Ask Engadget: Media streamer of choice?

We're wrapping our week of Ask Engadget today, and what a party we've had. Make sure to keep on sending questions to ask at engadget dawt com and we'll take a peek at 'em weekly, just like the old days. Yesterday Lisa was looking for a gadget purse, and now we've got Martin getting all technical on us in regards to a media streamer:

"I am looking to buy a digital media streaming device that can play a wide array of media files (so Apple TV is out). I also have a USB mybook external drive which I store my media. I also need to access the drive via network even when it is connected with the streaming device, so I can add new media files to the USB HD via network anytime, and have it stream to my TV. The streamer should also output HD resolution.

"The Netgear EVA8000, on paper, fits the bill mostly, but I am not sure if the USB drive is accessible via network by another computer. Anyone knows? Also, other than the EVA, any other device out there I can consider? "

Sounds like Martin has a lot of needs there, any chance he can find what he's looking for off the shelf? Any other general media streamer recommendations are welcome as well, since we all know that Apple TV isn't the only game in town. Don't forget to send in your q's for next week!

[Boris @ May 4th 2007 9:34PM]

What about Orb? Best Media Streamer ever and 100% free!

[Alex Garipian @ May 4th 2007 9:37PM]

Xbox 1 with XBMC is my choice! Best/cheapest media streamer out their however a little complicated to configure.

[Jordan @ May 4th 2007 9:43PM]

Why not use a media streamer that can connect to smb or workgroup shares. Then you can share that drive from your PC and access the files remotely over the network (instead of the other way around as you describe).

For example. I have a D-Link DNS-323 NAS with 2 500gig drives in JBOD. I can access the files from any computer on the network, it uses gigabit connection and is also available remotely via FTP. I connect to the media from my tv with an modified XBOX running Xbox Media Center. It handles every file type I have yet to throw at it, plays DVDs and can have it's own internal storage if I want.

This solution works better than I could have ever imagined. I have TED (torrent episode downloader) setup for my show. They get passed to uTorrent which downloads and places the files in a "Downloaded" folder on the NAS. Then I can watch then right away, or sort them into their corrosponding folder for later viewing.

[Dave @ May 4th 2007 10:03PM]

Modded Xbox1 with XBMC. Can't beat it.

[Jesse S @ May 4th 2007 10:08PM]

Media server.

[Rohan @ May 4th 2007 10:13PM]

"Modded Xbox1 with XBMC"
- I'm pretty sure that doesn't give HD output.

I'm also interested in the answer to this question... I've asked it elsewhere, and always get the typical "Build an HTPC". For those of us that don't want an HTPC (I have one now, and want a non-computer solution) what is there really to choose from? The MVIX player does HD, and looks pretty decent. But it doesn't do AVC (264), and is kind of expensive.

[Dave @ May 4th 2007 11:34PM]

Actually, it does do HD output.

[Rohan @ May 5th 2007 2:00PM]

Since when does Xbox 1 do 1080p?

And for that matter, with a 733mhz processor, how could it possibly decode 1920 x 1080 progressive, compressed MPEG4 ? Not to even mention WMV9 or 264 ?

I have an HTPC running at 2ghz that struggles with the latter.

[akijikan @ May 4th 2007 10:19PM]

360+Tversity does the trick for me.

[paloooz @ May 4th 2007 10:20PM]

I used to have an AppleTV.

I sold it for a 35' DVI to HDMI cable and a 35' optical cable, if you get my point.

[Rohan @ May 4th 2007 10:30PM]

xbox 360 - does it play 1080p ?

like mpeg2 ts?

[Peter Sills @ May 4th 2007 10:31PM]

XBMC while very nice, is very limited.

I have the Netgear EVA8000 here and it is very good. With the latest FW it will also stream ripped DVDs. Output is excellent in HD up to 1080p. Running MPEG-2 TS in HD without a hiccup.

[JMonkeYJ @ May 4th 2007 10:41PM]

if you have a dual core PC (dual core necessary for real-time transcoding of HD programs), just get an XBOX 360 and use TVersity...then you'll also have a great video game system!

[Kent Martin @ May 4th 2007 10:57PM]

Well, so far, nobody has mentioned anything that can hold a candle to this bad boy:

http://mvixusa.com/product.php?product=mx760

A list of reviews is here:

http://mvixcommunity.com/showtopic.php?tid/12/

Essentially, it plays pretty much any video file you are likely to throw at it (except mkv grrr), upscales everything, has a few different outputs (no HDMI, but, I use a DVI -> HDMI adaptor and optical audio). It streams happily over wireless, and, can take an internal hard drive.

The only downside is the firmware is still coming up to speed... the last couple of releases have been pretty solid though (there were real issues in the early days but they've been sorted). The next release is supposed to add an ftp server so you'll be able ftp stuff directly to it (which is handy coz wifi just doesn't have the testosterone to handle HD streaming).

It (as someone mentioned above) talks to cifs (windows) shares.

I love mine, but the UK supplier is as useless as all get out, so, I bought mine from Ebay in Germany. I do hear v good things about the Mvix shop in the states though.

[ricosuave @ May 4th 2007 11:05PM]

My AppleTv plays ALL formats in HD and with optical sound. It steams beautifully. I have never openned nor hacked it.
All I do is convert to AppleTV format via Quicktime Pro. That's all. Simple, clean and beautiful.

[paloooz @ May 4th 2007 11:13PM]

Your AppleTV does? That's weird, everyone else's only plays up to 1280x720@24fps mpeg4/h.264.

So yours will play like ... DivX and XviD? Will it play Matroska? Oh, Why should I even bother, you say yours plays them all!

People like you are why I am sometimes embarassed to own a Mac. Ya'll are so ignorant.

[Steve Rosenfarb @ May 4th 2007 11:09PM]

Blackrocket makes what you're looking for (br venera). Sprinkle in some home control. Put some VOIP on top. But you're going to have to hold out a while to get one. www.myblackrocket.com.

[ricosuave @ May 5th 2007 8:19PM]

You are embarrased to own a Mac? Then sell it stupid.

[Alkivar @ May 4th 2007 11:29PM]

Apple TV with minor hacking will do what you want...

http://wiki.awkwardtv.org/wiki/List_of_file_formats_working_on_Apple_TV

[Gabe @ May 4th 2007 11:34PM]

I've being using two solutions:

1. Xbox 360 with TVersity.
2. Neuros OSD

I love the combination since with the OSD I can record programs as well as since it is linux is constantly being updated.

[h0mi @ May 5th 2007 10:50PM]

I think it can do 720p without hiccuping but not 1080p. Not sure about 1080i.

[Tired_ @ May 4th 2007 11:38PM]

I have to second Orb. Being able to stream in high quality anywhere in my home plus being able to stream online beats pretty much anything. The server needs to be beefy, but you can put it in the basement if noise is an issue...the location doesn't matter, as long as it has a network connection.

[michael @ May 4th 2007 11:39PM]

Hey, commenters that are suggesting the Apple TV with hacks, the guy doesn't want Apple TV. Don't you understand? If Apple TV was good enough for him, he would have bought it. But hacks and cracks are a nuisance to install to a consumer, and a product should come out good right out of the box. Not a bunch of hacks and cracks and whatever to work into your product.

Now personally, I would go with the Xbox 360 + Windows Media Center. It's gorgeous, especially with the Vista one. I say it's better than Apple TV any day.

[eric f. @ May 5th 2007 11:21AM]

@ Michael

to be fair, he said an Apple tv was out of the question because it doesn't play all the formats. so if a modded Apple TV can't be suggested as a solution, a modded Xbox (that so many others have suggested) shouldn't be considered either.

I am also interested in the best solution for this issue. A generally mod-less one would be ideal...such as networking to my Series3 tivo to use it as a Media Center.

[psxbleem @ May 5th 2007 12:37AM]

I'd check out the new unit from tvix. the HDM-5000U. they even have a version with built in PVR. you just add your own hard drive, connect it, then you can start streaming video over the network from your computer or NAS. the unit can even act as a NAS itself. if you have a dvd rip, it can play the iso made from the disk as if it was a dvd player.

http://www.tvix.co.kr/eng/Products/HDM5000U.aspx

MPEG-1, MPEG-2,(VOB, ISO, IFO), AVI, TP, WMV9, tp, trp, ts are all supported

they also have a hdm-5100 due out in may 2007 according to their website that will support h.264, SATA, and a couple of other nice upgrades. if this unit doesn't meet your needs, nothing will.

[Kevin @ May 5th 2007 12:53AM]

He said Apple TV was out due to format support. It's incredibly easy to just copy over the folder to get all format support.

[Colin @ May 5th 2007 1:05AM]

"Sounds like Martin has a lot of needs there, any chance he can find what he's looking for off the shelf?"

This is the crux of the problem. "Off-the-shelf device" and "here's a list of what I, as an individual need" tend not to compliment each other.

Personally, I use an old PC in a new case running Windows and Meedio for my needs, and it does what I want it to. It also took over a year to get it configured exactly how I wanted it, and there's still trade-offs.

My off-the-shelf iPod works well as a music player, but includes a whole bunch of junk I'm never going to use, like video output, photos, calendars, games and notes. It doesn't include Firewire, which I actually want.

AppleTV, XBMC and the inevitable MythTV suggestions are all great, but they all require hacking and configuring, and none are going to do what Martin wants.

What Martin wants is a mass-produced device that fits his very specific needs. It's just a matter of everyone else wanting those things too.

[racer @ May 5th 2007 2:22AM]

After researching this for over a month I went for
Pixel Magic's Mediabox MB200
http://www.pixelmagicsystems.com/products/media_players/hd_mediabox.htm

I was down to 3 contenders:
Xbox 360 - Too loud for the living room
AppleTv - Fantastic interface but needs a lot of hacking to get it to
play a lot of the formats I wanted (good choice maybe in a years time)
Mediabox Mb200 - Not perfect, put incredible quality output of audio and video
but expensive!

my 2 cents.

[Martin @ May 5th 2007 2:40AM]

Thanks for all the comments.

Currently, my ghetto setup is to have my laptop connect to my TV via S video cable, and my laptop access my room's desktop PC via network (with the USB external drive shared). Obviously not very elegant.

The major problem is that I don't want to turn on my room's PC all the time, so I really should get a NAS solution. But as I was saying, if there's any TV streamer that can double duty as a NAS (with my USB HD connected) then it's perfect.

I don't have media center windows nor Vista.

I do have a xbox360, so seems like tversity is an interesting solution to explore more. But I still need to have my PC turn on.

Maybe I should get the linksys media router thing, which I believe I can connect my USB HD (WD Mybook) to it, and use it as NAS. But if I can just buy one thing (the streamer) and perform both duty (stream and serve NAS), then it would be ideal.

the tivx also seems interesting, it says it has USB connection for a harddrive, and an LAN port. So when I connect the harddrive to the TIVX, would I be able to access the harddrive directly via network?

Also, I am OK with some minor configuration, but I think if an off the shelf product can do most things (and I only need to tweak it to do the final 10%), it will be a much more elegant solution.

Again, thanks for all the comments!!! Please keep them coming!

[Will @ May 5th 2007 3:09AM]

Original XBox with XBox Media Center (XBMC). 1080i output, AVI, MPEG, MOV,MKV, OGM, MP4, you name it, XBMC will play it. The interface is so streamlined that it's easily controlled with the MS remote, can run over XBMSP, UPnP, SMB, DAAP, and FTP. Tuxbox client for the Linux crowd.

I really can't slather enough praise on the 'ole modded XBox, I've got three of them in my home, and even had one in a car. Installation is simple, as a premodded XBox sans software can be had for nothing these days, and the AutoInstall Deluxe disc available online is an easy way to install every application you'd ever need onto the XBox.

I have a DLink DSM 320 sitting underneath the XBox in my living room home theater setup, and even using TVersity software to background convert most of my media, it's such a pain to operate that it's not been powered up since early last year.

I can't wait for the 360 to get hacked, then maybe one day it'll live up to it's little brothers potential!

[frederic.schmitt @ May 5th 2007 3:32AM]

You should take a look at Aston Bee-Box, VLC based. If VLC can read it, the Bee-Box can display it on your TV. Check out: www.aston-france.com

[Steve @ May 5th 2007 5:00AM]

I've just got a Freecom MediaPlayer 350 WLAN and its fantastic.
It connects to a tv via component HD or HDMI.
It has so far played everything I have tried (mpeg, avi, divx, xvid, dvd isos).
It will find and shared folders on a network and stream video and music from that or you can add a 3.5 inch pata hard disk to it (or buy it with a hard disk already loaded) and play off the hd.
connect to the unit by usb2, wired or wireless lan and you can plug external usb drives directly into it too.

the unit costs (without a hard disk) about £120 ($230).
i would definitely recommend it.

http://www.freecom.com/ecproduct_detail.asp?ID=3406&CatID=8060&sCatID=1147074&ssCatID=1147074

[Joe @ May 5th 2007 8:30AM]

Hi guys.
This thread is just right for me: I have been looking for a media streamer/player for quite a while now and cannot find what I am looking for. I want a media streamer that does have its own display.
(It does of course not need to be play video on it.) All I want is to be able to browse for MP3s /AAC and listen to them WITHOUT having to switch the TV on for onscreen menu. Of the devices mentioned here only the http://mvixusa.com/product.php?product=mx760 does have an own external display.
Actually video support is not all that important after all, but MP3/AAC playback and online radio would be the absolute minimum requirements. And at best it should be a flat device i.e. not standing upright but lying flat like a DVD player so it fits with all other Multimedia gear.
Does anybody have any recommendations? They would be greatly appreciated.

[mels @ May 5th 2007 8:57AM]

I love my Zen...
http://www.z500series.com/features.php

# HDMI output with HDCP support
World's first Network DVD Media Player to support HDMI output with HDCP.

# Windows File Sharing (SMB)
World's first Network DVD Media Player to support Windows File sharing (SMB).
No server software needed on the PC!

# FLAC Support
World's first Network DVD Media Player to support FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec).

# NTFS Support for USB Devices
World's first Network DVD Media Player to provide NTFS support for USB 2.0 drives.

# Unique Remote Control
World's first remote control with EL backlight and joystick function for easy navigation.

# Incremental Pan and Zoom
World's first Network DVD Media Player to support incremental Pan and Zoom during file playback (fine grained control of zoom in .05 increments).

# Skinnable GUI
World's first Network DVD Media Player with fully skinnable firmware allowing for customised appearance.

# Easy Navigation with Front Panel Display
TV doesn't need to be turned on to play MP3 files. All files and info (ID3 Tag) are available for viewing on the front panel display.

# Emergency Firmware Recovery
No need to send the unit back for repairs in the event of an interrupted firmware update -- power failure, etc. Firmware can be restored to factory defaults with the Emergency Firmware Recovery disc.

[dude @ May 5th 2007 10:00AM]

Xbox 1 XBMC (with HUGE hard drive) by far.

"Peter Sills @ May 4th 2007 10:31PM

XBMC while very nice, is very limited."

Mr. Sills, Other than 1080 content...please explain how...

[Michael @ May 5th 2007 10:25AM]

Zensonic is a piece of crap. Shitty software, lot of bugs (I heard that NetGear is no better). Although idea is pretty nice. I had a device for 3 weeks before it went dead. DigitalConnection where I bought it is no better in terms of support. Just give it to repair, I hope it is a power supply. Incredible garbage

[Zebulunite @ May 5th 2007 10:54AM]

I currently just use the same setup as Martin: connect the laptop to the TV via s-video and the headphone jack. For a while, I had my desktop setup with Windows Media Center steaming to my Xbox1 using the media center extender software, though with that I was limited to playing back mpeg2 files and WMV files (i.e. only my recordings). I would like to mod my Xbox with XBMC, but I'm not sure where to find an original Mechassualt cd in order to do the softmod.

If money were no object, my ideal media streamer/extender would be the PS3, given its HD output, the ability to use Linux on it, and its support for video playback off of its harddrive and USB drives. A combination of the PS3 and XBMC would be great, as you would have excellent software combined with open, powerful hardware (correcting the few faults with the Xbox and XBMC).

[Zebulunite @ May 5th 2007 10:57AM]

I forgot to add: I plan on installing Mediaportal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaPortal) at some point on my laptop, in order to have an XBMC/MCE like interface, while being able to use my USB infrared remote receiver.

[pr0xie @ May 5th 2007 10:58AM]

No one mentioned Linux MCE, about the closest thing you will get to out of the box that will fufill everything. Based on Ubuntu 6.10 and MythTv it also has tons of other features if you every want to get more in depth (like smart home functions, and cell phone remotes).

http://linuxmce.com/

[Raggamofyn @ Jul 2nd 2007 10:08AM]

Of course, that looks like software rather than hardware. But it definitely looks like it's worth exploring.

[Romeo Echo @ May 5th 2007 2:28PM]

This question is of great interest to me too.

Personally, I'm holding off until the D-Link DSM-750 media player hits the market, which should be soon. Draft-N and H.264 support seems crucial, and this box is gonna have it. D-Link's previous media streamers were crap (e.g. their latest supposedly-HD offering didn't even support HD JPEGs) But hopefully they've learned from their mistakes.

[Romeo Echo @ May 5th 2007 2:30PM]

Oh, and product link for DSM-750 is: http://www.dlink.com/products/?pid=547&sec=1

[Martin @ May 5th 2007 4:01PM]

Yah.. so far that's what I heard too.. for every product that's being recommended.. there would be few bad reviews to it saying the software sucks...no this or that support.. maybe this market is still too new...

Anyways... I am hoping for all the new comments... please..when you recommend a streamer.. can you also comment on the USB HD connectivity and accessibility of it via network??? (meaning I can leave my USB harddisk plug in to the streamer, and still be able to access it via network ) (I like to do this as I don't have to turn on my PC all the time, and I can access my USB drive as a NAS)

Thank you.

[diem @ May 5th 2007 4:20PM]

I'm pretty sure that the format for this type of comment/reccommendation blog is all wrong. I am also interested in seeing what the contenders are but the scrolling through notes + banter is a little confusing + disorganized....

solution...
I think a matrix of features + devices would be a better solution. I"m not sitting on the solution im simply proposing it...


for example...

joe s. says the FreeCom Media player is the best...

andy h. says the ability to play 1080i is the most important fetaure to consider...

ok... so as people comment (vote for) a specific unit, that unit gets added in the left hand column, and the features that are (voted for) are added to the top rows... thus it is a user generated comparison grid. it is also merged with a "poll" so that users can vote for their favorite player + feature. a rating system would even generate an "ideal choice"...

ok so there is significant amount of programing required here, but im sure its a better solution.


for those interested in a list of available players click below. I found this list while searching for 1 of my own....I'm sure its not a comprehensive list, but that goes back to my comments above...)

http://www.twonkyvision.de/Products/TwonkyMedia/devices.html


Im personally currently leaning towards the buffalo linktheater device which has a on-unit display. I also like the form factor that matches the rest of my AV components.

my 2cents...

[Jeffy @ May 5th 2007 6:14PM]

D-Link's DSM-520 does the job and has lowest price tag.

[Shawn O @ May 5th 2007 10:01PM]

XBox 360.

It's what me and my wife use. She's very picky about gadgets and if they don't work well she vetos them out of our living room. I stream everything from an external 500GB MyBook that's connected to a PC upstairs. I also setup a nightly batch converting that converts all video to WMV, but TVersity worksk great if you don't want to be bothered.

[Ron @ May 5th 2007 11:15PM]

Mediagate MG-350HD

http://www.mediagateusa.com/
http://www.airlinktek.com/english/prod_mg350.htm

I use 3 at work (I'm the Media Ministries Director at a Church in KCMO), and one at home. Firmware is already stable and useful, and the mfr. is very good at responding to customer's (useful) ideas.

Like the mentioned MVIX product, it plays nearly everything.
Nice menu structure, skinable, plays ripped DVD's exactly like a live player (all menu features).

Has Internet Radio feature- early in its implementation, but it works... and is useful.

If you find reviews about it having buggy firmware, keep in mind that there have been multiuple firmware updates since released, and it's very stable now.

Has one 10/100 LAN port
Has 1 USB2.0 host port for external USB drives
Has 1 USB2.0 slave port for PC connection as external hard drive
3.5-inch HDD is user-installable
Supports HD MP2, MP4 and WMV9
Supports MP1/2@HL (720p/1,080i), MP4@L5 (720p) and WMV9 MP@ML (720p)
Supports composite, S-video, component video outputs
Supports stereo L/R, optical/coaxial digital audio, analog 5.1 channels
Supports JPEG/BMP/GIF/PNG still picture
Enables file surfing from multiple sources on TV using a remote controller:
—PCs in the network (wired or WiFi separate)
—HDD inside
—USB devices attached

Internal Drive Support: 3.5” IDE (Ultra-ATA/100 or /133)

External Drive Support: USB 2.0 (1.1 compatible)

Network Capabilities: 10/100 Ethernet port; 802.11g/b wireless

Wireless Security: WEP, WPA (with firmware update)

Video-out Ports: Composite, component, s-video, DVI

Audio-Out Ports: Stereo RCA; digital coax; optical

TV Standards Supported: NTSC, PAL

TV Definitions Supported: 480p-1080p

Video File Formats: MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4; WMV,
DivX, AVI, VOB, Xvid

Audio File Formats: MP3, OGG, WMA, M4A (with firmware update),
ACC (ditto), WAV; Dolby Digital support

Image File Formats: JPG, PNG, BMP, GIF

[irish @ May 6th 2007 9:45AM]

Xbox360 running in Media Center extender mode, with transcode 360 running on the PC.
- does HD content in multiple formats (including HD tv recording)
- i've got my PC doing all my PVR, so I get HD broadcast TV through this as well
- entire music library, photo library (including Flickr photos with Big Screen photos add-on)
- divx, xvid formats
- got an HD-DVD add-on drive so I have HD DVD movies too
- great UI ... one remote... don't need to switch to the cruddy cable box ever
- and I'm connected to Xbox live the whole time so if someone wants to message me for Gears of War while I'm watching TV/movie then I get the message. (can even voice chat while watching TV).

[James @ May 6th 2007 10:48AM]

I used to have an Xbox with XBMC, and all the people talking it up are absolutely right. XB1 can do 720p and 1080i, but not 1080p (though who the hell has a 1080p monitor???); I can personally vouch for 720p DivX decoding working a treat, streaming over 100Mbit ethernet. My Xbox died in a power surge, and since then I've been using my best desktop (circa 2003; I just can't bring myself to foot the bill for building a new one) as a quasi-HTPC, hooked to my HDTV via a DVI-HDMI lead, and the audio through my home theater unit.

I think the people that made observations about the tradeoff between time invested and capability probably have a good point. I use my PC instead of, say, streaming to my 360 or buying an off-the-shelf streamer because I want absolute and final control over what my media player does, and if I can't do it now, I just go out and find a different software package, or as a last resort, upgrade my hardware.

My vote goes to either hacking yourself an Xbox, or build-your-own HTPC.

[blargman @ May 7th 2007 5:29AM]

HTPC HTPC HTPC HTPC HTPC HTPC

proprietary firmwared set tops are crap. If you want HD get a PC. If you want to cap/record/timeshift hd and have it run your media center too, get a PC. Apple TV is crap. 720p? blah. nothing can do m ore than a PC and the best part is its fully upgradeable!