Palm Foleo hands-on

We just got our grubby little paws on that new Palm Foleo. We'll give you one guess about what we think. Ok, ok, look, it's an interesting device and an interesting concept, and we're long-time Palm fans. We like the scroll wheel, the keyboard and screen were very nice, and the browser works excellently (and with Flash! see the gallery). It's wonderful that it works so well with your phone and all of that business, but we just can't get behind this one. We need a better Treo, or we need a Foleo or like device that replaces your Treo -- we don't want both. No ifs, ands, or buts. We already have a laptop, and when you consider the fact that this thing is about the size and weight of a Dell X1 (ok, maybe a little larger), the user just doesn't have a whole lot of reason to take one of these home. Ah whatever, Palm never listens to us anyway. Enjoy the gallery!

Gallery: Palm Foleo hands-on

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[Mchacur @ May 30th 2007 3:15PM]

I totally agree with you Ryan.

I ask myself if the folks at Palm spent 5 minutes interviewing executives about what they really want and need.

Now I'm certain that Palm is doomed. Good news Apple.

[David Lawrence @ May 30th 2007 3:15PM]

allow me to be the first to say - meh.

[au1397 @ May 31st 2007 5:59PM]

i second the meh.

[nemi @ May 30th 2007 3:17PM]

...or by a samsung Q1-Ultra for $700 and have a real PC.

[Matt W. @ May 30th 2007 3:18PM]

Didn't MSFT introduce a similar class of devices about a decade ago? Weren't they a spectacular failure? What makes Palm think a second go around will work?

[Dan @ May 30th 2007 3:18PM]

Oh I agree. I want an all in one device, not two. But, what sets this apart is the $500 minus $100 MIR.

I'll be keeping my laptop though, thanks.

[carlo @ May 30th 2007 3:20PM]

i'm so frustrated.

[Evander @ May 30th 2007 3:21PM]

Looks like a palm tombstone to me.

[Ray-- @ May 30th 2007 3:33PM]

this says it all:

"Palm Founder Sells Shares"
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/070530/palm_insider_transactions.html?.v=1

[Jean-Michel Decombe @ May 30th 2007 4:15PM]

Bah, it's only 15,000 shares. Maybe he just needed to sell those to buy a couple of Foleos for his immediate family or something.

[Scott Schneider @ May 31st 2007 9:58AM]

also- if you read the article, it says it was a pre-arranged trading plan filed with the SEC

[Larryi5 @ May 30th 2007 3:33PM]

eh the teen and 20s thing is right, im 15 and wouldn't get that. its to big for bring around and to small if i were getting a laptop

[TrafficGeek @ May 30th 2007 3:34PM]

WTF?

It doesn't replace my laptop
It doesn't replace my Treo
It does the samething as my Treo on a bigger screen.

My god, this is a LifeDrive w/out the microdrive and has a Keyboard!

[Art Kavanagh @ Jun 1st 2007 9:31AM]

"It doesn't replace my laptop
It doesn't replace my Treo
It does the samething as my Treo on a bigger screen."

When you take your laptop somewhere do you take the Treo as well, or do you leave it behind? How heavy is your laptop? The idea is that the Foleo and the Treo together will replace your laptop.

[mark f @ May 30th 2007 3:35PM]

Holy crap, that's huge! I half expected it to have vacuum tubes rather than microships given its dimensions and limited functionality. I agree with the preivous comment - its their Tombstone (and speaking of fave geek food I've seen smaller personal pizzas than the Foleo). mf

[CL @ May 30th 2007 3:35PM]

I think if they priced it at $300, there may be a market for it, but $500....meh

[Brian Kirchhoff @ May 30th 2007 3:43PM]

Should have called it: "The Palm Shark Jumper"

[hans @ May 30th 2007 3:43PM]

most pointless gadget of 2007-8?

[nicholas @ May 30th 2007 3:49PM]

This thing isn’t much smaller than my PowerBook 2400…

I don’t disagree that there is a need for complementary or multiple displays, but couldn’t it be smaller? Thinner? The Psion NetBook seems to be the same product.

[Deckard @ May 30th 2007 3:54PM]

Hawkins admitted during the presentation that Flash playback was poor as the processor is underpowered - quote "It's a bit jerky, we're quite disappointed by that - we discovered this late in the process". Holy cr@p they had 5 years to come up with this garbage and they discovered it had poor performance late in the process??

Palm fanboys (I've only ever owned a TT) have now christened this the Fooleo. It's doomed, and will surely take Palm with it, which is probably a good thing if they think that bilge like the Fooleo is what the world needds. In a smaller form factor matching the Nokia N800, Palm might have been on to something but they've blow it big time with this nonsense.

RIP Palm. Never mind eh.

[Bill M @ Jun 11th 2007 3:27PM]

Wrong. The Foleo does Flash very well as they visited a Flash-based website during the demonstration. Video, a la YouTube, is what he said didn't work well.

[kballs @ May 30th 2007 4:12PM]

Neither here nor there.

I don't understand why people keep thinking there is a big market for UMPCs or ultra-huge-smartphones.

I'd much rather have a dock for my smartphone/Treo that has a keyboard, mouse, and full size monitor so I can do the "work that requires a full size keyboard, display, and mouse"... but using the UI and apps that reside on my smartphone/Treo. You wouldn't need to carry the dock around with you, just have one at work, at home, maybe a laptop-like version to take on business trips, etc. but most of the on-the-go usage would be accomplished with your smartphone's touchscreen/thumbboard, leaving the work/play needing heavy input for when you're somewhere with a dock.

Until we have devices and UI with direct neural input/output, we'll still need a keyboard/mouse/monitor for some things, but that doesn't mean you need a smartphone, UMPC, laptop, and desktop to meet all your needs. As smartphones become more powerful and feature-filled, their only limitation is input/output, so a keyboard/mouse/monitor dock could easily accomplish this.

[phil @ May 31st 2007 8:59AM]

@kballs

Sweet Jesus, yes. Is anything like that under develpment now?

[Cary G @ May 30th 2007 4:17PM]

I say it's official... Palm has completly lost it. This is without a doubt the most silly thing I have ever seen, given the current (or soon to be released) offerings from Apple, RIM, and even Motorola. What a dissappoinment to seel Palm pound yet another nail in its coffin.

[cynical_pete @ May 30th 2007 4:17PM]

Who is in charge of their R&D, first off there is absolutely no market for this; You dont revolutionize a market by subtracting what has NOW become standard in most mobile computers.
The idea behind smartphones is exactly as implies 'SMART PHONE', being able to access necessary material be it business or pleasure in a palm (PUN heavily intended)sized device.
This should have been a phone, with the capability to connect with laptops and TV's i.e Nokia N95 & HTC X7500.
There is no market at all; lack of features to consider a laptop competition, too big for a person who just wants to browse through a WAP page.

[Matt W. @ May 30th 2007 4:28PM]

Why did they simply create a tablet-style computer with a pen interface? There'd be a bigger market for such a device than the Fooleo.

[perfectionist @ May 31st 2007 6:32PM]

This should have been a ultra-basic, ultra-portable with advanced smartphone syncing.

Like:
- Flash storage (1-8GB?)
- 256MB RAM
- Smartphone as remote control.
- Bluetooth 2.0 + EDR
- 802.11b/g/n
- For basic office functions, e-mail, internet, minor music playback and photo organizing

Like a more advanced OLPC XO, since even that is more advanced than this Fooleo...

[Ghost_MH @ May 30th 2007 4:32PM]

This is...Amazing...Wow...If Palm was working on this for five years, I don't know what to say. I would have much rather have seen Palm working with some laptop manufacturers to create their own version of the SideShow...A Treo-like SideShow would have been very nice. A smartphone you can just dock into your laptop.

This...This is just pointless...Why does it take so long to make something like this???

[simon @ May 31st 2007 10:47AM]

Exactly what I was thinking, a dock to allow your phone be inserted into your notebook, a little like the new HP laptop with dockable remote control.

That would be kinda awesome as you could use the 2nd screen as a sideshow screen and charge the phone at the same time.

[Brad Konia @ May 30th 2007 4:39PM]

I agree with the consensus that this device is a disaster. However, I do think it will have an "iPhone-like" effect on the rest of the industry in the sense that it will cause other vendors to think about what people really want from a mobile computing device and hopefully develop some innovative devices that people would really use.

Palm made a huge mistake by positioning the Foleo as a "Smartphone Companion" because nobody wants a "companion" for their Smartphone. The last thing anyone wants is to have to lug around another device, particularly one that requires a Bluetooth connection to a secondary device to get on the Internet, when outside of WiFi range. Instead of positioning this as a Smartphone Companion, they should have positioned it as a notebook replacement.

I walk to Starbucks every day in the middle of the afternoon to get some coffee and a snack. I would love to be able to bring my notebook (14" HP DV2000) and work from Starbucks, but I never do. WHY??? Several reasons:

1. The damn thing is HEAVY. The notebook itself weighs five pounds. Then add the bulky transformer and the case and you're up around eight pounds. This may not sound like much, but it's definitely enough to make me think twice about lugging it over to Starbucks.

2. It's a hassle. I would have to shut down at least to standby mode, unplug it, pack it in the case along with the transformer, zip the case closed then repeat this packing/unpacking procedure two more times when I get to Starbucks and then when I get home later on. Could I leave the case and the transformer at home and run it on battery? Not really, particularly if you plan to be online. When I'm using WiFi or my Sprint Broadband card, I'm lucky if I can get 45 minutes of battery life.

3. It's fragile. I use my notebook as a desktop replacement. If I were to drop it along the way, I'd be totally screwed.

4. I'm afraid of it getting stolen while I'm standing in line ordering my Iced Venti Soy, no Classic, Cafe con Leche. Yeah, I know, I could wait until after I get my drink before sitting down and unpacking the whole thing, but what happens if I want another drink later on? Then I have to unplug the notebook and carry it with me while trying to juggle a coffee and a snack in my other hand.

I suspect that many other people have similar problems and concerns, which make it uncomfortable, inconvenient and risky to carry around a notebook. Yes, I know you can spend like three grand for a little Vaio that weighs in at 1.5 lbs but those things are even more fragile and you still have to deal with the transformer, the case, the boot-up procedure, etc... Or you could go with an OQO Model 2, but is it really practical to do any serious work on that little screen with that little keyboard? I think not.

So what kind of device would satisfy MY needs?

1. It would have to be very light. The problem with notebooks isn't so much their size, it's their weight. Let's face it...no one is going to put an OQO (with its 5" screen) in their pocket anyway. Even at that size, it would be too big and bulky. So does it really matter if you're carrying an OQO or a larger device with a full size screen and keyboard that weighs about the same? It might even be less awkward to carry the larger device, provided it was the same weight. I haven't seen any info on the Foleo's weight, but I imagine that you could make a device with no hard drive, a full-size keyboard and a 10" screen that would weigh in around 1 lb.

2. You'd have to get rid of the packing/unpacking/boot-up/shutdown hassle. That means instant on/off like the Foleo, but it also means NO TRANSFORMER and NO CASE. You want a device that you can carry as a single piece without having to lug around other stuff with it. I'm not sure how feasible it would be to create an AC powered device without a transformer, but I'll leave that to the engineers to figure out. I envision a retractable power cord that pulls out from the device and snaps back inside when you're done. The device could also have a fold-out handle that would allow you to carry it easily, without a case.

3. Since we have no hard drive and hence no moving parts, this device would automatically be more durable than any conventional notebook. However, the manufacturer could go a step further and design it to be able to withstand 3-foot drops without damage. Perhaps they could use a soft rubber material for the case or something. Maybe a spill-proof keyboard as well. Again, leave that to engineers.

4. Built in locking device that would allow you to attach it to a table or something so it couldn't be easily stolen if you step away from it for a moment. Like the power cord, this would retract into the device when you're not using it. Perhaps they could also include one of the GPS-based tracking devices that are now available as a third-party add-on for notebooks.

In terms of the actual specs of the device, I agree with Palm that 90% of your work involves web browsing, email and document management. Do you really need more than that in a portable device? Maybe, maybe not...I guess it depends on the user. However, the only real limitation in the device I've described would be in it's memory. Since we have no hard drive, the storage would be somewhat limited. Nevertheless, given current technology, I'm sure you could make something that would run Vista or XP with enough memory left over to store a few gigs worth of files. Or you could have a Linux version. Of course it would have built-in WiFi, but like the OQO, it should also have optional built-in mobile broadband. No piggy-backing off my cell phone's Internet connection please!

The day some manufacturer comes out with a device like this for around $995, I'll be standing in line with my credit card ready.

[Aaron @ May 31st 2007 11:10AM]

@Brad

Agree with everything you said except the OQO reference. You obviously do not own one. You can easily fit the device in your suit breast pocket or, perhaps less comfortably, your pants pocket. The OQO2 XP Best runs Photoshop CS just fine with multitasking. It is not blazingly fast but it probably comparable to a Pentium M. Additionally, you can dock the device and output the video signal via HDMI (no HDCP though) to a much larger display.

[Brad Konia @ May 31st 2007 12:25PM]

Aaron,

I didn't mean to trash the OQO by any means. You're right, I don't own one, but I will probably buy one in the near future. I think it's a great concept, but it's still not the same experience as having a full size keyboard and display.

In terms of portability, for those of us who don't wear a suit, the OQO is probably not something you want to stick in your pants pocket and walk around with all day. I used to own a Treo, which I found too bulky to put in my pocket and I imagine the OQO would be even bulkier. However, I could definitely envision picking up the OQO and walking over to Starbucks with it. Therefore, my point is not that the OQO is bad, only that a one pound notebook with a full-size display might be just as portable (and perhaps more useful) for people like me, who don't wear a suit.

[Frank Johnsen @ Jun 8th 2007 6:53PM]

You could have a look at Nokia N95, if it is marketed in the US.

[Jorge Ferrao @ Jul 2nd 2007 4:57AM]

If you can live with a small screen, try Alphasmart Dana: http://www.alphasmart.com/products/dana-w_In.html

[steve @ May 30th 2007 4:40PM]

Here's an idea. Instead of adding a third device to our smartphone and laptop, add software to our laptop that connects our smartphone the way this waste of space does. Ok so it wont have the "instant" power on, but isn't that what standby is on laptops, but every other enhancement this device proclaims to have is already present in laptops! I can't wait to see people on the street tricked into buying this already obsolete crap!

[Elliott @ May 30th 2007 4:40PM]

gahhhhhhhhh......because I own a non-intel mac, palm is the only real way to go and I really do like my treo 650, but in the two years since I have had it they have come up with nothing new, for goodness sake the screen and processor are exactly the same, I want brighter/larger screens, more processor power, more memory (whats with the 60MB bullsh*t), wifi, ect. Whats the big deal? Everybody's doing it ;)

[Greg Swallow @ Jun 2nd 2007 5:16PM]

I know what you mean here. Looked at TapSmart KeyLink to get full-sized keyboard and monitor for my Treo 680. Oh, but only for Windows, but not Windows using iEmulator on my PowerMac running Tiger. So I need a whole other computer to have keyboard and monitor on my Palm. Am about to go back to my RadioShack Model 100. Whichc does have a plug in monitor and drive box.

[Kory @ May 30th 2007 4:53PM]

Are you kidding me? Why did the put the name "palm" on this thing? It should say "lap"!

[Admiral @ May 30th 2007 5:00PM]

Palm has taken yet another wrong turn...seems like palm is dead in the water now...

[gadjitfreek @ May 30th 2007 5:01PM]

OK. I have been a huge fan of Palm since their pre-Pilot days. They have come up with innovative and revolutionary products.

This is NOT one of them.

Someone did this a couple of years ago in a smaller form factor...a small clamshell device just for connecting your PDA to the internet and doing basic tasks. This is a step backwards, if anything!

Very disappointing. This makes me triply glad I bought an OQO 02. And yes, Brad Konia, it is possible to do serious work on the OQO. Dragon NS 9 works like a charm on this little beaut.

[boe @ May 30th 2007 5:01PM]

This was a creative idea, however the technology is antiquated. I can get a full featured Core 2 laptop at 2.5lbs - why would I get something that only does a fraction of what a laptop can do at the same weight. If they can get it down to about 1 lb, they'd probably have a major winner - at this weight though it is only going to be popular with people who are ignorant of newer laptop technology and only buy dell laptops.

[brokemypalm @ May 30th 2007 5:05PM]

I have a better idea. No, make that *2* better ideas.

1. Have something like the Foleo , but 1/3 of the size so it really is pocketable. Foldable 2 piece keyboard? Too passe, try foldable 2 piece SCREEN. That would be innovatively droolworthy.

2. Just make another Treo but have a screen the size of a lifedrive, with a spring loaded screen that pops up revealing the keyboard. Still 1 handed operation, still great keyboard, but now full vga resolution!. And you could STILL add a branded bluetooth travel keyboard with trackstick as a peripheral. Still 2 items but infinitely smaller.....

I'm available as a freelance designer if Palm is interested....

[Gene Cowan @ May 30th 2007 5:05PM]

My first thought when I saw this was that it was a joke.
My second thought was that, at $600 before a rebate (which many people won't get), those people scoffing at the price of an iPhone are going to have a conniption. I mean, the iPhone is an all-in-one product. The Foleo still needs a phone for its connectivity!

[james @ May 30th 2007 5:09PM]

Does it float? At least some of the shits I make float.

[Bruno @ May 30th 2007 5:13PM]

a slightly freshed-up Psion MC400 from 1990 ...

See it yourself
http://www.frogplate.net/html/10002.html
http://www.guidebookgallery.org/ads/magazines/symbian/mc400brochure

and compare the design, even the lid is a copy

[Vox Locus @ May 30th 2007 5:13PM]

This is nothing new, except for Bluetooth-

Radio Shack TRS80 Model 100. http://oldcomputers.net/trs100.html

AlphaSmart Dana: http://www.alphasmart.com/products/

[compuguy1088 @ May 30th 2007 5:09PM]

From what these photos show, this is going to be better than a Alphasmart Dana. I've used one for years, and it is a great portable typing solution, but beyond that, it has severe limitations, including screen size. This thing is the perfect balance between the alphasmart and the notbook, and it has a color screen!

[cb_guy @ May 30th 2007 5:23PM]

Why is everyone slating this machine?
Why do we have to have a choice of Windows laptops only?

It's linux, it's instant on, has much better synchronisation with my smartphone/pda.I for one am sold on it.

Even if it wasn't successful. I'd be looking to port linux apps on to it, and i'm a software developer. I'm sure we'll see a version of openoffice maybe.

First thing that springs to mind will be that most of my palm apps might run on it, emulated or otherwise.

The second thing is that it could be a great remote access terminal while on-call.

I think the possiblities are limitless. It is probably going to be a great push for the linux alternative to ms windows.

Palm might be showing us how a laptop can be, even if a bit underpowered.

I think competion for MS bloat has got to be good.

Also, at the end of the day, most people only care about having office and internet access while on the move. Along with a bit of music and multi-media. They aren't really interested in other apps.

[IT Jack @ Jun 4th 2007 7:37AM]

cb_Guy, I like your take on the Foleo.
I travel alot and I'm so sick of wasting time whenever I want to work with my laptop and lugging the thing around. Sure there are plenty of small and light laptops but unfortunately my company provides me with a very heavy Dell. As with many people, I have no choice in what laptop I have to use. This appears to be a viable and convenient solution as I can leave my mlaptop behind for te time I am away.
I will still keep my laptop but when travelling, the Foleo looks like it may make life easier. I like the instant on as I could probably have half my work done in the same time it takes to start up Windows.
I think the success of this will depend on what the developers come up with. Creative applications could really make this product.
IT Jack

[Chris Moroz @ May 30th 2007 5:46PM]

Wow. Looks like Palm is going the route of the UMPC and trying to create a device for a market that doesn't exist. Good idea, I'm sure what will work out well for you.