Vista activation "more an irritation to legit users than an antipiracy measure"
By Conrad Quilty-Harper 
posted March 18th 2007 2:37PM
posted March 18th 2007 2:37PM
Those are the words of Brian Livingstone, a renowned expert on the inner working of Microsoft Windows: in a post on WindowsSecrets.com, he exposes a backdoor route around activation which effectively destroys activation as an antipiracy measure. That, in and of itself, isn't a particularly surprising development (we've already seen two exploits that skip or bypass activation); no, the real story is the fact that the exploit was created by Microsoft itself. The "SkipRearm" process involves some simple editing of Registry files that can "extend the activation deadline of Vista indefinitely." This backdoor around WGA was created to help corporations keep machines working whilst they work under the heavy burden of prepping systems for Vista activation. If they can't do it within Vista's 30 day grace period, they can postpone activation by 30 days up to three times using the "sysprep /generalize" command: SkipRearm can be executed indefinitely. Specifically, Microsoft documentation says "Microsoft recommends that you use the SkipRearm setting if you plan on running Sysprep multiple times on a computer." Now that Windows Activation could potentially help pirates as well as annoy legitimate Windows owners, it's hard to see how Microsoft will be able to continue to justify using this ineffective, draconian system.[Via ComputerWorld, thanks to everyone who sent this in]
theft,
–noun 1. the act of stealing; the wrongful taking and carrying away of the personal goods or property of another; larceny.
"personal goods or property..." Copyrights are neither, they are ... surprise.... "rights".
cop·y·right
–noun 1. the exclusive right to make copies, license, and otherwise exploit a literary, musical, or artistic work, whether printed, audio, video, etc.: works granted such right by law on or after January 1, 1978, are protected for the lifetime of the author or creator and for a period of 50 years after his or her death.
"the exclusive right..."
Copyright infringement is a violation of another entity's rights, not an act of theft, or "stealing".
If you'd like to debate the definitions of these words you can certainly take it up with Merriam-Webster et,al... but when someone says "copyright is not theft" and you accuse them of changing the meaning of the words - well you really look like an uneducated idiot don't you?
...my solution...don't use mac or windows...
Why is activation an issue?
Because you are guilty until proven innocent. Similar mindset with DUI roadblocks. Prove you are not doing something wrong before you continue. This is not the American way.
You know, a lot of people seem to be forgeting that it's not the pirates MS is trying to "stop" but rather the casual copying of Joe Schmo to his neighbor. And it that sense it works just fine for MS because neither Joe Schmo nor his neighbor know how to circumvent the activation process. If MS stops a few real pirates too, it's only a plus.
I've never seen the problem with activation.
It's intention was to discourage REGULAR EVERYDAY PEOPLE from "borrowing" a CD and using it on multiple PCs - it works for that.
It's not to stop hardcore pirates and crackers.
It was a tool to technically enforce a term of the licence.
Windows Validation on the other hand is definitely a tool to reduce the usefulness of "cracked" copies.
I had to activate Windows XP earlier today (it was an install in a virtual machine). It took all of 20 seconds, I thought something had gone wrong considering how quick it was - and that was under virtualisation.
this is a ridiculously article and titled misleadingly. If you own 'legit' Vista then there is NO hassle in activation. After I installed mine it activated itself. I did not have to do anything. If you are an IT dude installing vista, you have the friggin key with you when you are installing it, type it in! Where is the hassle? i don't see no steenkin hassle
bad bad BAD engadget bad mojo
I wonder which bandwagon this article came from...
I don't know about versions of Mac OS prior to 7.6.1 but that is way more than just five years without needing to bother with activation codes. In fact it is only recently with applications like Aperture, iWork, and the latest versions of Final Cut Pro and DVD Studio Pro that any Apple applications have needed activation codes in the 10+ years that I have been using the platform.
People still pirate Mac OS and Mac software though but I think Apple would rather treat its honest customers right instead of trying to punish the pirates. Thing that Microsoft, the RIAA, the MPAA, and many others need to realize is that pirates are not customers. One pirated product does not always equal one missed sale especially when it comes to music and movies but also when it comes to questionable upgrades to the OS or productivity software. People will often take a free copy of something that they would never be willing to pay for. The lesson being to treat your customers right and give them a real reason to invest in your products.
Hmm.. I have to say, though I do see your point you are trying to get across, you do a terrible job of conveying it. I mean, initially your post seems to say "If you can't afford it, steal it." And now, this post ends with "The end justifies the means." As those are clearly wrong arguments to many, the somewhat grey area point you were trying to make gets lost.
Now, when it comes to truly poor people, there is an argument that having access to software for free would assist that person to better himself and end up paying for a new version of the software once he's able to afford it. Now, this is very grey, because, while it's illegal, one could say the losses wouldn't be realised and that, in the longrun, it contributes to the use of the given software as a standard. But, for many costly programs, there are free alternatives available (openoffice?) which can be used without breaking any laws. Also, if you were to attend a school, many of the programs related to their classes are given to the students at extremely reduced prices for thier education.
I think the correct argument would really be that, although pirating programs may have a net positive effect, it should really be up to the owner of the IP to decide whether or not he wants to allow it. If you truly are unable to afford certain programs, I suggest writing the developers with your story and a request to temporarily use their IP at no cost. You would be surprised how often you hear back.
As for other forms of piracy, such as music, movies, games, which are purely entertainment, there is no justification for this theft. Buy the movie, if you can't afford it, save up for it like normal people. You'll appreciate it more as well.
Thanks for, I don't, agreeing with me in a strange way, many people here has no idea what that's like, and thus refuse to see it as anything but wrong and terrible, thus I'm unsure what to make of everyone attacking people who pirate when they themselves have never been in a position where they need to pirate. When they "want" something, they just buy it, and they can't feel empathy for people in a situation which escapes them. As for, free alternatives, Gosh, not as often as I'd like but they do exist, you don't even need Open Office, Word/notepad would do you fine, but that leads into ignorance and I'm not fighting for that(might want to take up that one with bluemonq)
Just for fun, I thought I would add that engadget's comment activation is more an irritation to legit users than an antispam measure.
Seeing as I continue to see WoW gold spam comments, it's hard to see how Engadget will be able to continue to justify using this ineffective, draconian system.
Hassle?
all i had to do was burn vista to a dvd. (after torrenting for a day)
then get the new OEM activation crack. (torrented too)
click install.
reboot.
and BAM i got vista activated!
Poverty does not justify wrongdoing. Period. Using the software without paying for it is theft. Period. There is no such thing as indirect theft. You are, without a doubt, stealing from the company. The moral implications of that are between you and your conscience, but don't try to use euphemisms and fool yourself about what you're actually doing. Yes, the software is expensive - but its vendor has the right to price however it pleases. Its placement out of your price range does not justify you in attempting to take it illegally.
@walk2k:
You are quite mistaken. You state in your message that theft is the removal of property. Please check the entry for "property" from your same source, Merriam-Webster. Definition 2b reads "the exclusive right to possess, enjoy, and dispose of a thing." 2c states "something to which a person or business has a legal title." Also, read the definition for "intellectual property." Merriam-Webster clearly defines intellectual property to be a form of property (and why this should confuse anyone is beyond me), thereby implying that the taking of intellectual property without permission would be considered theft just as stealing a physical object would be.
Again, if you have no problems with your own conscience, good for you. But don't try to fool yourselves into thinking it's not theft.
Well you're just a jerk, I'm not replying to you anymore, I think you've made it very clear that you see people who steal as impulsive and selfish, and they are always fully capable of buying the things they steal with your broken record of a comment, "feel" like paying for it, again as though they have some easy choice of paying for it.
You know what, go back to your money and roll in it.
actually, technically i think that pirating software is more "freeriding" than stealing. still unjustified, obviously, but by copying the software you're not robbing someone else of their opportunity to use it, like you would be if you stole something physical. you're just duplicating it. yes, it's still wrong because those who made the software are entitled to your money if you use their products.
and the whole poor argument: it IS unfair that those who can afford it get more music and more software and more stuff, don't delude yourselves that just cos you have more money you are more entitled to that music and software, but life is unfair.
i dunno why i'm even saying this, people are just gonna get pissed...
To other human beings who aren't always fortunate enough to be ABLE to buy the things they want:
human scum
scum
lacking in empathy
Wow, practice what you preach maybe?
After reading over my initial reply to you, my editing made it somewhat more harsh than I had initially planned it. It was supposed to come across more as a give and take. I just thought I would clear that up, because you did have a valid point. I was merely trying to expand upon it while giving arguments against it. In the end, it ended up sounding somewhat mean, I suppose.
Few situations are white and black, there's usually a grey area where things may be wrong or right depending on your perspective. Those who disagree with that are merely being silly.
I use this rearm trick...so you probably think i'm a pirate,.....right.......WRONG!
I paid cash money for Vista Home Premium Full, like $230 for it. But I have 2 computers, so I have to use the rearm trick on my secondary one because I'm not buying vista again, and shouldn't have to. Someone who owns something has the right to copy it for themselves...not to give to someone else, or to sell, but to only use for themselves...which is what I'm doing.
I will not in a million years buy one OS twice.
and now, thanks to this little trick, I have many more months of vista use on my secondary pc...in which I assume before that time runs out I will have found a permanent solution in its place.
I'm the traditional "broke college student". I probably have less money than you do. I work two part-time jobs while taking a full load of classes. When I decide to spend my meager, hard-earned salaries, you can bet that I've given a lot of thought into the purchase.
I love music of all kinds, classical, jazz, indie. Would I love to be able to buy new CDs every week? You betcha. But I know I can't afford to do so - hell, buying a new CD each month is a stretch sometimes. Do I think CDs are way too expensive? Yes. Do I then think I have the right to download it off of DC++/BitTorrent/(some other P2P service? No, I don't.
Saying that people who steal stuff can afford to pay for it - that's silly. If they had the money, they probably *would* pay for it. And while I empathize with those who can't afford the latest and greatest - believe me, my bank account would attest to that - as someone who doesn't download music, I really don't understand why people feel entitled to stuff that they can't pay for. I just don't feel that way - but you might think I'm strange. We'll have to agree to disagree then.
It's f____ ridiculous. The only people it affects are the legitimate users. The hacks continue, and the honest users get put through hell. Nice way to run a company eh?
How would MS like it if every time they got in to start their new car they had to phone in to turn on the ignition? Hell it might not be your car right?
The government needs to come down on them hard. And I mean as in break up the company and send it to pieces hard. They worked years to have people over a barrel and force their system as 'the' system to use, and now this? It's a tyrannical monopoly wielding their power because no one can stop them. Oh and where was the part about how this system was going to save us money later in years to come? You mean save us money like Vista being $200-400??? How long is this pricing and this bully behavior on customers going to go on before the Federal government wakes up and does something? Oh wait, guess these are the same feds who couldn't watch a weather report for Louisiana...
MS should be paying us to deal with this cr**. I'm sick and tired making a corporation of millionaires and billionares and being treated like I'm the crook, with nothing better to do but rebuy their software or call them up on MY TIME. MS are the damn criminals, we just haven't seen it yet.
my windows vista from Campus Agreement can't get activated. :( It said that the key has been used too many times, when basically there are LOTS of people here using same key (that is, from Campus Agreement - and we only get one key for everyone).
It should be noted that if you bypass Activation in this way, you will not be able to receive any Microsoft Genuine Advantage software or updates. Genuine Advantage requires you to activate your installation.
That is all.
Oh my, I don't even make enough to pay insurance on a vehicle and well, it gets worse from there, but I'm not going to argue that point, winning that leads to a depressing realization.
I sympathize, took me a good four months to pull together the money to buy Half-Life 2 when it came out, even then I needed Birthday money to pull it off, I do think it's silly, whenever I've had money to buy something I really desire, I do, I don't go and pirate it off the internet when I can purchase it.
As for feeling entitled, that's a bit too deep for a comments section, why people want things they know they can't have, that's just humanity. I guess for most people, having something they normally could not have in their current circumstance(More music, applications, etc) is worth the risk, and can be justified in their minds as not stealing. I suppose it all comes down to wanting something bad enough to justify any means of having it, desiring that specific song, that specific game, that application, and submitting to possibly never having it, just doesn't cut it for some, and they're willing to take it in order to have it.
I think some of you that believe that the validation process is simple and non-threatening are missing a big point of contention that a lot of the reat of us are forwarding. Its not the initial validation that is a bugger, but rather the problems one runs into post initial validation.
For instance, I usually upgrade a component (motherboard) about once per year. I continue to use the other components. The hassle comes when I have to re-activate by telephone because the new hardware is dinged as 'foreign computer so its gotta be pirated' conclusion.
What Microsoft needs to do is offer a whole-house licensing plan that covers the entire home. For instance, if I've got three computers at home and the whole-house license reports IP from ISP for MAC then its accepted transparently, meaning the end user isn't hassled. Period.
Unfortunately, Microsft is willing to annoy legitimate customers and not properly address the bulk of their lost revenue because they cannot control what occurs outside the USA. I am not against paying for Vista (haven't got it yet), but I have got a major problem with being hassled for upgrading a PC, and then having to multiply this three fold.
And someone already illustrated an exact condition where less tech-savvy people are going to be exponentially bothered needlessly by false positives that will continue to be a more global problem. And this says nothing about privacy issues.
Don't worry about it, my reply had a few mistakes as I had just woken up, and I got the gist of what you were trying to relay. I agree though, people, like that Jerk blue, refuse to see any grey area, and that's just silly.
You know what?
I'm a pirate.
You know why?
I had a legitimate, full retail copy of XP Home that I installed for a fourth time. I called in for the activation, no problem.
Then WGA came about. And said my system was pirated, even though it wasn't.
So here are my options...
1) I can waste hours and hours dealing with MS tech support, running different bits of software, possibly trying to find a receipt from a few years ago, then repeat every time I have to update something or they change the validation tool. For a piece of software I paid a few hundred dollars for.
2) Pirate
Plus I have gotten a lot of people's old boxes for parts that had OEM XP licenses installed on them. So I figure I've gotten about 10 OEM licenses from other people, one full retail license, and the OEM license on my laptop. 12 licenses for 3 computers should be enough, right?
Intellectual property is a farce. If you are going to invest time into something which can be so easily reproduced, you have no right to complain when it happens. Record labels, software companies, and all other digital media rights holders are grossly overcompensated for thier "product". If I can take a Windows OS that cost $8,000,000,000 to develop and copy it for $0.12, how much is it actually worth?
The premise of patents and copyright claims is beginning to fail as technology progresses. Admittedly, I'm a proponent of open-source software as well as the horizon of open-source manufacturing. It is getting more obvious that IP is unsustainable. It may look socialistic, but the foundations of capitalism suggest that if supply can be infinitely increased, then the value of a resource nears nothing.
Mac OSx86- the Mac experience on a PC. If you like to tinker, it's far more fun to use than Windows. I use it because I need a laptop tougher than a Powerbook/Macbook Pro but I don't feel like giving up MacOS.
I agree with most of what Revrant2394 has said.
Thing is, most people are brainwashed to believe that if something is 'illegal' then it wrong in a moral sense. Actually in many cases it is a complete dichotomy. Mankind makes laws, and often it is not even a democratically created law (another example of brainwashing - just because someone on the TV tells you that you are living in a democracy does not make it so). 'Stealing' a computer and 'stealing' software online is not the same thing. Even a fool could tell you there is a difference in harm. A judge in court would have to view it as the same thing, because he is bound by legislation. But that does not mean we should stop using our heads and common sense.
i just don't get why pirates need to morally justify themselves.
I
don't copy music, movies or programs because i think it's my right to
do that. I only do it because i don't have enough money, and because i
don't get caught. End of story.
And frankly, nobody have ever lost any money because of it. If the option to pirate/steal/copy wasn't there, i just wouldn't have the money to buy it anyway. "Don't you think about the hard working people??". Sometimes yes, but mostly i don't
really care. Feel free to call me scum.
I see stealing of intellectual property more like cheating on a test by looking at another guys answers. It's not good (in the long term), it's not right, he doesn't
lose, i don't lose. And if everybody else does it too, he may lose by
comparison, but i don't care enough.
Note that i don't encourage anyone to take anyones elses property, i just dont get why pirates need to justify what they are doing by bullshitting everyone else.
Just accept what you are, don't get caught and if you do, face the consequences of being a thieve.
I totally agree that activation is a problem, especially on Vista - I got a copy of Vista right when it came out (actually the day before), and loaded it that night. Since there were no Vista drivers for my RAID card, I had to install it on a standaloen drive connected to my mobo. A week or so later, drivers were released for my RAID card so I reinstalled Vista on that, and had to call in to activate.
I've uninstalled and reinstalled XP more times than I can count without having to activate it again. I guess Vista went & got much pickier.
pirating a copy of windows is not stealing. stealing is taking something away from someone else. when you pirate windows, you make an extra copy of something that already exists thus leaving the original copy intact. pick another term, but 'theft' is hardly the case.
Am i missing something here? I just activate Vista once and since then never have any problem. I can download updates and enhancements MS sent me through Windows Update. Its been about 3 months since my first activation. I did upgrade my RAM once in the second month but it never tell me to activate again.
About method of activation, i think that is the fully rights of MS. Its their property, its their product we are using. There should be none of the pirated-copy user should complain about activation.
I disagree that pirated-copy user have the right to use because of their condition or their need. Piracy is a crime and there should be no reason to justifying it. Activation is one of MS way to protect their product and i think we should honour that.
Here's a way to think about stealing digital media: when you illegally copy something you are not giving someone money that is rightfully theirs, thus depriving them of property without due process of law. What if you copied one of my $20 programs without paying me and because of that I fell short on my rent? You just deprived me of property and maybe even my liberty.
Well then, all that was interesting and generally off topic...
At this point, all this activation thing is complete nonsense. This basically amounts to legitimate users being put through strip searches only to be put on the 'no-fly' list because they were found to be over the carry-on limit because they brought their wallet with them. Basically, hope nothing changes on your computer between your re-installs, cause Microsoft is going to put you through hell and back to get your OS to work again.
My thoughts on piracy... how many of you actually 'own' a copy of Windows for each computer you own? I personally don't see myself spending $200+ dollars per computer just to 'upgrade' it from XP to Vista. Do you? I personally like legitimately owning my software as much as the next person, but there's no way I'm going to go out and buy three copies of a Windows OS. (And no, I do not consider OpenOffice a legitimate replacement for MSOffice, it almost ruined me once, and I'm not giving it another shot at ruining me again, fool me once, shame on you... fool me twice, shame on me.)
I've read through most of comments and feel that most of the complaints are valid.
If you have worked on computers for a long time you may already see that the OS is just a tool. Their are "proprietary" (MS) and "open source" (Linux) operating systems. The open source operating systems have been reviewed and critiqued by thousands of programmers in many countries. They are intrinsically secure.
Have you ever changed or re-installed an OS yourself? What do you REALLY need to do on a computer?
Who in your family needs a computer? How important is 100% reliability?
How important is 0.00% concern about viruses, Trojans, worms, spyware, ad-ware, malware, key-loggers, firewall maintenance, Anti-virus updates, critical updates, patches, zero-day exploits, DRM, WGA, etc.
Would you like to use your computer for one solid year with none of the above problems?
Would you like your only maintenance concern to be operating the on/off switch?
It sounds almost impossible doesn't it?
If you have kids in school, you want the best for them. They don't need to be interrupted with garbage.
They need to access the Internet, download files, play games, create "Word", "Excel" "PDF" and "PowerPoint" FORMATTED documents for school projects.
They need to reliably print documents, send/receive emails and possibly instant message their friends.
You probably need to use all of the above plus securely order items online, securely use online banking, apply using online forms, play music, and burn CD's and DVD's.
I stopped using Microsoft and began using Linux (Freespire). It installs in 20 minutes and you just update the Firefox Browser, the Adobe Acrobat Reader and the OpenOffice.org programs to the latest version using CNR (click and run), which allows access to thousands of free programs. You can download the Linux ISO file for free and create your own CD. (If you do it in Windows, burn4free is a freeware program and has an ISO burning function). Otherwise, you can purchase a CD for 5 to 10 bucks to cover the burning and postage.
If you sign up for GMail, you can store approx. 50,000 emails without deleting any of them. (My Gmail account has over 5,000 emails and I'm only using 10%).
OpenOffice opens, creates and edits files formatted in .doc, .xls, mdb, ppt and other formats. Everything described in this article is "open source" and available without cost. You sign up for a free CNR account to access and install the thousands of programs and program updates available.
Each member of my family has a separate login and we've been using it for 6 months. There have been no virus attacks or other interruptions or inconveniences (and no maintenance). I heartily recommend this Linux distribution for general use. This works especially well for people accustomed to Windows. The free copying and distribution of "open source" software such as Linux Freespire, OpenOffice, and Firefox is encouraged and completely legal. You just don't know how much inconvenience and garbage you have been going through until you get away from it for a while.
Unfortunately when you purchase Windows, you don't "own" it. It's proprietary and you are given the "right" of installing it and using it in a prescribed manner. There is a great difference between XP and Vista licensing. You can't indefinitely keep installing and activating the same "legal" copy of Vista on different computers. Also, certain combinations of hardware changes will be interpreted as a different computer and Windows will stop working. You may need to Re-Activate, but you can only do that a certain number of times. Vista has very different, unique and restrictive licensing. It's a lot like photography and music licensing.