Looks like Apple is about to face its next date in court: a San Diego filing by private citizens Fred Greaves and Dave Gatley calls for a class-action lawsuit, accusing Cupertino of deceptive advertising with regard to the displays on its MacBook and MacBook Pro machines -- specifically alleging Apple's screens aren't nearly as good as they were advertised to be. Citing observances that MacBook (Pro) displays are too often "grainy" and "sparkly", that Apple uses dithering to achieve higher color depths than is feasible for the equipment, and that apparently customers seeking repair or replacement were rebuffed, even "chastised" by rogue Geniuses, telling users they are "too picky about... the quality of the display." So, will this lawsuit blend? Time -- but mostly lawyers -- will tell. [Warning: PDF link]
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
John Doe @ May 18th 2007 10:14AM
william,
Get bent you moron. This isn't a rumor. Click read to see the documentation. Fanbois need to be taken out and shot. They contribute nothing to society at large other then being a fucking lemming willing to run off a cliff for a brand. People like you who have no higher bring functions make me sick.
droopy1592 @ May 18th 2007 8:10AM
I was thinking about getting a macbook, but with all of the cracking and poor quality of the exterior... and now this, forget it.
The Milkman @ May 18th 2007 9:08AM
Really? Why don't you base your buying decisions on objective information instead of rumours en often exaggerated reports of failures?
We have both a MBP and black Macbook here and we couldn't be happier. So rest assured, at least some units work as advertised!
Jack Kelhoffer @ May 25th 2007 1:14PM
Don't fool yourself. Apple makes the best laptops around. Best software too. APPLE FOR LIFE!
slug @ May 18th 2007 8:27AM
Bloody money thieving minks!!
I hate it when folk do stuff like this, why dont they just send it back and get a refund or get it replaced?? "No, lets sue and see how much money we can make" when 90% of the time they get nothing.
...really, what is the point? a** hol*s
slug @ May 18th 2007 8:31AM
to droopy1592 ...
btw get a mac, beautiful machines! love mine macbook to bits!! and so does the other 99% of there owners.
yes there is a minority of faulty ones but if you buy your macbook brand new, i seriously doubt you will get any problems!! once you use osx for the first time....your hooked :)
derek @ May 18th 2007 8:43AM
yeah, i've never heard of this problem... and the reason you don't hear more good stuff is that people don't post about how great something is, only problems
Matt @ May 18th 2007 9:19AM
Let me be the first to tell you that this problem is real then. I have a huge bright band at the bottom of my C2D MBP 17", and Apple keeps telling me it's 'in-spec' even though I've never seen ANY laptop with such a wide backlight band.
Matt @ May 18th 2007 8:44AM
Slug,
The point of the lawsuit is that Apple wouldn't replace the screens or give refunds. If you read through the lawsuit, you'll see that many people tried to get Apple to do the right thing but failed. If you ever have to deal with a repair at Apple, you'll know what they're talking about.
Ryan G. @ May 18th 2007 9:07AM
Obviously, based on his grammar, slug don't read too good.
Christina @ May 18th 2007 2:35PM
@ Matt
>If you ever have to deal with a repair at Apple, you'll know what they're talking about.
Not me. I returned a Powerbook to Apple because the HD didn't work (it had slipped down from the washing machine and fallen on a corner..)
They returned it, repaired of course (new HD) within 3 days.
I had 2 shuffles (1st gen.) that had the same funky problem (and in retrospect I could have solved it, but I never read the manual). Got 2 new ones at the genius bar within 3 minutes.
Friend had the 1st gen. 17" and problems with the monitor. After 2 replacements, Apple gave him a new machine.
PS, Sounds like a lot of devices, but I think I have or had about 15 macs and 25 ipods by now.
scott @ May 18th 2007 2:39PM
idk, i've always had great response from apple. I was unlucky with an ipod photo, i had to send it in 5 times. well on the last time, it broke the day after i got it, so i called apple and they said they're sending me an ipod video (30gig.) i was like holy s##$ and then around 2-3 weeks later, i got an 80gig in the mail, it wasnt by mistake. there was a letter saying basically "sorry for the wait/problems. enjoy your new 80 gig ipod, etc." i've loved apple ever since.
johnzilla @ May 20th 2007 10:17AM
Totally not true. My repair experience with Apple was the best I've experienced with any company whatsoever, tech or not.
I shipped my Powerbook out on a Monday afternoon, they replaced the motherboard and had it back to me (in my hands) Thursday afternoon the same week. Totally free of charge (thanks to AppleCare). Could not ask for more from any company, and much better than anything Dell or HP has ever done for me.
The only hardware service I've experienced that was just as good was IBM, but that was for minis and mainframes, not PCs.
Adam @ May 20th 2007 11:10PM
I've had to deal with two repairs through Apple, both painless and both went faster than I'd have imagined.
No, I don't know what you're talking about.
Cupajo @ May 18th 2007 8:47AM
Any company that calls it's sales rep 'geniuses' is full of shit.
Brad @ May 18th 2007 8:53AM
You apparently are a PC fanboy. If you've never dealt with Apple support in the stores, how would you know? They are some of the best techs in the business.
John Doe @ May 18th 2007 10:17AM
"Any company that calls it's sales rep 'geniuses' is full of shit."
Cupajo,
Well its a good thing then that geniuses aren't sales reps. Oh but you would know that if you had even the most vaguest idea of what the hell you were talking about. I love the net. You don't need to be an expert at anything to talk shit about something. *slams head into keyboard*
nikster @ May 18th 2007 8:47AM
I got my Powerbook screen replaced for nigh invisible horizontal lines. Those pissed me off when doing photo work though. It was not easy but Apple replaced the display.
Now I found my Acer has the same problem - don't use it for photo work but thought I might as well get it fixed. Acers response: No chance. They won't do it.
XGM @ May 18th 2007 8:48AM
Say wha ? I have a MBP and the screen is the best one ive seen till now. Heck our university bought about 1,000 of them and sold them all in a week, and nobody has had any problems. Well except my freind who happened to drop it while it was open, and now has a nice dent on it, but it did survive the fall.
fashionista @ May 18th 2007 11:19AM
If you think an Apple laptop screen is great, you have never used a WUXGA screen from Dell (or Acer, or Sony, or...). I recently switched to a MacBook Pro at work and it is the worst display I have ever used on a laptop. It's grainy, has poor resolution (1440x900, and they call it "pro"?!), it's dull, and the backlight bleeds all around the edges. Our 4 year old ThinkPads look better. That said, the lawsuit as presented in this post seems like buyer's remorse gone mad.
Eric @ May 18th 2007 8:59AM
You apparently are a Mac Fanboy. A "Genius" has 2 canned responses.
"That's under warranty, give it to me and in 2 weeks you'll get a refurbed one"
-or-
"That's not under warranty, but we have a new model..."
Mark @ May 18th 2007 3:21PM
Best in the business? HA! you have obviously not spent enough time in the business. Here, we've taken to calling the Genius Bar, the "Petulant Assh*le Bar" They are not "geniuses" they are morons who get a few extra weeks of training. Plain and simple.
Evan @ May 18th 2007 8:53AM
My Compaq tablet PC had the most "gainy", "sparkly" LCD display ever! But I don't remember any class action suits against Compaq/HP.
A-ron @ May 18th 2007 12:11PM
To add to what Josh said -
Larger Apple Stores (Fifth Ave, Chicago, etc.) actually do repairs in-house. Your computer never leaves the building.
_and_
The only thing ever replaced with a refurb is an iPod. Because there are too many of them and getting them apart and back together needs to be done somewhere intended for that purpose.
Miles Smith @ May 18th 2007 12:57PM
My guess is this... morons who buy "glossy" screened laptops, are asking for exaggerated, sparkly and grainy. Professionals who buy their laptops as tools instead of bling opt for the matte screens. When Apple talks about the quality of their displays,it's generally going to refer to the matte varieties as these are the ones targeted toward the creative community (the pickiest market of all).
As for Genius Bar turn around times for replacement, my experience has been more on the order of two days, not two weeks! Try and get that response from Dell!
The bottom line is... there are always assholes who buy a great product with the intention of being dissatisfied so they can sue the well-healed manufacturer.
zerocypher @ May 18th 2007 4:07PM
Lets try and remember that every company has issues with manufacture defects and scrutiny from overbearing users. Under the circumstances I do agree with the lawsuit based on the fact the client has the choice to exchange the unit upon pickup for something that is more to their liking. Any person the purchases electronics of any type should know that you test the machine in the store prior to bringing it home. This reduces the risk of being subject to company policy once the unit has left the store. This is lawsuit is about being lazy and not wanting to be proactive. Concerning the comment about PC vs. MAC fan boy flames: you both need to understand the industry first before making rash judgments based on marketing and media. I my self service both platforms as well as several other proprietary technologies and I can tell you from my numbers that Macs suffer the same manufacture defects that any other platform would regardless the OS. Apple’s service is, however, more adept at handling your problem then any run of the mill PC service tech that you can find in your local area. The reason being that the technicians that service Apple hardware and software have to undergo a barrage of tests and certification just to be able to obtain parts and other internal support from apple. This does not hold true for companies such and Geek Squad/Best buy. The comment about “geniuses” is fundamentally flawed by the fact that you actually believe that someone somewhere bestowed such a title based on IQ or other aptitude testing. The title is merely a marketing device to create comfort and trust in their company. The same would go for the Geek Squad Agents, If you actually think that their title was granted by some federal agency based on rigorous training and testing, your cognitive abilities are suffering severe bouts of psychosis and you should seek immediate attention. In summation; one should remember that you are buying a product that needs to be checked in the store for defects and exchanged immediately for a product that is up to spec. Case is point, would you buy a car and take it home without driving it first? It’s your money and your time, waste it however you wish, but when you fall victim to your own ignorance and lethargy don’t go crying to your lawyer. The only thing he is going to do is take advantage of the fine qualities that got you there.
Steve @ May 18th 2007 9:02AM
"Brad @ May 18th 2007 8:53AM
You apparently are a PC fanboy. If you've never dealt with Apple support in the stores, how would you know? They are some of the best techs in the business."
And YOU'RE obviously a kool-aid drinking ass. People are being too picky about the display? For that kind of money, you're danm right I'm picky about the display.
Adam @ May 21st 2007 12:53PM
Didn't you look at it before you bought it? Numbskull
Steve @ May 22nd 2007 2:37AM
I don't own one of these shitty things
David @ May 18th 2007 9:04AM
I think Apple's quality has went down hill lately from what I've heard and experience myself
I have had to have my battery replaced and have them replace the screen and dvd drive in the last couple weeks, and now I am about to call them to complain about the job they did (the lcd bezel is coming loose, guessing from laziness when they replaced the screen last week), I think I should get a new MacBook because of this crap, and then after that maybe sell it and buy a Thinkpad or Vaio SZ
also, their CS department sucks compared to most I've experienced. It took multiple tries over two days to get someone decent, and they are way too pushy with the extended warranty, which there is no one I'm going to buy given my experience with their support so far.
*notices it's 9AM*, time to call Apple, again
Fredi Bach @ May 18th 2007 9:06AM
"I got my Powerbook screen replaced for nigh invisible horizontal lines. Those pissed me off when doing photo work though. It was not easy but Apple replaced the display."
I had the same problem with one of my 30" displays. The problem always disappeared after about an hour when the screen got warm. Apple sent me a new one without any problems after just three days, over the weekend!
Fredi
chris @ May 18th 2007 9:07AM
The MacBook display is just fine for its product class. It's significantly brighter and more saturated than those in the iBooks and 12" PowerBook.
On the other hand, the MacBook Pro display is crap, especially for its class. In the three models I've examined, the backlighting was terribly uneven, the color wasn't very saturated and there was a noticeable shift in color towards the bottom of the display. The displays were also rather grainy (much like the 20" Apple Cinema Display). I was so disappointed in the display that I settled for a basic MacBook. And I'd argue its display is actually better than the MacBook Pros.
I have a four year old 867MHz PowerBook G4 that has a much better display than both the MacBook and MacBook Pro. This doesn't seem right. You'd think over time, the displays would get better. Not worse.
John Easton @ May 18th 2007 9:29AM
my macbook is ther best thing iv ever spent money on :) its my first mac and it was love at first sight :p previously i owned a dell laptop, an hp laptop and a custom built pc built by yours truely. both laptops sent back for refunds because of problems.
iv had my mac for 6 months, iv droped it, spilt water on it, stood on it. (yes im clumsy :p) but no problems.
the only bad thing i have to say about it is it didnt come with enough ram, but that was sorted with a quick trip down to my local computer store.
So buy one, its the best laptop you can buy at the moment in my opinion.
johnnyderm @ May 18th 2007 9:41AM
Love my macbook. Just switched from PC. Thing is simply amazing. Can't say enough good things.
Dan Beach @ May 18th 2007 9:43AM
The screen on the MacBook Pro is fantastic. The support at my local apple store (Orlando) has been knowledgable and efficient. A bad keyboard was replaced instantly. While there arfe occasional flaws in any product, this issue smells of predatory lawyers, customers who think they can make a quick buck, and ... dare I say it ... Ballmer (a poor man's Karl Rove).
Jason @ May 18th 2007 9:49AM
Just to add to the list of people that are actually satisfied with their MacBooks, I, and two of my friends are all very happy with ours, especially the displays. Once again it's a case of the anti something crowd who speaks much louder.
I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that Apple isn't the only company to have made a bad product or two in a production line.
MacPoo @ May 18th 2007 10:02AM
I really wish all of these Mac prima donnos that complain about every-little-fucking-thing they can would just fuck off to the PC side. They're a worthless vocal minority that makes all Mac users look bad. Hey assholes, it's a fucking computer!
brutha @ May 18th 2007 10:07AM
Cupajo @ May 18th 2007 8:47AM
Any company that calls it's sales rep 'geniuses' is full of shit.
^^^^^^^^^
I agree
Chris @ May 18th 2007 1:04PM
So do I, except Apple's geniuses aren't sales reps so I guess they get a pass.
Whiplash @ May 18th 2007 10:07AM
I am so tired of this crap. It's lawsuits like this that are ruining American businesses. You know folks, If you don't like the freaking screen, send the damn thing back to Apple and go buy a Dell. That's called freedom of choice, excersize it.
And I highly question whether Apple is having any more problems with thier hardware than anyone else. Any manufacturing process is going to have a certain percentage of faulty goods. It's called reality folks.
Besides, I personally do now know anyone who has ever had a problem with any mac they've owned. I've owned three myself and never have had an issue. Are others having issues, I'm sure of it. But as a percentage of all machines sold, I'm sure it's a VERY small number. If it wasn't, Apple stock wouldn't be at $110 right now.
Tanen Kiriyami @ Jul 19th 2007 5:44PM
"I am so tired of this crap. It's lawsuits like this that are ruining American businesses. You know folks, If you don't like the freaking screen, send the damn thing back to Apple and go buy a Dell. That's called freedom of choice, excersize it."[SIC]
What!?
it is suits like this which have shaped American business.
Apple sold the MacBook Pro as a device posessing an 8 bit RGB Liquid Crystal Display screen. Since, it is clearly not an 8 bit screen, as it has been tested as being 6 bit, this is false advertising. Which is Illegal.
"If it wasn't, Apple stock wouldn't be at $110 right now."
The iPhone just debuted and was a success. That's why the stock is so high. Apple DOES have other products.
The percentage of people who will notice the problem is relatively small when compared to the market at large but when compared to the target market of the MacBook Pro it is much greater than it seems. It may be a small group but it is the group with the most to lose to this underhanded tactic
Cupajo @ May 18th 2007 10:32AM
Sales reps. Tech support. Whatever the fuck they are, they are far from "geniuses". Yes, I have a Mac. Yes, I've had to deal with these clowns. No, they are not geniuses.
Alejandrus @ May 18th 2007 10:19AM
If you want step by my place and I will show you a high-end Apple laptop computer for which I paid arround $2300 that has been five (!) times for repair whithin warranty for major issues (display, 3 mother boards, top-case). I have neer ever seen such a big failure rate in a laptop.
I agree with the post that if you have ever dealt with Apple repair support (at least in Europe) you would understand why the class action suit. I wish they would exist in Europe.
Phil @ May 18th 2007 10:21AM
It's one thing to have a crappy display on a PC, but one of Apple's biggest target markets are all the web designers, graphic designers, photographers, and filmmakers for which a good, nay, excellent display is crucial.
Apple has made a big hoopla about their displays for quite a while now, and they certainly charge you for it. They're running up against the likes of Planar, NEC, and Eizo with their MacBook Pro and Cinema Displays with what they cost, so there just aren't any excuses.
Come on Apple, get your crap together.
DBX00 @ May 18th 2007 10:25AM
If enough people have issues to justify a "class action" lawsuit, then there is something behind the problem. At any rate, I have a Macbook Pro and Mac Mini; the display on the Macbook Pro is far from top of the line. I've seen some Dell laptops with displays that whip the floor with my screen. Apple computers are nice to look at but they are far from the most dependable products on the market. I still can't figure out why they still make the thing out of aluminum that can withstand the slightest tap against a hard surface when hot. For the most part, the computer works great but I've had my share of problems with my past Apple computers and the CS reps (I refuse to call them geniuses) don't know any more than the average rep.
RRP @ May 23rd 2007 11:52PM
I took a look at the discussion forums concerning screen problems with the Powerbook on Apple's website recently. It turns out there are a number of people who have reported problems with the MP screens. My sister is one of them and she is now outside of warranty. One very disturbing bit of information I got from the Apple forum is a customer who stated that Apple removed a string of complaints about this problem from their website. That, if true, is absolutely dispicable of any company, let alone Apple.
If there is a sytemic problem they should face it. And if they choose to ignore it then litigation is the little man's alternative.
kev @ May 18th 2007 10:43AM
OBJECTION!
Joshua Ochs @ May 18th 2007 10:53AM
I would have to agree with select posters. The MacBook (non-Pro) screens are excellent for a low-end laptop. The MacBook Pro (15-inch) screens in my experience have been excellent as well (typing on one right now). The MacBook Pro (17-inch) screens on the other hand - wow, are they bad for such a high-end laptop. Even in-store models that you'd think would want to show off the best look awful, even side-by-side with other Mac laptops.
Also, when grousing, please recall that there are two different types of displays you can have installed in a current-gen MacBook Pro - matte and glossy - so please be sure you're taking this into account.
Brian @ May 18th 2007 11:05AM
The only problem I have with Apple screens is their lack of hi-res panels. All the other manfucturers will let you get high-dpi panels. I understand their reasoning, I just think it sucks.
david @ May 18th 2007 11:26AM
It is threads like this that convince me there's no intelligent life on earth