Vista CableCARD Media Center PCs - what do you want to know?
By Ryan Block 
posted May 21st 2007 9:08PM
posted May 21st 2007 9:08PM
How does it compare to a TiVo Series3?
Well, the functionality of a Vista CableCARD Media Center is obviously quite similar, since at its core it's a CableCARD DVR. But as anyone who's played with a Media Center knows, there are plenty of nice perks to Microsoft's interface (like movie guides, web browsing, Media Center plugins, interfaces for things like Vongo and MTV, etc.). Assuming the machine you're getting has some horsepower, usage is seamless and everything is zippy and looks great up on the big screen -- unlike the S3's often-wonky not-so-HD menus and occasional lag.
Of course, for this extra power you're going to pay extra cash. A Series3 can be had for as little as $500 in some cases, whereas the price on the Dell XPS 410 we tested was upwards of $3400 (including the 24-inch display). Granted, you don't have to pay monthly fees with your Media Center PC like you do with TiVo, but a couple grand for a DVR is still a spicy meatball, so be sure you can do other things with it, too.
Was it easy to set up?
Well, that depends on a lot of things -- as we learned first-hand, there are just so many variables (moving parts, if you will) with a system like this. You've got a lot of failure points between a PC with Vista, your cable company and its cable lines to your place, the CableCARD and supporting that, the ATI tuner(s), and then how all that connects to your home theater rig. Assuming all that works ok (which only one of our two machines did), then it's a cinch. Definitely doable for your average-to-technically-inclined level user. No surprise, but we still wouldn't turn this over to our moms, like we might with a TiVo.
How much can users expect the DCTs to run?
Prices, as we understand it, haven't been firmly set in stone by ATI yet. Users should be able to expect to pay in the range of $250 for a tuner unit though. We wish we had a firmer idea, but assuming worst-case scenario, that's $500 for dual tuners.
How's the Xbox 360 integration? Is there lag and skipping?
It's awesome. It looks nearly identical to the native Media Center interface, unlike previous Media Center Extender implementations. Granted, you still won't be able to use extended codecs (like DivX, XviD, etc.) on your 360, but watching live and recorded HDTV was nearly the same experience. When fast forwarding, rewinding, and changing channels there's an oh-so-slightly delay as the stream rebuffers, but honestly we probably wouldn't notice or care too much if that was our normal setup.
We tested two Xbox 360s on our home network, both connected via 100Mbps Ethernet; our PC streamed a different HD stream to each Xbox simultaneously while also recording and playing a third HD stream on its main head. For the curious, network usage peaked at about 55%, but hovered around 25-40% with both streams; CPU never jumped higher than 50% usage when working with all three HD streams.
How do you get one?
Microsoft tells us most of its OEM partners are shipping very, very soon. You can order a high performance model from Velocity or Niveus now, though.
Can't I just add a cable card tuner to my Vista box?
Sorry, no. Vista CableCARD boxes are special units certified to meet CableLabs spec; they're loaded with special firmware, and the tuners are only sold with the units. Assuming you did get your hands on a tuner, you'd still have to figure out a way to hack that firmware onto your unit. Unfortunately, unless someone comes up with something crazy we just don't see how it can be done, short of buying a new unit. Yes, we're as totally bummed about this as you are. Blame CableLABS and their obsession with DRM.
Can you record TV to an external hard drive or NAS?
As long as it's an addressable drive to Windows, you can store your media there. Just needs to be connected with something fast enough to handle the throughput, so don't use a USB 1.1 drive (duh) or a 100Mbps NAS if you're recording and streaming multiple HD streams.
If you have two DCTs are you limited to two separate channels to your xbox?
You can only tune as many live channels as you have tuners for, but you can stream as many recordings as you have horsepower / bandwidth for. So assuming three people are watching on a two-tuner setup, at least one of those streams needs to be pre-recorded, unless two people are watching the same live TV stream in different rooms.
How big are the .ms-dvr files (for, say, 30 or 60 minutes of video)?
Video filesize depends most on what the content is and at what resolution it's broadcast. Everything is recorded and stored, generally, as MPEG-2 streams -- this isn't new to Vista CableCARD boxes. As you'd imagine, programs with less visual information compress better, and programs in SD are smaller than their HD counterparts. Still, here's a general sense of what you can expect (remember, your mileage may vary):
60 minute HD: 6-10GB as recorded (can vary, depending on type of HD, etc.); we had a 6.5 and an 8.8GB 1 hour HD program, so YMMV.
30 minute HD: divide above by two.
60 minute SD: 2.5-3GB+
30 minute SD: divide above by two.
How big are the .ms-dvr files (for, say, 30 or 60 minutes of video)?
That's sick. Now how about Microsoft gets to streaming TV to it's windows mobile units without the need of Slingbox?
Damn consumers. We always want more than what's available.
In France, with the ISP called "Free", we have the opportunity to stream the IPTV we get on every mobile device that can handle VLC (VideoLan) player: it is also possible to watch TV direclty from the so-called "freebox" and simultaneously watch other channels on other laptops (limit being the bandwidth of both wifi/ethernet and internet connection, but since they're using MPEG-4 now instead of MPEG-2, you can at least hope for 2 or 3).
First "problem": you can only stream the channels on your local network. You cannot access it from another external IP who is not from the same ISP.
Second problem : it doesn't fit into Windows Media Center ... there is in fact a dedicated box (DVR, etc. kind of TiVo if you want) which is free at subscription. Not as good as Media Center, but it does its job ...
Just go to orb.com and install the mycast app. You can now stream to any pc in the world or to your Windows Mobile phone. Mine works great. Plugs right into Media Center
Orb's Mycast will actually stream to other mobile devices as well. I'm using it with a Samsung Sync from AT&T. All that's required is either HTTP streaming or RTSP streaming (I think it will do a couple other versions as well).
Oh, and it will automatically down-convert your streams so that you're not pushing an HD quality stream to your 320x240 screen (waste not).
There is only one relevant question, and that is, when, and how, can we dump full-resolution HD shows to unprotected files on an arbitrary location ?
(ie. when can I dump a full-res, non-DRM show to my unix fileserver)
None of this matters, none of this is useful, none of this is worth anything until there is a useful answer to the above question. I don't care how many disks you put in your lame MCE - either you control those shows for the long run or you don't.
It doesn't matter how cute your MCE+ATI+xbox toolchain is - crippled is crippled.
/Second
And a somewhat related question,
Can you share the video files with another OEM CableLabs certified Vista box? Or is the DRM tied to the CPU itself? I think I can already know the answer.
Follow up: Is "making me cry" in CableLabs mission statement?
I don't agree at all, I don't need to share the recordings I make. I watch them, then delete them, they're for my personal use only. I do see your point that people want to do that, and I'm not against it, but you can't say there is no other use for it.
How do you get one? I'm assuming they are still only coming OEM, but what machines/companies offer them?
May I add, it always make me smile reading Engadget articles about Cable-card enabled Vista PC! You seem so obsessed with it ! Like THE big problem of the 21st century :-)
My biggest question is whether I can or can't just add a cable card tuner to my Vista box. I've got a new Dell Dimension E521 AMD Athlon X2 4000 (2.1GHz) with 2G ram. What's it gonna take to add cable card to this baby?
Same question as Eric. Can you add an ATI DCT to a "non CableLabs Certified" Media Center. Seriously, if you guys have an extra Vista Media Center around, can you plug it in and have it work on a machine other than the Dell XPS 410?
It's in the article. You can't just do that, blame Cable Card. I've been building MCE systems since the first release, and been building OTA HD for over two years. I'm very disappointed that this is the way things have turned out, but I also understand why things have turned out this way.
What works for me right now, is using a SiliconDust HDHomeRun. This let's me get the QAM 256 programming straight from digital cable, but I can't get encrypted digital programming. You need OCUR to do that. I can live with this for now, I have close to 80 digital channels and still use an STB for recording HBO in analog. It'd be nice to have pay channels in HD, but for now I don't care. Unless pay cable channels can learn how to make this easy and resonable, they're going to loose me as a customer.
For my money, hopefully Microsoft improves the QAM story since I feel like I'm still reliving the ATSC beta experience. My setup right now works -- it could be better -- but at least I get HD content for 90% of what I care about, digital for another 9% that isn't available on HD stations, and I'm weening myself from that remaining 1%. After the Sopranano's wraps in 3 weeks, I'm going to have to have a serious heart to heart with my cable provider.
Unless you absolutely need ESPN, Discovery, HBO, or one of the countless other premium HD channels, you may want to consider other alternatives. A QAM tuner with BDA drivers and a remap tool fits my budget and eliminates the DRM crap that comes with OCUR.
Can recorded CableCard HDTV shows be transcoded for portable media centers and/or windows mobile phones via WMP (like the standard def and OTA HDTV recordings can)? Can the CableCard shows (live and recorded) be streamed over the internet via Orb?
How does the HD picture look in comparison to over-the-air HDTV? I know my cable company's HD picture isn't as good as my over-the-air HD picture, but I don't have CableCARD at all so I don't know if it's compressed the same way it is to a STB.
Here are a couple of questions for you:
1) Can you record TV to an external hard drive or NAS?
2) If you have two DCTs, are you limited to two separate channels to your xbox? Can I watch Lost live downstairs while my wife watches Medium live upstairs while recording the NBA play-offs?
You can record or live stream two shows and then watch a recorded show but not a 3rd live one. This is the case with tivo or any thing else but you can add a OTA for another tuner.
I have a Sony VGX-XL3 that I installed by my lonesome with a clueless Comcast tech. Had some initial issues related to the ATI card not being able to re-authenticate on a reboot, but a few firewall settings and a cleaner Wi-Fi signal later, everything seeems to be working fine. Occasional jitteryness on live HD but none on recorded HD. May have something to do with down converting 1080i streams to 720p component on my older Samsung DLP (DVI connector is not HDCP compliant) as 720p (eg ABC, ESPN...) seems fine. Also, added Buffalo Drive Station 500 GB external usb to move recorded movies etc... and it works great. At 8.5 GB a movie (2 hours or so) for HD, allows ample storage. Will keep you posted.
Sadly I don't need the box to answer most of these questions.
No you can't upgrade a existing box at this, or any likely any, future time to be cable lab compliant and unlock the vista cable card function. Blame the sluts that run cable labs and who hate all of us with their black little accountant whore hearts. OEM only boxes, small system builders need not apply and absolutely no hobbyists.
DRM is invasive to vista. You can't dump the shows to anything and you can only play them back on certified extenders, that being only the xbox 360 right now.
Picture is source dependent crap HD from comcast etc, crap MCE pictures and vice versa the, codecs in play are pretty good so it's not going to make a great picture noticeable worse (in my experience).
No soft sled or whatever you want to call it, nor is their likely to be one (probable because of cable labs but maybe because of MS *shrug*) so no MCE won't let you play back flagged DRM on other vista boxes even if they are Cable labs certed, only extenders. Feel free to join the long list of people swearing about this, your in good company. Oddly MS was recently touting Sage TV's ability to do this very thing, go figure.
$3400 for a consumer PC today? That is some quality crack. Oh wait nobody asked that
one.
Sure most of the stupid shit will get hacked eventually. At least I hope so the current situation is pretty lame, and shows what happens when you roll over and show your soft underside to the IP wolves out there to get a seat at the table.
My understanding is the current registry hack that lets you record to a network share won't work on the cable labs PC but that would be a great question for the Engaged folks to answer. I would also be interested in if you record DRM shows to a windows home server share since those are supposed to interpolate more seamlessly.
You haven't had to use a network hack for some time I believe... You might have to mount the NAS as a drive letter first, I don't recall.
The problem is that the .dvr-ms file is machine dependant for playback. Today, if you take a show you recorded that had CGMS-A, copy the file to a CD, and take it to a friend's house, you won't be able to play it back. Using the network storage location gets you the same deal. You might be able to watch the programming elsewhere, but if it has the CGMS-A or was something recorded from the OCUR tuner, you can only play it back on the MCE that recorded it in the first place. The network "share" is just going to cause confusion.
For this reason, a single MCE with a bunch of extenders works the best. The MCE "server" is recording and playing back content while the extender devices (xbox 360's) are terminals.
Don't mean to appear stupid but does cablecard work with DirectTV or just Comcast...
This is a CableCo thing.
DirecTV does things differently in both how the signal is encoded and tuned. There has been rumor about Microsoft working with DirecTV for a PC tuner since Media Center was first created, you might get your wish one day, but I don't know if that would support SD and HD, or if it would have any of the same restrictions as something recorded using OCUR. Personally, I think Vista provides much of the plumbing and OCUR a model for something like this to happen, but for now, this is a Cable only thing.
I'm begining to think I should have my own MCE Blog/Q&A, I had no idea there was so much confusion out there about requirements and how it all fits together.
Popular rumor is that that a version update to MCE will be out late 2007 (probable more like 3007) that will allow for D*TV and Dish, but it's anyone's guess if this is real or not or what he distro model will be. I would be pretty happy if I coul get sat over comcast and then add a two OTA tuners for my local HD.
are the files recorded in hd compatible with ORB streamer? -thanx guys
My only question after waiting for CableCard in Vista and then reading that it requires a brand new PC: is it really worth the price/hassle or should I just get a Tivo Series 3 and live with the monthly fee?
If you pull the CableCard out can you tune/record Clear QAM?
I understand that's possible but I don't have clear QAM to test it with, just analogue.
It was my understanding that MCE dose not support clear QAM, though lots of other packages do.
Where are you? In the US, aren't all local HD channels supposed to be broadcast clear? I know Comcast here broadcasts locals, digital simulcasts, and music channels in the clear. At least, they did when I last checked.
I have Comcast, in SF... was under the impression there isn't clear QAM here, will give it a try for ya.
My problem is that I am unable to play my MPEG-4 packaged videos in Windows Media Center in Windows Vista Ultimate. I have Vista Ultimate 64-bit installed on a Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4GHz dual core CPU. I got this set up specifically to play my DVD’s which I transcoded to H.264 using Nero recode (Nero Digital AVC – HDTV profile) .
I can see the thumbnails and times, but when I try to play them I get either a codec missing error or usually they just play green interlaced garbage.
I tried a bunch of suggestions, but most seem to not all be applicable to the 64-bit Vista (surprise, surprise). I have installed ffdshow 64 bit (ffdshow64-rev2546.exe ), which seemed to help, and I have tweaked the registry of course to recognize the file extentions. By the way, everything plays fine in VLC and even play fine in WMP 11, JUST not in Windows Media Center!
?What do I want to know? When can use them under Linux?
thank you! I have Comcast in Seattle and I get Clear QAM channels, but they seem to be numbered all weird.
edward-
try installing the vista codec pack, 64 bit edition, should fix your problem
Hi, my big question right now is how will HD streaming work over wifi? Eespecially since MS has not even announced an 802.11n adapter for the 360 far as i know. I was thinking about the Dlink N bridge router, but that doesnt seem to be out yet. I currently have an airport running 802.11n and an old g airport extending it as a WDS. the g is running wep and mac security, since the xbox wont play nice with the airport wpa.
When I run the "Tune Network" applet from the extender or the vista pc, it shows my signal strength hovering above the line it says is required for HD. Can you test your 360 using the standard wireless card and a good strong 802.11g signal? I want my cablecard pc in the office so i can use it for gaming and stuff... just so i can justify spending 3 grand on a pc i could build for half that.
My setup is fine for standard tv and everything else the 360 does, but i have trouble believing it will work well for HD.
S1Digital has a Vista CableCARD FAQ here: http://www.s1digital.com/About_CableCARD_s/75.htm
I couldn't agree more. If this is something you want to do, OCUR won't allow it... nothing does right now for that matter.
Using the SiliconDust HDHomeRun (and to be fair, there are other tuners, but this is the one I have and I can speak from experience about how well it works), I can record the transport stream and then manipulate it as easily as any other .dvr-ms file. As long as you use your MCE to transcode the files, you can manipulate them.
If you're asking if it is possible, it may be with an 802.11a network. Forget 802.11b, 802.11g was theoretically possible but not recommended for SD. 802.11a was the choice for MCE and extenders wirelessly. I don't believe that is supported for HD though.
802.11a has a theoretical badwidth of ~52Mb/s. High bandwidth HD streams clock in around 15-20Mb/s, but usually less. I'd say you might be able to get away with it, but I wouldn't count on it and certainly wouldn't recommend it. Wired still gives you the best results.
For my setup, I can record two HD streams while watching two, one on an extender and one on the MCE itself. During this, I have seen my 10/100 NIC running at 20-25% utilization. My 360 and the rest of my network are on a Gigabit network, but I've segmented things out to maximize the efficiency of my network infrastructure. I just don't think you'll have a very good experience over wireless today.
Actually, I currently record HD from the STB via Firewire. Everything I've recorded I've been able to stream to my Xbox 360 via the Xbox Wireless Adapter which is 802.11a, and my 802.11a access point.
That includes The Soprano's :)
That's awesome. :) I'm pretty sure that when we were testing v1
Is it possible to sync shows recorded using the digital cable tuners to a portable device?
motherlode questions:
-- how close does this get me to my 'dream' setup of one central DVR server for my whole house (no more dragging myself off the couch to watch something i recorded in the bedroom)?
-- can i log in remotely to program a recording (perhaps something a friend at work just told me would be on during that night's dinner at the in-laws)?
-- can i hook up a dvd jukebox to this server (no more dragging myself off the couch to search for a dvd i left in the bedroom, or was it the den)?
1) Yes, you can have one feed the whole house but every tv not directly hooked up to the server needs a extender(xbox360).
2) I think you can. This is handled with 3rd party apps to schedule over the internet or your phone etc.
3) I have not seen a jukebox that does this. Most people just rip their DVD's to their Media Centers HDD and jukebox it that way.
If the cable cards are small why are those ATI OCUR devices so big and UGLY?!?! Does each one only handle ONE cablecard?! WTF
They make PCI and two card models but yeah the base box is pretty funny with how giant it is. Getting the PCI reader seems like the only sane way to go IMO but maybe there are heat issues or something because right now everyone seems internet on doing do the full size box.
I'm about to buy the Vidabox LUX and i'm trying to work it out so I can have the dual cable card box in my bedroom and Xbox 360 elite clients in the living and game room. I was wondering if anyone knew of a way I could have the 360s start right to media center extender so I don't have to have my family navigate the 360 menus.
This DRM thing sucks donkey-dick. Until something better comes out(not holding my breath)I'm sticking with current set-up.
A. Recording DRM crap to my D-VHS from HD firewire cable box. I know, tape sucks, but I can keep the recordings forever, and play in any D-VHS player.
B. Recording non-DRM stuff to my OTA/QAM computer tuner. Again, I can keep it forever, share it, and play it on any computer.
The latest spring update for your Xbox 360 now allows you to boot to Media Center. It's in the console config section.
Could you confirm that adding an HDHomeRun to the system (well, connecting it) doesn't break the certification that allows the OCURs to run? There were some issues with upgrading the CPU floating about on the web, and I was curious how far that extended.
Looks like I'll be skipping CableCard tuners this time around. Maybe DCAS will turn out better...
MS has stated that two OCUR and two OTA are supported. I suspected if you hack past that you might have issues at some point.
I currently have a XBOX360, but I want to remove it from my setup, will there be video cards with HDMI output soon ( or maybe there are some that exist that I haven't been able to find )?
Here is my dilemma:
Right now is a horrible time to build/buy a new computer... a lot of standards are up in the air, especially if you are a media freak. HOWEVER, I HAVE to upgrade my rig in the next month, as my current one is a dinosaur...
I could skip the whole CableLabs certified ATI crap and go analog with OTA/HDHomeRun and maybe wait for a MCE DirectTV tuner to come out or even a standalone DCT... but then I'm left out in the cold if CableCARD/DCT catches on and I don't have one/can't get a standalone one... On the other hand, I could get a Dell/HP media center with DCT, pay extra $$$, have less upgradeability, but potentially get stuck with a dying CableCARD format... and $500 for 2 tuners!!
What is a computer geek to do!??!
So where di dyou get the rig from, and with what parts installed. What version of windows.
Model numbers and part numbers greatly appreciated
Can you have more than 2 cable card tuners. I know that none of the OEMs have the option, but say I purchased a second media center can I take the tuners and put them all on one system?
Where can we buy the the ATI CableCard tuners?
Cal
Can someone please explain why it is the cable company can tell me what tuner I can use, and what PC I can use that tuner with?!?!?!? This doesn't make any sense at all that cable labs can tell ATI not to sell me a tuner, and that if they do it can't work unless I make an offering at the MS vista altar... 47 different conspiracy theories come to mind right off the bat, but thought I should try to dwell in reality if possible...
Let me try that again... ;-)
That's awesome. I'm pretty sure that when we were testing v1 extender devices that the target platform was 802.11a only for SD content and since no extender devices supported HD that a wireless requirement was not even considered. Internally there was some discussion about what might be possible, but because the transport stream is unaltered and certainly not further compressed, that HD might exceed the working bandwidth of wireless systems from two years ago.
Today, there are wireless systems that combine multiple channels, providing over 100Mb/s theoretical, but that isn't an adopted standard really. If you can get HD to stream over that channel, I'd love to know both the bitrate of the source and what your connecting with exactly; if it is purely 802.11a, or if you aren't using one of those "cheating" devices that operate under 802.11a specs. Also, is this an urban, suburban, or rural environment? Do you have neighbors with wifi and if so how many and on what channels and signal strength do they opperate?
It's not to say that it isn't possible to make wireless streaming work, I'd just be careful suggesting that everyone will be able to do it so long as they have 802.11a.
I'm happy it works for you though.
OCUR? Probably never. The only reason Vista can, is that the system has encryption at all points in the system. All the DRM complaints in Vista that had everyone so up in arms a year ago, was so that this was even possible. There are several checks in the entire process that make sure that the system the tuners are on are certified by Cable Card, that the OS was installed with a specific key, and as I recall, it periodically calls home to make sure it can continue to opperate.
Trying to seperate that out to work on Linux is unlikely. If you want Cable Card, you play by their rules, or not at all.
You can have more than one OCUR tuner on a system. I believe if you look at the Dell site again, you can select two digital tuners.
On a side note. In an interview I read with ATi, they hate this deal with Cable Card as much as we do as consumers. If ATi had it their way, they'd sell us the tuners directly... they might still intend to do so. Dell has suggested that if you bought a 410 sans a tuner, that you would be able to add one at a later date. This would work because 1) their 410 system would have the appropriate BIOS to allow OCUR to work. 2) The OS that they install on that system when they sell it to you will have a Product Key that is in the range for approved OCUR tuners. Lastly, 3) all you will have to do is add 1 or 2 digital tuners.
Make note that the systems will still have to abide by steps 1 and 2 in the above scenario. This means that home builders and smaller OEM builders won't be able to create OCUR ready systems, but you might see larger PC manufacturers create systems that can be updated with OCUR.
MI said: Can someone please explain why it is the cable company can tell me what tuner I can use, and what PC I can use that tuner with?!?!?!?
The simple (and naive) answer is that they can't. You might even find a place to buy a tuner (ATi isn't the only manufacturer that is making these now, just the most prevalent and already to market). Now to approach this from the other direction, the cable company will send you the signal over the "cable" -- you are probably already receiving HD content today. It's the stuff in the middle that counts.
Cable Card is designed so that a DCR (Digital Cable Ready) television will be able to plug in the cable, plug in a Cable Card, and instantly watch whatever is being broadcast and allowed by your subscription. The allowed programming is encoded on the Cable Card and that provides the keys for decrypting the content. Because OCUR does not allow pay-per-view or on demand, it isn't a high priority for cable companies, and most of them will rent you a set top box that hooks up to that DCR television set. Cable Card certifies that each set they look at protects the signal, and does not provide a convenient way to pirate the content.
OCUR on a PC provides an interesting challenge. You have to use a combination of software and hardware to do the same thing TVs do in one cabinent. You might be able to save the stream to disk at any point in the process, so it is a "Piracy Threat" in the eyes of Cable Card and the content providers. Specific changes in how the data moves through the PC must be always encrypted, and Vista provides those changes. In order for Cable Card to certify the PC system, it must be a specific make and model that they have approved. It is a little like the FAA in their statement that cell phones could be used on commercial airliners without causing interference, but that every model cell phone allowed must be specificaly tested. To approve the PC, a special BIOS is created that works for that individual PC. The tuner, in order to comply, must check for that specific BIOS indicator, and the OS installed on the PC must be from a specific set of keys, thereby ensuring that it is the OS that Cable Card has certified. If any one of those pieces are out of alignment, you don't get OCUR on your PC.
Now, the cable company doesn't say if you can have a tuner or not, they just say that you must have a Cable Card certified system and Cable Card are only going to certify systems that they can go back to the content providers and certify are not going to promote piracy. Consumers are given the short end of the rope. You can either go with the system, or forego receiving content.
Here's the irony of the system as far as I'm concerned. It forces you to fit within the constraints of the system and offers you little options otherwise. If you choose not to watch Heroes on Monday nights, and would rather watch it on Tuesday on your way to work, you don't fit within the acceptable viewing patterns. For some people, the system that is in place will drive people to find content in unapproved of places. I subscribe to HBO... if I go find a copy of the Soprano's on BitTorrent so I can watch it on my cell phone, am I a pirate? According to the content owners, I am.
For what it's worth, I think Vista makes it possible for fewer people to be considered "pirates." I use that term loosely because I think the entertainment industry as a whole is largely behind the times. The fanatics and trend-setters are some of the largest supporters of content, but they are the ones who are unfairly criminalized for what should be considered fair use.
Sure, OCUR on Vista doesn't allow total freedom to manipulate your media. Your other option is nothing. I don't want to support OCUR on Vista because it suggests to the "powers that be," that consumers are OK with being treated like criminals. On the other hand, if I don't support OCUR on Vista, that will likely interpreted as consumers don't want choice. If we boycott movies, music, and television, will it send the right message, or will we instead sacrifice production quality on shows that we care about and would gladly support?
I just pre-ordered Heroes on HD-DVD, choosing to support both that show and the HD-DVD format... when I use a decryption tool on it to move it to a different format, I guess I'll be considered a pirate; I'll still sleep soundly that night.
Does this setup allow you to watch on-demand or ppv programs? I thought one of the disadvantages of using cablecard as opposed to a set top box was that cablecards did not allow 2 way communication with the cable system, and therefore on-demand and pay per view don't work. Thoughts? Facts?
Does it have this system have an OTA tuner as well as the cable card? If so, when you record a program that is offered on both tuners will it choose the drm'd cablecard or the OTA tuner? Do all cablecard tuned recordings get drm, or just specific programs/channels?
Okay, so the files are stored as DVR-MS files. But in XP MCE .dvr-ms isn't much of a format. You can strip it off with a simple filter installed in the codec chain. I'll ask the obvious question--can you use DirectShowDump (I think that's what its called) to strip off the DRM from a cable-card recorded show on Vista MCE?
I'll assume the answer is no. If you happen to know why (like the MPEG itself is still encrypted, and needs access to the cable card to decode itself), I'd appreciate that too. If so, I wonder how the streaming to XBox 360 works, since it obviously doesn't have a cable card to decode with... and whether you could simply capture the stream...
Far from me to try to be as knownledgeable as Ryan but here is a short overview of my experiences with a Sony XL3 that comes with 1 internal OCUR card and a Blu-ray read/write drive:
- without inserting a CableCARD in the system I can view or record NTSC, ATSC and Clear QAM signals. Notice the "or" between "view" and "record" as the system only has one TV Tuner... shame...
- I can even record all these programs to a blank Blu-ray disc
- the moment I pop in a CableCARD I can view or record the Cable content but cannot record it to Blu-ray
- I can, however, steam it (using Ethernet -- to address the point earlier about wireless) to my Xbox360.
- I can even watch the same file on the XL3 and the Xbox at the same time (sweet, no more watching the same TV show with the wife!)
- I can connect an external HDD and store content on it. I can see both the internally and externally recorded content in MCE
- BUT, I am unable to view the content stored on the external HDD on anotehr PC (as Ryan mentioned, the content protection behind OCUR is such that one has but limited "to go" scenarios -- in fact, it seems to be limited to the Xbox360).
this short summary is the result of personal trial and error as well as numerous hours on the phone with Cox and Sony.
here is some other stuff I have found out:
- you CANNOT buy a standalone OCUR device
- you can ONLY obtain it from a Cable Labs certified PC maker
- at this time, there are but limited options for CableCARD lovers: Sony, Dell, Niveus, Alienware
- also, I had some issues with CableCARD detection but a recent firmware upgrade from Ati resolved that
- now if Sony had shipped with 2 CableCARDS, had 1080p output, I would be a completely happy customer
- still, if you are looking for HD media hub, I recommend this product
My bedroom and media room are on opposite sides of the same wall... can I connect two different displays (mounted on opposite sides of that same wall) to the same PC and have them each act as independent consoles?
If so, how would Media Center handle a potential tug-o-war with the tuners?
Two questions:
-Anyone have details/expereince with power consumption during recording? Does the whole system need to be up and running to record, or is there some state between sleep and full power that a vista cablecard system can be in to record shows, particularly HD shows? In short, does this thing have to be running at full power all the time to replace my crappy cableco DVR?
-Anyone know of a list of current or soon to be makers for cablecard vista media centers? The list I know of so far is definetly: Dell, S1Digital, Niveus, Sony, Vidabox and Velocity
Probably: Alienware, Life|ware
Were you guys able to set up two tuners on the same computer? I have two external ATI Digital Cable Tuners. They work fine individually, but when both are connected neither works. Are there any known issues with this?