New York Attorney General files Dell deception lawsuit

New York Attorney General Andrew Cuomo has filed a lawsuit against Dell, accusing the company of false advertising, failure to honor rebates and warranties, and several other fraudulent acts (including the specific, legally defined crime of "fraud" in New York). Dell is quite unsurprisingly contesting the suit, saying that "we are confident that our practices will be found to be fair and appropriate," and that the number of customers named in the Attorney General's filing "are based upon a small fraction of Dell's consumer transactions." Dell spokesman Bob Pearson makes sure to say that "even one dissatisfied customer is too many," which sorta makes his earlier statement about the number of affected customers being small meaningless: especially since if the claimants are successful, this'll make at least two dissatisfied Dell customers. As one of America's largest corporations, Dell has been the subject of many lawsuits, although not all are filed by Attorneys General. That said, Pearson has made certain that this recent suit is not related to the Security and Exchange Commission's ongoing investigations into Dell's accounting practices. Well, that's a relief then.

[Apoco-Lips @ May 16th 2007 3:04PM]

They should just make the practice of rebates illegal - so you either get your discounted price at point of purchase or not. Saves wasting paper on forms and envelopes; a portion of rainforest is spared ... global warming solved ^_^

[Rick @ May 16th 2007 3:05PM]

You need a picture of Michael Dell with Evil Bert. I know these guys are connected.

[randy @ May 16th 2007 3:08PM]

Phew. For a minute I thought Engadget was being sued.

[Astacide @ May 16th 2007 3:45PM]

Yes! This is great news! Dell deserves to pay for the flat out LIES they pay their employees to tell customers! With close ties to numerous employees, I could list off numerous unethical practices within the company, mainly directed towards treatment of employees. These are things mentioned to me on a DAILY basis. If you're a customer, you just just have to know you are getting screwed. When employees get screwed just as bad (i.e. not getting paid the overtime hours they worked, intentional manipulation of employee sales history to "even the playing field," by taking orders from high selling reps and giving them to low selling reps, the laundry list is virtually endless), greed has taken its toll... I look forward to the day there are government sanctions on Dell and they are forced to actually pay their employees fairly and a lower turnover rate than 60-70% in a 6 month period. You exploit people and you get the crap sued out of you. Welcome to The United States of America.

[LordFarkward @ May 16th 2007 10:31PM]

i think at this point u should start listing at least 30 of the 'numerous unethical practices' to prove your point. just saying 'bad, bad, bad, m'kay?' doesn't actually prove anything, you know...

[Mobi Fin @ May 16th 2007 3:56PM]

I've owned a lot of Dell's in my day and every place I have worked has Dell's. In fact it is difficult not to buy Dell because they are such a good value.

Sure their service is poor but the product in general is extremely reliable. I wish they made some nicer looking laptops but other than that I think Dell is OK. It is clear from a design point why HP has taken over the #1 spot.

[John Doe @ May 16th 2007 9:36PM]

"Sure their service is poor but the product in general is extremely reliable. "

Bullshit.

[Unhappy Dell User @ May 16th 2007 4:00PM]

I bought into the Dell hype 2 years ago and got a laptop with their "complete care" warranty. A year later when the battery was toast, they claim "batteries aren't covered".

I have discovered their tech support is pathetic (if you can even get a rep that speak english well enough you can understand them), and their machines have so much crapware they barely function.

I am not sure who I'll buy from next time (next year I hope), but Dell isn't on the top of my list.

I wish that this case, or a similiar case, were a national class action suit and I would could join in on the fun.

[Chainer @ May 16th 2007 4:34PM]

I would just like to mention that batteries, like power packs, have a standard 90 day manufacturer's warranty. Almost all batteries in Dell's computers are not even made by them, which is why they have to stick with the 90 day warranty, because it's pretty much all they have from the manufacturer that makes them. Dell doesn't determine the length of these warranties, but honors the full 90 day MANUFACTURER's warranty.

A complete care warranty covers spills, drops, and power surges to the actual machine. Technically, you're getting a regular warranty with Accidental Damage, which is a smart thing to do if you have a laptop.

I have 2 Dells (laptop, desktop) and a Dell LCD TV, and I am EXTREMELY satisfied with their products. I haven't had one bit of trouble with their tech support. When it comes to the people "speaking English," it's a matter of getting them to understand you, simply put.

Their machines are low cost because they put the "crapware" on them as they are paid to do so. If you know anything about computers, spending 5 minutes to uninstall all of the programs you want, is not a big hassle for a low cost computer. If you don't know how to uninstall software, it's definitely time to take up computer lessons.

I've found Dell PCs to be extremely reliable. If you're buying a PC, the thing to remember is that manufacturers only create 1-2 key components on the entire system: the case, motherboard, and/or RAM. Sometimes, they only make the case. Everything else is made by a separate manufacturer, down to the lonely little BIOS. So, in technicality, when it comes to tech support, all of these corporations are limited in the Tech Support they are able to give with their systems and sometimes will refer you elsewhere. Face it, you're not going to get Microsoft Tech support from a Dell or HP Tech...licensing prevents them from doing so.

I'm not giving any excuses for Dell...just laying out the facts.

[Susan @ May 16th 2007 4:31PM]

They shoudl be sued for making consumers who purchase their printers stuck with buying ink from them. A law was passed some time ago making it illegal for a manufacture to force a consumer to buy their brand ink and for it to void any warranty. Dell is putting in chips into their ink cartridges making using the "real" manfufacture ink who make the printers for dell to put their name on. I believe lexmark makes their printers, yet the consumer is not able to buy lexmark ink. Dell should be sued for this also.

[Unhappy Dell User @ May 16th 2007 4:54PM]

@ Chainer

"Their machines are low cost because they put the "crapware" on them ..."

Dells prices aren't so stellar, I paid 2 grand for my dell d610, and it was DELL crapware installed on it, not third party (for the most part).

"If you know anything about computers, spending 5 minutes to uninstall all of the programs you want, is not a big hassle for a low cost computer. If you don't know how to uninstall software, it's definitely time to take up computer lessons."

I am an A+ certified PC repairman, I know how to uninstall this sh**, but I still would like to not need to go through the hassle, and again 2 grand isn't "low cost" in my book.


"all of these corporations are limited in the Tech Support they are able to give with their systems and sometimes will refer you elsewhere. Face it, you're not going to get Microsoft Tech support from a Dell or HP Tech..."

I also sell computers for a living, I offer a FULL warranty, if it doesn't work the way it should during the warranty period, I (or my technicians) fix or replace it UNDER WARRANTY. Microsoft hasn't sued me yet for helping my customers. It is DELL's support that I have in question as to English speaking ability and technical knowhow. I spent 2 weeks "troubleshooting" an issue with them as the repeatedly reinstalled drivers, rebooted the machine, etc. (they kept repeating the exact same process) all the time I kept telling them my CPU was overheating simply because the fan had gone out and that is what was causing the failures (like the machine locking up). After installing the wireless driver the ump-teenth yime they finally where frustrated enough to listen and, amazingly, now I have a new, functional fan and the machine works just fine.

This is one example, it is representative of all the calls I've had with Dell in the last year (not only on this machine, but some at work as well). AS someone else stated, if it isn't common and listed in their database, they are clueless and if your time is worth anything, it would pay to just fix it yourself. Myself, I paid money for a warranty, and so I waste much of my time forcing them to fix the problem rather than just buying the hardware (from them) to fix it.


Keep your facts straight, and don't make excuses for others.

[pinakidion @ May 16th 2007 4:38PM]

Rebates are a scourge. I hope that Cuomo goes after Best Buy, next. With all the cut the UPC Code off the box and a note from your mom along with a picture of the unit purchased, blah, blah blah. Give a discount or don't. I know why they do it, but it should be banned.

BTW more than one attorney general is attorneys general. Sorry to nitpick.

[Din @ May 16th 2007 4:41PM]

I have had a first hand experience of the Dell financing scam that the lawsuit mentions. Apparently I wasn't the only one. Can anyone post a link to join the suit if it is a class action?

[James @ May 16th 2007 4:52PM]

I think I'm just unlucky, because I'm not aware of this being a trend for a majority of their products, but I've had a number of Dell products with well-documented design flaws.

Inspiron 8200: the case is flimsy enough that if you pick up the computer with one hand often enough, the motherboard will flex and hairline fractures will develop in some of the traces, rendering the motherboard useless. Got a new mobo off Ebay, but it died too.

Axim X3i PDA (and possibly others): faulty SD sockets can develop loose connections with even very infrequent use, leading to inability to read from expansion memory. Happened to me about 2 weeks outside the year warranty, and the unwritten but apparently official policy is to always give 1 month of coverage beyond the written warranty date. Of course, when the power connector on the replacement broke (probably due to a poorly-designed 3rd-party power adapter -- not Dell's fault), I was SOL.

Inspiron 5150: the desktop-grade processor runs so hot that it will actually melt connections on the nearby power connector (DC jack), creating intermittent (and eventually no) power connection. This one actually led to a class-action suit which was settled by giving all 5150 owners an extended warranty to cover this and other related hardware failures until September of this year. Of course, if it happens *again* in October, you're out 300-600 bucks for a new motherboard...

Anyway, I get the impression that "many" of Dell's products are of pretty good build quality -- especially their business lines -- but I've had enough bad experiences that I'm unlikely to recommend them to anybody. I build my own desktops so that's not an issue, and I hear Acer makes pretty good laptops for the budget market, or maybe if I want to splurge I'll get something pretty like a Vaio, or an IBM, or even one of those Intel-based Macs... if they can get with the 1990s and add a second damn mouse button.

[James @ May 16th 2007 4:54PM]

Oh, and in re: rebates, I agree -- they ban betting on horses, they ban slots, they ban roulette, but rebates are a shell game that continues unimpeded. If any state has a real interest in consumer protection, they aught to do away with this outmoded scam.

[Todd @ May 16th 2007 5:18PM]

I was also a die-hard Dell fan some years ago. Then, as a self-employed consultant/technician, I started noticing a decline in reliability, most definitely in support. The problems I had in using my Dell business account credit totally made it a clincher to move to HP.

Dell's on the downslide!

[dustandechoes91 @ May 16th 2007 6:44PM]

serves those bastards right. My dad bought me a computer from 3 or 4 years ago, and they intentionally did not put on the plastic slots for two of the rams, a pci express x16, and agp, even though the holes and everything were there, so i would buy another computer instead of upgrading. So then i ask about getting a new motherboard, and guess what, dell uses a custom size motherboard, so id need a new case, and a new power supplky caus apparently thier power supplies are custom too. So if i wanted to add an actual graphics card to this pos box they made me, id pretty much have to build a new computer, only saving half the ram, the processor, and the hard drive.

[Squishey @ May 16th 2007 7:39PM]

Tell me about Dell, I work for them. I'm actually at work right now. I work in the Technical Support section of Dell, and to be honest, I completely agree with you. Majority of the techs here are completely incompetent. They are force-fed the answers to the CompTIA A+ test (the crappy new one, the old test had a high failure rate) and pushed out on the floor. Many of them have never worked on a computer in their lives. I hate working here....






Honestly, who has ever heard of a tech wanting to do a chkdsk /r on a HDD that isn't even detected by the system? That's the majority of what the techs do here in Utah...pathetic....

[rp @ May 16th 2007 7:44PM]

Dell is just plain terrible. I was working in Windows IT (I'm a Mac user) for about half a year many years ago, and we received a shipment of about 10 new Dells. Out of the 10 brand new Dells, 6 were DOA. How is that freaking possible? I'm sorry, but 6 out of 10 is ridiculous. Of course, that made it so I had to get on the phone with Dell for about an hour to get replacements for them, which of course they were happy to do. Out of the 6 that came back, only 2 were DOA that time. Obviously the build quality is horrible.
As for the battery thing, I'm not sure I understand why Dell has a policy to only replace a battery before 90 days. Everyone knows that eventually your battery will die. Apple replaces batteries as long as you have the warranty (either the standard 1 year or extended Applecare). Sounds like you got ripped off.

[onijoo @ May 16th 2007 7:48PM]

I know lets do a chkdsk /r on a page fault blue screen then reinstall the OS that should fix it.

go Utah

[Squishey @ May 16th 2007 7:50PM]

Hey Onijoo, it sucks at Dell doesn't it?

[onijoo @ May 16th 2007 7:56PM]

yea I hear you considering i am less than 20 feet from you but none the less, even one of the kids in our training class that passed never did any real troubleshooting on a physical machiene in person remember him, i agree on all accounts

[Squishey @ May 16th 2007 7:57PM]

Your battery won't hold a charge? This will solve the problem! Chkdsk /r! It always works!

[Ted @ May 16th 2007 8:01PM]

The only reason I'm still working here is for the $11/hr they pay, honestly, do you believe that I enjoy working with a bunch of retards(which 95% of them are)?

[Lisa @ May 16th 2007 8:22PM]

I purchased a Dell computer in March of 06 it stopped working by August. Called Dell 15 times, each time the techs asked me the same questions. Each time I told the techs that the previous person asked the same questions. Just like others, they had me replace parts. Finally I got someone who spoke English and after we went through everything again, he promised me a new computer. Guess what, they sent me a refurbished computer. So instead of making my monthly payments for my new computer, I'm paying for a refurbished one. Oh yeaH, I purchased the 3year extended warranty and service contract.
UGH!!!

[Squishey @ May 16th 2007 9:13PM]

By policy, Dell techs usually have to ask the same monotonous questions....I hate it.

[Squishey @ May 16th 2007 9:53PM]

I have to agree...Dell computers are about as reliable to the customer as Bob Dole's dong is to his wife.








Pretty disappointing....

[Squishey @ May 16th 2007 10:46PM]

I would, but as Dell policy states...that would get me fired and possible legal action taken against me...those are the breaks.

Maybe when I'm not at work, with my messages going through their servers...

[Pete D @ May 17th 2007 5:07PM]

Personally I think it is stupid to bash on Dell. All the computer companies pull this crap. Hell most large corporations pull this kinda crap on consumers. People need to get over it. Of course you have to troubleshoot things before they send a tech out. They need to know what they need to fix.

[larry mcsandals @ May 17th 2007 10:10PM]

i had a few dells before going mac, and i havta say it definatly is the major reason i turned mac. they still work but they crash in a few minutes after starting up. its not even that there are any viruses...
it mighta been the windows, or it mighta just been the horrible equipment. but i think its safe to say ill never buy another dell.

[RickW @ May 20th 2007 2:34PM]

Pete D said: "They need to know what they need to fix."

No. You buy service from them and it's THEIR responsibility to determine what needs fixing. It's part of the troubleshooting process, not part of the purchase agreement.

I am a Toshiba tech and have worked on printers, faxes, copiers, scanners, for over 18 years. You can't always rely on the customer to make your job easier. They are frustrated and want their equipment, that they paid good money for, to work. Our company has a 4 hour guaranteed response time for repairs. Even if you can't fix it the same day, at least you can give the customer peace-of-mind and tell them what the problem is, what it needs, and when you'll be back. If it's something THEY caused, it's out of warranty, but if they want to pay you to fix their mistake.. many do.

[J-Lu @ May 21st 2007 7:53PM]

Let's throw HP under the bus too. My company purchased a brand new ColorLaserJet with 4 hour service, they wouldn't come out and determine the problems until we did initial troubleshooting, problem was I am in Richmond, printer is at a jobsite in Atlanta. Cost us more money to get the troubleshooting done than when they finally deteremined they were going to replace the printer. All companies suck.

[GUY76 @ Jun 12th 2007 12:35AM]

1. Batteries are perishable period no matter what kind, or who you go with on any item. Sorry to get real with you.
2. "Chips" in the ink cartridges, don't know what your smoking, but pass it over.
3. Anyone who is stupid enough to believe there going send a tech out to your house for every little issue deserves what they get.
4. Tech support is in India get over it, or pay more. I'm sure if you dropped an extra two grand you can get an American that speaks Mo-ron. Oh you don’t want to drop an extra two grand, here’s an idea SHUT UP, or just go buy an HP or Gateway and talk to there tech support in India, then you can complain about that.