Vista activation "more an irritation to legit users than an antipiracy measure"

Those are the words of Brian Livingstone, a renowned expert on the inner working of Microsoft Windows: in a post on WindowsSecrets.com, he exposes a backdoor route around activation which effectively destroys activation as an antipiracy measure. That, in and of itself, isn't a particularly surprising development (we've already seen two exploits that skip or bypass activation); no, the real story is the fact that the exploit was created by Microsoft itself. The "SkipRearm" process involves some simple editing of Registry files that can "extend the activation deadline of Vista indefinitely." This backdoor around WGA was created to help corporations keep machines working whilst they work under the heavy burden of prepping systems for Vista activation. If they can't do it within Vista's 30 day grace period, they can postpone activation by 30 days up to three times using the "sysprep /generalize" command: SkipRearm can be executed indefinitely. Specifically, Microsoft documentation says "Microsoft recommends that you use the SkipRearm setting if you plan on running Sysprep multiple times on a computer." Now that Windows Activation could potentially help pirates as well as annoy legitimate Windows owners, it's hard to see how Microsoft will be able to continue to justify using this ineffective, draconian system.

[Via ComputerWorld, thanks to everyone who sent this in]

[edmund @ Mar 18th 2007 3:01PM]

"it's hard to see how Microsoft will be able to continue to justify using this ineffective, draconian system."

right on! the Mac OS hasn't required activation in over 5 years, and Linux...well, you know. Activation is intrusive, unnecessary, and should be abolished.

Amen!

[Shawn O @ Mar 18th 2007 4:42PM]

Odd, I don't find Vista's activation to be either unusually severe or cruel (ie. Draconian). Actually, it was so quick I barely realized I had started it before it was finished.

I just don't see how this is a problem. What am I missing here? 50 other great shareware programs I use everyday require me to activate as well, all of which all work seamlessly. It takes less than 60 seconds to activate.

I have my own issues with Vista but compared to those Activation seems like a non-issue.

[Long @ Mar 19th 2007 4:42PM]

Activation for Microsoft is fairly quick and you do not need to give your name and information. Registering Windows you need to give your information, but you can skip the registration process.

[adrian @ Mar 18th 2007 3:09PM]

I wonder if MS is thinking that this work is worth it?

I myself am planning to get Vista when the first service pack comes out, but if XP's support will last a bit longer, then I might stick with it until it's deemed "obsolete".

[Chris @ Mar 18th 2007 3:23PM]

XP was obsoleted over 3 years ago--by Panther.

[MarkZ @ Mar 18th 2007 3:39PM]

Newsflash Chris - A panther is not an operating system!

[TheCount @ Mar 18th 2007 5:36PM]

If by "Obsolete" you mean, "Still used by the majority of consumers and businesses.", then I agree.

[Chris @ Mar 18th 2007 5:21PM]

Neither is XP!

[Chris @ Mar 18th 2007 6:06PM]

By obsolete, I was referring to technical obsolescence.

[G @ Mar 18th 2007 3:37PM]

We used this method for all of our laptops at compusa. Until our in house rep found out and then got new licenses for all our systems. But I still use it cause ativating windows for older people is such a damn hassel. My grandparents just bought a new vista system and its bothered them so much its not funny. And that can fustrate users when all they want to do is check mail or go on the net.

[akijikan @ Mar 18th 2007 4:02PM]

But don't they have legit copies? If so, why not just go ahead an activate? The only place I see this being beneficial is to pirates.

[zoara @ Mar 18th 2007 5:32PM]

Panther is an operating system, it is MacOS 10.3:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X#Mac_OS_X_10.3_.28Panther.29

[7of7 @ Mar 18th 2007 3:51PM]

How is activation a nuisance? For 99% of people all it means is click a button and boom it's done. That's much easier than going to the trouble of pirating a copy of an OS and then downloading a crack. If you don't feel like the people who programmed Vista should be paid, just use another OS. If you want Vista bad enough then just buy it like a regular human being and don't steal it like human scum.

[Killian @ Mar 18th 2007 3:58PM]

I want to use Vista, but not enough to pay for it. However, I've gotten one of the cracks out there to work (for the mean time) so it's ok

[Revrant2394 @ Mar 18th 2007 4:19PM]

I love that attitude "Everyone who pirates is scum" that's great, I mean I know where the attitude comes from, those smarmy guys who pirate everything Microsoft but can't refrain from slamming them, knowing all too well they can afford to buy the products they steal, right? Yeah, but keep in mind, before you whip out your virtua-tongue again and look like an idiot, not everyone can afford to buy those things that they steal.

As for this, I really don't care, my family got Vista with their computer, and I never intend to upgrade to it, at least not until I have to, though I'm quite pleased at the prospect of never seeing "NTLDR Is Missing" ever again.

[sendeth @ Mar 18th 2007 11:33PM]

7 of 7.....how is activation a nuisance??? i may not have vista, but ever since my main board blew out, now i have to call ms and tell them any time i want to reformat (xo pro) my computer. that includes calling, waiting on hold, dealing with the arrogant ass on the other end that i can't understand (i swear to got i want to fly to india and start bitch slapping people at the call centers), and explain why it is (4 times on the last call) why it is that i need to use the $200+ program i bought. maybe i'm mistaken, but didn't i pay for this program??? and now that i have heard so many wonderful things about vista, i think i will wait until we are closer to the next os to get vista. maybe the bugs will be fixed by then.

[7of7 @ Mar 18th 2007 11:41PM]

"not everyone can afford to buy those things that they steal."

Linux is free. FreeBSD is free. If you want an OS and can't afford a real one, there are thousands of Linux distros that will work relatively well after a couple months. There's nothing I can do in Vista that you can't sort of do after a bunch of tinkering with Linux. The people who pirate Vista or any other software don't do it because there aren't free alternatives, they do it because it's easy to do and they're human scum who don't feel like paying the people who spend a lions share of their lives developing software in the false hope that they'll be able to feed their families with the money they've made. Luckily the scum are in the minority so it's not like the programmers are hurting, but if this attitude is spread by websites like Engadget who apparently don't care about the programmers or janitors at Microsoft or any other company whose software is regularly stolen then this attitude will surely spread. These are the same kind of scum who don't understand that it's wrong to pay for one newspaper and then take the entire stack out. They are fundamentally lacking in empathy and intelligence.

If they have a problem with Microsoft, don't use their products. That's how the system works. I'm not a fan of capitalism at all, but at least take advantage of the fact that your choice has an impact on corporations.

[mandrill @ Mar 19th 2007 7:05AM]

Its nowhere near as simple as that. For alot of people its windows (of whatever flavour) or nothing. They use it at work, they use it at school, you buy a PC its included in the price. M$ has a virtual monopoly on home computers simply because people don't know any better. Its all very well for geeks like us to say "Oh if people didn't want to use Windows then there are plenty of other options out there" because we know about the options, and for some applications (ie games) there really are no other options. Remember that people will stick with what they know and resist trying anything new or different and you will see that M$'s grip on the home computer market is total.
Another couple of things to note is that to most average people Macs are too pricey and Linux not pricey enough (if its free there must be something wrong with it, right?)

[Ian @ Mar 18th 2007 3:53PM]

But, why is activation an issue if you have a legitimate copy of the OS in the first place? Thats what I'm not getting. You say activating is a hassle for old people? ... If they have a legit copy, they click activate, and then the damned thing is activated, end story... how is that a hassle?

[MrE @ Mar 18th 2007 4:10PM]

Here's a good example of why activation is such a pain: I went over to my mom's house because she said her PC won't auto update any longer. I checked, and behold, there was an update I needed to manually download from Microsoft. No biggie right? Wrong. Turns out it was a new validation scheme (why am I validating an already validated OEM PC?) that had to be run before automatic updates could continue. fine, I download it, which launches an executable to validate my license. OK, I reboot only to find that my validated copy of XP is no longer validated. It says I have a pirate version of the software.

So, I call MS and tell them this is an OEM pre-installed copy of the OS and they tell me to call Dell. I call Dell whom in turn tells me to call Microsoft. See why their draconian activation scheme affects those who are legal to begin with? I finally got someone from MS's "RU Legit" team to fix the snafu, but only after spending hours on the phone. turned out their own tool was invalidating valid copies of the OS, and too many blocks of licenses were flagged incorrectly. Way to go Microsoft!

Do I expect my mom, who's not technically savvy to call and know how to handle this stuff on her own? Understand why people do not like it when they see a dialog box pop up on their machine saying they are pirates?

[zoara @ Mar 18th 2007 5:38PM]

@Killian:
I want to drive a Ferrari, but not enough to pay for it. However, I've stolen one from a Ferrari dealer to drive (for the mean time) so it's ok

[e_man_88 @ Mar 18th 2007 4:05PM]

@1

Mac OS doesn't NEED activation because the OS is stuck to the Apple computers only. Anyone who can even run Mac OS will already have an Apple computer, and thus have no need to pirate.

[MarkZ @ Mar 18th 2007 4:12PM]

I wouldn't lose sleep over this. Engadget has just treated us to another gem from the literary and technological genius that is Conrad Quilty-Harper.

[Pal @ Mar 18th 2007 5:50PM]

Not necessarily true. Updated OSs after system purchase cost money.

[AndrewNeo @ Mar 18th 2007 10:07PM]

That's funny.. not only could you steal a copy of OS X and put it on a different machine, but you can install it on a regular PC, too. Old news.

[bluemonq @ Mar 18th 2007 5:18PM]

Wait, so because they can't afford the stuff they're stealing...that somehow automatically makes it okay? Neat. I'll be sure to tell that to the judge when they pick me up for jacking someone's ThinkPad at the library tommorrow.

[strider_mt2k @ Mar 18th 2007 4:32PM]

This so makes me want to run Vista.

Still waiting for a reason to, actually.

[Jeff Lewis @ Mar 18th 2007 4:43PM]

Actually, the SkipRearm trick doesn't work on every version - I have a legal copy of Vista Home Premium OEM and SkipRearm doesn't seem to work on it.

Also, if you dig a little deeper into the "syspreg /generalize" solution, you'll see that it's a pretty serious 'fix'. It's not actually intended to reset the activation clock - what it actually does is reset the entire install back to 'factory' state with the intent of creating an install image for other identical hardware sets, typically in a business with many identical computers.

Sysprep blows away your SID, for one thing. That's the unique ID that allows your system to be identified in Microsoft networks - and is how you get permission to join the network and get access to resources.

As for pirates - technically that term applies to people who copy and *sell* software illegally (why would a pirate steal something with no intention of profiting off it). The people who use illegal copies of software for private use aren't pirates.

That being said, they *are* stealing. I'm sorry - but that's what it is. Let's be honest about it. You can justify it any way you want - but that's what it is. You are using someone else's work without paying for it, and without their permission. That's the definition of the word 'theft'. What's even worse, you're complaining because they're trying to STOP you.

The 'Use Macs' argument is silly. You can't use MacOS without a Mac unless you crack it - which puts you right back in the 'thief' zone. Apple does charge for MacOS if it doesn't come with the computer - and they charge for the computer if it does - either way, you're paying for it - it's not free.

The argument that they don't copy protect it is kind of specious. Until MacOS X Intel, it used hardware protection in the form of an uncommonly used CPU. With MacOS X Intel, the OS relies on PKI in the form of a TPM chip. You can't duplicate the contents of this chip - so the only way to run MacOS X Intel on any other Intel system is to modify the OS with the express intent of violating the agreement with which it comes.

IE: Stealing it.

There's no difference.

So get off the moral high horse - it's not as high as you think.

Microsoft can't use the TPM trick because they don't control the hardware and can you imagine the screaming that would happen if they required it or worse - required some kind of PKI token such as a dongle?

Finally, as usual, we generalise from the exception to the norm. Activation is hardly 'draconian'. For the vast majority of customers it's completely transparent. The one case over which I would agree the activation system is badly handled is MrE's example which is a consequence of Microsoft's trying to offload the activation process to OEMs and to offer a way to eliminate the activation process for them.

Microsoft lets them buy their OSes at a reduced price by having them take up the cost of frontline support. That's usually clearly stated in the documentation and on the support pages of help in the OS - that you contact the hardware maker first.

For the record, this is hardly unusual - try getting customer service for the parts that come with your branded computer.

[o29 @ Mar 18th 2007 5:55PM]

I'm not sure why you're arguing semantics, but you're wrong.

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/pirate

Main Entry: 1pi·rate
: one who commits or practices piracy

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/piracy

Main Entry: pi·ra·cy
3 a : the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright b : the illicit accessing of broadcast signals

[Rick @ Mar 18th 2007 4:46PM]

now why would the MSpyware want to phone home?? hmmm

[Shawn O @ Mar 18th 2007 4:57PM]

"...not everyone can afford to buy those things that they steal."

That's... an odd sort of justification for stealing. Just because you can't afford something doesn't mean you're entitled to have it. Do you honestly believe that you are entitled to certain things regardless if you can afford it or not? So you're basically saying, "If I want it, I should be able to have it, by any means."

Hey, tell me where you and your family live, sounds like that's one place I can just walk in and take whatever I want, regardless if I have the money or the rights to do so.

For the record, I don't think all pirates are scum, I think they are usually misguided kids that want things and haven't really learned the value of working for them. In my own youth I used to pirate software all the time off of old pirate BBS systems.

Though, the difference it seems between the younger me and you is that even then I knew I was stealing as I downloaded Photoshop 3.0. I knew even at 12 that just because I couldn't afford to buy software didn't grant me the right to steal it. No one is entitled to own software or music, there is a no manifest destiny of operating systems.

[Revrant2394 @ Mar 18th 2007 8:55PM]

Looks like I have multiple wonderfully off topic replies, God, oh well, looks like I need another banned email.

I can see I'm just going to have to be the bad guy by the "Low Ranked", that's alright, I know lots of rich or well-off people browse Engadget and have no grasp of what being lower class is like. I say I knew because I've run into this before, and I've gotten Low Ranked before.

tim: I'll do that, but see, the Corporation's decision to punish it's employees because it's not making the profit it wants to make due to "perceived" loss from people pirating it's expensive software, thus decreasing their pay, and even laying them off is not a direct action of the piracy. I didn't say it doesn't harm anyone, I tried to relay that it doesn't harm anyone directly with my example, and it does not, therefore walking up and beating someone for their possession and pirating software are not identical, and comparing them so directly is disgusting and arrogant.

O2: "If you want to use a software/OS without paying for it, that's your problem. " See, and there it is, Want, as if there was an easier choice yet we chose that one and thus it's our "problem". For your information though it's a copyright infringement, if you want to go "definitions" on me, well I need only direct you to the third page.

Shawn: You're wrong a few minor points, namely theft, but yes, that makes sense, you're wrong about me though in one regard, I'm not some child stealing because they don't know any better. Let me lay this out, a person is poor, their family is poor, very poor, this person is talented in some regard, they steal software they need to use this talent, they make money, they become wealthy. Now that's an extreme example, but that's the best I can do to these jerks citing "So I can just walk up and steal stuff and it's okay", it's not all smarmy people pirating software. Sorry to be playing Devil's Advocate here, but it is, in some regard, okay, to pirate, that's not to say stealing is Good, it isn't, but the end result is not always evil, or for evil purposes. Though courts to a degree, and in the eyes of many people here, they are one and the same, I strongly disagree.

[Revrant2394 @ Mar 18th 2007 5:22PM]

You know exactly what was meant, and granted stealing is stealing, walking up and taking a peer's property from them, possibly through direct violence, is not the same as downloading a file on the internet owned by a corporation, it's just arrogant and self righteous to even call the two one and the same.

[tim @ Mar 18th 2007 5:33PM]

Is a corporation not made up of people? And the products sold by the corporation generate money to pay those people? You need to think through your logic. And while you are at it, read up on "moral relativism".

[O2 @ Mar 18th 2007 6:19PM]

a simple defintion of stealing is "take without the owner's consent". Whether the thing you are stealing is an object or intellectual property, stealing is stealing. If you want to use a software/OS without paying for it, that's your problem. But don't try to modify a definition just to avoid guilt.

[bluemonq @ Mar 18th 2007 10:15PM]

I see a computer that I like. I don't have the money to go to a store to pay for it. I go ahead and take the computer next time anyways.

I see a music file online. I don't have the money to go to a store to pay for it. I go ahead and copy a file next time anyways.

You want to nitpick and say, "Oh, because I *copied* a *digital file*, it's not such a big deal." But it's the same: you didn't feel like paying for it; you shouldn't have a right to it.

[somewhereinwesterncanada @ Mar 18th 2007 5:24PM]

Vista like Microsoft is a "irritation".

I've been a Windows user from 1995, but I have decieded to dump Windows and Vista and go the Mac route, since Vista is going if it is'nt already there, another ME.

With a MacBook you can have you cake and eat it to, since you can run XP as well Mac software on it.

[TheCount @ Mar 18th 2007 5:37PM]

Have you actually used Vista? I'm using it right now, and it's nothing like ME.

[Adrian Williams @ Mar 18th 2007 5:25PM]

You know what I prirated XP but I want giddy about Vista and was going to fork down the bucks for it but you know what after all this shait I dont want it

[s00pcan @ Mar 18th 2007 5:52PM]

"You are using someone else's work without paying for it, and without their permission. That's the definition of the word 'theft'."

Right, because theft has ALWAYS been defined as "using someone else's work. Except it hasn't. Stealing is taking something that isn't yours where the other person is not going to have it anymore. IE stealing a disc. This isn't the same.

[Finite @ Mar 18th 2007 6:24PM]

What about IP that doesn't belong to you? Such as articles or books?

Isn't that stealing others words? I mean, it's ok since they still have them, so I can feel free to reprint top selling books and sell them knowing I'm in the clear, is that right?

What about photographs? No need to ask to reprint those, because they still have the original, eh?

How about a logo? Can I use the Microsoft logo as well? I mean, it's not like I'm taking it away from them, I would be using it along with them.



Movies, Music, Software, Books, (digital) Art, etc. All those can now be copied exactly without harm to the original, but does that mean it's ok? Of course not. The cost isn't in the medium it's published in, it's in the time and money spent creating it. Do you really think books use $20 worth of paper to print? No, but time was spent creating those stories and people should be paid for the enjoyment you recieve out of it. This is new, exact copies weren't really possible before (with the exception of books) and companies are having to come up with ways to protect their property from theives. I mean let's be honest, when no ones looking, people, in large, do not always do teh right thing.

It's almost becoming an honor system, and we know how that turns out..

[Christian Martin @ Mar 18th 2007 6:04PM]

Can someone please give this author with an already known bias against anything MS some news about something from Apple so he has something positive to say for once?

[James Smith @ Mar 18th 2007 10:45PM]

Well in that case, Panther and XP were obsoleted by Linux :-)

[Finite @ Mar 18th 2007 6:11PM]

I wouldn't read too much into this article, just follow the source. The author is the same one who wrote the terribly biased article about Microsoft the other week...

Here it is: http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/10/vista-activation-crack-2-auto-renews-the-30-day-grace-period/#comments

Now, I use OSX on a daily basis, it's a personal choice and, since I feel it's more user friendly, I prefer it over xp, though they are both fine operating systems.. But I absolutely hate people like the author who write intentionally derogatory articles, without being clear on his stance beforehand, in order to sway opinion in the favor of their choosing instead of letting the reader come to his own conclusion. He's hoarding sheep to bring in more comments.

If you're going to insert opinion, state it upfront. Though isolating a large percentage of your readers who use a microsoft OS just because you have some weird hate against the company is just unprofessional. Any reasonable person could see this.

[crunkMonkey101 @ Mar 18th 2007 6:13PM]

It isn't like registering windows is even as complicated as registering to post here at engadget. I mean, put in the code, press register, and quit bitching.

[walk2k @ Mar 18th 2007 6:17PM]

As long as you wait 30 days between activations you can use one copy as many times as you want.

Surprised nobody has mentioned this.

SO since they give you a 30 days trial ACTIVATION MEANS NOTHING and never did... The only people who care are bored net-nerds who just have to complain about something... zzzzzzzzz

[David H @ Mar 18th 2007 6:41PM]

Livingston, not Livingstone.

[tekdroid @ Mar 18th 2007 6:41PM]

I'm waiting for a catchphrase like the superb "welcome to the social" for Zune, for Vista. Otherwise, I don't know why I would want to use it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Windows_Vista

Everyone knows catchphrases sell sell sell.

[walk2k @ Mar 18th 2007 6:43PM]

theft,
–noun 1. the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.

"personal goods or property..." Copyrights are neither, they are ... surprise.... "rights".

cop·y·right
–noun 1. the exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 50 years after his or her death.

"the exclusive right..."

Copyright infringement is a violation of another entity's rights, not an act of theft, or "stealing".

If you'd like to debate the definitions of these words you can certainly take it up with Merriam-Webster et,al... but when someone says "copyright is not theft" and you accuse them of changing the meaning of the words - well you really look like an uneducated idiot don't you?

[SH @ Mar 18th 2007 6:50PM]

Why is activation an issue?

Because you are guilty until proven innocent. Similar mindset with DUI roadblocks. Prove you are not doing something wrong before you continue. This is not the American way.