We know that it's a bit tired to compare every single new DAP that hits the market to one of Apple's babies, but one look at the screenless, postage-stamp-sized
Zen Stone is all it takes to discover where Creative got the design inspiration for its latest player. At 18.3 grams, the Stone is slightly heavier than the
2G shuffle -- it seems Creative was more concerned with keeping prices low than weight down, as the 1GB, clip-equipped player will retail for just $40 when it hits shelves on the 14th. Different colors and skins allow for some degree of personalization, and the claimed 10-hour battery life should help you get through most of the 250 or so songs you'll be able to store on the non-expandable memory. Doesn't look like we've got an iPod-killer here, but with accessories such as the
TravelSound Zen Stone dock going for only 40 bucks as well, Creative's latest "me-too" will likely fall into a comfortable niche.
posted May 3rd 2007 8:55AM
I think Creative's efforts at penetrating the iPod shiffle market might... wait for it... sink like a Stone? Muhr!
it almost looks like something i recognise but i just cant place it ! hhmmm
no wonder creative are refocusing on ipod accessories lol
"Doesn't look like we've got an iPod-killer here..."
---------
Apparently it's a Mass Storage-Class (MSC) device for music, so the fact that you can drag n drop music onto it without clucky software is a plus over the iPod Shuffle, IMO. Design seems decent with its rounded corners, too.
Of course no removable batt or flash is sub-par, but expected, unfortunately.
From the FAQ:
http://au.creative.com/GetStarted/ZENStone/faqs.asp#faq_0_13
14. Can I use my player as a portable data storage device?
Yes, you can. Your player is recognized as a removable disk by your computer. You can use Windows Explorer to transfer files (including music tracks) to your player. Please note that copy protected WMA files will not play on your player if they were transferred using Windows Explorer.
So I guess Creative's whole statement from a couple of years ago saying they'd be going after the iPod full force has been abandoned?
They did go after it. Their products are...get this...BETTER and CHEAPER...problem is, people buy iPods like lemmings.
I want to know how this compares to the shuffle in audio quality. I'm in the market for a small player like this but the shuffle is too overpriced for what you get, I find.
i just purchased a 2G Shuffle after 2 years with my 1G Shuffle. Fantastic product! Audio is clear and goes loud (louder than I need for sure). The primary reason I bought the 2G Shuffle was for Swimman's waterproofing technology. I wanted to use it while I'm making laps in the pool. On top of that Apple makes a fantastic product - my 1G shuffle is still going strong, but being used by my wife.
And all this nonsense about "no need for clunky software" ... iTunes isn't the clunky software - it's the other guys'.
and seriously - who the heck still organizes their music collection without some sort of music database program?
____
http://twibe.com
Its from a company named "CREATIVE"! How ironic!
Kinda sounds like the OS market to me.....
This will compete with the Shuffle on price, obviously... but it probably won't be competing for the crown anytime soon. :)
Let it be know that they will never be an iPod killer. Why? Some people refuse to look outside the box, and judge a product on its merits. The Stone is an extremely attractive alternative to the Apple's iPod-nano, both in appearance and price.
You are correct - and that is exactly why the Mac has such a small market share. If people took the time to compare, instead of just buying the cheapest computer at Wal Mart running a shoddy OS, the Mac market share would be quadruple what it is now. At least Apple gets to enjoy iPod success due to that mindset, and I for one am happy for them.
How many ways can you design a ~1 square inch player?
Engadget is known for calling everything that is in any rectangular shape whatsoever a total rip off the iPod. It's like there were no shapes before the iPod, the iPod is the king of the trash dump.
Seriously, Creative once again made a better player than Apple, and get dissed by the Apple lovers.
Let's get it straight. Apple copied Samsung's superior clip-on mp3 player, which is mass storage and has an LCD. I just hope companies keep producing these types of mp3 players because I prefer them for working out.
More than 2 years ago... Creative CEO dissed Apple for the shuffle.. and now they created a 7 year old product that cannot even compete with Chinese brands and I quote "Even the cheap, cheap Chinese brand today has display and has FM."
Haha!
http://www.engadget.com/2005/01/12/creatives-ceo-disses-the-ipod-shuffle-thems-fightin-words/
He said
We're expecting a good fight but they're coming out with something that's five generations older. It's our first generation MuVo One product feature, without display, just have a (shuffle feature). We had that — that's a four-year-old product. So I think the whole industry will just laugh at it, because the flash people — it's worse than the cheapest Chinese player. Even the cheap, cheap Chinese brand today has display and has FM. They don't have this kind of thing, and they expect to come out with a fight; I think it's a non-starter to begin with.
.......... who's we?
haggis - not sure about your question, but click on the engadget link I posted.
"We" refers to Creative and the paragraph I posted came from the CEO of Creative.
This would have been a great product if it had AAC support. I guess they think it is wiser to go after the WMA crowd (population = dozens).
By the way, MSC?? What is this, 2000? You really want to drag files from your hard drive to a player?? That is REALLY easier than smart-tagging and automatic syncing? Is this in the same universe where WMA is a viable codec and market?
By the way, MSC?? What is this, 2000? You really want to drag files from your hard drive to a player??
-----------
Absolutely. Do you really want to load software on every machine you have just so you can get music on or OFF it? (which Apple, for instance, doesn't let you do?). Music should be treated just like data files.
If you want, you can also load Creative's software if you want more. Great thing is it's not mandatory to load the software just to get music on there. Bring it to any computer and virtually any OS and get your music on and off it. They way it should be, IMO.
MSC for me too. I'd hate to install any kind of special software just to transfer data, and then be restricted etc. A player without MSC = not worth buying, no matter how good it is.
This thing looks great in black. No iPod can compete with it (and that's quite a lot, I like Apples design). Now if the other Creatives would look as good as the Stone... I wouldn't want to miss a display, but some people don't mind, even I somehow. Most of the time I'm only using the remote of my player.
actually for me, i would rather have a msc but also a great music data base software to transfer music. I think most people by now have so much digital music it would be difficult for them to drag and drop music from hard drive to the player.
wait, there is such a player exist. it is the ipod shuffle. just my view. and i am not a window or creative or apple fanboy since i own stuff and use stuff from all three company.
-hamproof- We had that — that's a four-year-old product.
still tryin to find out who we is??
Video of the Zen Stone vs. Shuffle here: http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/4216308.html
the standard usb connector on the Stone is great. Me like. If I were in the market for a Shuffle-like displayless device, I know which one I'd buy...
Looks like a great little disposable MP3 player I can use for the Gym. Oh wait, I don't work out. Sorry Creative.
Yeah, I know what you mean. It took me five hours to load itunes onto my computer, and apple makes syncing such a pain! It takes a whole hour just to add five songs! Why can't apple make things so they just work easily?
Btw, I believe the original small size player that actually works is mobiblu with your cube (1"x1"x1").
http://www.mobibluamerica.com/cube2.html
Oled display, pendant style, FM, MSC.
Some people (myself included), would not buy player w/o MSC. We like to organize our own songs in folders. Don't need something like ITunes that renamed all of our files and putting them all over.
Guess it is like people who like Unix/Linux vs. WinXP vs. OSX. I can't live w/o a prompt.
the ipod is killing its self slowly anyway wont be long before they steal..... i mean innovate more SHIT!
WORD!
tekdroid - if you are looking for a player with direct USB connector, Sandisk already has a player that came out a few weeks ago.
http://sandisk.com/Products/Catalog(1226)-SanDisk_Sansa_Express_MP3_Players.aspx
OLED, FM, microSD expandable.
3.1 x 1.0 x .65 in
(78.74 x 25.4 x 16.51mm)
vs (zen stone)
53.67 x 35.34 x 12.82 mm
OH YEAH.... but its not an ipod, its shit!!!!!!
"Seriously, Creative once again made a better player than Apple, and get dissed by the Apple lovers."
In other words, the buying public?
YEAH MAN! THIS THING CAME FROM A COMPANY CALLED "CREATIVE" BASED ON WHAT I SAW OF THE STONE.. IT DOESNT RESEMBLE ANY CREATIVITY COMPARED TO APPLE!.. JUST LOOK AT IT! ITS IPOD SHUFFLE WITH ROUNDED EDGES! HAAHAH... stupid company
yes! stupid company then why did apple copy them in the first place !!!
oh yes thats right creative came out first how does that make them stupid!!!
By the way, MSC?? What is this, 2000? You really want to drag files from your hard drive to a player?? That is REALLY easier than smart-tagging and automatic syncing? Is this in the same universe where WMA is a viable codec and market?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Communism is also great right? Who needs freedom when you can be told what to do!
"In other words, the buying public"
like who dumb people!
too dumb to know what an mp3player is!!!
how the world does this even *remotely* look like a Shuffle?? different colour, different shape, different finish... sure it's not very creatively (har har) designed but lets judge a product on *its own merits*.
My family owns an iPod, a Creative Zen nano, and a cheap chinese MP3 player. We do not violate copyrights or do anything else legally questionable with them.
In real life, USB and drag'n'drop capability is what matters. Compatibility is what counts!
If I want to get a song from a friend (I have two friends with recording studios in their homes) or if I want to move music to or from my Fedora machine, my wife's winXP MCE laptop, or my 10-year-old's Ubuntu machine, or whatever (we have a mac mini too) I don't want to putz around with loading drivers, fighting DRM, or loading iTunes or WinAMP. I just want to move the music, I don't want to load and maintain software. It's supposed to be a tool; I don't want to have to forge a hammer in order to drive a nail!
The Zen player is our favorite, but only because the chinese cheapie has limited memory. If it had as much storage as the Zen we'd all like it best - it shows up as a USB stick on any OS or hardware.
ipodfanboys cant do that coz it involves thinking
dangerous things can happen like realizing that ipods are old news!!!
Yeah, and you should be the one pointing out people for "not thinking"
iPods will be the king of the heap for a long time, deal with it. IF you are concerned about inferior products being more popular than superior versions, I sure hope you aren't using Windows!
you know you have a secret man-crush on Steve Jobs, just admit it.
If it's anything like the Zen Micro I had (and the photo version my niece had) then it'll lock-up after 2 days and never work again. Creative sucks donkey poop big time.
Creative has certainly come up with products to compete strongly with apple. Their problem is providing support and firmware upgrades that solve problems instead of creating more. I have a zen micro that my computer simply won't recognize. It is a widespread problem and creative has done nothing to resolve it. Most users are forced to use firmware that is going on three years old at this point. They do not provide proper support to their customers, and that is why they can't win. I'll never purchase another product from them.
your steves gimp, just admit it.
That's an interesting point about whether special music software is necessary. I think Itunes is necessary for most people, but not because it makes things _that_ simple.
It's necessary because Windows is worse. It has no features for tagging or even labeling. Most of all, MS treats everything differently. The mail app wasn't integrated with Windows after the first version, the calendar app came separately between Win95 and WinXP, and the music software is this huge monstrosity, even though there are extensions to view music files in explorer. It's this huge labyrinth that most people simply can't use efficiently.
If all you have is a shuffle or pebble or whatever this is called, maybe you have so little music that dragging and dropping is ok. But for most of us, I don't think it works. Having software that randomly selects music to load is perfect, actually.
@mj
What, exactly, are you on? Windows Media Player isn't their "music" program, it's a full media suite, capable of video and audio playback, device syncing, music store integration and online streams. For Apple, you need iTunes, a lumbering hulk of a music database, and QuickTime, something that attempts pretty much every time it boots up to highjack associated media types to be defaulted to itself, to do that. No thanks. I'll stick with WMP, and if I felt like changing, I would just set it as a restricted program on the system by simply going to the Start Menu and clicking "set program access and defaults"--I know, huge step.
As for the "labyrinth" of the OS, yeah, huge labyrinth, seeing as the "My Music" folder is defaulted to display the list of songs in "details" columns view so you can sort by artist, song name, track, album, genre, year or whatever else you feel like throwing in there. Tags and labels aren't an invention of iTunes, they're integrated into the .mp3 format. You can edit them from Explorer, or you can do it in Windows Media Player by point-and-click on the tag you want to edit. Yes, so hard.
What do you take people for?
its not about creative wining its about letting people know that ipods are boring
be original in life be your self
dont just be another gimp to jobs propganda to the western world the apple is best
when its clearly not!
Do you need to use your music player to define your originality?
I really don't get how/why Creative expects to compete on price so aggressively. Apple is the volume player in the market, meaning they are the ones who can afford to be a loss leader. (this also runs counter to their design philosophy, and so they don't do it.).
The stone may look like a decent shuffle alternative at a glance, but at that price point they are cutting corners somewhere. It may be in the firmware support, customer support, or the quality of plastics and molding they are using, or the physical button connectors, the manufacturing tolerances, etc. etc. Really, its a combination of these effects.
These are the details that [when compromised] make a product feel cheap, and these are the same details that Apple scrutinizes, and obsesses over until their product gleams by comparison.
When you analyze the minutia of each player side by side, you can see the attention to detail that Apple puts in their products. How do the various materials interface? What finish have they used? How do the button switches feel? How is the weight distributed? How do the ports work? How tight are the manufacturing tolerances? Apple agonizes over these details while the competition contracts the stuff out.
Consumers may be fat, stupid, ugly, whatever, but they pick up on these details instantly. When they have a Stone and a Shuffle sitting next to each other at Best Buy, they can see and feel the differences between the products, and that also has an effect on their buying decisions.
Apple spends a ton of money/time/resources on their design. Their products cost a lot more to manufacture. But, they also charge high prices and have nice fat margins on their iPods. It is clearly a winning strategy, and one that the competition either can't, or refuses to emulate.
Having worked with and around thousands of iPods, I was literally stunned the first time I held a Zune. I had no idea it was put together so poorly; you can't really tell from the pictures.
*stands and claps* bravo, bravo.
You say that Creative must be cutting corners by selling so cheap, but then mention Apple's fat margins on iPods. You've just given a great reason why this player may not in fact be skimping.
Apple have not only convinced the public it's ok to pay that much for a device, but also that something that costs less *must* be inferior. My Creative player has totally solid construction, a removable battery, and superior sound quality to any iPod I've ever heard (given the same headphones).
I have no reason to believe that a $40 player would be of the same quality, but the price ratio between mine and its competitor (Mini/Nano) is the same as that of the Stone to the Shuffle, so I have no reason *not* to believe that it'll be quality either.
MSC works for me. I can move my files at will and unencumbered. On my work machine where they have it locked down so that I wouldn't even be able to install iTunes if I wanted to, I can still listen to the music that I want to.
First, Creative ripped off the i-pod.
Now Creative, ripps off the ipod shuffle.
Maybe the company should be called:
"NON-Creative"
Hey GioNYC, If i remember correctly, Creative had a MuVo 64MB Shuffle player in 1999. Also, in 2000 Creative launched the NOMAD Jukebox 6GB 13 months before the first gen iPod. Do me a favor, research before you speak.
Sure you can "neatly" organize your music in folders in Explorer (never-mind that iTunes can organize music into folders, playlists and smart playlists too).
But what happens when you play your neatly organized music on the Zen Stone? It plays them sequentially only in ALPHANUMERIC ORDER!!.
http://au.creative.com/GetStarted/ZENStone/faqs.asp#faq_0_9
The only way to play music in the order you want on the Zen Stone is to add numbers to the beginning of filenames! With iTunes and the iPod shuffle, you can reorder the music the way you want, either automatically by album, artist etc. or manually in any arbitrary order you want.
So having to add numbers to filenames is less clunky than using iTunes? Even if you use the Creative software, the Zen Stone will still play music only in alphanumeric order...
And if you really want to move music off the iPod shuffle into any computer, just keep a copy of YamiPod or other similar utilities on the disk part of the iPod and just run it from there, no need to install anything on the host computer.
Lastly, this player doesn't support AAC nor PlayforSure tunes!
Where's the clip?
I was just about to ask the same thing.
MSC is a no-go because it doesn't keep track of playcount, among other things. Proper metadata, smart playlists and so forth are far more important to me than my MP3 player's being just another mass-storage device.
I think the majority of regular users prefer something like iTunes. And people with massive music libraries do, too. MPC support may be nice for some but it's hardly a deal-breaker.
There is an tv advert as well: http://www.youtube.com/findyourzen
they need to focus on pmps more like zvm and zvw
People use Apple products to enjoy what they do, either work or play. Most people like iPod because it lets them enjoy their music without too much thinking and hassle, unlike most other players and their bundled softwares. For most people, the more effortless and simple this process can be, the better. There are more important things in our lives to use our brain power on, but not when we try to relax with our music. This is the reason why a music player with more features does not translate into a better product when PEOPLE start using it.
People do not use Apple to enjoy what they do, or because there is no thinking required. Most use the IPod because they do not know what else is out there. Apple snatched Creative's interface, threw it in a different shell, and spewed out advertisements. Advertising is the only thing that beat out Creative or any other company. The IPod is not as good as most players, it is just what people know. Most people think that "IPod" means the samething as MP3 player, and do not realize it is just a brand.
oooooh, i want to put one of these right next to my Sony Bean!
remember that song:
Beans and stones, beans and stones
all i want in my pocket are some beans and stones!
Cheaper and better than iPod?!
Haaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaahaaahaaaaahaaaaaa!
iPod shuffle (including dock) $79
Zen Stone $40 + dock $40....... hmm my math says that's $80...
Highly machined aluminum vs. cheap-azz plastic.. =
Fanboi morons.
Oh... no!!! Creative's now the new iPod clone-maker! I feared that their ZEN Stone would be somewhat un-'creative'... Argh! Just a year ago, everyone was cheering on this company as their had the "Best" product of "CES", the ZEN Vision:M. Where the f*** are they now? Oh...god... they're doomed. Better be a domestic product; oris it because (no offence) most Singaporeans are related to the Chinese, who are known for making lookalikes, or should I call them "iPod-wannabes"?
I don't understand why a simple cheap mp3 player can get so much attention from all these Apple fans... If Apple products are so good why must we be reminded every time a competitor brings out a product? Leave the promotion to Apple, enjoy your Ipods and leave the comments threads of Creative products relevent to Creative products! I've used both... They're both very good.
As for the Stone... Its a good cheap player... Ideal for the kids in its funky colours... But I personally couldn't live without a screen.
Awesome little player! Nice and simple.
All I need now is an excuse to buy one..
The thing that kills me is the CEO of Creative said more than 2 years ago that the Shuffle is cheap cheap cheap and it can't even compete with the chinese mp3 players.
I'm including the link again here:
http://www.engadget.com/2005/01/12/creatives-ceo-disses-the-ipod-shuffle-thems-fightin-words/
Now they (creative) come out with a player they dissed 2 years ago? A player w/o a screen, no FM?
I hate IPods for ITunes. Sure I can run rockbox on it but out the box I like to organize songs the way I want to. I want to see folders/directories with songs named the way I named them.
Wife bought me 60GB IPod video and $30?? more for the FM hardware remote thingy. She's using it now and I'm using Sansa E series.
My beef is Creative came out with a product 7 years after Muvo w/ no display after dissing Apple for Shuffle 2 years ago.
Well, 7 years ago markets were NOT ready for any kind of player. Now they are.
I see.. 7 years ago amidst all the crappy chinese, decent korean and ok Singaporean players, where almost all of them have at least a screen, you are telling me they prefer one w/o a screen to display the song name??
I hope you were being sarcastic in your remark Mitsui.
Fact remains, Creative CEO disses Shuffle saying his company already have a product like that and it's called the Muvo which came out 2 years before Shuffle. So, now after 7 years, Creative sees the light and figures the market can handle a player w/o a screen now, like the Shuffle.
"Creatives" main problem is that their products are _not_ better than the iPods, and many of them aren't even cheaper. It's been like this ever since the iPod 1.0.
Anyway, I'll never forgive them for the Nomad which I bought in 2001 before the iPod came out. I have never seen a product more impossible to use than that.
Exact same functionality for half the price? Not bad, if sound quality is OK (which it likely is, if my Zen:M is any indication).
Hahahaha... From a company named Creative... This thing still is trumped by the 2G Shuffle. People may hate them, but it's looking like Apple is taking over the digital music world. Maybe they encode some subliminal encoded message into iTMS-purchased music?
People may hate them, but it's looking like Apple is taking over the digital music world
--
Dude, have you been living under a rock? First of all, Apple IS digital music. Secondly, it's not called the iTMS anymore... They're doing TV shows and movies now and have become the 4th largest retailer of music content. They're taking all this content and hocking Media hubs that you attach to the TV called AppleTV. And they got this phone..
Actually, ... that's probably enough for one day.. forget about the phone... You'll hear about it in a couple weeks..
This disgusts me. This is supposed to be a thread about the Creative Stone, and all that happened was immature iPod fanboys (and Creative fanboys alike) came in and started ranting about which is better. Discuss the product, give a real pro or con, and then back it up with real evidence! Don't just diss one or the other because you've got the other thing.
By the way, I have a Creative Zen Micro, works awesome, I've never had any problems with it and it's faster to charge the battery and to drag and drop music files than it is for charge the battery or transfer music on my dad's iPod Nano. My music files are kept neater in the folders I designate them to be in than when Apple moves them around, and for the person who said mp3's don't keep track of play counts, that's not true. WMP10 tracks how many times I've listened to each song. The only good thing I have to say about iPod is that it has Solitare on it so I can keep myself entertained in Math class.
Creative CEO Sim Wong Hoo on the iPod Shuffle, back in January 2005:
So I think the whole industry will just laugh at it, because the flash people – it’s worse than the cheapest Chinese player. Even the cheap, cheap Chinese brand today has display and has FM.
I wonder if the iPod Shuffle will get a price drop anytime soon
I've got Stone, and I'm glad. I don't need display, 'cause I know what's inside my player. I like the design, quite good sound quality, 1 GB of memory and li-ion battery. Drag'n'drop is cool. Need some software? Download it for free. I don't use it, drag'n'drop saves my time.
K, maybe its a copy of the Shuffle, but a good one, and twice cheaper. Creative is good, I've got some other things of it - Headphones, 7.1 sound system, and they work just great.
P.S. got nothing against Apple - its cool, stylish, works great, but the cost is also a very important thing.
Peace.