Hacked Xbox 360 firmware prevents banning
By Thomas Ricker 
posted May 31st 2007 9:03AM
posted May 31st 2007 9:03AM
In today's episode of tit-for-tat, hackers have blocked Microsoft's attempt to ban their modified consoles. Just two weeks ago remember, Microsoft began checking and then banning Xbox 360 consoles from Xbox Live if the Big M found the gear to be modified in violation of the Terms of Use. However, new firmware -- a tat if you will -- was just released by the lively (to say the least) modding community making hacked Xbox 360s invisible to Microsoft's snooping; if they can't see it, they can't ban it. Now come on Microsoft, show us your tit. Erm.
BOOTY, BOOTY, BOOTY! (The Fox version!)
[$50 to whoever gets the reference.]
could you be more immature?
It's a beautiful thing.
Did you just ask to see M$'s tit?
I hope Microsoft will come up with a solution to this. I support the bans.
BOOOOO
"I hope Microsoft will come up with a solution to this. I support the bans."
Yeah me too, I hate it when companies tell me what I can and cannot do to the things I purchase. WTF!?!
For those whining about how wrong this is, thanks for not understanding. Y'know those license agreements? Those are legally binding. If you are found breaking them, and the agreement says they can ban you from something if you break it, then guess what? They can ban you! Legitimately! But I have no sympathy for you.
Think of it like the VAC protection on some Valve games. It's there to make sure that everything looks right. It can't figure out if your modded firmware allows you to cheat or not.
You can do whatever you like to your 360 just expect to get banned.
No, you're absolutely right. You can do whatever you want to your own 360. Nobody can tell you differently.
However, you're missing the GIANT issue here.. people are whining because they're being banned from Xbox LIVE - a managed, private network that Microsoft has every right to dictate how people connect.
Microsoft isn't sending SWAT teams to your house to recover your tainted box, they're simply denying you access to their network. Fair is fair - you wanna hang out in someone else's house, you play by their rules.
Tat is the first instance. Tit is the retaliation.
Thus, hackers' tit--in response to--Microsoft's tat.
True but if MS responds to this, then the roles are reversed and then this becomes the tat and MS' next move the tit.
actually, engadget got this one right. //austin's definition is correct, but the application is off. The tat refer's to the first move, technically made by the first modders. The mods therefore are the tat part. Unless Microsoft responds to the hack AND THEN does something ELSE to get a response from the modders it will remain that the tats are the mods and the tits are Microsoft's responses (and lets be honest, when's the last time Microsoft was truely preemptive on something, security flaws generally are "pointed out to them" in one way or another). So, though I don't know if engadget understood the whole reasoning behind it, they got this one right.
Legally binding? I don't seem to remember signing anything.
i already flashed mine and im not banned! fuck everyone who supports bans!!
You agreed to it when you signed up for the service. RIF.
Wow, don't people have enough things to hack that doesn't affect other people? Sure you might want a bigger harddrive or quieter DVD drive, but this just goes to support all the a44holes out there that glitch/cheat in multiplayer games.
That is why Microsoft doesn't want people to mod/hack. It's because you affect other people when you do it.
This doesn't allow any cheating or glitching. It only lets people play backups not run unsigned code.
Buck Rogers?
the xbox wont boot unsigned code, so you can not cheat with. the firmware just allows the xbox to boot specially crafted backup games. no hacking.
Crucial,
That maybe so, but as was already said, there's no surefire way to tell what a user is doing with whatever hack(s) they've implemented in their system. All Microsoft can do is point out that you've hacked the system, and ban you for it (as allowed for in the EULA). I'm all for bigger HDDs and backup copies, too, but if there's no way to tell the difference between that hack and hacks that allow players to cheat in games, or otherwise disrupt other gamers' experience online, then all they can do is ban EVERYONE who hacks (again, as per the EULA) instead of letting the real scum get away with their crap just so that the more harmless hackers don't get the ban-hammer.
Screwthisplace,
You don't have to sign anything to agree to it. You agreed to it when you purchased the item. If you don't want to agree to the MS's terms, then don't get MS's product. Pretty simple, eh?
Furthermore, while it's fun to hear about hacking systems, it all falls apart when hackers run unauthorized codes in Live games; that's when all the cussing 13 year olds are cheating and the games become pointless and frustrating.
If you want to hack the system, great, I love back-up copies myself. Just don't pretend to be dumb enough to think it's your right, and whatever you do, keep the hacking offline only.
Ban the Live cheaters before they become a bigger problem.
That's retarded. How the hell do you know what you are agreeing to if you can't read it. Yep I also agree to strip naked, stand on my head, on the first full moon of every month. But I didn't know that because the fucking agreement was in the box which was locked up in a case at Target.
I swear to god you people are fucking lemmings. Is it any wonder why this country is circling the drain.
Frankly I don't give a shit what the EULA tells me to do. I plunked down the money. I'll do whatever I damn well please with the hardware I purchased and if that means I want to turn it into a fish tank, or mod the thing I will do just that. If I was inclined to do that which I'm not since I don't even own a 360.
EULA are pretty much the spawn of Satan. The only reason to have one is to protect profits. I'm still waiting for the day I have to crack the seal on a shrink wrapped EULA on a book, promising not to lend the book out to anyone or I'll be charged with a felony by the FBI.
They can't place limitations one what you're allowed to do with the hardware But they can restrict access to their networks and servies based on the TOS.
Also the mods people are running allow the play of back up copies, not the running of unsigned code.
I don't know exactly how Live works, but wouldn't it be possible to give users the option to block hacked consoles from their games in some manner? That way if you want to have a nice fair game, its possible. If you want to have a glitchfest, that's possible too... AND no one gets banned!
I hate cheaters, but modding does not necessarilly mean cheating. I think that once I buy a product I should be allow to do whatever I want to it as long as I don't try to profit from any of the changes.
Oh, and btw, you don't have to sign something for it to be legally binding... They say.. "By clicking agree/using this product/etc.. you agree to the following terms" Or some such.. This is just as legally binding as throwing your john hancock down on a piece of paper, as far as i know.
Heck, even some loans for colleges can be 'signed' online without providing your signature... and I guarantee those are legally binding... a company isnt gonna loan you thousands of dollars with no way to guarantee they will get it back.
To all those of you who say this allows cheating, do your homework. The DVD firmware hacks ONLY allow you to run backups, and the backups have to be perfect. You cannot run unsigned code or modify the game files in anyway or the game will not play.
All the DVD firmware does is make the Xbox think that there is Xbox 360 media in the drive, when it really is DVD-R media or otherwise. The security sectors, PFI, video sectors, etc on the disk all must match exactly to what was on the initial disk (this is how Microsoft started finding modified firmware, by checking these portions of the disk, the new firmware release wont even allow backups to boot if these sectors aren't exact 1-to-1 duplicates of the original which is why Microsoft can no longer check *they hope*), therefore there is no way to cheat with a modified firmware.
I agree that if you mod the box, Xbox Live ToS says if they catch you you're out, and thats fair because its their service, but at least educate yourself on what the firmware does before griping about how it allows you to "cheat" on live.
LOL! "Microshat," "Asspple," "Engreatget." :D
What we have here is a classic case of modders vs. cheaters.
Microsoft should be able to come out with a way to scan for unusual signs of hard drive expansion and realize that, duh, it's not cheating, and that when they detect firmware that helps cheating, they should ban.
And i'm sure i'm going to run into a lot of backlash for all of this, so let me summarize my comment for those that want to burn me right now.
Modders = good
Cheaters = bad
Are you dense? In your own words and I quote "there's no way to tell the difference between that hack and hacks that allow players to cheat in games, or otherwise disrupt other gamers' experience online"
Um, yeah there is. The games have to be a 1:1 backup. There can't be anything out of place or the game doesn't run. That being said, if you're running a modded console playing an exact backup of the game you're golden.
If you're running a modded console playing a copy of a game and the copy has extra (or incorrect) code in it then the game doesn't play there by stopping cheaters.
That's the long and short of it.
I'm not dense at all. In fact, let me point out to you that leading into the quote that you gleaned from my post, I wrote "but if." I don't claim to know how Microsoft checks for modding, nor do I claim to know how in-depth their checks go. I simply said that, IF they can only detect that a console is modded (in the most generic sense) and thus can't determine what specific mod/mods has/have been implemented, then the only recourse they have is to ban any and all detected mods, no matter how harmless.
And as I indicated before, I'm all for the harmless mods that simply improve your system. From the simple stuff like added padding to silence the DVD drive (or replacing it with a quieter drive) to things like increasing the HDD space or enabling the use of backup disks, all that is a-ok in my personal book. My book isn't Microsoft's book, though, and they made it clear that if they detect a mod, you can be banned from Live. That doesn't leave much room for argument.
I think your missing something. Sure you can buy the console and do whatever the heck you want with it. Mod it up!!! BUT, when you connect it to servers that microsoft owns, theres where the problem lies. You dont get banned from your Xbox. You get banned from the Live service.... Whats the problem? Microsoft isnt telling you its wrong to mod the hardware you own.... their telling you that they dont allow modded hardware on their servers/network.
Sure there are modders out there that like to get more storage, or use better DVD drives, but the fact is, there are FAR more people that use modding to cheat.
I totally support the bans.
So, MS isnt stopping you at all from modding the console you own. They arent even telling you NOT to do. They are however protecting the millions of folks that like to log onto Live and enjoy a fair game with other players.
Ever been playing a Ranked game in Halo 2 when some jerkoff starts using his cheats??? I dont pay 49.99 a year to deal with that.
BAN THOSE JERKS!
Funny. Robin Williams once did a sketch about Microsoft and Bill Gates, I believe he said something along the lines of (as Bill Gates)...
"At the moment, we have Information Technology. Soon, we'll have Total Information Technology... or T1T! Any while you're sucking at the T1T - we've got you by the motherboard!"
Nice.
lolwut?
Right, not RIGHT NOW you can't run anything but a 1:1, but what happens if next week someone has a firmware that does let you do that? Then what? They are trying to be pro-active in this to keep it under wraps before theres a hack out that is so widespread and they end up having to ban people AFTER legitimately playing people are already discouraged and quit.
You're connecting to a server that YOU DO NOT OWN. Therefore, they can do whatever they want in not letting you on. Its kinda like leaving your door unlocked because your friends come over and you just have them come in. Well its all well and good till someone starts coming over when you're not home and eating your food and messing up your house so that your other friends end up not wanting to come over because your house is filthy and smelly. MS is locking the door before that happens and only letting in people that are playing by the rules.
In short, they are nipping it in the bud before it can have a chance to ruin other people's experience.
This pisses me off. I got my first Xbox banned because I modded it. Not all of us care to use cheats... Cheats piss me off, especially when people use them on Live.
I have a 360 now, but I'm not taking a chance modding it.
Support? Don't support? Who cares? This is a futile attempt by MS, just like the 50 ROM Revisions on the PSP. The company in question will spend tons of money and time coming up with new ways to keep people on the straight and narrow, and it'll last for about a week until some bored teenager cracks the system. And then the company will have to start all over again to gain another week, if they're lucky! Look at the PSP, Microsoft! You're waging a losing battle! Put the money you're wasting into better content or drop the price of some of your games and up the quality. Make the games worth it to the consumer and most won't go through the hassle of pirating. You also have to accept the fact that some will. Doesn't mean you've necessarily lost a sale becuase some will always copy what they wouldn't buy.
If MicroSoft allowed backups to be burned, what's to stop those two kids down the street who love to play games together from copying their games and giving it to each other? Suddenly, Microsoft lost hundreds of Dollars. They're not only cheating Microsoft, but the developers and every person involved in making and marketing that game.
I'm sure Microsoft doesn't mind you having a Backup copy of a game, but they have no way to say "Yeah, he's keeping that as a backup." as opposed to "That game was never purchased, they only copied it from their friend."
It's best that people just stay away from hacking and modding. You won't lose your Live capabilities and you won't ruin anyone's Live experience.
You're retarded.
You bought the product, yes, but that doesn't mean you get to use the product in a situation in which there are other people (online gaming) that you can take advantage of.
Also, you know what you are agreeing to because it says so when you first plug in your Xbox 360, when you sign up for live, or whenever you get a new feature to sign up for.
Modding your Xbox is illegal ONLINE. If you want to mod your Xbox, fine, just don't be crying about it when you get banned from LIVE. Remember, the Xbox is yours, but Xbox LIVE isn't.
Wow. don't you know that when sign up for Xbox Live it gives you the Terms and Conditions and asks you to accept them. And you did, or you wouldn't have Xbox Live. As soon as you accepted that you agreed that you wouldn't hack/mod. As soon as you hack or mod, all you can do is wait for the banhammer to fall.
>> OMGWTFBBQ!? That's dumb. They can't blah blah blah...
Read Pro CD v. Zeidenberg.
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=7th&navby=docket&no=961139
Shrinkwrap licenses are enforceable contracts, and you agreed to it. 0wned.
-p-
The reason why America is so great is because we recognize something called a PATENT. You don't like what Microsoft does? Spend $400 and make your own games and console.
here's the most important question ... where can i buy one of these?
First of all, There is both a EULA for the Xbox 360 and then there is another Agreement when you sign up for Live. If you don't agree to EULA on a peice of software or hardware you are told to return it to the store (obviously within a few days of purchase) for a full refund.
Second, alot of us remember the Original Xbox and the Cheating on Live that came as a result of Modding. Yes I did have my Xbox modded for the XBMC and other kewl features. I did not expect (or try) to use it on Live. You can do whatever you want to your Xbox or 360 but do not expect Microsoft to allow you on live. You do not have a God given right to live.
Third. If the 'Backup' you are claiming is indeed a backup then Microsoft will see your Crackdown on maybe 1 or 2 consoles at the sametime for that serial code. However, I think if they see 10,000 360s playing the same serial that they are smart enough to realize its piracy. Its ILLEGAL. If you wish to change that, please talk to Congress not Microsoft.
change what? legalize piracy? of course not. That is not my intention. I can't speak to the intention of other people using modded firmware though.
i hope everyone who mods their console gets caught and thrown off of Live service, and i hope in the future they find a way to stop modding and burning of games altogether. it hurts the industry and dilutes gaming in general. good job microsoft for leading the pack. hopefully others will follow.
Jon Doe and the others raging on about the FBI and how EULA are satanic. You purchased your xbox 360 (Or didn't and I'm wondering what your doing here) and yes, you CAN mod it to your liking. It's your hardware at that point. You can do whatever you want to YOUR box. Just like MS can do WHATEVER they want to maintain MY experience over THEIR servers. Because Just like you, I'm a paying customer. And I WANT a FAIR experience over UNMODIFIED games. Do what you want with YOUR box, but don't ruin MY experience. Or do you still not get it at this point? And am I still a lemming?
Wow, this thread must have cost the MS PR dept a fortune, all this astro-turf. On the outside chance that these are really xbox fanboys and not on the MS payroll - children, the click wrap license has as much binding legal authority as an oral promise - very very little, and IAAL. At best, it protects them from suits from people who paid for a product that included access to the Live service who are subsequently cut off. You are legally obligated to nothing with "click to continue" licenses and that is not going to change without an act of congress, and in particular one that supersedes state laws in most states. Than again, MS is not contractually obligated to provide you with xbox live, and could discontinue service tomorrow without being obligated to xbox purchasers in any way, so the current situation of tit for tat will continue.
The one "gotcha" that microsoft could be caught in is anti-competition. For example, if a DIY hard drive upgrade results in banning, there is a very strong argument that this represents an anti-competitive act. In principle, it's the same as your car's manufacturer voiding your warranty because you had someone else perform an oil change.
Personally, I think a lot of the DRM stuff is slowing progress. Companies are so concerned about people stealing that they keep getting in the way of those who are trying to move forward. I would be a very happy camper if I could rip all my games to a central server and play them from there, or download them. If I could do that, I would consider buying a second 360 so I could play in another room. Instead, I am tied to an optical disc.
Microsoft doesn't stop you from modding your 360. The software will simply not work, and they are under no obligations to support it. (The EULA for the Xbox is for the software. There are no EULAs for hardware.)
And yes, when it comes to software, auto manufacturers use encryption that can only be bought from them...hence the $150 alternator, and the $600 computer.
it's true that they can't be responsible for a mod which causes software to stop working. However, if their software specifically checks that the hardware is Microsoft-branded, that borders on anti-competitive practices.
As far as your car goes, you can absolutely get third party parts. Tuners routinely install replacement software to get more control over the engine. Of course, if you blow up your engine, you're going to have a hard time convincing them it's warranty work.
Not everything on a game disc is signed or encrypted. And you don't have to modify code to modify a game.
Textures, for example, could be made transparent on your copy of a disc so that you can see the player lurking behind a wall.
Hacks like this that allow burned discs to play also allow modifications like this to be made to those discs.
Hehe, I've actually bought stuff from one of the companies cited in that suit. :)
I'd be wary of the enforceability of shrinkwrap licenses. Legally, you are "doing" something, which is a requirement for accepting a contract, but you are not doing something very traceable. With a written contract, you sign and date and witnesses sign and date. With a shrinkwrap license, you can claim any number of reasons you were not able to enter into a contract (you were drunk, your kid opened it, etc.).
Contract law is a very strange beast. As straightforward as it may seem ("you agreed to the terms"), a contract has to be fair and legal. For example, say I buy a game and its EULA says I cannot make any copies, then proceed to make a copy for my own personal use. What I would have done is against the terms I have agreed to; however, that part of the contract contradicts copyright law. You cannot give up a legal right in a contract, which invalidates that clause.
Most contracts contain a common clause at the bottom which states that if any clause is unenforceable or invalid, only that clause is invalid. This is actually CYA for contracts. If they did not contain this clause, the entire contract would be null and void.
Employment contracts are the biggest offenders. They put all sorts of stuff in there, usually knowing it's unenforceable. And despite the fact that all at-will contracts state that either party may terminate the contract at any time for any reason, wrongful termination suits abound.
Just graduated law school; in bar/bri; well aware of enforceability of employment contracts vs. restraints on trade. :-)
But clicking through is pretty widely accepted as acceptance. Similarly, failure to return a computer (i.e., not acting affirmatively) is construed as accepting a contract with an arbitration clause ala Hill v. Gateway.
My response was mainly to the OP saying he couldn't accept a contract if it was on the inside of the box.
-p-
The modders claimed prior to the ban that the firmwares were not detectable. And they were wrong. What makes you believe them now? That's like saying a locks is unbreakable because nobody's tried. Can you tell when or if Microsoft is looking at your firmware? You can't. Then one day, thousands of flashed X-Boxes are banned. Also, this doesn't help people who have already been banned. And it doesn't help people with fresh 360's either because, well, look at history.
RANT ALERT!!!!!!! ATTENTION ALL BANNING SUPPORTERS - ALL MODDERS LOOK AWAY!!!!
How is modding a car ie. putting performance tires, changing the exhaust, changing out the air filter, mufflers, clutch assembly, gear shift, adding a blower EVEN, yes I said EVEN changing out the main chip any different from changing out the dvd player in an xbox360? How is it different from changing the "chip" meaning the software it runs from or whatever it is that gets the mods to work? How is it different than changing the hard drive to get more size or better performance out of it?
You purchased the car yes? Actually most likely, you're still making payments so it REALLY isn't yours yet. For this example, you bought it, it's yours!
So the car is yours, you add high performance tires. Your xbox, you change out your hd or make your dvd player better.
WHATS THE DIFFERENCE????????????????????
The car has software, hardware, peoples time and energy into making it. It has peoples intelligence built right in. Don't give me that crap about "People are changing the software that runs on it blah blah blah". SO WHAT!!!!!!!
They change cars all the time and have been doing since the beginning of the car. WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?????????????????
Make your stuff better. Make it stronger, faster smarter prettier. That is what INNOVATION is about. Hey, all you followers out there....FUCK OFF AND GET OUTTA MY WAY!!!!!!!!!!!
ITS MY SHIT, I BOUGHT IT, FUCK OFF!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't buy a license to use the xbox, I'm not renting it, I bought an xbox! When I buy a box of jello, I do with it what I want. Some days, I make it, put fruit in it watch it get hard, play with it for a sec then eat it! Other days I make some, let my gf play with it, then IT gets hard, then I let HER play with it!
Come on people, look forward in life. To all you people out there who "support banning", get a life. I have one! My goal is to make my life happier and better in any way possible. Modding my xbox, xbox360, ps3 and wii is one way of doing that. There is no way that I am gonna sit back and take it "from the man" forever. If you NON modders are such losers that you can't see the benefit of ADVANCEMENT, then screw you! You deserve to be beaten in xbox live from all of our cheating mods! Dumbasses!
We don't mod to cheat, we mod to have better machines because the big companies dont give us what WE want. They give us what THEY want.
How freaking hard is it to put a 120 gb drive in a xbox from the get go? Charge me an extra $100, we would have bought it! Same goes for the PS3. No, they want to put it out later and screw people that spent money on there machines when they first came out. I know tech changes and things get better with time but that's not the point. The point is that they don't give us what they want. They give us what THEY want us to have. The proof is that they try to ban machines that have been changed. Why don't they want us to have large hard drives? Because they want us to buy there crappy 20GB external drive. Give me a break. Give me a 120 gb or large then maybe I'll think about buying your product instead of doing what I do best and that's improving on someone elses ideas.
GIVE ME WHAT I WANT and then I'll think about investing in your product more!
Ummm, read my reply about the car thing. You can do whatever you want to your car, but within limits. You can't drive legally with a NOS pack (atleast not here). There's illegal widths on tires. There are limits on how loud it can go. And in the end no matter what you do, there are laws as to WHERE you can use these Supped up beasts. So yeah, that disvalidates your entire argument. When you can tell me you can customize your car HOWEVER you want without limits and still use public streets, then great. But remember wheels, exhausts, NOS, height, hydro's, are all bound by restrictive laws (change state to state and province to province, sure, but they still exist). Think before you speak. Funny thing is, I support both sides, that's what creates a scene.
So if you think you can mod anything you own and use it wherever you want, go buy some pants, cut a big whole in the crotch and walk into the mall. When they go to kick you out, tell them that you own them and can do what you want. LMAO
Sorry....in that last line....they don't give us what WE want.....but you got the point!
:)
stop yelling!
I'm not missing any points and I'm not changing their patented objects either. I'm not CHANGING their motherboard, their cpus or their software. I'm making changes to existing technology that I purchased to use in my home. For instance, I may change the way the system boots, or even add software to it to make it boot differently, but I'm not rewriting their software. I am however changing out their hard drive, which, by the way, is not only mine because I bought it but it wasn't their patented technology to begin with. It was a part that they bought from someones else to put into their "patented home entertainment unit".
Again, I am not against Microsoft banning the systems from live, I agree completely with ya Morgon and I agree with the concept of playing by their online rules. However, I am NOT against buying a product and improving on it by changing a few things here and there. My rant was specifically to those whose are against modding machines.
So, again, please someone tell me whats the difference between improving a cars performance by doing all the things we do to cars, and improving a gaming machines performance by doing the exact same types of things. Why is it completely legal to go somewhere and buy a computer chip to CHANGE the way a cars timing runs among other things in order to get higher horsepower and performance out of it? I am COMPLETELY reprogramming the cars computer as to how it runs to increase it's performance. Is this any different than going out and purchasing a chip to put in my xbox so that I can install a larger, higher performing hard drive? Absolutely not.
My stance on this is that you should be able to hack all you want, but if it reaches the point where you are affecting other paying users' experience (xbox live multiplayer) than it is horrible. Now on microsoft's side, to go as far as banning, well idk if that is right, I think instead of banning for hacked machines, they should check for clean machines, and only allow those to play on live. Its pretty easy, don't hack if you want to use live.
For those who wants to compare modding their Xboxes and modding their car, look at it this way. Yes you can mod your car all you want, but lets say you want to compete in a race, unless you follow the rules, you won't be able to race. If you want to use Live, follow the rules and you'll be okay.
How is the hell does changing my hard drive for a higher performing or a bigger one have ANYTHING to do playing against you online? How does adding a emulation software to my hard drive that I installed so that I can play snes games or whatever the heck it plays, affect online HALO 2 game play? How does flashing the firmware of a machine so that I can play burned backups of MY games allow me to cheat at Xbox Live? You're an idiot! People like "HOMER" are what cause issues like this because they can't see past the nose on their face.
I never EVER said modding an xbox to outperform you on xbox live is acceptable. As a matter of fact, to my knowledge, I don't know that there ARE any cheats for xbox live. I know there are game cheats to do this and that to your character but EVERYONE has access to those cheats so blame to coders of the software for putting those in the game to begin with.
I agree when you are competing, yes, it would be nice to play fair and be equal, BUT, and that's a big but, changing my hard drive has NOTHING to do with online play. Adding software to a great machine like the xbox and xbox360 is not changing the way we play on Xbox Live. If Microsoft is having shit fit about modders, maybe they should embrace us and help us by allowing changes and figure out a way to make money. Gee, hmmmm, let's sell an xbox that can be modded easily, we can sell extra hard drives like we do now(20gb).
Copying dvds and games is another issue all together but that isn't an xbox thing alone, it's the digital technology that's "flawed" if you will. Everyone that puts out media will have to deal with it until there is another way.
Modding a machine does NOT affect it's online game play. Those who think it does don't know what they are talking about!
Listen, Todd. You can do whatever you want with the Xbox you bought, it's yours, but Microsoft can also do whatever they want with their online network too, it's theirs. It's completely up to them to ban whoever they want from it. If they chose to ban everyone with a modded console from Live, and you have a modded console, all you can do is suck it up. You agreed on the terms of use when you got access to Live that you would abide to their rules, and you didn't, so it's only expectable that they would ban you. Regardless of your true intentions when you modded your console, it's still modded, and you can be sure that Microsoft's only interest is not just to stop cheating, but to prevent rampant piracy and protect their interests and that of the game developers.
To take your example, yes, you can completely and legally modify your car with whatever you want, but you can't complain when you're disqualified from a race that only allows stock cars to participate.
Listen Silvard.....Let me say this AGAIN.....MY DEFENSE IS FOR MODDING YOUR MACHINE IN GENERAL, NOT CHEATING WITH XBOX LIVE!!!!!!!!!!!! As a matter of fact, I said I believe I said that before. Why don't you read my comments above and then rephrase yours. I mention that changing the machine does not affect online game play. I don't believe there ARE ANY WAYS TO DO THIS! I may be wrong but how does a 500GB hard drive help me cheat on xbox live? How does a dual booted machine(one side running the standard xbox stuff and then the other running home brewed apps) help me cheat in xbox live? How does changing ti dvd drive in my xbox help me cheat on xbox live? How does making a backup of a game help me cheat on xbox live? As a matter of fact how does ANY mod help me cheat on xbox live?
If you can't answer any of those questions ACCURATELY then SHUT THE FUCK UP! I don't like cheating and YES I HAVE SAID THIS BEFORE....IT'S NOT FAIR!!!!!!!!!
But until you can prove that any of those situations help anyone cheat on xbox live, STOP trying to say that it does.
The issue here is not whether I am cheating on xbox live. It's about banning people from using xbox live because there is a change to their system that they own. You did not by a license to use an xbox, you bought it outright!!!!!!
This is not stock car racing, I am not bound by rules that all machines must be alike in every way possible. If that were true then why are there different consoles being sold with different hardware specs? To use your analogy, every machine should be identicle, correct? I believe there are 3 different consoles sold, 1 with no hd, 1 with a 20gb and 1 with a 120gb. That is not stock! The person that has an Elite has a better advantage because they can store more data than the person that has a core system.
Now if that core person went out and purchased the hd add on, is he now capable of being a cheater on xbox live? Absolutely not.
Your analogy doesn't work. Do you have another one I can shoot down?
Todd, please notice that I never once said that you were modding to cheat, however in the eyes of MS, that doesn't matter. It's their service, whether you cheat or not is irrelevant, if they choose to ban everyone who mods their console then it's their right, just like it is your right to modify your Xbox 360 as you see fit. Merely buying the 360 does not mean you have a god given right to use Live, signing up to Live under their terms, and abiding their rules does. Please notice they're not prosecuting modders or locking down their 360 or anything, they're simply not letting them on their own private network, I fail to see what's unfair about that. It's not as if you inadvertently modded your 360, and had you read Live's ToS (which you to agree to in order to be able to get the service) then you'd know what their stance on modding has always been, so it shouldn't be a surprise.
And yes, stock doesn't mean all alike, it means unmodified from factory specs, which is that the Core, Premium and Elite are. Buying an official accessory for the console, such as the HDD, is hardly modifying it.
First off, Happy 4th! :)
Second....Lets try this one more time. The WHOLE POINT OF ALL THIS IS......Why ban consoles because people have modded them?
The point ISN'T that I am breaking rules for XBL by doing so. It ISN'T that "it's not fair". It ISN'T that I don't agree with it. It ISN'T that I need to abide by their rules to join their service. It ISN'T that I'm cheating because I put a larger hard drive in my 360. These issues are ALL SECONDARY!!!!!!!!
THE MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE HERE IS......WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY WHY do these companies fear us changing their machines? WHY WHY WHY don't they allow it without "penalties"? Am I harming their servers? Am I hacking XBL to serve my purposes? Am I stealing information? Am I deleting accounts? Am I cheating? Am I stealing money somehow from them? Am I stealing ANYTHING from them? AM I breaking their service with my large hard drive? Do I have an unfair advantage with XBL somehow because I've got a 500Gig drive and everyone else has a 120?
The answer to all these questions is absolutely NO. My point and I'm sure others would agree, is what is wrong with modding a machine in the ways I listed? The 360 is a great machine but it lacks SO much because the company that designed it wants to FORCE limitations on their units. WHY? It's not like they are selling anything like I mentioned are they? OOPS I forgot, they sell a 20gb hard drive.
I want to focus on the hard drive mod for the best example of what I'm talking about. Please, for the love of GOD PLEASE tell me why Microsoft would ban a machine because I have put a bigger hard drive in my machine. Can anyone list a reason WHY that is such a big deal and WHY it's such a no no?
I am going to flash my 360 drive to read DVD-R as well as my original games.
With the 1:1 match up MS looks for on LIVE, will I be safe having my 360 flashed and only playing my original games on LIVE?
AND... would I then have to dissconnect the console from the internet in order to play my back-up copies?
Can MS search for my flashed drive while I'm not playing online?
Are they watching me through my telivision?
Also... Any idea why my XBOX stops in the middle of load screens every now and then and says "please remove and clean disc"?
I play backups and such, but to those saying you bought the system you can do whatever you want with it. That's pretty lame. You're right you can buy a car and modify it as much as you want. but you CAN'T drive it whenever, wherever, however you want without getting fined or BANNED from driving. And the licence you agreed to was the ONLINE service, which is NOT in the box, but read ON SCREEN when you sign up. I still support the "scene", but stop being so arrogant. Just cause you hack your satalite box doesn't give you the RIGHT to use their service. Idiots... If you don't play by the rules, you don't play at all. Don't like it use a tunnel service.
Best answer I can give to that question is.
Because they forwarned you.
Because they don't want to support products they don't supply.
Because they don't want to support pirating (not to say YOU are, but many peopl do.
Because you can't put any engine you want in your car and still drive it on the road (needs to be street legal).
And as for the HD upgrade, why would they support NON MS products? They probably haven't tested compatibility, and they don't pick and choose who to ban. ANY MODS get banned. Don't like it, don't play on live.
OK here we go again with another dumbass! YOUR argument IS valid to a point! Of course there are legal limits to what you can do with a VEHICLE. I'm sorry you MISINTERPRETED my comments to such an extreme. MY comments were based on small changes to a car such as maybe exaust, computer chips to change timing, mufflers, headers, etc. ALL to add horsepower and to enhance performance and ALL are legal. I'm sorry that I implied that adding a jet engine to a Mustang and driving it on a public street was entirely legal. I didn't mean to imply that adding monster tires to a Toyota Yaris and driving it on a public would be ok. YOUR argument in NO way dis validates my argument. In fact, You didn't mention one thing in your little car example that I CAN'T do legally given the right circumstances which actually HELPS me make MY point. AT LEAST THERE IS A TIME AND A PLACE WHERE THOSE CERTAIN CHANGES ARE LEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOT SO IN THIS ARGUMENT CORRECT????? So in fact again, you can't really compare your examples to this situation because they are different. You can however, compare mine because everything I mentioned is completely legal. Name one place where you cannot replace factory tires with higher performing ones! Name one place where I cannot change out an engine! Name one place where I can't change my exaust!
I can completely tear a car apart into a thousand pieces and reconstruct it in any way I choose, it's COMPLETELY LEGAL. I can change tires, engines, doors, windows, everything. Of course there are limits to where I can drive the thing but that's outside the arguments scope don't you think? I never once said I can make any changes I desire and drive it on a public road illegally. I guess I have to specifically say, because some people just can't think very well and use their brains,
ALL MODIFICATIONS TO VEHICLES MENTIONED IN THIS OR ANY OTHER COMMENT THAT I HAVE MADE IN THE PAST OR WILL EVER MAKE ARE MEANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD AS STREET LEGAL MODIFICATIONS AND ARE ALSO MODIFICATIONS THAT ARE ALLOWED ON ANY STREET WHERE IT IS LEGAL AS THEY ARE MODIFICATIONS TO VEHICLES FOR THE SOLE INTENT ON MAKING A BETTER PERFORMING VEHICLE ON A PUBLIC STREET AND ARE NOT MEANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD AS ILLEGAL/NON PUBLIC STREET DRIVEABLE MODIFICATIONS. FURTHER MORE, ONLY AS A WORD OF ADVICE, AND VERTAINLY NOT LEGAL AT THAT, DON'T ADD A JET ENGINE TO YOUR CAR BECAUSE IT MAY RENDER IT NON DRIVEABLE ON A PUBLIC STREET.
CLEAR ENOUGH JERK OFF?
Example - XBOX 360 - add chip, add software - run apps - reboot into M$ OS to run normally if needed. Mustang - Add chip, reload software to make engine run at different timings, gas/air mix, etc - reload software to run normally if needed.
What's the difference?
OK here we go again with another dumbass! YOUR argument IS valid to a point! Of course there are legal limits to what you can do with a VEHICLE. I'm sorry you MISINTERPRETED my comments to such an extreme. MY comments were based on small changes to a car such as maybe exaust, computer chips to change timing, mufflers, headers, etc. ALL to add horsepower and to enhance performance and ALL are legal. I'm sorry that I implied that adding a jet engine to a Mustang and driving it on a public street was entirely legal. I didn't mean to imply that adding monster tires to a Toyota Yaris and driving it on a public would be ok. YOUR argument in NO way dis validates my argument. In fact, You didn't mention one thing in your little car example that I CAN'T do legally given the right circumstances which actually HELPS me make MY point. AT LEAST THERE IS A TIME AND A PLACE WHERE THOSE CERTAIN CHANGES ARE LEGAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!NOT SO IN THIS ARGUMENT CORRECT????? So in fact again, you can't really compare your examples to this situation because they are different. You can however, compare mine because everything I mentioned is completely legal. Name one place where you cannot replace factory tires with higher performing ones! Name one place where I cannot change out an engine! Name one place where I can't change my exaust!
I can completely tear a car apart into a thousand pieces and reconstruct it in any way I choose, it's COMPLETELY LEGAL. I can change tires, engines, doors, windows, everything. Of course there are limits to where I can drive the thing but that's outside the arguments scope don't you think? I never once said I can make any changes I desire and drive it on a public road illegally. I guess I have to specifically say, because some people just can't think very well and use their brains,
ALL MODIFICATIONS TO VEHICLES MENTIONED IN THIS OR ANY OTHER COMMENT THAT I HAVE MADE IN THE PAST OR WILL EVER MAKE ARE MEANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD AS STREET LEGAL MODIFICATIONS AND ARE ALSO MODIFICATIONS THAT ARE ALLOWED ON ANY STREET WHERE IT IS LEGAL AS THEY ARE MODIFICATIONS TO VEHICLES FOR THE SOLE INTENT ON MAKING A BETTER PERFORMING VEHICLE ON A PUBLIC STREET AND ARE NOT MEANT TO BE UNDERSTOOD AS ILLEGAL/NON PUBLIC STREET DRIVEABLE MODIFICATIONS. FURTHER MORE, ONLY AS A WORD OF ADVICE, AND VERTAINLY NOT LEGAL AT THAT, DON'T ADD A JET ENGINE TO YOUR CAR BECAUSE IT MAY RENDER IT NON DRIVEABLE ON A PUBLIC STREET.
CLEAR ENOUGH JERK OFF?
Example - XBOX 360 - add chip, add software - run apps - reboot into M$ OS to run normally if needed. Mustang - Add chip, reload software to make engine run at different timings, gas/air mix, etc - reload software to run normally if needed.
What's the difference?
Todd, you have some of the worst arguments I've ever seen. Microsoft has every right to ban your console from their networks. You do not own it. It isn't like they're turning your 360 into a brick. Regardless of what the modding accomplished, you violate the EULA when you registered for XBox Live. Complain to MS if you don't like it. It's extremely immature to call people "Jerkoffs" when they're absolutely correct. Your car example is easily refuted. Some mods are illegal to your car, the government owns the roads and can decided who and what drives on them. It works the same way with MS - they establish a "No Mods to play on XBox Live rule" and you're forced to abide by them. It's a liability to MS and cuts into their profits so they decided we can legally enforce it by revoking your privileges. Again, They aren't violating your ownership - they aren't bricking your XBox. They are legally doing what they can to discourage people from going against their original specifications. The difference between this and your car example? There is none - just the rules are tougher (you may think draconian). Legally, you can do whatever you want to your XBox, but to drive on their roads - they can make those rules.
i agree if ms wants modders to stop modding than lower prices of HD,games,and etc.
YOU CAN MOD WITH HACKED FIRMWARE
its quite simple such as any halo games or many multiplayer games.
Copy disk data, mod the maps you wish. Use ******** (any signer will work) to
resign the maps
then make a complete duplicate but with the new maps (signed) replacing the old maps
wuala u got mods its not that hard u noobs. You can find micro$oft signers for almost any type of file they make online. Im a noob compared to everyone i knoe so u guys are like super noobs.