Microsoft: Linux and others violate 235 of our patents
By Thomas Ricker 
posted May 14th 2007 4:26AM
posted May 14th 2007 4:26AM
If you thought that Microsoft's deal with Novell was the end of Redmond v. Linux litigation, think again. In an unsettling story carried by Fortune over the weekend, Microsoft's General Counsel claims that free and open-source software (FOSS) violates exactly 235 Microsoft patents: Linux kernel (42), Linux GUI (65), Open Office suite (45), email (15), and then another 68 patents violated across a variety of FOSS wares -- the first time Microsoft has provided such specificity. Microsoft goes so far as to claim that that is the reason for open-source software's high-quality. However, Eben Moglen, legal counsel to the Free Software Foundation and head of the Software Freedom Law Center, says that software is a mathematical algorithm which can not be patented and easily "invented around" -- a case made even stronger last month by the Supreme Court's unanimous ruling undermining patent trolls. Still, FOSS allies such as Sony, Philips, Novell, Red Hat and NEC were already banded together under the Open Invention Network with their own collection of patents meant to protect themselves from the kind of litigious quagmire Microsoft seems poised to launch. Ironically, that very pact between Microsoft, Novell, and more recently Dell makes Microsoft an uneasy Linux distributor (depending upon your legal interpretation of the deal) which could leave them powerless to bring patent suits against Linux customers and distributors. With Microsoft facing the Google goliath and a general consumer malaise, it's really no surprise to find them prepped for a patent offensive in search of additional revenue. However, our biggest fear is for this sudden increase in posturing by Ballmer and Co. to turn into a full blown series of lawsuits and countersuits sure to stifle innovation into the next decade. [Via Scobleizer]
I'm simply pointing out that Office works right from the start, whereas Open Office requires tweaking before it runs well. So yes, I do think I'll stay with Office, Cause I don't have to fuck with it to make it work. :P
1. This will blow up in their face.
2. This is only based on recent American law - which has not been tested by the Supreme Court.
3. MS thinks they are losing.
You know how MS won their dominance? They offered good enough software that was cheaper than the competition. Sound familiar? Linux has taken all their advantages away. Now they have to compete like the companies they once made fun of: Corel, Lotus, IBM. They're resorting to legal tricks and artificial lock-in that customers hate. They have even started raising prices.
They are officially in trouble. Stockholders should be concerned.
I was waiting to buy a Dell Linux, but since they're tied up in this MS stuff, I won't touch it.
@ mj
As a stockholder, the only thing I would be worried about is what color my new car should be.
Record profits tend to make me feel pretty secure in an investment.
(not a MS shareholder)
"that is the reason for open-source software's high-quality"
Such arrogancy... i hate Microsoft... it´s the worst OS ever! But it´s sad to accept that a lot of programs do not have support for linux :(
"So I must conclude that your definition of patent troll is: "anyone other than Apple who has a patent and is willing to assert their rights or suggest that they may assert their rights.""
Your statement assumes that all patents are valid and that all patent holders have valid patents. We know this is not the case. Just because the patent office grants the patent doesn't mean it should have been granted.
Sure, someone with a patent has rights, but if the patent is bogus, so are those rights.
They are not interested in sueing. Or they are not interested in sueing many people.
They are only interested in creating panic. Making people say "I better buy Windows from Microsoft, it's only $XYZ a pop".
The target of this FUD is the corporations. The corporations who are migrating from Microsoft software to open source software. They are the guys that give a lot of money to Microsoft throught licensing. They are the guys that are so afraid of not being sued...
>meant to protect themselves from the kind of litigious quagmire Microsoft seems poised to launch
"poised to launch"? Really? Are you you brain dead bloggers really too busy to read the whole thing? They admit that suing is a "non starter".
Good, I hope they sue and that stuff gets removed. Everyone except Microsoft seems to get a free pass when it comes to infringing copyrights.
@johnzilla
All issued patents are presumed valid unless proven invalid by clear and convincing evidence. Some are eventually proven invalid. Assuming that some of the patents are invalid before trial is a misnomer because it's exactly opposite of what the law says.
This applies to ALL patents, even MS's.
It also applies to Apple, who is NEVER deemed a patent troll by this site. So, everything I said is dead on accurate about MS, these patents, and this site.
Business as usual, for the company that competes on the strengths of its lawyers, rather than its products.
Robert, I see your point. But if you continue to the last page, you'll read that the FSF revised the GPL so that deals like the one struck by Novell can't (in theory) be repeated. As such, MS' choices for obtaining the royalties they seek are now limited: 1) strike a deal with each and every company that uses FOSS for a direct license, or 2) sue.
Thomas
"These open-source pirates just copied MS's hard work. Monkey see monkey do."
Oh, excuuuuse me! Have you actually looked at Apple's OS compared to Windows? Come on! Microsoft's only other profitable product is a total rip-off from Mac, from the ground up.
And just go search to find some of the other mind-boggling number of times Microsoft has been sued for stealing.
The thing that REALLY gets me with this sort of stuff isn't their stealing, bad as it is, but their blazing hypocrisy on top of it.
i think this is more so a "told you so". settle down, engadget, settle down. with googles new tagline, i bet microsoft is o so scared. wasn't there some kind of thing that called out microsoft for some kind of claims? was it not to do with this?
I just hope that, whomever is screwing whom, justice is truly served. To be clear, I hate MS. Their product is bloatware, their acquisition tactics are morally suspect and their very culture hinders creativity/innovation in the rest of the industry in stead of nurturing it. That said, MS's nefarious past should not affect legal decisions of unrelated issues today. Justice is, after all, supposed to be blind.
Oh man, I completely sympathize with the animosity towards OpenOffice. The screwing around I had to do to get OpenOffice to work, just ridiculous.
First - get this - I had to *download* it!
Then, just when I thought I had finally gotten through the worst of it, I find out that I had to *install* the thing! Merely downloading it isn't enough.
But the problems didn't end there! Installing is all well and good, but if you want to *use* the software, you have to RUN it!! Unbelievable.
Opening and importing files was a convoluted mess of a process, that involved going to 'Files', selecting 'open', then selecting the file.
To make matters even more confusing, you can double-click a file for OO to open automatically. How the hell are people supposed to remember more than one thing?
To really get an idea just how horrifying this open-source monstrosity can be, just try exporting a PDF. The nightmare of having to go to 'File' and select 'Export PDF' is beyond words. There are no adjectives that can suitably describe my reaction.
These issues simply have to be addressed for OO to be taken seriously!
Um...Linux guys? You know you're wrong, right?
Silly sudo wannabe patent aside, I think MS' claim is VERY valid and for a simple, obvious reason:
The "Linux on Desktop World Domination" trend pretty much is geared towards some fantastical aim of usurping Windows and OS X on the desktop...by aping them.
Linux is a clone OS...its desktop environs of choice are also clones.
Its office suite was made to look and work like someone else's Office Suite...
It goes on and on. It would be silly to think that the people that came up with the methods, R&D and reasoning behind "why we do it this way" did not patent these processes.
And anyone that wants to engage in *honest debate* about it would have to acknowledge that in all of the focus on the copyleft copyright...no one was thinking about patents for the most part.
So, while on the surface the "its so high quality because it uses patented methods that work to do its thing" comments seem like bluster at first glance, there is something to it.
I mean, look at a lot of open source project's mailing lists and discussions; there is hardly ever any talk or R&D on original methods of user interaction or usability...and on the projects that have seen it discussed, these people, the *innovators* are sent away, shushed and browbeaten because their ideas are not the way "M$ and Apple do it...users would have to learn something new/different and our goals of World Domination will be stifled" type of push-back.
So yeah, its the workings and METHODS that are at issue here, that some companies have paid assloads of money and time to tweak, research and develop that are being lifted and bolted on to OSS things that are the issue here...and anyone denying that tons of OSS offerings aren't doing THAT to "raise quality" and "compete" are being dishonest.
All M$ is doing is, well, threatening to break this, for want of a better word, "détente" that is the current quagmire that is the current Cold War of software patents. They have the money and the motivation to do so, but more importantly, the "hunch" that, as history has shown, people will look at the pocketbook and would rather switch (back) than fight.
@ Kai Cherry
First of all Linux is a far better operating system than Windows. Second of all M$ needs to spend more time and money on R&D to make a descent operating system. I mean XP Pro is alright. But beyond that its all shit. Third of all have you seen OS10 or OSX and have you seen Vista. Well lets see here Vista seems to be a rip off of both of those. Hmmmmm.... Basically you are full of shit. And winfuck is a shitty OS. And Microshit has enough money so they need to shove there so called patents that they wont release to the public up there ass.
A handful of rebel geeks? Have you used ubuntu? By the way, $250 saved is something more people understand than you may think. Contact me at ethana2@gmail.com if you have any questions about using open source software. Always glad to help people escape, or just make their lives easier.
Whoa Whoa Whoa. Don't jump the Gun. I don't like Microsoft much either, but I've seen a few specific Linux Distros that I thought where much worse than Windows. But all that meant is I went to the next distro until I found one I liked.
To clear everything up. Software, of any kind, should not be something that can be patented. Same with Mathematical formulas, and Intellectual Property. I don't care what company you are in favor of.
Most of the people that defend Microsoft Office just do so cause they spent $450 for something that's only minutely better than the Open Source Alternative. The Photoshop versus GIMP argument is truly idiotic too. Go ahead prefer Photoshop you have 495.95 reasons to do so.
Seriously, all of the comments that are ranked that defend that glut of a company are ranked the highest, and all comments that say something negative about them are ranked down. It almost seems if Microsoft employees are here themselves with how defensive all of these comments are. I mean really, I've never LOVED a company so much that I would get all butt-hurt about it and try to talk down that its such an awful thing that Engadget posted a negative article about them.
Quote:
"Tinus Lorval @ May 14th 2007 7:58AM
"They see Linux is a growing threat"
Lol.. as much as I bet you'd like to believe that, Linux isn't even nearly ready for the big public. You can't tell the average user to go into terminal mode and type some command lines to fix cryptic technical problems. Or expect them to download the source code for a driver off a Finnish hacker's website and compile it so their scanner will finally work with ..
Linux is for a handfull of rebel geeks, nothing more."
WOW. This comment is highest ranked. WTF!!! Why all the hostility dude. I mean how can everybody agree with this guy c'mon. It's known throughout the world that Microsoft is shady. Why do you think half the world is suing them for monopolizing and stifling innovation. This is clearly another example of them trying to get there hands into everything. Why can't they just co-exist with Linux and try to actually "compete" with them, instead of hiring people to edit wikipedia entries and pulling all this garbage thats only going to hurt and stifle innovation in the industry as a whole.
I know for certain that my comment will be ranked way down simply because of my views about Microsoft. But all that does is actually let me know there's nothing more than a bunch Microsoft LOVERS that are making the comments.
@siriusfox:
I disagree. I am a programmer, and if the things I create aren't copyrighted, patented, etc. then someone can use everything I've created without paying me a dime, and get away with it.
There are many people who gladly donate their time and code to projects such as OpenOffice, Linux, Debian, Fedora, etc., but I am not one of them. Those people get applause from me.
Something that's always bugged me is the difference between software and hardware. It started when I was in a chatroom and this guy was talking about how he downloaded all these games for free, never paid for software in his life (even proprietary software), but he had a steering wheel for a racing game he had. Somehow he had decided that a steering wheel was worth paying money for and a game was not. You know how he decided? He COULDN'T download a steering wheel. Let's assume that each product took the same time to create. Why should the steering wheel manufacturer get money for his creation while the racing game creator doesn't get any? What you propose is that the racing game manufacturer wouldn't get his money, and there is something fundamentally wrong with that proposal.
Theres a hell of a difference between copyrighting a book and patenting the word "The"
Man, Microsoft must have set aside a whole day for their employees to post here.
Well leave it to Microbsoft (not miss spelled in my book). All they want is $$$$$ nothing else. So if I design a new OS, Microbsoft will bring a suit against me. All they want in my opion is other peoples work. The truth is Vista SUCKS and they want to look to the linux world to fix there mess. This is all my opinion now.
Billy boy get real. We of the Linux World will NEVER die. Lets face it We can build better software and you are just money hungry.
Urk! That pictures! It buuuuurns!
Thats a very good point Jim.
...to all anti MS posters, what OS and browser do y'all currently use?
I just upgraded my system from ubuntu6.10(Edgy Eft) to ubuntu7.04(feisty fawn). and i also use vectorlinux on my laptop. and i am using mozilla firefox web browser, sometimes opera.
I don't like Microsoft operating systems because they are slow, resource hungry and insecure.
Sure you can improve security with patches and other software you can download, but open source software has a really big advantage in this point. If there's a security issue you'll have a security patch ASAP by just clicking a button (and with ASAP I mean a few days for serious issues).
The commercial vs. free debate is ridiculous. Just think about it, if software that is created by people who don't get paid for it can even closely reach the quality of software that is created by people who get paid for it, then what's the point in complaining about the free software.
About the driver issues in Linux... The companies who produce the hardware should also write the drivers. That's not the case for most companies. Most of them don't even release the specs
on their hardware, so someone could write a driver for a different OS.
So the open source programmers writing for Linux not only do the job Microsoft does (creating a good OS), but also do the job that should be done by companies creating hardware.
So the basic problem with Linux is, that it's not taken seriously by many companies, just because it doesn't have the market share Microsoft does.
And because Linux doesn't have the industry support Microsoft has, it has to get its market share in a different way. And that way is by providing the better alternative to Microsoft.
Doing that, of course, requires to mimic the important features (like Office), that everybody is used to on Windows machines.
The funny thing about Linux is, that you just can't look at only one distribution and think that you now know everything about Linux. In fact, how much Linux looks like a rip-off of any other OS is up to the distributors.
So I assure you, look at the Linux of a real geek and you'll see something new.
Though I'm still forced to use Windows sometimes. Some games I like to play just don't work with Linux or cedega, I'm too lazy to learn Blender, so I have to use the Windows-only commercial modelling software I'm used to... But that's not a shortcoming of Linux, it's just lack of support...
Personally for me, using Windows is like being locked up inside a small prison cell, while Linux is a walk in the park with the huge wide world beyond the tree lines, there to be discovered for anyone who cares.
But then again, that much freedom is hard to comprehend for someone who was born and raised inside a small prison cell.