British gov't to hit up Apple, Sony for crime-resistant gadgets

Here's a new angle on curbing the thievery that's spiked England's petty crime rates up in recent years: don't try to solve society's ills with progressive social programs to make sure youth get and stay on the right track; or ensure greater levels of police protection; just make sure companies like Apple and Sony build anti-theft countermeasures into their gadgets. At least that's the plan backed British Home Secretary John Reid, who is calling for a summit to develop innovative new methods to keep thugs from swiping shiny new toys from the hard-working hands of legit buyers. We're sure Apple and Sony can both come up with some interesting new shutdown / lockoff / phone-home features (that might also compromise end-user privacy), but nothin' says lovin' like bureaucrats solving society's ills by trying their hands at consumer electronics design.

[J. Vicuña @ Apr 29th 2007 3:17PM]

So, Alan Moore was right. They're turning the UK into the big police state of the western world.

[Karl @ Apr 29th 2007 6:18PM]

Exactly. How dare they stop crime!

[kingofwale @ Apr 29th 2007 3:17PM]

what do they want? some kind of homing device?

How about just better educate your citizens? or for god's sake, better policing.

[netgem21 @ Apr 29th 2007 3:28PM]

Is it me or do the two people either side of the bald guy look like the prime minister and Sebastian out of Little Britain?

[The Grand Master @ Apr 29th 2007 3:49PM]

Hahahahahaha, you're so right!

The two of them could probably govern the country better though, which is the worrying thing...

[The Grand Master @ Apr 29th 2007 3:49PM]

Hahahahahaha, you're so right!

The two characters could probably govern the country better though, which is the worrying thing...

[Vanillacide @ Apr 29th 2007 3:29PM]

Yeah, the socialists (currently) in power in UK are trying by many means to turn the UK into a politically-correct police-state with limited rights; stories like this highlight to rest of the work the rubbish from these clowns that we have to put up with every day in UK.

Hopefully their high tax, control freakery, war mongering, thought police ways will soon be at an end.

[The Grand Master @ Apr 29th 2007 3:47PM]

God the government are clowns.
Really can't wait till I can gtfo, only 2 more years, then I can go to Uni wherever I want.

The UK is such a joke right now, the country is stewing in its own ruin and we have to stick with the Labour government for another 2 years.

I hate this country.

[Jeff Lewis @ Apr 29th 2007 3:54PM]

Ummm.. I'd recommend that the Engadget staff limit their comments to things they know about...

The US has one of the highest incarceration rates in the world - and one of the highest crime rates as well. I agree that the UK should fix the social conditions that lead to crime... but having a Yank chide the UK on that is like a crook criticising gun control laws...

Oh - and Vanillacide, Blair and Co 'socialists'? You might have noticed that Bush and Co (ie: the neo-conservatives - Blair's good friends and moral models) are trying to pull the same thing.

It's the liberals and socialists (you know - those evil groups like the ACLU) who are trying to STOP them.

[Vanillacide @ Apr 29th 2007 4:12PM]

@Jeff Lewis

Don't confuse your US terms of reference with the rest of the world. They are high tax and high spend red in tooth and claw socialists; remember the Soviet Union was a socialist authoritarian state. What you mean (in English English) is libertarian, and these clowns are far from that. Imagine the neo-cons policies on civil liberties but implemented in education, health, transport, taxes, and everything under their control and you have UK today; but with a PC spin, of "we're doing it for your own good".

Alan Moore was not far wrong.

[Ryan Block @ Apr 29th 2007 5:30PM]

I'm not letting the US off the hook. I think our justice system is among the most perverted and broken in the western world at this point -- but that doesn't make this story any less ridiculous.

[PEZ @ Apr 29th 2007 3:59PM]

Wow, the UK is becoming as shitty as the USA now. Whats next? Every male citizen bha sto serve in the local police department for one year minimum? And, not carry a weapon? YAY!

[jan rosencrantz @ Apr 29th 2007 4:13PM]

Another fine example of how absolutely arse the British Govt. has become.

Lib Dems for me, I think.....

[ssuk @ Apr 29th 2007 4:34PM]

If the UK tried to make new legislation to stop crime, we'd be shot down one way or another. It'd be great if we were like america and did whatever the fuck we wanted without caring for anyone effected, huh?

[jono @ Apr 29th 2007 5:33PM]

Conservative are right wing? Labour are left wing? They're neither, just a bunch of muppets. Soon as i finish my Masters im outta here

[gfhfghfghfgh @ Apr 29th 2007 5:36PM]

fortunately, not everyone in the world is as irrationally opposing legislation as the average American is...

[WillTheSecond @ Apr 29th 2007 6:25PM]

"Don't confuse your US terms of reference with the rest of the world. They are high tax and high spend red in tooth and claw socialists; remember the Soviet Union was a socialist authoritarian state. What you mean (in English English) is libertarian, and these clowns are far from that. Imagine the neo-cons policies on civil liberties but implemented in education, health, transport, taxes, and everything under their control and you have UK today; but with a PC spin, of "we're doing it for your own good".

Alan Moore was not far wrong."

Labour are not socialists. In the first half in the 20th century they were a socialist inspired movement, but they have never actually been a socialist party as such, plus now they've adapted (for better or worse) to the centrist political landscape and become essentially neo-liberal (i.e. Thatcherite).

UK has a higher rate of tax because we have a free health service, and by the way, the US school system is state funded, just like the UK one, and no, the transport system public actually, I wish it was, because the public transport systems in Italy and France are far better than the privatized UK system. You seem a little ignorant, my friend.

As for the story, yes, John Reid (pictured) is a bit of a joke as a minister, really, he's been shuffled from department to department by Blair like a pack of cards from a dodgy deck that I call New Labour. Oh, and f**k DRM and its attempt and corporate domination, by the way (if you're wondering, it's the reason we have region coding).

[Vanillacide @ Apr 29th 2007 7:32PM]

"UK has a higher rate of tax because we have a free health service, and by the way, the US school system is state funded, just like the UK one, and no, the transport system public actually, I wish it was, because the public transport systems in Italy and France are far better than the privatized UK system. You seem a little ignorant, my friend."

UK had a free health service long before tax rises reached the current 38% of GDP, the highest in the history of the nation, under current government.

For the first time in British history the average wage of state/public employees has overtaken average wage of private industry employees, the people who's tax pays the wages of the state/public employees.

The UK currently has highest ratio of state/public employees to private industry in country's history, highest area is over 60% state/public employees to private industry.

None of which seems neo-liberal behaviour to me.

Neither does putting onus on manufactures of shiny consumer goods to solve the ills of society, is this what Tony Blair meant when he said "Tough on the causes of crime"?

[Rich @ Apr 30th 2007 7:23AM]

The reason taxes in the UK are so high is becasue we've got so manyh fecking civil servants compiling pointless statistics and targets. And more civil servants counting those civil servants, compiling pointless statistics and targets.

Most of the tx that's taken from me goes to paying for things I don't want. Nor ever will want. It would be nice if this government didn't want to control every little aspect of my life. And then count and measure it. Sadly they do, and if for some reason they're still around after the next election, then I think it's time for me to move...

[Karl @ Apr 29th 2007 6:33PM]

I don't usually comment on some Engadget articles that I find to be lacking, but this one hits close to home.

Ryan, you've got the point wrong here. It's that simple. What the meeting between Reid and the consumer electronics makers is about is stopping crime. That's it. And it's not compensating for antisocial behaviour laws, because, not that I would expect you to know much about this, Labour's antisocial behaviour laws, opposed by both the lib-dems and the conservatives, are bringing crime down quite substantially. We have record low numbers of violent crime, but indeed there still is some crime. That's quite normal. But this is not a political debate.

It is a good thing that the Labour government is working with companies, and informing them of the sorts of issues that the British people want resolved. The biggest part of tackling crime is tackling the causes of crime, and with electronics that cause is their market value. By working with companies to try and create a standard lock-down procedure for reported stolen goods, thieves no longer have a market to sell to - the devices will get bricked, and that's the end of it. By removing the incentive to steal the devices, they're trying to tackle the fact that they do get stolen.

So you see, this development is not in place of antisocial behaviour laws, it is part of them. And, as somebody who has been affected by muggings and had valuable gadgets stolen, I really do welcome this change. I found it intolerable how hard it was to lock my phone's IMEI when that got stolen, and I really would like to see better anti-theft technology today.

Take iPods, for example - say each iPod had a GUID (globally unique identifier), and that was registered with Apple. Then, if your iPod gets plugged in to another machine, iTunes will check the ID, find that it is flagged by the police, and take it from there. And it doesn't even have to brick the device - it could just put you in contact with the police, who could offer rewards for information about who sold you the device and give it back to its rightful owner. It sounds stupid that the police would pay for this, but they already do pay compensation for criminal injuries, and considering the potential of such a system, it would be a worthwhile investment.

[The Grand Master @ Apr 29th 2007 7:03PM]

'The biggest part of tackling crime is tackling the causes of crime', surely that would be the moral degeneration in society, not Apple and Sony selling good, right?

All that stuff about a GUID, I could see that happening, but I would find it a MASSIVE invasion of privacy!
Why not tag everything we buy? How about that camera you bought, or your computer, its a good idea in principle, but when you start tracking everyone and everything, that is where things get a bit iffy.

As long as you have a 'good' government in power (not that I'm necessarily suggesting labour is that...) people might stand for that sort of monitoring, but when it starts being used to track movements or activities, its not going to be popular.

[Karl @ Apr 29th 2007 7:27PM]

"surely that would be the moral degeneration in society, not Apple and Sony selling good, right?"

Partly. But there isn't one simple cause. Poverty is one of the big ones, though, and the money thieves can make from stolen electronics is a big incentive to participate on crime.

"but I would find it a MASSIVE invasion of privacy!
Why not tag everything we buy? How about that camera you bought, or your computer, its a good idea in principle, but when you start tracking everyone and everything, that is where things get a bit iffy."

I certainly wouldn't. What sort of information does it have about you? A random number that is linked to your iPod, and whether or not it's been reported stolen. I don't see a problem with that. And yes, if it was extended to other devices, it would be a great system. There's no tracking - it's not like there's a homing device and they can see where you are, and it's not like anybody cares to watch where you're going all day. And it's not as if the system has any information about you - just about a device you own, and the current status of that device (stolen/not stolen).

I submitted this idea as iPod feedback to Apple. I don't know if they'd take it, but I certainly see a lot more people having confidence in buying expensive things like iPods if there's an infrastructure to prevent its theft. That's a good thing for the economy, and a good thing for society. That's why I'm glad to see the government become active and ask companies to work on anti-theft systems. The solution I proposed is nothing revolutionary, yet nobody has thought to implement it yet.

[BIll @ Apr 30th 2007 1:59PM]

For one thing, stop disarming your citizens so that the thugs can run rampant. Violent crime has soared and I'm sure the lesser ones have followed.

[l2k @ Apr 29th 2007 8:21PM]

I could add a lengthy philosophical comment on the nature of freedom and the ability of power to abused and be corrupting - I could, but I won't, because I can sum it all up by just seconding what was already said:"It looks like Alan Moore was right."

[Gizmo @ Apr 29th 2007 9:37PM]

I left the UK 5 years ago, just for the reasons such as this. Maybe the UK and other "developed" countries should look to alternative ways to curb crime. How about cutting off the hand? Then deny them state funded benefits. Extreme i know, but it would certainly make people think before they do something.

[John Robinson @ Apr 29th 2007 10:56PM]

"Record low numbers of violent crime"???? Methinks somebody has been drinking from the Labour Water Cooler.
Whereas I am not in principle against a system that allows you to track your stolen goodies, safer streets with more good old-fashioned actual Policemen on the beat would seem to be more logical. Not more cameras, either mute or the new ones with "big brother" type voices that warn you about your bad behavior, just plain old cops. Of course, passing the buck to Apple & Sony is just so much easier than freeing up PC Plod who unfortunately these days spends 90% of his time on paperwork. Trace back the rise in crime to the day the government turned every civil servant into report wielding bureaucrats - cause & effect or effect & cause???

[obiwan @ Apr 30th 2007 1:32AM]

1) I think it's neat when a gadget forum goes all political (and not in the MS vs. Apple vs. Linux way). It's very exciting to see these views.

2) Biometric locks are dumb. People have already lost hands and fingers to biometrically locked cars.

3) Any other technologically derived system will be hacked within a short period of time, leaving the honest folks with a further invasion of privacy.

3b) Hm. Perhaps there's a terrorist plot here. The terrorists storm Apple's campus, gain access to the iPod tracking data, then monitor the President's (or PM's, whoever) every move, facilitating an easy grab/kill...

Ooooh, movie plot!

[gikku @ Apr 30th 2007 2:13AM]

why don't just sentance criminals to 7 years transportation to Gliese 581 c.

or they could try legislating happiness? Happiness is a stolen Sony Viao, (so you can buy a MacBook).

[Rick @ Apr 30th 2007 2:21AM]

a password, woo hoo!

[fsdsdf @ Apr 30th 2007 3:45AM]

exactly. all this bullshit about "tracking" in the comments here is obviously nonsense.

what they are trying to do is obviously the same thing they did to in-car cd players.

[tekdroid @ Apr 30th 2007 4:11AM]

If I had an iPod, I'd want it stolen.

[дамјан @ Apr 30th 2007 10:09AM]

I bet Apple and Sony will protest this as much loudly as they can, while at the same time it was probably their idea ...

[jerrt @ Apr 30th 2007 9:56AM]

i had a playstation and many hours of game saves stolen from me one day and ever since then i've been working on a plan to recover items like that. the best idea i have come up with so far mixes a falcon tracking unit with my ps2 [or my ps3 now], rig it so that it charges an internal battery whenever the unit is plugged in and then allow for me to use the falcon tracking rig to find it if it ever gets ganked. as long as it doesn't travel too far too fast, you could quickly drive around town and narrow down its location.

granted this wouldn't work for smaller items, but my ps3 needs it the worst. [:

[Ron Larson @ Apr 30th 2007 10:27AM]

Rather than have the police do their job, they burden the public with more expense. here in Western Australia, their solution to car theft was to pass a law requiring all car owners to install demobilizers. How about instead getting the police off their asses and start busting the car thieves?

Oh yea, I forgot. The are on the take with theft rings and are too busy protecting their precious speed cameras.

[WillTheSecond @ Apr 30th 2007 12:44PM]

"UK had a free health service long before tax rises reached the current 38% of GDP, the highest in the history of the nation, under current government.

For the first time in British history the average wage of state/public employees has overtaken average wage of private industry employees, the people who's tax pays the wages of the state/public employees.

The UK currently has highest ratio of state/public employees to private industry in country's history, highest area is over 60% state/public employees to private industry.

None of which seems neo-liberal behaviour to me.

Neither does putting onus on manufactures of shiny consumer goods to solve the ills of society, is this what Tony Blair meant when he said "Tough on the causes of crime"?"

Fair enough: I should not have used the word 'ignorant' you are clearly well informed. However, while New Labour are probably not as neo-liberal as Thatcher, nevertheless, the have not tried to re-nationalise any of the industries she privatised in the 80s.

Plus they have gone further than she did, for instance by instituting privately funded NHS trusts and licensing out the work of the public sector to private companies (hospital cleaners and so on) and lets not forget privately funded City Academies and their supposed back-door-selection, this is without noting the fact that a great deal of school canteens are now run by private companies.

I'm also willing to bet that if the average wage is a mean number (rather than the mode, in which case I may be incorrect here) that it is Civil Servants, Doctors (the BMA is a very powerful lobby group in Whitehall after all) and other high-ups whose wages are astronomically larger than other public sector workers (particularly nurses, I believe, and some if not a great many teachers) that accounts for the difference between public and private. That is an issue with both Labour's attitude and the system of bureaucracy we have in the UK.

Plus, I am a private sector worker (well, I have a part time job at Sainsbury's while I'm a student) and it pays S**t. There is very little unionisation in the private sector because of course it's seen as anti corporate, which of course it is, because unions exist to challenge the authority of those who own the means of production and promote worker rights. The government has a mandate to allow this (unless you're Thatcher, so in this respect, yes, New Labour are different, of course they are) because the government is a democratic organisation, corporations will never give their workers fair treatment the same way the government does because only rarely do they become accountable (i.e. they are dictatorships).

Here endeth the rant.