51GB HD DVD disc gets official
By Paul Miller 
posted February 28th 2007 10:25PM
posted February 28th 2007 10:25PM
In a strange turn of events, Blu-ray discs are outselling HD DVDs, and now the HD DVD format has taken the lead in capacity -- who would've think it? Toshiba just announced that it has successfully created a triple-layer disc with 17GB per layer, which amounts to 51GB, a full GB more than those dual-layer Blu-ray discs can muster. We heard about the size gains at CES this year, but Toshiba is already in the process of submitting the new extension of the format to regulatory approval, however, the word on the street still amounts to a potential Q4 release, and it's still unclear at this time what kind of manufacturing costs or complications these new discs will incur. We'll say it again: the format war is far from over.
WHY BOTHER...the only reason i'm against HD-DVD is beacause its technically INFERIOR to the competition!! Where the hell are the HD-DVD RW drives...triple layer are we going to need another special drive for this??!!!....Toshiba should just end the war by dropping HD-DVD!!!Adding 51GB disc is just extending a hopeless war for Toshiba....
LOL Ivan's post makes me laugh. I don't support HD-DVD because it is technically inferior? God you are stupid. It's the same crap. You're just a sSony fanboy that bought a PS3 and needs something to make him feel better about a $600 game system that hasn't lived up to the hype....
The only discs I'm buying are Total HD. I "know" blu-ray has the lead now (thanks PS3) but with the chance of $300 HD DVD players this Christmas (thanks China) this could go either way. Why not play it safe with Total HD?
Say what you will, the format war doesn't even begin until wal-mart starts selling movies. The says so far aren't even a bit of what they'll be when wal-mart gets around to selling them. And at that point you'll see HD-DVD skyrocket compared to blu-ray because it's wal-mart customers that will be buying the stuff.
walmart has been skiddish about it, but they DO sell HD DVD and Blu-Ray titles as a corporate entity. it is, however, up to each electronics dept. and store manager to decide if their store should carry HD titles.
of the 3 walmarts closest to me on the MS coast, one only carries HD DVD titles, on carries both HD and BRD, and the other doesn't carry any. the reasoning is the location of each one and its respective market, from my understanding of the talks with the managers.
the one that only sells HD titles sees BRD titles as a waste because they only sell HD players (they count 360 drives but not PS3s because they can't sell PS3s and the 360 drive is dedicated to movie watching).
the one that sells both is in a more "upscale" town where people, on average, are more likely to be early adopters of a format.
the one that doesn't sell either has a very apathetic department manager that doesn't even know the difference between the two other than the colors of the boxes and has poor electronics sales in general due to its proximity to Gamestop, Circuit City, and Best Buy.
My local Wal-Mart has been selling Blu-Ray and HD DVD movies for some time now, but the only player they have sold is the RCA HD DVD player.
Yay for HD-DVD!
"and now the HD DVD format has taken the lead in capacity"
Oh yeah?
And what about this:
Panasonic says that its 100GB Blu-ray discs will last a century:
http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/19/panasonic-says-that-its-100gb-blu-ray-discs-will-last-a-century/
And this:
TDKs 200GB Blu-ray D survives wire wool!
http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=7612
I am sure that this thin will not be compatible with current player because of extended layers (17GB instead of 15GB and on top of that 3 layers instead 2) and will cost double!
And what about that you can overburn the 50GB Blu-ray to 53GB (2 layers -> we have seen it with 2 layer DVD) while you cant overburn a maxed 17GB layer (on top of that 3 of them) havent seen this yet.
You can do that with the current Blu-ray drives:
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=2615
while for hd dvd there are not drives...
This disc is science fiction! LOL
To sum up: THE WAR AIN'T OVER.
Yay! Yay! Yay!
This will do it...woohoo!
Not better pricing. Bigger disks...yeah, that's it!
In the meantime, Bluray is eating your lunch.
Seriously? The war seems more "over" every day...
Yet more FUD
The third layer was never intended for video playback, and there is no intention of making players capable of playing it.
If I were in the HD-DVD camp, I would be royally ticked at the fanbois who are advocating making all the HD-DVD players to date obsolete just to save their dying format, all for a whopping 1GB
Could BD release a three layer 75Gb disk?
Yes
Do they need to (and alienate their customers)?
Nope
Lets all keep this in perspective, these products are targeted at the computer storage market, NOT at the home video consumers
Someone jumped the gun with some speculation, see:
http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/03/01/toshiba/index.php
Im sure it will be submitted, it just hasen't been yet.
This will only make a difference if these are playable on existing players either standard or with a firmware upgrade. If you need a new player to play the new disks it's going to hurt HD-DVD more then help.
One reason I like Blu-ray is that the spec is inclusive of higher capacity disks then dual layer 50GB disks so when the new disks come out, you will be able to just put them in your player and press play (at least in theory).
Blah... blah... blah. Every time I read one of these high definition disc articles it always degenerates into pure speculation. Douche bag fanboys go home. Be happy with what you bought and shut up.
3-layer discs (of EITHER format) are NOT compatible with ANY current video players, nor are they being targetted for home video releases ANY time in the forseeable future. 2-layers is the maximum for home video discs.
3+ layer discs are strictly intended for computer storage.
In that regard, TDK has already shown 100GB and 200GB prototype Blu-ray discs.
Big Nasty
Ivan does have one VERY big point. Where are the HD-DVD burners?
As movie disks HD-DVD has inferior capicity but identical video quality.
As data disks HD-DVD is worthless. There is no home burner for people to use this new triple layer disk. There isn't sufficient market penetration for software makers to distribute code on HD-DVD.
There is no applicable use for 51gb HD-DVD disks. Bluray is already on third generation and faster PC burners, with an acceptable 2nd gen unit shipping now.
51 GB HD DVD does NOT get official
http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/03/01/toshiba/index.php
"A three-layer HD DVD disc with enough room for about 7 hours of high-definition video is still under development and hasnt been submitted for approval to the DVD Forum, the standards governing body, despite reports to the contrary, Toshiba said Thursday.
[...]
Were puzzled ourselves by where these reports came from, said Junko Furuta, a spokeswoman for the company in Tokyo. She said Toshiba hasnt made any further announcements about the disc since CES, and it wasnt submitted to any steering committees during this weeks DVD Forum meetings in Tokyo."
This story is FALSE! Toshiba announced today that they are confused as to how this rumor got started. Here's the site:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/03/01/HNtoshiba51gbhddvd_1.html
This story is FALSE! Tohshiba said they are confused as to how this rumor got started. Here is the site:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/07/03/01/HNtoshiba51gbhddvd_1.html
Ivan - Any inferiority regarding HD DVD versus Blu-ray isn't going to manifest itself in lesser Video or Audio quality. That's already been proven by stellar movies on both platforms.
Iceman II- The irony of your statment is incredulous. You claim the extra layer was never intended for video applications? Patently false. The 3rd layer is exactly the same format and track pitch of the other two meaning the player should only have to be able to "seek" down to another layer. The 3rd layer could be problematic if the reflectivity is low enough to cause issues. That's why it's being tested. Your comments are so far out in left field it's funny.
No current HD-DVD player can read the 3rd layer. Period.
You seriously think they are going to release 3-layer HD-DVD discs and leave early adopters out in the cold? No. The 3rd layer will not be used for studio movie releases. It's not even planned to be incorporated into the format until late 2007.
Besides, if what you say is true (it isn't) and the lower capacity of HD-DVD isn't going to impact audio/video quality, why would they bother making 3-layer movie discs?
Also, may I refer you to some of the Warner Bros. releases where they CLEARLY capped the bit-rate at HD-DVD levels (30 GB / 34 Mbps) even on the BD release? The Departed, for example, many people feel that the video quality was significantly impacted by this decision. Plus, the BD has uncompressed PCM sound - whereas the HD-DVD wouldn't have room for it - how is that not "affecting audio/video quality"? Oh right, you're full of shit. Gotcha.
Reading is fundamental. Note that I said "being tested" those with both halves of their brains engaged would realize that this means that compatability is being ascertained. If the test works and perhaps a firmware update can enable support for the 3rd layer then the discs will be ratified and added to the HD DVD specification. There's nothing about the extra layer that suddenly means it won't work as Ice mentioned.
You make 3 layer discs for the %5 of movies out there that go beyond the 4 hour mark. Think EE versions of Lord of the Rings or Gods and Generals. Think TV series like the Star Trek or Star Trek NG series.
Capping bitrates. Don't go trying to sound like you know what you're talking about. Compressionists add up all the extras whether they be interactivity, soundtracks, extra footage and then from the remaining storage they compress at the rate that maximizes this space left. You got it ass backwards in where you think they just go in with a target bitrate. Clearly the reviews show that The Departed looks great.
http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/departed.html Peter Bracke says "The Departed' easily ranks among best transfers I've seen on either format, hands down. " There goes your strawman argument up in flames. Lastly uncompressed PCM takes up more space than Dolby TrueHD. TrueHD is a lossless codec which means it's transparent to the source yet it takes up less space. There of course is a cost involved in licensing and not all Blu-ray players support TrueHD.
My advice to you is to go pick on someone who doesn't know what they're talking about and cannot blow up your silly little rebuttals. That's not me, you won't win a technical debate here the best you can hope for is a tie.
Oh boy. Speaking of "talking about things you know about".....
So you can use Google.. good for you. Have you actually SEEN the disc? Because I have, like personally, with my own eyes... The Departed looks "good", but not great. I've seen dozens of other Blu-ray discs that look better. Even ones using MPEG-2 (with much higher bit-rates of course). The bit-rate on Departed is capped at roughly 12-15 megabits, whereas many other BD titles are well over 20, with peaks into the 40s (impossible for the HD-DVD spec, but I guess you know that since you know so much about "techinical" stuff right? What a douchebag!)
Should I show you the dozens of Blu-ray users on AVS saying they are quite disappointed with the picture quality? Why bother right, you'll just stick your fingers in your ears and go "NANANANA I CAN'T HEARR YOUU" like all the other HD-DVD fanbois hanging on to the last thread of a dying format.
It's ok, we all make mistakes.