XP back on Dells -- uh, yipee?

"If it ain't the latest, it ain't the greatest" -- a consumer war cry we're all certainly very familiar with. Not so for Dell users apparently. According to the BBC, users "swamped" Dell's feedback site with a demand for the return of the ol' XP pre-load. In response, Dell has reversed their Vista-only policy which loaded Microsoft's latest onto nearly all Dell machines destined for home use. Why the outcry? It's not exactly clear. Analysts cited XP's familiarity and its ability to work with all the peripherals people have amassed. So, if you've been holding out for a Dell with XP, now's your chance... you know, in case you somehow missed it for the last 5 years.

[Thanks, Josh]

[Grey Acumen @ Apr 20th 2007 8:05AM]

From what we've heard at Best Buy, Vista only plays nice with Microsoft office programs. For programs like Adobe Photoshop there's apparently no support at all, though I've yet to confirm that myself.

[Gil @ Apr 20th 2007 8:18AM]

I've actually put this to the test.
Photoshop runs about the same.
Games run considerably faster (I know...WTF?) especially newer ones
Compilers seem to run slower

[Jordan @ Apr 20th 2007 8:02PM]

I've heard Best Buy sales people are unreliable and often only repeat what they've heard other sales staff say or what they need to say in order to sell you something expensive.

[Revrant2394 @ Apr 20th 2007 10:57AM]

...? No idea what Vista you're using, but the computer the family bought with Vista, a hefty 1,500, runs terribly, having built my own PC I know for certain that computer is up to spec, yet it can hardly handle any of the latest games, whereas my comparable PC handles F.E.A.R and HL2 on maximum settings just fine.

[Ben @ Apr 20th 2007 8:19AM]

Makes sense to me if there's no support. And from other articles such as this: http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/10/microsoft-vista-drm-tech-security-cz_bs_0212vista.html

..it's no wonder people don't want Vista. I will forgo Vista until something better comes along.

[Chris @ Apr 20th 2007 10:09AM]

"..it's no wonder people don't want Vista. I will forgo Vista until something better comes along."

Well let's see...Mac OS X Tiger has already been out for two years and Leopard is just around the corner. What was your excuse again?

[BobbyD @ May 16th 2007 11:48AM]

Something better HAS come along! It's Mac OSX which Vista is a poor copy of! The gap is about to widen even further with the soon to be released OSX 10.5 (Leopard) which will have features Vista users won't see for at least 5 years. And please don't say you're a "programmer" or code writter, or whatever, and you NEED a PC to do your work. Mac OSX is the fastest growing OS in scientific-medical research, mathmatics and business as well as UNIX based programming. That dead albatross around your neck is Windows. Cut yourself free with a Mac!

[James Smith @ Apr 20th 2007 12:45PM]

Mac's are for arrogant fools who barely know how to power their computer up. Ubuntu FTW!

[Tom @ Jun 17th 2007 3:23PM]

Mac OSX is itself a copy of GNOME.

[tekdroid @ Apr 20th 2007 8:25AM]

I've encountered one person that asked me to "put xp back on" after buying Vista. My guess it isn't an uncommon scenario.

[f00b4r @ Apr 20th 2007 8:28AM]

Vista Home Premium has been working fantastically on my Vaio for weeks now. No driver problems, no incompatible software (except for ZoneAlarm and WusikStation). Working on my old PC with XP feels like going back in time.. it just feels so dated now.

Why stick with the old now that all innovation and development will be happening on Vista from now on?

[tekdroid @ Apr 20th 2007 8:33AM]

Why stick with the old now that all innovation and development will be happening on Vista from now on?
----------
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_Vista#Criticism
Those are some reasons. Plus 'innovation' doesn't always go in the direction the people want it to. (ie. sometimes it only benefits the corporates)

[Magallanes @ Apr 20th 2007 4:58PM]

Why?.

because the exceptions.. in your case zonealarm (of course its' redundant)

[7of7 @ Apr 20th 2007 8:32AM]

Once again Dell makes the mistake of thinking a vocal minority equates to a majority. I'd wager 95% of people would rather have Vista but there are those 5%, the Neanderthals, that are too afraid to use current technology or have fallen for the FUD that seems to be all over the internet.

[Adolf @ Apr 21st 2007 11:12PM]

Maybe we should get rid of minorities then, huuh? I am looking forward to freely park in blue zones, yeaahhh

[F @ Apr 20th 2007 8:39AM]

OMG! I just figured it all out! Vista is the "New Coca-Cola" of the software world. Now everyone will be screaming for the "Coca-Cola Classic," or Windows XP.

[Alex @ Apr 20th 2007 8:46AM]

7of7, one issue there, is that that vocal minority is generally that that goes for their mid-to-top of the line offerings, which afaik have far higher margins; 3D designers, Hardcore gamers, professional buyers (not talking about the large-order clients, they order XP anyways) with XP-specific apps... so it's in Dell's interest to let them chose between XP and Vista till driver and application support firms up a little.

[Mighty Horse @ Apr 20th 2007 8:58AM]

I wish they'd have done this three weeks ago. I bought a new Dell w/ Vista Home Premium. Only took me 10 minutes to reach for my XP Pro disk. At least Dell gave me the reinstall CD in case I decide to try Vista again. But from what I saw, I didn't like it.

[K @ Apr 20th 2007 9:02AM]

I'm only using Vista Business at work. A scanner that worked fine under Windows XP no longer works on Vista.

There is no way I will be switching to Vista for home until there is more peripheral support. Why should I have to upgrade a perfect working inkjet printer or flatbed scanner? I know for the inkjet there are a few work arounds, but that's just crap. I could do it, but I am willing to bet the majority could not.

[buck @ Apr 20th 2007 9:10AM]

This won't last long...

It seems like everyone is releasing Vista software and driver updates now. They've had a long ass time to work on it, that's fo sho

[mj @ Apr 20th 2007 9:10AM]

Not all games work, including the popular Steam (Half-Life 2) and GameTap (digital on-demand service). Vista's system requirements are steeper. For example, for C&C3, they want more RAM and a better chip to run on Vista. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but the perception was created by MS with all their product choices and optional Aero, etc.

To put this in perspective, Apple's OSX got very comparable visual and search and security effects running on the equivalent of 5 year old PCs - but the most popular laptops can't run Vista, even months after release. So MS is doing something wrong.

Since no one actually owns Vista or XP anymore (just restore discs) and it costs and arm and a leg to buy separately, it's important to get XP preloaded if you want it. I've put off buying a second PC because I can't decide if XP's better speed will help me play games in the next 4 years or so. Some people say it's faster, EA says that it's slower, and others say no difference. This is why people have ps2's to play games...

[Aaron @ Apr 23rd 2007 7:23PM]

I use both Steam and GameTap all the time with absolutely no issues. I'm using Vista Ultimate.

For most tasks (games and otherwise), Vista has been faster for me. Some games are slightly slower, but most games are faster. I haven't found any that won't run at all.

Steeper system requirements? I guess. But if you actually care enough to be playing the latest games, then your computer is more than good enough, so it's non-issue.

[Slasher @ Apr 20th 2007 9:24AM]

I have a laptop in the shop that the owner wants xp back on. He bought Vista for it, but it's a Toshiba laptop and they aren't going to release vista drivers for that particular model.

[Frank @ Apr 20th 2007 9:30AM]

Like I told a buddy of mine, now is not a good time to be buying a PC. Vista is still too new so its going to have lots of bugs and incompatibilities. Plus Vista should only be running on a PC with at least 2GB of Ram. I would wait a year until all PCs will come with 2GB of Ram standard and Vista is polished.

[devwild @ Apr 20th 2007 9:32AM]

If you look at the selection of xp machines, you will notice they are mostly business class - the vast majority of businesses aren't touch vista for at least a year - this is a logical choice for Dell in that case.

[STEVE BALMER @ Apr 20th 2007 9:33AM]

ALL OF YOU ARE CRAZY. VISTA IS THE MOST INNOVATIVE, STABLE, SECURE, ORIGINAL OS OF ALL TIME. VISTA WILL CHANGE THE WORLD. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH IT. IT IS BETTER THAN OSX, WHICH IT DID NOT COPY AT ALL IN THE LEAST.

THE iPHONE IS OVER PRICED, AND NO ONE IS GOING TO BUY IT, EVER.

[The Grand Master @ Apr 20th 2007 11:15AM]

Hahahahahahahahahaha, did you do that monkey dance of your's after typing that Steve?

[STEVE BALMER @ Apr 20th 2007 1:20PM]

YEEAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!! WOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOO!!!
THREE WORDS:
I
LOVE
THIS
COMPANY
!

developers developers developers

Wow, I've got some sweaty pits going on.

[obiwan @ Apr 21st 2007 3:00AM]

That's funny!

[Jamie Marsden @ Apr 20th 2007 9:33AM]

I think people's attitude to Vista is really quite daft in many cases. The fact that it has higher system requirements than XP is normal, predictable, obvious etc. It is a new OS for PCs built in 2007-2012. When I bought XP, it didn't run very well on my then 5 year old PC. I wasn't surprised - it was an old PC.

Vista IS prettier, and there can be little rational argument about that. It is also a GUI for my computer, and what it looks like IS relevant - I have to look at it all day.

Even Symantec has conceded that it is the most secure OS available right now.

[Mathew @ Apr 20th 2007 9:34AM]

I'm using Vista on one laptop, and can easily see why Dell would do this. Vista is nice, but not good enough for professional workers yet. I've had issues with web plugins & activex things not working, some Cisco software has had issues, the security config is a burden I don't need, and let's face it, driver updates aren't there. I had to wait 2 weeks for Microsoft to update their own LaserMouse drivers, which is pathetic.

XP is stable, and you can't argue with that, Vista may not offer enough reason for some folks.

[RobM @ Apr 20th 2007 9:38AM]

It's a smart move. I was looking for a laptop about 6 weeks ago. When Dell I couldn't get a non-Vista laptop from Dell, I didn't call support. I didn't whine. I just didn't buy a Dell.

I'd bet Dell is offering XP because refusing to is costing them money. I know it cost them about $2k from me.

[D T @ Apr 20th 2007 9:59AM]

mj: you said that HL2 doesn't run on vista. ho ho ho.
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1697,2096945,00.asp

i can understand dell's move - after all they probably have a stock of XP licences left over and it doesn't cost them more to sell them off. in a business environment it might also make sense to stick with XP until all the legacy hardware either has drivers or are phased out.

i can hardly imagine any consumer who would want to stick with XP, though, especially on a new computer :p

[Ben @ Apr 20th 2007 11:59AM]

We're talking about the PC realm, not the Mac realm. You can't compare apples to oranges.

[Leonard Nimrod @ Apr 20th 2007 10:13AM]

I wish others would do this. I've had to remove Vista and install XP on about a half dozen notebooks and not one was a cakewalk. These OEMs aren't supplying XP drivers for these Vista loaded models so trying to find the correct drivers is very difficult scavenger hunt.

[Ndric @ Apr 20th 2007 10:28AM]

This comment system is pure garbage

[Revrant2394 @ Apr 20th 2007 10:59AM]

This is great, personally I think Gaming PCs should allow for XP, I'd say, for about a year and a half, with Consumer PCs, maybe six more months, HOPEFULLY by then these lazy developers will have made more software compatible with Vista, I'm a bit shocked at how developers have openly balked at making their products Vista compatible in time for launch, and even now.

[adam_anon @ Apr 20th 2007 11:25AM]

I just looked and Vista is still the only option for Dell's desktops:/ A.

[Chuckles McGee @ Apr 20th 2007 11:49AM]

It's still a fair request. I love Vista, and for me, with a RAM-loaded machine, Vista's far faster. But someone wanting to buy a budget PC would probably experience quite a lot of slowdowns in Vista compared to XP. This means they need to spend more for a product that can run Vista as fast as XP.

Operating systems really do have a fair amount of staying power; Windows Me or 2003-era machines can still run pretty much anything a typical user needs today- and the average user doesn't care that it's Word 2003 and not 2007. So sticking with XP on a new budget PC today, and upgrading in four years is certainly doable, although it violates my personal standards of bleeding-edgeness and inner nerdiness.

[X-Ravin @ Apr 20th 2007 12:10PM]

I've only had good luck with Vista, runs much better than XP and supports everything except my sound card, but that's just Creative being cheap about updating the drivers for older hardware.

[VRDrama @ Apr 20th 2007 12:22PM]

I just got a new Dell XPS M1210. Dell wouldn't allow me to have XP Pro SP2 loaded, even when I offered to pay extra. Spent a week trying to get wifi hotspots and remote desktop working. Not to mention Adobe! To top it off, the LoJac Vista drivers didn't work. Just sent them a note saying I wanted XP Pro SP2 loaded when I saw this article.

[Samuel @ Apr 20th 2007 12:37PM]

Why are Engadget posts always written in such an arrogant smart-a** fashion, and why are they idiotic, on top of that?

"So, if you've been holding out for a Dell with XP, now's your chance... you know, in case you somehow missed it for the last 5 years."

I have a client who happened to be replacing some old machines right when Vista came out and did not want Vista on the new machines. I had to buy them from Dell's outlet to get XP, and, otherwise, would have considered a different brand. Now that Dell is, again, offering XP, businesses that decide to purchase new machines with XP do not have to settle for refurbs.

[pøweruser @ Apr 20th 2007 1:32PM]

and ubuntu is for geeks who have a lot of free time inbetween shifts at white castle..

[James Smith @ Apr 20th 2007 1:43PM]

Oh I guess not only are Mac users arrogant, but ignorant as well. Every Mac user I've met, and even the Mac users who post comments on this site all act the same. They happily eat up all the shit Steve Jobs feeds them, then they go on to ramble about how much they love their overpriced, under-featured computers.

[lear @ Apr 20th 2007 1:12PM]

I'm actually glad to see this.

At a tech for a local university I would much rather support the devil (and vulnerabilities) we know then the one we don't.

It's kinda like how MS auto-updated out I.E. 7 as a security update and it was different then the one we were provided for testing.

All of our web based financel/instructional/HR webs apps stopped working.

(Well... the main campus did... we use Firefox in my little neck of the woods.)

Our plan doesn't call for the inclusion of Vista till a few more service packs roll out the door and it's had a lot more time to be tested by people who value whiz-bang over stability.

[Cappuccino Kid @ Apr 20th 2007 2:12PM]

James.. you're a clown.
Users like you think it's normal to reboot 5X a day.

[James Smith @ Apr 20th 2007 2:18PM]

I don't reboot my Ubuntu machine 5x a day. I usually leave it on for more that 5 days at a time.

[stinkbomb @ Apr 20th 2007 3:53PM]

So, is Ubuntu riddled with features?
The Macs I have experience with (especially the new) have more features than an off the shelf PC. As far as overpriced goes:
http://www.internet-nexus.com/2006/08/mac-pro-vs-dell-precision-price.htm
Audi's cost more than Hyndais,you get what you pay for. My wife has Dell laptop, and let me tell you, when it is time to replace, we will spend the little extra & get an Apple next time. That laptop has been a real piece of sh*t. Not to mention Windows getting infected on a daily basis, even with constant updating of virus protection.

[James Smith @ Apr 20th 2007 5:05PM]

Yes, Ubuntu has plenty of features. But why do you keep comparing Macs to Windows PCs? I think Windows PCs suck just as much as Macs except Windows users can at least admit Windows blows. Face it, Mac's are designed to be very proprietary and for people with little or no intelligence, I mean computer experience, at all.

[BobbyD @ May 16th 2007 12:16PM]

James, stop living in the past! Even the old tried and true "Macs are overpriced" argument doesn't hold water anymore, as has been demonstrated by several sources: Wired, CNET, etc. An apples to apples comparison (no pun intended) between PC and Intel-chip Macs will show you that---gasp!! Macs are a better buy!! Regarding your Macs are under featured, well lets see, I can do a 4 way video conference with my Mac--out of the box. I can burn all forms of disk media---out of the box. I can edit, color correct, crop, etc. still photos from my digital camera---out of the box. I can edit HD movies--out of the box. I can author DVD's (very easily)---out of the box. I can manage my music with the most powerful elegant music management software out there (iTunes)--out of the box. Oh yes, and I can program-compile UNIX programming in a better interface than anything else out there--out of the box. Couple that with about 200 other features that PC users are just now getting a glimpse of with Vista, and the hundreds of new features that they WON'T see for many more years when OSX 10.5-Leopard come out, and it makes you wonder how Microsoft and the PC makers keep fooling all you people.