizon phones to people in Taiwan and Korea...And they went to their providers, and hooked them up fine...

The only locks for CDMA phones are when they are reported stolen...

[Jesse S @ Feb 22nd 2007 3:38PM]

No need to insult me.

I'm just saying, I've never dealt with it.

And, look, AT&T...A...GSM CELLULAR COMPANY!

[Disgruntled @ Feb 22nd 2007 3:54PM]

Yes a GSM CELLULAR COMPANY! that you said:

"Cingular and others lock their phones, so you have to pay for unlocking codes, or send your phone off to some shady website sometimes..."

[Jesse S @ Feb 22nd 2007 3:57PM]

Note "SOMETIMES."

[theo @ Feb 22nd 2007 4:12PM]

@Aaron Wagner:
While it may have fallen off the bills in the last couple years, the last time I checked, you could still find a tone-dial fee on your phone bill if you looked. I thought it was idiocy, but it turns out you can save a few cents on your bill each month by having it turned off. I found this out at a second job where the owner was so cheap he did this.

Caller-Id will be the same way. It'll become a service that the phone companies assume you want, and you'll have to explicitly turn it off if you don't. They won't stop charging you for it until you tell them to turn it off, though.

[BD @ Feb 22nd 2007 4:59PM]

To the surprisingly large number of idiots arguing for the cell providers: Ya, I'm sure it costs BELL 30 cents for every minute I talk over my limit... In fact, my $60 CAD plan includes only 1100 minutes (1000 weekend/night), which is still pretty bad at more than 5 cents a minute.

[Frankenstein Black @ Feb 22nd 2007 4:36PM]

Soooo, can someone explain to me what Skype is whining about? I have an all you can eat Cingy (er at&t) data plan and an HTC 8525 wt Skype for PPC. I AM ON A SKYPE CALL RIGHT NOW on Cingy’s (er at&t - I’ll get it right one of these days ;^) fat 3G UMTS/HSDPA pipe!

I’m a happy customer (also got Skype-Out) SO WHY START BEEF WHEN THERE IS NONE? Ohhh I forgot, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!!!

[joefy @ Feb 22nd 2007 6:00PM]

we are talking about this at http://www.cellphoner.net!

[nikster @ Feb 22nd 2007 7:04PM]

If I could just walk to the corner store and get a new SIM card with 2 ct/minute calling to all other networks, $10/month for 100 hours of unlimited data or $20 all-unlimited internet... oh, wait, I can already do that. In Asia.

Shopping for a new phone #/carrier is as easy as buying a carton of milk. You even get to choose your number.

We pay full price for phones, but I like the transparency. You pay full price in the US too except the costs are hidden in rip-off plans and chain you to a provider for 2 years... nothing's for free.

What I don't understand is that there isn't even the option in the U.S. to do this. Customer choice? Not in the cell phone market.

[Miguel @ Feb 23rd 2007 3:17AM]

I'm all for unlocking cell phones and thus not getting chained to a network or provider, but why should Skype get to use the infrastructure of another company? I call bull shit. You ever get a "network busy" problem from your carrier. Now imagine adding a bunch of Skype users in the area sucking down your data spectrum to handle voice calls that they could be making on basic radio carrier waves. No thank you, Skype. You cannot have MY cake of data and voice coverage and eat it, too. Go find your own and sell it to your own customers.

[James @ Mar 12th 2007 9:58AM]

What SKYPE needs to do is sign a agreement with one of the national providers and use there towers, and charge customer per year for the service, u know. Like you pay one fee, to use the phone for the one full year and u go on from there. lets start off at that b4 they jump to trying to make providers open there towers like htta.

They will take the wireless industry by storm with this type of billing, yearly billing