TiVo CEO promises lower-priced HD TiVo this year

Yeah, that Series3 HD recorder is great and all, but it's about time TiVo started talking about an HD DVR with even a semblance of competitive pricing -- $800 + service just isn't cutting it anymore, especially with Windows Vista's CableCARD support looking oh-so-promising. Luckily, TiVo CEO Tom Rogers has some encouraging words for us in his quarter results commentary, stating: "We will be highly focused this year on launching a lower-priced, mass appeal High Definition product." Sure, that doesn't quite explicitly guarantee an cheap HD TiVo this year, but we figure that in nine whole months they can probably (hopefully!) come up with something to relieve this situation.

[snowglyder @ Mar 8th 2007 10:34AM]

Shouldn't DVR's have to record in HD, now that the ball is rolling on standard HD broadcasts?

[Jason @ Mar 8th 2007 10:56AM]

Unfortunately the analog digital rollover has nothing to do with HD. It just means that regular TV will be broadcast digitally. Digital cable is all digital but not HD.

[Sam @ Mar 8th 2007 10:38AM]

Too late, I'm happy with my WMCE box + QAM from my HDHomeRun.

[Jeff @ Mar 8th 2007 10:40AM]

"Shouldn't DVR's have to record in HD, now that the ball is rolling on standard HD broadcasts?"

Think you're confusing HD with digital. Digital != HD; not necessarily anyway.

[snowglyder @ Mar 8th 2007 10:43AM]

Probably... thanks

[Ken @ Mar 8th 2007 11:17AM]

This is all great and everything but is Tivo Series 3 not going to be available for Directv? I am patiently waiting for this. They are advertising expanding their HD content to surpass everyone this year.

[Jeff @ Mar 8th 2007 11:27AM]

If the TiVo Series 3 cost about half of what it does right now, I'd probably have one already and never would've even discovered bittorrent. Now that I have, it'll be a little bit harder to get me back, but only a little. Make the machine pretty, reasonably priced, easy to use, (ya know, everything my Series 2 is) and I'll probably come back. But I'm not bringing flowers; it's your fault I left in the first place.

[trimbandit @ Mar 8th 2007 11:35AM]

Sure the TIVO interface is great, and we were thinking about upgrading when we bought our HDTV. But our cable company gave us a HD DVR for $6/mo with nothing to buy. The Tivo interface aint THAT great.

[Jason @ Mar 8th 2007 12:15PM]

As much as my cable DVR is a gigantic piece of crap I have to agree. I'd like a Tivo, but the subscription price is twice what I pay my cable company, and the box ain't free.

I think I'd spend $400 max on an HD Tivo, given the subscription fees.

[Anthony @ Mar 8th 2007 11:35AM]

I wish that DirecTV would go back to Tivo. Even @ 800 it would be worth it. My wife & I have probably spent 10 hrs on the phone w/ them (3 times having to hard reset everything- meaning all recordings lost). Their HD-20 is a POS in almost every regard.

[eric f. @ Mar 8th 2007 11:37AM]

I have to mention that the Series 3 does not cost $800. It's a little irresponsible to quote a SRP (who ever pays that?) when the normal price on Amazon is $659.99.

[Geoffrey Sperl @ Mar 8th 2007 11:36AM]

Well, I'm still wed to my Series2 on my SD television in the bedroom, and the Series3 just hasn't inspired me to buy it for my HDTV (still dealing with the Moto 6412 from Comcast... when is that TiVo software coming?!?). I've looked at XP MCE and Vista, but I don't want a computer in the bedroom or the media room and I'm not interested in shelling out cash for a media center and extenders. MythTV is out for those same reasons. I want simplicity in my DVR, not something I've got to hack and support every other day.

Now, if we're going to see non-CableCard HD recorders (maybe Series2 instead of Series3?) I would set down some cash for my HDTV. I would like to see VOD capabilities (though, I assume, with some voodoo and my Harmony might be able to get the Moto and a TiVo to play nicely enough... can't imagine that would be easy), but I would basically live with a Series2 with a 180 or 200GB drive, HD recording capability, HD menu graphics (come on - it should be possible), TOSLINK, component and/or HDMI I/O ports (and leave the composite and S-Video ports off - it'll save a little money in parts and labor).

The more I think about the Series3 the more I think of the Apple Lisa. Basically, the Series2 reminds me of the Apple II and, frankly, I don't think TiVo has shown us their "Macintosh" yet, which means the Series3 falls right in the same place as the Lisa: over-priced with not enough features to be overtaken by a new machine less than a year after its introduction.

[Aaron Brook @ Mar 8th 2007 11:39AM]

TIVO - are you listening ?

I will pay any price for the s3 Tivo. I don't care what it does or how much it costs. But I am waiting until someone cracks video extraction on it.

Once I can extract and save the video on my own fileserver for use on my other (often homebrew) devices then I will buy an s3 tivo. Until I can do that, it is a usseless box. Saving 250 GB of non-RAID-protected TV is for suckers - a total waste of time.

I think, deep down, you know this - I am hoping that your new content protection on the s3 is purposely weak because you know that as soon as the box is made "fully useful" by the community, a whole lot of sales will occur.

For now I wait ... HD s3 Tivo is useless. As soon as it becomes useful, I will buy one - and I don't care about the cost.

[crackpipe @ Mar 8th 2007 11:43AM]

I pay $8 a month in Brooklyn for my Time Warner Cable HD DVR. Eff Tivo

[mike @ Mar 8th 2007 9:11PM]

I agree Anthony, I havent upgraded to HDTV because of the lack of Mpeg-4 Directivo's out there. I refuse to go to cable( what the old joke, there is a reason your cable line is buried because cable it dead:). now that liberty media has bought out Murdoch, maybe they will ditch NDS and bring a S3 fully capable Directivo to market for the big 100 channel rollout. for those suffering with TW and other DVR's I feel bad for you. if the lawsuit in Neb is any indication plus friends here sobbing about their DVR's missing recordings and such, $800 is worth the interface and reliability of Tivo.

[elbrando @ Mar 8th 2007 12:34PM]

For all the "I only pay (lowest price) for my crappy product." :

Thanks for lowering the bar! The difference in price of the crappy/cheap cable company's products and TiVo is quite minimal. Probably less than most of us spend on coffee in ONE day. The quality of the two products couldn't be further apart. I've used TiVo, and paid them USD12.95/mo, for years now and I've use Cox's DVR. There is no comparison in quality.

If cost is the only consideration, then the quality products will die and we will all be left with crap. It's this kind of mentality that kills customer service and product innovation. But, it's a time honored tradition, especially here in the U.S., that the leader in innovation gets trampled by the inferior, cheaper products that are pale imitations.

[Davy @ Mar 8th 2007 12:45PM]

@elbrando, I agree that Tivo is a FAR superior product to anything else out there, but there is a limit to how much people will spend for a superior product. I have a Comcast DVR which is terribly buggy and prone to freeze, but at least it records HD for less than 10 bucks a month with no upfront hardware cost. Now I have almost an unhealthy love for my S2 box, but when I upgraded to HD I couldn't justify an upfront 800 dollars (or even 600 now) in addition to the additional 5 or 10 bucks a month that Tivo wants me to pay. As others have said, there is no arguing that Tivo is better, but not 800 dollars plus another ten bucks a month better, especially when it is missing video extraction as described by Aaron above.

[Hoof Hearted @ Mar 8th 2007 1:00PM]

So true! I have used my S2 Tivo for close to 5 years now and have been nothing but impressed. With regards to any MS box by the TV, I find that I am reaching the stage of my life where "I just want stuff work." I have other things in life I need to "babysit" and I don't want to have to maintain software patches or renew IP addresses when it can't connect. Thus far, Tivo is still low maintenance the way electronics should be. As far as upgrading to the S3, I still look at the cost-benefit ratio. The added benefit must equal (ideally surpass) the added cost. Do the math and the S3 comes up short.

[Aaron @ Mar 8th 2007 12:57PM]

I just don't understand everyone creaming themselves over TiVo. It's convenient I guess (I have the one that came with my DirecTV service two years ago), but so is, say, your microwave. Do we bitch about the difference between cheap and expensive microwaves? No.

That said, a cheap HD TiVo would be nice. The key word there being "cheap". Maybe I don't watch enough TV to care as much as everyone else, I don't know. And I have an Xbox 360, so for the one or two shows I do want to watch, I just download them in HD anyway for like $3.

...Now, I just hope TiVo fans aren't as retarded as the Apple ones, so I'll be spared a dozen angry replies...

[andy @ Mar 8th 2007 1:45PM]

@Aaron

If your microwave had days where it didn't heat food followed by days where it caught food on fire and there was no fix, yes, you would care about your cheap microwave. you would also go out and buy a more expensive one that worked properly.



I own a S3, but I write complaints CONSTANTLY about the lack of features compared to the S2. If they hope to sell any more of these, they need to get on the ball and dig up some personal dirt on the guys working at CableLabs. That's how you grease the wheels and get your stuff going. Either get in the business or quit fronting.

I want my tivo to play everything on my NAS array. EVERYTHING. WMV, MP3, WMA, H.264, AVI, .MOV, MPEG2&4..... EVERYTHING. And by the way, considering Netgear is NOW SELLING SUCH A DEVICE, there is no reason why TIVO can't offer these features.

Add the value (incorporate xbox media center so that I can get my xbox1 out of my den), add some innovation, and the BUSINESS WILL COME TO YOU. Stick it to existing customers and act smug, and you'll be in bankruptcy court before you know it.

[andy @ Mar 8th 2007 2:02PM]

@ Aaron

If your microwave didn't heat your food one day, set it on fire the next, and randomly locked the door shut forcing you to unplug it, wait 30 second, and reboot, I bet you'd be shopping for a better (thus more expensive) microwave.

[Stace @ Mar 8th 2007 1:10PM]

You DirecTV subscribers need to complain to DirecTV. Now that Murdoch isn't the owner of DirecTV anymore, the door is actually open to dump the awful NDS PVR and go with the TiVo again.

Put the pressure on.

I dumped DirecTV and switched to Comcast because I insist on a functional useful DVR, and that's what the Series III is.

[Aaron @ Mar 8th 2007 5:43PM]

"If your microwave didn't heat your food one day, set it on fire the next, and randomly locked the door shut forcing you to unplug it, wait 30 second, and reboot, I bet you'd be shopping for a better (thus more expensive) microwave."

Yeah, point taken, but what I'm saying is there's this weird obsession with TiVo that I don't get. Like I said, it's convenient, but it doesn't blow my mind. It's like... a better VCR. Anyone remember those? Yes! You have been able to record TV shows for several decades now! Now, I understand TiVo and a VCR are hardly comparable, but I just don't understand what makes people rant and rave about it.

[Mike Peluso @ Mar 8th 2007 3:05PM]

For me, i love my TiVo with the built in burner. I've realized that what I really use it for is as a single video source, so the perfect unit for me is the current S3 with a universal DVD player (HD-DVD, Blu-Ray, Standard DVD with up converting.. etc. )

[andy @ Mar 9th 2007 10:36AM]

@aaron

I see where you're coming from. With tivo's install base and possibilities though, if they could just make a couple of deals, it would be the end all be all of television and movie delivery. Think about it. Bittorrent client to get movies and TV and it records TV via cable as it is released live. It would eliminate the rest of the components in your den.

Which brings me to the next factor: the wife acceptance factor. I'm guessing you're in your early 20's and single; probably don't own your home yet. When you hit 30, have a busy career and start having kids; you'll want something that works all the time, every time. Tivo allows you to schedule your TV intake (i.e., favorite shows) around your life and your family, not schedule your life around your TV. This is huge when you only have discreet times to watch TV (like saturday when nothing is on).

And if your wife can't work it, it doesn't exist. That's why tivo is popular. It's easy to use for EVERYONE (high wife acceptance factor), it's sleek looking (wife acceptance factor), it does what it's supposed to do, and it allows you to schedule TV around your life.


It's similar to when the original Ipod and Itunes came on the scene vs all of the other hard to use piecemeal mp3 solutions that weren't fully developed. The difference is that TIVO allows more hacking for adding HDD space and transferring files to other formats (except for the S3 and cablelabs issues).

[Philip S @ Mar 8th 2007 5:59PM]

I've never used a Tivo, so I have had to deal with many issues from other DVR providers. I wanted the Series 3 but wasn't willing to drop $800 plus the monthly subscription fee to get one. So I built a PC that can use Vista's Media Center to record HDTV without ever paying a monthly fee. Once I get it to make recordings from my Cox DVR via Firewire, there will be no need at all for a Series 3. And Cox is supposed to offer Tivo software for their DVR one of these days.

[Aaron @ Mar 9th 2007 12:31PM]

You're right, I can definitely see the potential TiVo has, and I can also understand the wife acceptance thing. It's not a bad product to have at all, and the ease of use makes it viable for just about every home. What really mystifies me, though, is I hear all the excessive praise coming from exactly the people you're not describing: the younger ones. Again, I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have, but the bizarre enthusiasm doesn't make sense to me, considering that at the moment it's just a box that records TV shows. (Do newer versions do more than that? Mine is a couple years old.)

I guess I just don't put much value in TV. I hope it goes in the direction you describe, and becomes an all-in-one media center to replace a few of the other boxes around the television. I have to say that would interest me a lot more.

[Trent @ Mar 9th 2007 4:55PM]

Oh Tivo, how I would love to love you, but you make it so hard to do so while playing nice with the MPAA and Cablelabs. If only you had the balls to open up Tivo2Go on the S3 you would have my $$$$ in a heartbeat.

I submit that the money you would make on S3 sales with a functional Tivo2Go should be more than enough to pay the Media Mafia (MPAA and Cablelabs) when they eventually want their "pound of flesh".

Love to love you baby...

[Joe & Ammie Bradley @ Mar 9th 2007 6:53PM]

I don't think TiVo is all that great. All the DVRs out there that I've used (DirecTivo, Dish Network DVR, and now Comcast DVR) are pieces of crap compared to my very first DVR...DirecTV's UltimateTV. It was way ahead of its time and worked very well. The only reason I gave it up is because one of the two tuners (first DVR with that option I believe) failed when it was about 2 years old, and DirecTV had discontinued supporting it. So I was forced to go with the DirecTiVO. It wasn't bad, I did like the interface, but it was not as nice as the UltimateTV. I think the only reason UltimateTV failed is that it was very poorly marketed. They didn't educate the consumer enough and the retards at Best Buy told people they had to spend the extra $10 a month for internet (ala web tv) even if they didn't want it (that was completely untrue, but I had to argue with the store manager and get him to pull up the web site so I could prove it). Anyway, that DVR was on the market way before TiVo Series 1 became popular, and it had most of the features of Series 2.

My last service Dish Network, did have one nice feature that I wish others would pick up on. It had dual tuners and DUAL OUTPUTS. You could put the DVR in "DUAL" mode so that you could output to a second coax output to other tvs throughout your house and watch a separate program from what your main TV was watching. It could be live or recorded. To make this feature really function well, the DVR came with an RF remote that had virtually unlimited range and did not need line-of-sight with the DVR. My only complaint about that DVR was that the user interface wasn't that great.

Lastly, my current DVR, Comcast's HD DVR from Motorola is a complete POS. It is buggy (freezes and needs to be reset at least once a week), its hard drive is WAY too small (I don't dare to record in HD), and its user interface is archaic. The only reason I have it is because I've got too many trees to have Dish or DirecTV, and the Series 3 TiVo is WAY too expensive.

I wish these DVR manufacturers would get their act together.