Vista activation "more an irritation to legit users than an antipiracy measure"
By Conrad Quilty-Harper 
posted Mar 18th 2007 2:37PM
posted Mar 18th 2007 2:37PM
Those are the words of Brian Livingstone, a renowned expert on the inner working of Microsoft Windows: in a post on WindowsSecrets.com, he exposes a backdoor route around activation which effectively destroys activation as an antipiracy measure. That, in and of itself, isn't a particularly surprising development (we've already seen two exploits that skip or bypass activation); no, the real story is the fact that the exploit was created by Microsoft itself. The "SkipRearm" process involves some simple editing of Registry files that can "extend the activation deadline of Vista indefinitely." This backdoor around WGA was created to help corporations keep machines working whilst they work under the heavy burden of prepping systems for Vista activation. If they can't do it within Vista's 30 day grace period, they can postpone activation by 30 days up to three times using the "sysprep /generalize" command: SkipRearm can be executed indefinitely. Specifically, Microsoft documentation says "Microsoft recommends that you use the SkipRearm setting if you plan on running Sysprep multiple times on a computer." Now that Windows Activation could potentially help pirates as well as annoy legitimate Windows owners, it's hard to see how Microsoft will be able to continue to justify using this ineffective, draconian system.[Via ComputerWorld, thanks to everyone who sent this in]
"it's hard to see how Microsoft will be able to continue to justify using this ineffective, draconian system."
right on! the Mac OS hasn't required activation in over 5 years, and Linux...well, you know. Activation is intrusive, unnecessary, and should be abolished.
Amen!
Odd, I don't find Vista's activation to be either unusually severe or cruel (ie. Draconian). Actually, it was so quick I barely realized I had started it before it was finished.
I just don't see how this is a problem. What am I missing here? 50 other great shareware programs I use everyday require me to activate as well, all of which all work seamlessly. It takes less than 60 seconds to activate.
I have my own issues with Vista but compared to those Activation seems like a non-issue.
Activation for Microsoft is fairly quick and you do not need to give your name and information. Registering Windows you need to give your information, but you can skip the registration process.
I wonder if MS is thinking that this work is worth it?
I myself am planning to get Vista when the first service pack comes out, but if XP's support will last a bit longer, then I might stick with it until it's deemed "obsolete".
XP was obsoleted over 3 years ago--by Panther.
30 days is more than enough to download and install Ubuntu
Newsflash Chris - A panther is not an operating system!
If by "Obsolete" you mean, "Still used by the majority of consumers and businesses.", then I agree.
Neither is XP!
By obsolete, I was referring to technical obsolescence.
We used this method for all of our laptops at compusa. Until our in house rep found out and then got new licenses for all our systems. But I still use it cause ativating windows for older people is such a damn hassel. My grandparents just bought a new vista system and its bothered them so much its not funny. And that can fustrate users when all they want to do is check mail or go on the net.
But don't they have legit copies? If so, why not just go ahead an activate? The only place I see this being beneficial is to pirates.
Panther is an operating system, it is MacOS 10.3:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X#Mac_OS_X_10.3_.28Panther.29
How is activation a nuisance? For 99% of people all it means is click a button and boom it's done. That's much easier than going to the trouble of pirating a copy of an OS and then downloading a crack. If you don't feel like the people who programmed Vista should be paid, just use another OS. If you want Vista bad enough then just buy it like a regular human being and don't steal it like human scum.
I want to use Vista, but not enough to pay for it. However, I've gotten one of the cracks out there to work (for the mean time) so it's ok
I love that attitude "Everyone who pirates is scum" that's great, I mean I know where the attitude comes from, those smarmy guys who pirate everything Microsoft but can't refrain from slamming them, knowing all too well they can afford to buy the products they steal, right? Yeah, but keep in mind, before you whip out your virtua-tongue again and look like an idiot, not everyone can afford to buy those things that they steal.
As for this, I really don't care, my family got Vista with their computer, and I never intend to upgrade to it, at least not until I have to, though I'm quite pleased at the prospect of never seeing "NTLDR Is Missing" ever again.
7 of 7.....how is activation a nuisance??? i may not have vista, but ever since my main board blew out, now i have to call ms and tell them any time i want to reformat (xo pro) my computer. that includes calling, waiting on hold, dealing with the arrogant ass on the other end that i can't understand (i swear to got i want to fly to india and start bitch slapping people at the call centers), and explain why it is (4 times on the last call) why it is that i need to use the $200+ program i bought. maybe i'm mistaken, but didn't i pay for this program??? and now that i have heard so many wonderful things about vista, i think i will wait until we are closer to the next os to get vista. maybe the bugs will be fixed by then.
"not everyone can afford to buy those things that they steal."
Linux is free. FreeBSD is free. If you want an OS and can't afford a real one, there are thousands of Linux distros that will work relatively well after a couple months. There's nothing I can do in Vista that you can't sort of do after a bunch of tinkering with Linux. The people who pirate Vista or any other software don't do it because there aren't free alternatives, they do it because it's easy to do and they're human scum who don't feel like paying the people who spend a lions share of their lives developing software in the false hope that they'll be able to feed their families with the money they've made. Luckily the scum are in the minority so it's not like the programmers are hurting, but if this attitude is spread by websites like Engadget who apparently don't care about the programmers or janitors at Microsoft or any other company whose software is regularly stolen then this attitude will surely spread. These are the same kind of scum who don't understand that it's wrong to pay for one newspaper and then take the entire stack out. They are fundamentally lacking in empathy and intelligence.
If they have a problem with Microsoft, don't use their products. That's how the system works. I'm not a fan of capitalism at all, but at least take advantage of the fact that your choice has an impact on corporations.
Its nowhere near as simple as that. For alot of people its windows (of whatever flavour) or nothing. They use it at work, they use it at school, you buy a PC its included in the price. M$ has a virtual monopoly on home computers simply because people don't know any better. Its all very well for geeks like us to say "Oh if people didn't want to use Windows then there are plenty of other options out there" because we know about the options, and for some applications (ie games) there really are no other options. Remember that people will stick with what they know and resist trying anything new or different and you will see that M$'s grip on the home computer market is total.
Another couple of things to note is that to most average people Macs are too pricey and Linux not pricey enough (if its free there must be something wrong with it, right?)
But, why is activation an issue if you have a legitimate copy of the OS in the first place? Thats what I'm not getting. You say activating is a hassle for old people? ... If they have a legit copy, they click activate, and then the damned thing is activated, end story... how is that a hassle?
Here's a good example of why activation is such a pain: I went over to my mom's house because she said her PC won't auto update any longer. I checked, and behold, there was an update I needed to manually download from Microsoft. No biggie right? Wrong. Turns out it was a new validation scheme (why am I validating an already validated OEM PC?) that had to be run before automatic updates could continue. fine, I download it, which launches an executable to validate my license. OK, I reboot only to find that my validated copy of XP is no longer validated. It says I have a pirate version of the software.
So, I call MS and tell them this is an OEM pre-installed copy of the OS and they tell me to call Dell. I call Dell whom in turn tells me to call Microsoft. See why their draconian activation scheme affects those who are legal to begin with? I finally got someone from MS's "RU Legit" team to fix the snafu, but only after spending hours on the phone. turned out their own tool was invalidating valid copies of the OS, and too many blocks of licenses were flagged incorrectly. Way to go Microsoft!
Do I expect my mom, who's not technically savvy to call and know how to handle this stuff on her own? Understand why people do not like it when they see a dialog box pop up on their machine saying they are pirates?
@Killian:
I want to drive a Ferrari, but not enough to pay for it. However, I've stolen one from a Ferrari dealer to drive (for the mean time) so it's ok
@1
Mac OS doesn't NEED activation because the OS is stuck to the Apple computers only. Anyone who can even run Mac OS will already have an Apple computer, and thus have no need to pirate.
I wouldn't lose sleep over this. Engadget has just treated us to another gem from the literary and technological genius that is Conrad Quilty-Harper.
Not necessarily true. Updated OSs after system purchase cost money.
That's funny.. not only could you steal a copy of OS X and put it on a different machine, but you can install it on a regular PC, too. Old news.
Wait, so because they can't afford the stuff they're stealing...that somehow automatically makes it okay? Neat. I'll be sure to tell that to the judge when they pick me up for jacking someone's ThinkPad at the library tommorrow.
This so makes me want to run Vista.
Still waiting for a reason to, actually.
Actually, the SkipRearm trick doesn't work on every version - I have a legal copy of Vista Home Premium OEM and SkipRearm doesn't seem to work on it.
Also, if you dig a little deeper into the "syspreg /generalize" solution, you'll see that it's a pretty serious 'fix'. It's not actually intended to reset the activation clock - what it actually does is reset the entire install back to 'factory' state with the intent of creating an install image for other identical hardware sets, typically in a business with many identical computers.
Sysprep blows away your SID, for one thing. That's the unique ID that allows your system to be identified in Microsoft networks - and is how you get permission to join the network and get access to resources.
As for pirates - technically that term applies to people who copy and *sell* software illegally (why would a pirate steal something with no intention of profiting off it). The people who use illegal copies of software for private use aren't pirates.
That being said, they *are* stealing. I'm sorry - but that's what it is. Let's be honest about it. You can justify it any way you want - but that's what it is. You are using someone else's work without paying for it, and without their permission. That's the definition of the word 'theft'. What's even worse, you're complaining because they're trying to STOP you.
The 'Use Macs' argument is silly. You can't use MacOS without a Mac unless you crack it - which puts you right back in the 'thief' zone. Apple does charge for MacOS if it doesn't come with the computer - and they charge for the computer if it does - either way, you're paying for it - it's not free.
The argument that they don't copy protect it is kind of specious. Until MacOS X Intel, it used hardware protection in the form of an uncommonly used CPU. With MacOS X Intel, the OS relies on PKI in the form of a TPM chip. You can't duplicate the contents of this chip - so the only way to run MacOS X Intel on any other Intel system is to modify the OS with the express intent of violating the agreement with which it comes.
IE: Stealing it.
There's no difference.
So get off the moral high horse - it's not as high as you think.
Microsoft can't use the TPM trick because they don't control the hardware and can you imagine the screaming that would happen if they required it or worse - required some kind of PKI token such as a dongle?
Finally, as usual, we generalise from the exception to the norm. Activation is hardly 'draconian'. For the vast majority of customers it's completely transparent. The one case over which I would agree the activation system is badly handled is MrE's example which is a consequence of Microsoft's trying to offload the activation process to OEMs and to offer a way to eliminate the activation process for them.
Microsoft lets them buy their OSes at a reduced price by having them take up the cost of frontline support. That's usually clearly stated in the documentation and on the support pages of help in the OS - that you contact the hardware maker first.
For the record, this is hardly unusual - try getting customer service for the parts that come with your branded computer.
I'm not sure why you're arguing semantics, but you're wrong.
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/pirate
Main Entry: 1pi·rate
: one who commits or practices piracy
http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/piracy
Main Entry: pi·ra·cy
3 a : the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright b : the illicit accessing of broadcast signals
now why would the MSpyware want to phone home?? hmmm
"...not everyone can afford to buy those things that they steal."
That's... an odd sort of justification for stealing. Just because you can't afford something doesn't mean you're entitled to have it. Do you honestly believe that you are entitled to certain things regardless if you can afford it or not? So you're basically saying, "If I want it, I should be able to have it, by any means."
Hey, tell me where you and your family live, sounds like that's one place I can just walk in and take whatever I want, regardless if I have the money or the rights to do so.
For the record, I don't think all pirates are scum, I think they are usually misguided kids that want things and haven't really learned the value of working for them. In my own youth I used to pirate software all the time off of old pirate BBS systems.
Though, the difference it seems between the younger me and you is that even then I knew I was stealing as I downloaded Photoshop 3.0. I knew even at 12 that just because I couldn't afford to buy software didn't grant me the right to steal it. No one is entitled to own software or music, there is a no manifest destiny of operating systems.
Looks like I have multiple wonderfully off topic replies, God, oh well, looks like I need another banned email.
I can see I'm just going to have to be the bad guy by the "Low Ranked", that's alright, I know lots of rich or well-off people browse Engadget and have no grasp of what being lower class is like. I say I knew because I've run into this before, and I've gotten Low Ranked before.
tim: I'll do that, but see, the Corporation's decision to punish it's employees because it's not making the profit it wants to make due to "perceived" loss from people pirating it's expensive software, thus decreasing their pay, and even laying them off is not a direct action of the piracy. I didn't say it doesn't harm anyone, I tried to relay that it doesn't harm anyone directly with my example, and it does not, therefore walking up and beating someone for their possession and pirating software are not identical, and comparing them so directly is disgusting and arrogant.
O2: "If you want to use a software/OS without paying for it, that's your problem. " See, and there it is, Want, as if there was an easier choice yet we chose that one and thus it's our "problem". For your information though it's a copyright infringement, if you want to go "definitions" on me, well I need only direct you to the third page.
Shawn: You're wrong a few minor points, namely theft, but yes, that makes sense, you're wrong about me though in one regard, I'm not some child stealing because they don't know any better. Let me lay this out, a person is poor, their family is poor, very poor, this person is talented in some regard, they steal software they need to use this talent, they make money, they become wealthy. Now that's an extreme example, but that's the best I can do to these jerks citing "So I can just walk up and steal stuff and it's okay", it's not all smarmy people pirating software. Sorry to be playing Devil's Advocate here, but it is, in some regard, okay, to pirate, that's not to say stealing is Good, it isn't, but the end result is not always evil, or for evil purposes. Though courts to a degree, and in the eyes of many people here, they are one and the same, I strongly disagree.
Vista like Microsoft is a "irritation".
I've been a Windows user from 1995, but I have decieded to dump Windows and Vista and go the Mac route, since Vista is going if it is'nt already there, another ME.
With a MacBook you can have you cake and eat it to, since you can run XP as well Mac software on it.
Have you actually used Vista? I'm using it right now, and it's nothing like ME.
You know exactly what was meant, and granted stealing is stealing, walking up and taking a peer's property from them, possibly through direct violence, is not the same as downloading a file on the internet owned by a corporation, it's just arrogant and self righteous to even call the two one and the same.
Is a corporation not made up of people? And the products sold by the corporation generate money to pay those people? You need to think through your logic. And while you are at it, read up on "moral relativism".
a simple defintion of stealing is "take without the owner's consent". Whether the thing you are stealing is an object or intellectual property, stealing is stealing. If you want to use a software/OS without paying for it, that's your problem. But don't try to modify a definition just to avoid guilt.
I see a computer that I like. I don't have the money to go to a store to pay for it. I go ahead and take the computer next time anyways.
I see a music file online. I don't have the money to go to a store to pay for it. I go ahead and copy a file next time anyways.
You want to nitpick and say, "Oh, because I *copied* a *digital file*, it's not such a big deal." But it's the same: you didn't feel like paying for it; you shouldn't have a right to it.
You know what I prirated XP but I want giddy about Vista and was going to fork down the bucks for it but you know what after all this shait I dont want it
"You are using someone else's work without paying for it, and without their permission. That's the definition of the word 'theft'."
Right, because theft has ALWAYS been defined as "using someone else's work. Except it hasn't. Stealing is taking something that isn't yours where the other person is not going to have it anymore. IE stealing a disc. This isn't the same.
What about IP that doesn't belong to you? Such as articles or books?
Isn't that stealing others words? I mean, it's ok since they still have them, so I can feel free to reprint top selling books and sell them knowing I'm in the clear, is that right?
What about photographs? No need to ask to reprint those, because they still have the original, eh?
How about a logo? Can I use the Microsoft logo as well? I mean, it's not like I'm taking it away from them, I would be using it along with them.
Movies, Music, Software, Books, (digital) Art, etc. All those can now be copied exactly without harm to the original, but does that mean it's ok? Of course not. The cost isn't in the medium it's published in, it's in the time and money spent creating it. Do you really think books use $20 worth of paper to print? No, but time was spent creating those stories and people should be paid for the enjoyment you recieve out of it. This is new, exact copies weren't really possible before (with the exception of books) and companies are having to come up with ways to protect their property from theives. I mean let's be honest, when no ones looking, people, in large, do not always do teh right thing.
It's almost becoming an honor system, and we know how that turns out..
Can someone please give this author with an already known bias against anything MS some news about something from Apple so he has something positive to say for once?
Well in that case, Panther and XP were obsoleted by Linux :-)
It isn't like registering windows is even as complicated as registering to post here at engadget. I mean, put in the code, press register, and quit bitching.
obviously i meant xP pro, not xO pro.
As long as you wait 30 days between activations you can use one copy as many times as you want.
Surprised nobody has mentioned this.
SO since they give you a 30 days trial ACTIVATION MEANS NOTHING and never did... The only people who care are bored net-nerds who just have to complain about something... zzzzzzzzz
I wouldn't read too much into this article, just follow the source. The author is the same one who wrote the terribly biased article about Microsoft the other week...
Here it is: http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/10/vista-activation-crack-2-auto-renews-the-30-day-grace-period/#comments
Now, I use OSX on a daily basis, it's a personal choice and, since I feel it's more user friendly, I prefer it over xp, though they are both fine operating systems.. But I absolutely hate people like the author who write intentionally derogatory articles, without being clear on his stance beforehand, in order to sway opinion in the favor of their choosing instead of letting the reader come to his own conclusion. He's hoarding sheep to bring in more comments.
If you're going to insert opinion, state it upfront. Though isolating a large percentage of your readers who use a microsoft OS just because you have some weird hate against the company is just unprofessional. Any reasonable person could see this.
Livingston, not Livingstone.
I'm waiting for a catchphrase like the superb "welcome to the social" for Zune, for Vista. Otherwise, I don't know why I would want to use it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Windows_Vista
Everyone knows catchphrases sell sell sell.
theft,
–noun 1. the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
"personal goods or property..." Copyrights are neither, they are ... surprise.... "rights".
cop·y·right
–noun 1. the exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 50 years after his or her death.
"the exclusive right..."
Copyright infringement is a violation of another entity's rights, not an act of theft, or "stealing".
If you'd like to debate the definitions of these words you can certainly take it up with Merriam-Webster et,al... but when someone says "copyright is not theft" and you accuse them of changing the meaning of the words - well you really look like an uneducated idiot don't you?
...my solution...don't use mac or windows...
Why is activation an issue?
Because you are guilty until proven innocent. Similar mindset with DUI roadblocks. Prove you are not doing something wrong before you continue. This is not the American way.
You know, a lot of people seem to be forgeting that it's not the pirates MS is trying to "stop" but rather the casual copying of Joe Schmo to his neighbor. And it that sense it works just fine for MS because neither Joe Schmo nor his neighbor know how to circumvent the activation process. If MS stops a few real pirates too, it's only a plus.
I've never seen the problem with activation.
It's intention was to discourage REGULAR EVERYDAY PEOPLE from "borrowing" a CD and using it on multiple PCs - it works for that.
It's not to stop hardcore pirates and crackers.
It was a tool to technically enforce a term of the licence.
Windows Validation on the other hand is definitely a tool to reduce the usefulness of "cracked" copies.
I had to activate Windows XP earlier today (it was an install in a virtual machine). It took all of 20 seconds, I thought something had gone wrong considering how quick it was - and that was under virtualisation.
this is a ridiculously article and titled misleadingly. If you own 'legit' Vista then there is NO hassle in activation. After I installed mine it activated itself. I did not have to do anything. If you are an IT dude installing vista, you have the friggin key with you when you are installing it, type it in! Where is the hassle? i don't see no steenkin hassle
bad bad BAD engadget bad mojo
I wonder which bandwagon this article came from...
I don't know about versions of Mac OS prior to 7.6.1 but that is way more than just five years without needing to bother with activation codes. In fact it is only recently with applications like Aperture, iWork, and the latest versions of Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro that any Apple applications have needed activation codes in the 10+ years that I have been using the platform.
People still pirate Mac OS and Mac software though but I think Apple would rather treat its honest customers right instead of trying to punish the pirates. Thing that Microsoft, the RIAA, the MPAA, and many others need to realize is that pirates are not customers. One pirated product does not always equal one missed sale especially when it comes to music and movies but also when it comes to questionable upgrades to the OS or productivity software. People will often take a free copy of something that they would never be willing to pay for. The lesson being to treat your customers right and give them a real reason to invest in your products.
Hmm.. I have to say, though I do see your point you are trying to get across, you do a terrible job of conveying it. I mean, initially your post seems to say "If you can't afford it, steal it." And now, this post ends with "The end justifies the means." As those are clearly wrong arguments to many, the somewhat grey area point you were trying to make gets lost.
Now, when it comes to truly poor people, there is an argument that having access to software for free would assist that person to better himself and end up paying for a new version of the software once he's able to afford it. Now, this is very grey, because, while it's illegal, one could say the losses wouldn't be realised and that, in the longrun, it contributes to the use of the given software as a standard. But, for many costly programs, there are free alternatives available (openoffice?) which can be used without breaking any laws. Also, if you were to attend a school, many of the programs related to their classes are given to the students at extremely reduced prices for thier education.
I think the correct argument would really be that, although pirating programs may have a net positive effect, it should really be up to the owner of the IP to decide whether or not he wants to allow it. If you truly are unable to afford certain programs, I suggest writing the developers with your story and a request to temporarily use their IP at no cost. You would be surprised how often you hear back.
As for other forms of piracy, such as music, movies, games, which are purely entertainment, there is no justification for this theft. Buy the movie, if you can't afford it, save up for it like normal people. You'll appreciate it more as well.
Thanks for, I don't, agreeing with me in a strange way, many people here has no idea what that's like, and thus refuse to see it as anything but wrong and terrible, thus I'm unsure what to make of everyone attacking people who pirate when they themselves have never been in a position where they need to pirate. When they "want" something, they just buy it, and they can't feel empathy for people in a situation which escapes them. As for, free alternatives, Gosh, not as often as I'd like but they do exist, you don't even need Open Office, Word/notepad would do you fine, but that leads into ignorance and I'm not fighting for that(might want to take up that one with bluemonq)
Just for fun, I thought I would add that engadget's comment activation is more an irritation to legit users than an antispam measure.
Seeing as I continue to see WoW gold spam comments, it's hard to see how Engadget will be able to continue to justify using this ineffective, draconian system.
Hassle?
all i had to do was burn vista to a dvd. (after torrenting for a day)
then get the new OEM activation crack. (torrented too)
click install.
reboot.
and BAM i got vista activated!
Poverty does not justify wrongdoing. Period. Using the software without paying for it is theft. Period. There is no such thing as indirect theft. You are, without a doubt, stealing from the company. The moral implications of that are between you and your conscience, but don't try to use euphemisms and fool yourself about what you're actually doing. Yes, the software is expensive - but its vendor has the right to price however it pleases. Its placement out of your price range does not justify you in attempting to take it illegally.
@walk2k:
You are quite mistaken. You state in your message that theft is the removal of property. Please check the entry for "property" from your same source, Merriam-Webster. Definition 2b reads "the exclusive right to possess, enjoy, and dispose of a thing." 2c states "something to which a person or business has a legal title." Also, read the definition for "intellectual property." Merriam-Webster clearly defines intellectual property to be a form of property (and why this should confuse anyone is beyond me), thereby implying that the taking of intellectual property without permission would be considered theft just as stealing a physical object would be.
Again, if you have no problems with your own conscience, good for you. But don't try to fool yourselves into thinking it's not theft.
Well you're just a jerk, I'm not replying to you anymore, I think you've made it very clear that you see people who steal as impulsive and selfish, and they are always fully capable of buying the things they steal with your broken record of a comment, "feel" like paying for it, again as though they have some easy choice of paying for it.
You know what, go back to your money and roll in it.
actually, technically i think that pirating software is more "freeriding" than stealing. still unjustified, obviously, but by copying the software you're not robbing someone else of their opportunity to use it, like you would be if you stole something physical. you're just duplicating it. yes, it's still wrong because those who made the software are entitled to your money if you use their products.
and the whole poor argument: it IS unfair that those who can afford it get more music and more software and more stuff, don't delude yourselves that just cos you have more money you are more entitled to that music and software, but life is unfair.
i dunno why i'm even saying this, people are just gonna get pissed...
To other human beings who aren't always fortunate enough to be ABLE to buy the things they want:
human scum
scum
lacking in empathy
Wow, practice what you preach maybe?
After reading over my initial reply to you, my editing made it somewhat more harsh than I had initially planned it. It was supposed to come across more as a give and take. I just thought I would clear that up, because you did have a valid point. I was merely trying to expand upon it while giving arguments against it. In the end, it ended up sounding somewhat mean, I suppose.
Few situations are white and black, there's usually a grey area where things may be wrong or right depending on your perspective. Those who disagree with that are merely being silly.
I use this rearm trick...so you probably think i'm a pirate,.....right.......WRONG!
I paid cash money for Vista Home Premium Full, like $230 for it. But I have 2 computers, so I have to use the rearm trick on my secondary one because I'm not buying vista again, and shouldn't have to. Someone who owns something has the right to copy it for themselves...not to give to someone else, or to sell, but to only use for themselves...which is what I'm doing.
I will not in a million years buy one OS twice.
and now, thanks to this little trick, I have many more months of vista use on my secondary pc...in which I assume before that time runs out I will have found a permanent solution in its place.
I'm the traditional "broke college student". I probably have less money than you do. I work two part-time jobs while taking a full load of classes. When I decide to spend my meager, hard-earned salaries, you can bet that I've given a lot of thought into the purchase.
I love music of all kinds, classical, jazz, indie. Would I love to be able to buy new CDs every week? You betcha. But I know I can't afford to do so - hell, buying a new CD each month is a stretch sometimes. Do I think CDs are way too expensive? Yes. Do I then think I have the right to download it off of DC++/BitTorrent/(some other P2P service? No, I don't.
Saying that people who steal stuff can afford to pay for it - that's silly. If they had the money, they probably *would* pay for it. And while I empathize with those who can't afford the latest and greatest - believe me, my bank account would attest to that - as someone who doesn't download music, I really don't understand why people feel entitled to stuff that they can't pay for. I just don't feel that way - but you might think I'm strange. We'll have to agree to disagree then.
It's f____ ridiculous. The only people it affects are the legitimate users. The hacks continue, and the honest users get put through hell. Nice way to run a company eh?
How would MS like it if every time they got in to start their new car they had to phone in to turn on the ignition? Hell it might not be your car right?
The government needs to come down on them hard. And I mean as in break up the company and send it to pieces hard. They worked years to have people over a barrel and force their system as 'the' system to use, and now this? It's a tyrannical monopoly wielding their power because no one can stop them. Oh and where was the part about how this system was going to save us money later in years to come? You mean save us money like Vista being $200-400??? How long is this pricing and this bully behavior on customers going to go on before the Federal government wakes up and does something? Oh wait, guess these are the same feds who couldn't watch a weather report for Louisiana...
MS should be paying us to deal with this cr**. I'm sick and tired making a corporation of millionaires and billionares and being treated like I'm the crook, with nothing better to do but rebuy their software or call them up on MY TIME. MS are the damn criminals, we just haven't seen it yet.
my windows vista from Campus Agreement can't get activated. :( It said that the key has been used too many times, when basically there are LOTS of people here using same key (that is, from Campus Agreement - and we only get one key for everyone).
It should be noted that if you bypass Activation in this way, you will not be able to receive any Microsoft Genuine Advantage software or updates. Genuine Advantage requires you to activate your installation.
That is all.
Oh my, I don't even make enough to pay insurance on a vehicle and well, it gets worse from there, but I'm not going to argue that point, winning that leads to a depressing realization.
I sympathize, took me a good four months to pull together the money to buy Half-Life 2 when it came out, even then I needed Birthday money to pull it off, I do think it's silly, whenever I've had money to buy something I really desire, I do, I don't go and pirate it off the internet when I can purchase it.
As for feeling entitled, that's a bit too deep for a comments section, why people want things they know they can't have, that's just humanity. I guess for most people, having something they normally could not have in their current circumstance(More music, applications, etc) is worth the risk, and can be justified in their minds as not stealing. I suppose it all comes down to wanting something bad enough to justify any means of having it, desiring that specific song, that specific game, that application, and submitting to possibly never having it, just doesn't cut it for some, and they're willing to take it in order to have it.
I think some of you that believe that the validation process is simple and non-threatening are missing a big point of contention that a lot of the reat of us are forwarding. Its not the initial validation that is a bugger, but rather the problems one runs into post initial validation.
For instance, I usually upgrade a component (motherboard) about once per year. I continue to use the other components. The hassle comes when I have to re-activate by telephone because the new hardware is dinged as 'foreign computer so its gotta be pirated' conclusion.
What Microsoft needs to do is offer a whole-house licensing plan that covers the entire home. For instance, if I've got three computers at home and the whole-house license reports IP from ISP for MAC then its accepted transparently, meaning the end user isn't hassled. Period.
Unfortunately, Microsft is willing to annoy legitimate customers and not properly address the bulk of their lost revenue because they cannot control what occurs outside the USA. I am not against paying for Vista (haven't got it yet), but I have got a major problem with being hassled for upgrading a PC, and then having to multiply this three fold.
And someone already illustrated an exact condition where less tech-savvy people are going to be exponentially bothered needlessly by false positives that will continue to be a more global problem. And this says nothing about privacy issues.
Don't worry about it, my reply had a few mistakes as I had just woken up, and I got the gist of what you were trying to relay. I agree though, people, like that Jerk blue, refuse to see any grey area, and that's just silly.
You know what?
I'm a pirate.
You know why?
I had a legitimate, full retail copy of XP Home that I installed for a fourth time. I called in for the activation, no problem.
Then WGA came about. And said my system was pirated, even though it wasn't.
So here are my options...
1) I can waste hours and hours dealing with MS tech support, running different bits of software, possibly trying to find a receipt from a few years ago, then repeat every time I have to update something or they change the validation tool. For a piece of software I paid a few hundred dollars for.
2) Pirate
Plus I have gotten a lot of people's old boxes for parts that had OEM XP licenses installed on them. So I figure I've gotten about 10 OEM licenses from other people, one full retail license, and the OEM license on my laptop. 12 licenses for 3 computers should be enough, right?
Intellectual property is a farce. If you are going to invest time into something which can be so easily reproduced, you have no right to complain when it happens. Record labels, software companies, and all other digital media rights holders are grossly overcompensated for thier "product". If I can take a Windows OS that cost $8,000,000,000 to develop and copy it for $0.12, how much is it actually worth?
The premise of patents and copyright claims is beginning to fail as technology progresses. Admittedly, I'm a proponent of open-source software as well as the horizon of open-source manufacturing. It is getting more obvious that IP is unsustainable. It may look socialistic, but the foundations of capitalism suggest that if supply can be infinitely increased, then the value of a resource nears nothing.
Mac OSx86- the Mac experience on a PC. If you like to tinker, it's far more fun to use than Windows. I use it because I need a laptop tougher than a Powerbook/Macbook Pro but I don't feel like giving up MacOS.
I agree with most of what Revrant2394 has said.
Thing is, most people are brainwashed to believe that if something is 'illegal' then it wrong in a moral sense. Actually in many cases it is a complete dichotomy. Mankind makes laws, and often it is not even a democratically created law (another example of brainwashing - just because someone on the TV tells you that you are living in a democracy does not make it so). 'Stealing' a computer and 'stealing' software online is not the same thing. Even a fool could tell you there is a difference in harm. A judge in court would have to view it as the same thing, because he is bound by legislation. But that does not mean we should stop using our heads and common sense.
i just don't get why pirates need to morally justify themselves.
I
don't copy music, movies or programs because i think it's my right to
do that. I only do it because i don't have enough money, and because i
don't get caught. End of story.
And frankly, nobody have ever lost any money because of it. If the option to pirate/steal/copy wasn't there, i just wouldn't have the money to buy it anyway. "Don't you think about the hard working people??". Sometimes yes, but mostly i don't
really care. Feel free to call me scum.
I see stealing of intellectual property more like cheating on a test by looking at another guys answers. It's not good (in the long term), it's not right, he doesn't
lose, i don't lose. And if everybody else does it too, he may lose by
comparison, but i don't care enough.
Note that i don't encourage anyone to take anyones elses property, i just dont get why pirates need to justify what they are doing by bullshitting everyone else.
Just accept what you are, don't get caught and if you do, face the consequences of being a thieve.
I totally agree that activation is a problem, especially on Vista - I got a copy of Vista right when it came out (actually the day before), and loaded it that night. Since there were no Vista drivers for my RAID card, I had to install it on a standaloen drive connected to my mobo. A week or so later, drivers were released for my RAID card so I reinstalled Vista on that, and had to call in to activate.
I've uninstalled and reinstalled XP more times than I can count without having to activate it again. I guess Vista went & got much pickier.
pirating a copy of windows is not stealing. stealing is taking something away from someone else. when you pirate windows, you make an extra copy of something that already exists thus leaving the original copy intact. pick another term, but 'theft' is hardly the case.
Am i missing something here? I just activate Vista once and since then never have any problem. I can download updates and enhancements MS sent me through Windows Update. Its been about 3 months since my first activation. I did upgrade my RAM once in the second month but it never tell me to activate again.
About method of activation, i think that is the fully rights of MS. Its their property, its their product we are using. There should be none of the pirated-copy user should complain about activation.
I disagree that pirated-copy user have the right to use because of their condition or their need. Piracy is a crime and there should be no reason to justifying it. Activation is one of MS way to protect their product and i think we should honour that.
Here's a way to think about stealing digital media: when you illegally copy something you are not giving someone money that is rightfully theirs, thus depriving them of property without due process of law. What if you copied one of my $20 programs without paying me and because of that I fell short on my rent? You just deprived me of property and maybe even my liberty.
Well then, all that was interesting and generally off topic...
At this point, all this activation thing is complete nonsense. This basically amounts to legitimate users being put through strip searches only to be put on the 'no-fly' list because they were found to be over the carry-on limit because they brought their wallet with them. Basically, hope nothing changes on your computer between your re-installs, cause Microsoft is going to put you through hell and back to get your OS to work again.
My thoughts on piracy... how many of you actually 'own' a copy of Windows for each computer you own? I personally don't see myself spending $200+ dollars per computer just to 'upgrade' it from XP to Vista. Do you? I personally like legitimately owning my software as much as the next person, but there's no way I'm going to go out and buy three copies of a Windows OS. (And no, I do not consider OpenOffice a legitimate replacement for MSOffice, it almost ruined me once, and I'm not giving it another shot at ruining me again, fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me.)
I've read through most of comments and feel that most of the complaints are valid.
If you have worked on computers for a long time you may already see that the OS is just a tool. Their are "proprietary" (MS) and "open source" (Linux) operating systems. The open source operating systems have been reviewed and critiqued by thousands of programmers in many countries. They are intrinsically secure.
Have you ever changed or re-installed an OS yourself? What do you REALLY need to do on a computer?
Who in your family needs a computer? How important is 100% reliability?
How important is 0.00% concern about viruses, Trojans, worms, spyware, ad-ware, malware, key-loggers, firewall maintenance, Anti-virus updates, critical updates, patches, zero-day exploits, DRM, WGA, etc.
Would you like to use your computer for one solid year with none of the above problems?
Would you like your only maintenance concern to be operating the on/off switch?
It sounds almost impossible doesn't it?
If you have kids in school, you want the best for them. They don't need to be interrupted with garbage.
They need to access the Internet, download files, play games, create "Word", "Excel" "PDF" and "PowerPoint" FORMATTED documents for school projects.
They need to reliably print documents, send/receive emails and possibly instant message their friends.
You probably need to use all of the above plus securely order items online, securely use online banking, apply using online forms, play music, and burn CD's and DVD's.
I stopped using Microsoft and began using Linux (Freespire). It installs in 20 minutes and you just update the Firefox Browser, the Adobe Acrobat Reader and the OpenOffice.org programs to the latest version using CNR (click and run), which allows access to thousands of free programs. You can download the Linux ISO file for free and create your own CD. (If you do it in Windows, burn4free is a freeware program and has an ISO burning function). Otherwise, you can purchase a CD for 5 to 10 bucks to cover the burning and postage.
If you sign up for GMail, you can store approx. 50,000 emails without deleting any of them. (My Gmail account has over 5,000 emails and I'm only using 10%).
OpenOffice opens, creates and edits files formatted in .doc, .xls, mdb, ppt and other formats. Everything described in this article is "open source" and available without cost. You sign up for a free CNR account to access and install the thousands of programs and program updates available.
Each member of my family has a separate login and we've been using it for 6 months. There have been no virus attacks or other interruptions or inconveniences (and no maintenance). I heartily recommend this Linux distribution for general use. This works especially well for people accustomed to Windows. The free copying and distribution of "open source" software such as Linux Freespire, OpenOffice, and Firefox is encouraged and completely legal. You just don't know how much inconvenience and garbage you have been going through until you get away from it for a while.
Unfortunately when you purchase Windows, you don't "own" it. It's proprietary and you are given the "right" of installing it and using it in a prescribed manner. There is a great difference between XP and Vista licensing. You can't indefinitely keep installing and activating the same "legal" copy of Vista on different computers. Also, certain combinations of hardware changes will be interpreted as a different computer and Windows will stop working. You may need to Re-Activate, but you can only do that a certain number of times. Vista has very different, unique and restrictive licensing. It's a lot like photography and music licensing.