Microsoft pulling OEM Windows XP next January

Like it or not, if you buy a Windows PC in 2008, it's almost certain to be running Windows Vista. Next January is Microsoft's contractual deadline with PC builders for selling the OEM version of Windows XP, meaning computer manufacturers will be forced to stick customers with a copy of Windows Vista, despite the continued driver problems and beefy system requirements. Hopefully Microsoft is able to prep a service pack or two before that time comes, but it's hard to imagine all the kinks being ironed out before then. We're sure you'll be able to nab a retail copy of XP through standard or slightly-shady channels, so it's not like you'll never see that frumpy "Luna" theme ever again, but we still won't be surprised at an '08 backlash if Microsoft makes good on its promises.

[Via Slashdot]

[boe @ Apr 12th 2007 12:40PM]

I have to support network PCs for a living and I won't roll out Vista on even brand new machines as they are as slow as turtles in a network environment. I read up on all of MS's excuses about it being firewalls, routers, third party apps, bad network drivers that were causing the issue and finally I've seen some posts about MS admitting that Vista sucks in a network environment. They don't have a fix yet and yet they want to do away with the OS that works fine for networks. Two of my clients are in the media industry so file sizes tend to exceed 1 GIG where transfers can take hours whereas they only take about 5 minutes.

I think Balmer might succeeed in bringing down one of the largest companies of all time. Way to go! Vista is horrible, zune is bad but Exchange 2007 is truly one of the most half baked items MS has ever released. They admit they haven't finished with it but SP1 due at the end of the year should restore all the functionality not available in exchange 2007 that has been present since Exchange 2000. I'm not an MS fanboy but I did use their products pretty loyally since Windows 3.11 (recognizing their shortcummings but not expecting perfection) - every since uncle fester took over, I'm beginning to take more interest in open source as the products released are not tested or the release group doesn't care about the glaring gaps/malfunctions/$@ckups within their products.

[Kev50027 @ Apr 12th 2007 1:11PM]

Are you insane? I ran Vista Ultimate on my Core Duo laptop with only a gig of RAM and it ran great, it even runs just fine on my P4 3.2 Ghz! You obviously are using crappy drivers or you don't understand the whole "turn on the computer" thing. Vista is a great OS, and Engadget is being their usual biased self with this BS post.

[boe @ Apr 12th 2007 1:27PM]

Kev,

I'm guessing your post is meant as a joke but in case anyone doesn't realize how bad Vista performs in a network environment, I'd suggest you google network slow vista or read Microsofts newgroups on Vista network sharing, or read MS Technet, or read experts-exchange. It is a pretty well known issue although MS is just now finally admitting it - http://forums.techarena.in/showthread.php?t=691299 - at first they claimed it was drivers, firewalls, third party apps - just about anything they could to point the finger elsewhere. It is a design flaw in the new network configuration in Vista.

I discovered it pretty darn quickly - I had several hardware wise identical machines, I tried transferring files between Vista and XP, XP and XP, Vista and WIndows Servers running Windows Server 2003 R2 - all the latest drivers, patches tweaks. I could transfer a 1 gig file in about 3-5 minutes on the XP machines - it took up to an hour on the Vista machines - depending on how many "features" of Vista I turned off that are on by default.

[pat.m @ Apr 13th 2007 11:32AM]

This guy is on the right track:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwno&mode=related&search=

[R Herrera @ Apr 12th 2007 12:41PM]

People, get over it.. Vista is really not that bad!

[Rick @ Apr 12th 2007 1:36PM]

Vista isn't that bad-- Wow, what a resounding endorsement! I'll hurry out and get it today!

Also not that bad: one-ply toilet paper, communist housing, Yugos, and Rosie O'Donnel's mustache.

[John Stracke @ Apr 12th 2007 12:42PM]

Yeah, but "beefy system requirements" are not a problem from the OEM's point of view; it means they can take older, lower-margin machines off the market.

[steve @ Apr 12th 2007 12:42PM]

if you don't like vista, you could always buy a mac. I really wish people would realize that they don't HAVE to run windows. Don't get me wrong, macs arn't perfect(imo they are better), but at least realize there is a choice.

[Kev50027 @ Apr 12th 2007 1:13PM]

...or you could save thousands and run Linux. Mac is still not an alternative to most XP or Vista users, because the software they use won't run, and it costs more, and you have to buy an entirely new computer, and you have to pay an absurd amount for something that does nothing an XP/Linux machine can't do.

[RyanTV @ Apr 12th 2007 12:43PM]

This really isn't a surprise. You say that you don't think that things will be ironed out with Vista by Jan 08? You are crazy. Vista is very close to complete now - Yes it is a few months after retail and it still isnt 'done' - but there are finally both 32 and 64 bit drivers out for most current hardware (at least that i have in my machines)

January is 9 months away still and both Microsoft and 3rd party vendors are pushing to resolve both software and hardware compatibility issues, and the looming deadline of the cease of OEM sales *should* push them harder to make sure things are tip-top by then.

And while Vista definitely has higher hardware requirements, at the same time component costs are still dropping. You can configure a very good vista premium capable machine for $600.

[plaidpjs @ Apr 12th 2007 1:02PM]

Perhaps, if you are a computer wonderkind (sp?) you can build your own Vista Premium capable machine (mind you with extremely limited usability because you forgot the miscellaneous components you need and not just the processor, motherboard, hdd and ram), but you cannot configure one at any of the major distributors for that price.

There in, however, lies the ruffle, MOST people do not build their own machines. MOST people don't even want to try. And, while I am sure there are a number of people willing to pop up on this board and say they build their own machines, this board represents a small share of the market overall and most people who frequent it are the small subset that WANTS to build their own machine.

As for XP going the way of the dinosaur in less than a year, that isn't unexpected and, in fact, should be what everyne expected. Microsoft wants to be able to say, by mid-2008, that the majority of Windows computer users have selected their "fastest selling, bestest OS release yet." Whether or not that statement is valid, they still want to be able to sell it.

Ciao!

[John @ Apr 12th 2007 7:52PM]

"Vista is very close to complete now"
^ Wow.

[Aron Trimble @ Apr 12th 2007 12:54PM]

And isn't Dell going to sell Linux boxes?

[Liqwid @ Apr 12th 2007 12:55PM]

Mmmmm, Vista's really fudging up my new Lenovo 3000 N100. It has a good rating, and I updated everything. I don't see what the problem is. Not only that, but the battery drains to about 60% in about 30min. whereas it usually lasts around a good three and a half hours when it had XP. I'm running 1024mb of RAM in the thing, but I only have, at the most, 512mb to use. Things will get better over time. Just gotta wait for some updates and patches.

I have a Mac, but it's my desktop. It's only better for productive uses, not everyday tasks. If Microsoft was still fully supporting Apple with IE and the respective plug-ins, WMP, and a fully featured MSN Live Messenger I'd use it as an everyday machine.

[plaidpjs @ Apr 12th 2007 1:01PM]

LOL... your last paragraph screams to be "fanboi" fodder... but I'll leave it alone.

I will say this, given what's holding you back from using your Mac as an everyday machine, you should try Parallels or even Bootcamp. The tasks that you use everyday on your Windows machine function just fine in an emulated environment.

Ciao!

[Liqwid @ Apr 12th 2007 1:13PM]

Not really. You're just implying/assuming I am, which I'm not.

Yea, I've been looking into Bootcamp. Parallels may be a safer route.

[devurandom @ Apr 12th 2007 1:41PM]

I think I speak for all web developers, when I say that people like you deserve to be shot.

[Luigi @ Apr 12th 2007 2:03PM]

You can get all the things you wanted on your Mac.

Windows Media Plugin for Quicktime: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/player/wmcomponents.mspx

MSN Messanger: (I recomend Adium) adiumx.com, or Windows Messanger Mac http://www.microsoft.com/mac/default.aspx?pid=msnmessenger

IE: I dont know why in hell you would want it, but you can still get it from download.com

I switched to a Macbook last June, use it for everything, and would never turn back.

[Liqwid @ Apr 12th 2007 2:20PM]

Jeez... you guys... get off my case... It's just a preference that I like to have. I already know about Live Messenger and the WM plug-in. I just want them to be more well featured. I just like more preferences. That's all. Jeez...

[alex @ Apr 12th 2007 3:34PM]

re: Why your battery drains to about 60% in about 30min.

"This is an operating system that, when idle, will have to check itself every 30 microseconds to make sure nothing is still happening, and no hackers are attacking it. It acts like an unmedicated paranoid. If Vista catches on, hundreds of millions of computers will be burning heptillions of cycles and tons of coal just making sure that no one is putting a voltmeter on the traces on its motherboard."

http://www.boingboing.net/2007/01/13/vista_suicide_note_r.html

[ShaleX @ Apr 13th 2007 7:56AM]

that's one thing I hate about mac and mac users... Get on Microsoft for not supporting 3 year old machines, but what's apple doing to support my 2 year old PPC powerbook G4? Squat-diddly-shit that's what. I'd love to use iChat AV, but... damnit, i can't find any Webcams on the market that support it.. iSight was discontinued... and even wh'm a nen it was out cost over $100.. Boot Camp and Paralells won't run on my PPC mac.. and hell one program didn't even tell me it needed to be on an intel mac untill i tried to run it for the first time.

I am a newish mac user, switching from Windows... but for as many Apple lies that my experince has debunked... I can't say this platform is "beyond Vista" It's just a different way of doing things with a different set of problems... ie. Why the fuck arent there any Map programs that work with my USB GPS device?

[plaidpjs @ Apr 13th 2007 10:53AM]

Wow... now that's bitter!

1) Look for an old copy of Virtual PC. That software runs on PPC G4s just fine and gives you access to the fundamental Windows programs that were discussed, you just can't play Windows games through it.

2) We're talking about whether an OS supports base machine configurations and the last time I checked, OS X 10.4.9 worked just fine on my Titanium Powerbook. As for your webcam issue, check eBay for an iSight, they're there, I've seen them. And, so what if it cost over $100 when it was out.

3) The "different set of problems" you refer to with your final question are not a fault of Apple, nor of the OS. Software companies, in general, tend to only see the, often skewed, market share numbers for personal computers and then only write their products for Windows. But, by and large, there is very little that is ultimately only available for Windows.

In the case of a Map program, that may be the case, I don't know because I haven't checked. And, that's unfortunate. But, if things continue on their current track as I believe they will, those "problems" will go away. Again, though, that is not the fault of Apple, the OS or the people that support them, fanboi or not!

[Kev50027 @ Apr 12th 2007 1:16PM]

There are two things wrong: Anyone can build a PC if they can put together a disasembled chair purchased from an Office store.

Also, there are machines available for extremely low prices that run Vista just fine. If you can't find one new, there are thousands of used laptops and desktops out there that are completely Vista compatible.

[plaidpjs @ Apr 12th 2007 3:24PM]

Actually... while it may seem simple enough to build your own PC to most of us. It is not to the greater portion of society. Especially if you are talking from the ground up starting with an empty case.

As to your other point, you're right, there are... but not PREMIUM capable. Which is what the OP was saying, that you could configure a Premium capable box for under $600.

[TimBob @ Apr 12th 2007 1:16PM]

I don't know what all the fuss is about Vista. I installed it on my wife's 8 month old Gateway laptop and it works perfectly, Aero interface and everything.

The only driver problem I had was the lack of a 64 bit driver for a 5 year old Canon scanner.

Not an issue for OEMs at all, as I can go to Dell.com today and configure $600 machines that will run Vista all day.

[Evan @ Apr 12th 2007 2:58PM]

"There are two things wrong: Anyone can build a PC if they can put together a disasembled chair purchased from an Office store."

The point is, most people don't WANT to have to build their own machine. Each computer I build for myself takes several hours... finding and downloading the latest version of all the drivers, waiting for the HD to format, waiting for the OS to install, installing all the drivers, and configuring everything. It's a waste of my time, there are things I'd much prefer to do... like actually USE the computer!

Most people use their computers to DO something, like read email, browse the web, write a document, etc, not to tinker with the hardware and OS! Most people spend 99% of their computer time inside an application, and the application is far more important than the OS. Any time spent outside the application is time wasted, because the computer isn't working for the user.

[Kev50027 @ Apr 12th 2007 6:08PM]

"Any time spent outside the application is time wasted, because the computer isn't working for the user."

Oh and I guess you're going to tell me money is time? I mess around with XP all the time, adjusting stuff, uninstalling programs, formatting, defragging, etc. The OS is the key to the internet, and to the applications. I understand people don't want to tinker with things, but honestly, the Vista DVD has enough drivers for most people out there, and if it doesn't have the drivers they need, it's as easy as downloading and installing a small-ish file. Anyway, most people will be buying computers with Vista, not upgrading to it.

[Kev50027 @ Apr 12th 2007 11:25PM]

I don't know what you're talking about, I transferred over 30 gigs fairly quickly, I didn't notice any difference between XP and Vista. I do have a Intel Quad Core with 2 GB RAM and an 8800 GTX and 1.15 Terabytes, but what the hell..

[Kaiser @ Apr 12th 2007 1:31PM]

Who cares XP sucks.

Windows XP was one of the worst Windows releases since Windows ME. It is ugly and the multi-tasking capabilities are awful. Vista on the other-hand, is based on the Windows Server 2003 kernel and is far superior to XP in nearly every way. We are rolling it out in our network and having very few problems.

[Mike @ Apr 12th 2007 1:33PM]

I don't have much "play" time with Vista as I only have purchased one laptop from Dell for our company, but I have to say it has some way to go. Core Duo 2, 2Gigs of Ram, ATI mobile graphics. It sure does look pretty when you're just admiring the windows. However, it can't hold a wireless connection even if I gave it a pair of rabbit ears. Somehow its able to destroy, I mean completely destroy battery life. The machine I put together is not setup to be a travel companion but it sure isn't a desktop replacement. The comment about battery usage is spot on. I have an older Centrino laptop that makes this brand new piece of hardware look slow. I've been tempted to "downgrade" it to XP and see if there is any "noticeable" speed increase.

It could also be that Vista is slow due to usability changes. People are used to the XP interface. They've changed things slightly, it could just seem that finding those familiar functions are a bit too different than before.

[Kaiser @ Apr 12th 2007 1:36PM]

Ok so the file copying is a bit slower over a network... we noticed it too (although the speed you are mentioning is very exagerated - for us Vista took double the time to copy the same file on our gigabit network).

Big deal... I am sure they will get it worked out via an update. There are many improvements to the network capabilities as well - even the fact that you can see your transfer rate at all while copying is something Windows XP never did. Not to mention better network discovery (LLTD) more group policy options, fast user switching on a domain connected machine -- all things that XP couldn't do. And there is much more that I haven't listed here.

[Bob @ Apr 12th 2007 5:58PM]

You can say what you want about one-ply toilet paper, communist housing, Yugos, even Vista. But don't you dare say anything bad about Rosie's mustache! From what I hear she has been borrowing it from Tom Selleck, and his is mustache-tastic!

[W2K alltheway @ Apr 12th 2007 2:08PM]

A POX on both WinXP and Vista. The modest network I administer happily chugs along on Windows 2000 Pro, totally devoid of either of the newer "GameBoy-oriented" POS OS's that Mr. Bill has foisted on the computer community. When the decision is finally made to "upgrade", the ONLY candidate that currently looks remotely "professional" is Windows Server 2003, the REAL successor to Windows 2000, not that Luna"tic" XP, much less "not-Buena" Vista.

[Luigi @ Apr 12th 2007 2:27PM]

Allright, but in your comment you acted as if you had no idea that these things existed.

[Smills @ Apr 12th 2007 3:07PM]

Are you mad? I have Vista Ultimate x64 and it is great, i have had no driver issues, and every program and game I have has worked on it (some have needed patching or upgrading to latest version but no big hassle there). It is obviously the future and i think that Microsoft would have to be mad to not cut off their older OS's production by then. What on earth do you have against Vista Engadget?

[Kev50027 @ Apr 12th 2007 11:46PM]

They're biased. It means that they don't care how good or bad anything is, they just hate it because they love something else (Apple/Mac). They will never stop talking about that useless brick the Apple TV, yet they keep putting down Vista, constantly.

[chadow @ Apr 12th 2007 3:17PM]

People just love to be on the "M$" bashwagon. Someone was even able to pull the Zune into this post...!?!

I just put OEM Vista Premium on my 3 year old Frankenstien PC and its running like a champ. I had ONE driver issue and that was/is my Linksys NIC (Linksys hasnt made one for Vista yet). I dont see what all the fuss is about.

If you dont like Microsoft products, dont use them. If you dont want to upgrade to Vista....dont. But realize, that to many, Vista IS an upgrade to past MS OS's and runs just as its supposed to.

I now use three MS products. Vista, Zune, and Xbox 360. My choice to buy Vista was because I had never paid for a MS operating system since 3.1 and figured it was about time to give them some money. My choice for the Zune was because it was the underdog, was on sale, and performed as well and looked better than its competition. As far as the 360 over the PS3, I just didnt want a BluRay player that might have some games someday. I compared the products, not the manufaturer. In the end, Im happy that these happen to all be MS products because they are all compatible and are working flawlessly with each other.

My point? If you dont like something, dont buy it. Its your choice. If you dont have a choice, well...deal with it.

[boe @ Apr 12th 2007 7:06PM]

You may think I'm bashing MS but if you read my post that included the Zune - you'll see I've been using their products for over 20 years without doing much grumbling until now. I used Windows during the beta stage when it was called CHICAGO and it ran much much better even with the limited driver base available (it was beta) than Vista does today.

If you take anything negative posted about MS as bashing fine cover your ears and yell lalala la I can't here you - pretty sure that is Steve Balmer's new corporate motto. If you read it though - I'm pointing out a major shortcoming of MS to understand their products in a corporate environment -- frankly we are the few that actually pay for their products vs the common pirated home versions. I think they might do well to listen to our concerns.

I threw in the Zune as I'm pointing out yet another half baked product MS released to get it out the door by a specific date. I hate supporting Macs as they are very closed off and don't want to be networked in my opinion but if Vista is going to be a clunker, XP should stick around much longer until MS can get its ducks in a row. I threw out Exchange 2007 as yet another product MS has released as incomplete. I realize XP wasn't perfect when it went RTM but it was far more finished and positive than Vista is. If Vista worked as well as XP did when it was released, you wouldn't think so many of us were "bashing" MS.

I don't think Bill Gates is irreplaceable but I'm pretty sure he'd be handing out an ample supply of termination notices if these products were released under his watch. I don't think Balmer has any idea of quality control, cycle management or corporate responsibilty.

[chadow @ Apr 12th 2007 4:15PM]

boe, thats fair enough. You make great points about Vista and obviously know what you are talking about in most respects.

I can see how Vista could be working great up front to typical users, yet be a nightmare in the background for IT guys and others that have to work with it in corporate or professional situations with specialized software or equipment.

Of course there is growing pains to anything new. Some is to be expected. I am just saying that in my opinion and at the level I use Vista, it seems to be really good software and I am very happy with it. Im sure many are.

As far as Zune goes, I still am unsure what you mean by "half baked" or how you would think of it in any other way than its a pretty great product. I couldnt expect anything more from my Zune and think it performs perfectly.

[Jon @ Apr 12th 2007 3:22PM]

LINUX!

Come on. Microsoft must have something up it's sleeve to make a commitment like ending their most popular OS (and still in high demand) than that. Microsoft knows that Dell will start selling Linux which is already one of many thorns in it's side. I think (for them they better) they have many of the 'kinks' worked out.

I definitely understand their thought process of doing this. Why not help the consumer out by 'forcing' them to move to the technology of today? Just hope that people know that they have options such as Windows Vista, openSuSe, Ubuntu, Fedora, Mac OS X, and the other hundreds of systems available. FOR FREE!

LINUX!

[boe @ Apr 12th 2007 4:50PM]

Chadow - thanks for being open.

I think that Vista is OK for individuals however if you have either the Sony or Dell preloaded versions, you may want to reinstall as I've seen some stability issues in explorer that seem to go away if you do a vanilla install from scratch -haven't figured out what they are doing wrong yet.

I consider Zune less than ideal as the interface needs some improvement for easy access, organization and options. I believe the hardware is bulky and it is a shame Apple puts so much effort into having their hardware meet their specs - like kenmore (although I'm not saying either of them are perfect) and MS with vast financial backing can't spec a nicer unit.

I'm hoping SP1 resolves some of the major performance issues with Vista and should it, I may roll it out a the media companies I consult for as they would benefit although I will be in no rush to release it to the University or financial companies I work for as they won't stand to benefit much.

[marie @ Apr 12th 2007 5:34PM]

Actually it's not Bill it's Steve. In any case, this could be MS's undoing--not just ours. This will open the doors for Google and countless others.

[crypt @ Apr 12th 2007 6:50PM]

Do you hear that?
---pop-----
Thats the sound of a Thousand System administrator's Brains exploding.

[ItGuy @ Apr 12th 2007 7:53PM]

You need to get OS X then. Networks awesome (it is BSD after all), can join an AD network (My Powerbook is joined to AD) and works great.

If anything it's Windows that does not like to network well. Try integrating Linux, AIX, Windows, and OS X on an AD network sometime and tell me how fun it is. MS's stuff is only built to work with MS's stuff. They bastrardized LDAP and Kerberos and while you can get these things working, they never work well or reliably.

AD and MS are cancers on the computing landscape.

[itguy07 @ Apr 12th 2007 7:46PM]

"Two of my clients are in the media industry so file sizes tend to exceed 1 GIG where transfers can take hours whereas they only take about 5 minutes."

OS X. Simple as tht, none of the BS problems like with Windows.

[comment @ Apr 12th 2007 8:36PM]

Vista is one of the crappiest OS's i've seen in my entire life,
at first it looked as if "longhorn" was mostly a GUI change for XP, but really they stripped anything good from XP and left you with... nothhing but garbage. Vista is too user freindly, so much that it is unfriendly. why doesn't microsoft try for a real operating system instead of trying to rape their customers. As for using a Mac, in case you have not noticed, Macs have their place in life, but its not in the work or gaming world. Linux is just not designed for games, or should i say games are not made for linux. So for those saying that there is an option and people should not complain about the Crap that Microsoft produces, shut it.
as soon as there is a competitive operating system that runs network, games and everything else as well as XP, let me know, untill then i will use XP to rate every other OS.
im guessing 9/10 microsoft wants to run from XP because it was done to well, therefore people did not depend on them anymore.

[Kev50027 @ Apr 12th 2007 11:44PM]

You are full of one thing.

That thing has four letters, starts with an "S" and ends with a "hit".

[comment @ Apr 25th 2007 10:54PM]

whatever "Kev50027"
Vista is shit, thats the short and long of the situation, no way to get around that
thanx for trying

[plaidpjs @ Apr 13th 2007 11:01AM]

Kev,

I don't know if you've noticed... but more than just Apple fanbois have been putting down Vista... constantly! The media, other Windows users, Microsoft even when they halfheartedly admit to flaws still being present that they previously claimed to have fixed, everyone... for the last two months, they've all been complaining.

Now, I know it seems fun to target us Apple-fanbois and say it's because were just picking on Vista, but that doesn't take away all the complaints coming from the other sources.

And, don't we have the right to pick on it? I mean, especially when your Windows-god Bill Gates gets on a national news show and claims that certain features in Vista are the first time they've ever existed in an OS or that others are innovations, when anyone that looks at what they've done suddenly has a sense of deja vu because 90% of it has been in OS X for the last three to four years, if not longer?

[Kev50027 @ Apr 13th 2007 11:37AM]

Sorry? I don't agree with you, Vista has many, many features that are NOT in any Mac OS, or Linux for that matter. Even XP has tons of features that are missing in OSX (system restore anyone?).

Not only this, but I've been using Vista since a week after it came out, and have had issues, but they were ALL driver related. None of them were the fault of the OS itself. The OS is a very solid base, but hardware manufacturers have yet to release stable drivers for Vista yet. I promise you, in 6 months, Vista will be more stable than XP with drivers.

The problem isn't even Microsoft's, they gave hardware manufacturers plenty of time to get drivers out, but Creative, Nvidia, and other companies are just lagging behind. They have no excuse, if there's a new Microsoft OS out, it's their responsibility to make drivers ASAP, and they failed miserably.

Microsoft could have delayed Vista further until drivers were out, but they already delayed it so much that if they did it anymore, people would start to question if there even was a Vista.