HD DVD players outselling Blu-ray alternatives... at the moment

You should know by now that these brief claims of superiority won't mean much when the other camp flips the numbers around and cranks out a jaw dropping figure of its own, but the North American HD DVD Promotional Group has recently announced that it's currently livin' the high life. Supposedly, standalone HD DVD players now hold 60-percent of the market share amongst standalone high-definition disc players, and the recent "aggressive spring retail and marketing campaigns" are to thank. Unsurprisingly, Toshiba's heavily (albeit momentarily) discounted HD-A2 was dubbed the "best-selling next-gen DVD player model to date," and we were even told that over 75,000 HD DVD titles were sold in the final week of May alone. The countdown for the Blu-ray rebuttal starts... now.

[Jiffylush @ Jun 11th 2007 4:56PM]

Hmm, HD DVD has 60% of the players but Blu-ray has 60% of the movie sales?

Its almost like the HD DVD group is forgetting to mention something...

I wonder what it could be?

[sr @ Jun 11th 2007 8:28PM]

They are. They aren't including PS3 sales since they know they are clearly behind if they included those.

[Dez @ Jun 17th 2007 4:17AM]

I dont know why you are ripping either format apart. The difference between the 2 formats to the end user should not be enough for us to really care. At the end of the day, the price is what matters to majority of the end users which is probably why they have taken this marketing approach. I have seen movies in both formats, and they look and sound the bloody same.

[liqwid @ Jun 11th 2007 4:56PM]

Being that this is the last week of the promotion, you are allowed to use the $100 discount on any Toshiba HD DVD player until the 17th.

[Aaron @ Jun 11th 2007 4:57PM]

Let the fanboy comments commence:

Can I get a, "what about PS3 gachillion units sold?"

[McGinley @ Jun 11th 2007 5:02PM]

I believe its "Gazillion".

[Adds suck @ Jun 11th 2007 5:02PM]

Down with Sony.

Engagdet, quit with the crappy corner adds. They are most annoying. To get rid of them add the following filter: "*autoblog.com*" to adblock.

[Jason @ Jun 11th 2007 5:10PM]

Well do you know why it's selling more? Because to beat Blu-Ray, HD-DVD has to go bottom barrel with it's prices. Just what I want, cheap crap...HD-DVD is so scared to lose, that they slash the prices so low, and lose so much money on each player, even though they know they wont win. Hey HD-DVD, year 2006 called and said, "Give up already".

[primetime4 @ Jun 11th 2007 5:14PM]

"They'd give them away but their wives won't let them!"

[Alex @ Jun 11th 2007 6:27PM]

Jason wins award for Most Inane Comment of the Day

[Jon Acheson @ Jun 11th 2007 5:14PM]

150 thousand standalone HD-DVD rigs, versus 5.5 million PS3s shipped worldwide.

Yeah, good luck with that.

[Mark @ Jun 11th 2007 5:17PM]

vs. 10.6 million 360's sold.

Yeah, good luck with that.

[Merkidemis @ Jun 11th 2007 5:44PM]

But how many of them have the HD-DVD add-on?

[TVGenius @ Jun 11th 2007 5:50PM]

vs. 8-10 million Wii's sold by now. (Wikipedia shows at least 7.5M, with pretty outdated numbers)


Yeah, good luck with that.

[Donjo @ Jun 19th 2007 6:26PM]

Vs. how many people who have PS3s and HDTVs

[Jon Acheson @ Jun 11th 2007 6:20PM]

As of January 2007, less than 100K XBox 360 HD-DVD add-on drives had been sold.

Though, yes, as I said, that wwas 5.5 million shipped. I don't have actual sales figures, but with an order of magnitude difference, who cares?

So, again, good luck with that, HD-DVD.

[E71 @ Jun 11th 2007 8:57PM]

Mark, that's cause X360 is the poor man's console and Wii is just plain ... uh, for bums with holes in their shoes.

[PostScript @ Jun 12th 2007 1:40AM]

Well thats funny because I am not poor, yet I have a 360 as well as a Wii (and the HD DVD add on for that matter) and I still have no desire for a ps3. If the 360 is a poor mans console then the ps3 is a dumb mans blu-ray player.

[Dustin @ Jun 12th 2007 4:40AM]

Jon's point is that the PS3 has a blu-ray drive built-in. So, by that merit alone, HD-DVD has some serious ground to make up. It has nothing to do with xboxes or wiis.

[arthur dent @ Jun 11th 2007 5:24PM]

another reason why sony should not have included the blu ray player in the ps3. now that standalone blu ray players are cheaper than the ps3, sony is pulling people away from the ps3 to buy a standalone player...

[The1 @ Jun 11th 2007 5:25PM]

You all need to stop looking at the PS3 as the Trojan Horse for Blu-Ray? I have a PS3 and I do not buy Blu-Ray movies to play on it. The PS3 is a gaming console and Sony needs to sell more just to save their azzzzz in that segment. I think selling the HD_DVD is a great move.

[Marek @ Jun 11th 2007 5:27PM]

And I suppose all 10.6 million of those 360s have HD DVD drives?

Look, Sony messed this one up a bit...but as long as PS3 games stick to Blu-Ray, there will always be plenty of Blu-Ray movies to go along with them.

[007baf @ Jun 11th 2007 5:27PM]

Basically, Sony is drowning in red ink. Losing hundreds of dollars per PS3 being sold. I had a PS2 (two of them because they're junk and had to be replaced), but my teenager convinced me to get an XBOX 360. I bought the HD-DVD player to go with it. It works very well, and works with Vista too. The movie selection is actually slightly better, except for James Bond is owned by Sony. I won't pay $34 per movie, but many are available at $19.99. My latest purchase was MI-3, I think. I probably have about 15 movies. V for Vendetta is great on HD-DVD. Lord of the Rings is coming out soon.

I sincerely believe Sony will throw in the towel. They cannot sustain the losses. Microsoft could do any number of things to bury Blu-Ray. And yes, I understand it holds more data, but it's interface isn't as good. The PS3 is getting trounced by the Wii. Imagine if they bundled the HD-DVD player with Halo3. Thanks for playing.

[Jason @ Jun 11th 2007 5:32PM]

Sony's loses? Are you mad?!?! Do you see Sony selling Blu-Ray players for $200 like Toshiba is having to? HD-DVD is losing, which is why Toshiba is having to slash prices. Geez, HD-DVD fanboys are just about as crazy as Apple fanboys.

[007baf @ Jun 11th 2007 6:08PM]

I'm not mad nor crazy. Sony is losing on every PS3 it sells, around $200 per unit. Microsoft makes about $45 to $50 on each XBOX 360.

How long do you think a company can sustain those types of losses? Sony goes through this often. It's why I'm hesitant to buy anything they make that is mechanical - they break because Sony isn't good at manufacturing items with moving parts. Their stereos and TVs are top-notch, but I have a pile of their video cameras and 2 PS2s.

This isn't Fanboy material, this is empirical data which is irrefutable. Sony is bleeding red. At some point, the corporate HQ is going to step in and clean house at Sony Computer Entertainment. Oh, they already did according to Forbes Magazine: "Burlingame, Calif. - Sony's computer entertainment unit, responsible for the company's PlayStation gaming consoles, has laid off nearly 100 of its 1,600 U.S. employees, located mostly at its U.S. headquarters in Foster City, Calif. Sony's computer entertainment unit posted a $2 billion loss on sales of $8.6 billion during the company's 2006 fiscal year."

Open up the business pages and not just the tech pages and you'll see. Remember that Microsoft (key backer to HD-DVD) is one of the wealthiest companies on the planet. Toshiba is far more than an electronics maker - they make submarine components, lots of defense equipment. Sony makes electronics - nothing in hard manufacturing. They are outmatched, outgunned, and cannot win. Their only ace in the hole is their movie library. They'll end up having to produce it on HD-DVD to make up for the massive losses the company is sustaining.

Iridium went through this. We advised them to cut prices on hardware and service and they did not. They went bankrupt.

Microsoft understands. Toshiba will win this by putting their HD-DVD drive in MILLIONS of laptops thus driving down their per unit price.

Other issues: Sony is facing incredible pressure because of its poorly manufactured batteries.

Do I need to provide you with more empirical data? Give up, go out and buy an HD-DVD. Every Blu-Ray disc you buy will be a nice coaster on the coffee table or join the piles of useless LaserDiscs out there somewhere.

[William @ Jun 11th 2007 6:41PM]

I disagree firstly because i doubt that push come to shove Microsoft will really care that much if one or the other wins. They do not really have a huge stake in either format because they do not really make HD-DVD hardware or much content. The Xbox doest not come standard with a HD-DVD. What will decide it is content and HD-DVD is outmatched by Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Twentieth Century Fox, and Buena Vista Home Entertainment (Disney) and a few other that are sitting on the fence producing for both. Hardware wise they are also well stocked with Apple, Dell, Sony (obviously), HP, and Philips backing them. Lets not forget Microsoft is powerful but its mainly a software company while Dell HP Sony are hardware companies on which Microsoft runs.

[Adam Chance @ Jun 11th 2007 5:39PM]

I cant believe people fall for this greedy cashgrab. BUY NEITHER! Let the 2 formats DIE! or a winner be quitely intergrated into DVD players.

$35 for a disc that costs the same to make as a regular DVD.

I own a PS3 and a 360 I own not a single HD or blueray disk. I do purchase 3-4 DVDS a month.

[ripper @ Jun 11th 2007 5:54PM]

umm? you buy DVDs? weird. You have heard of Netflix and big hard drives, right?

[Rick Lyon @ Jun 12th 2007 8:35AM]

I rent my HDDVDS and BRD from blockbuster online. I won't buy until a format wins.

[William @ Jun 11th 2007 5:53PM]

Maybe check out this article. Its well explained and pretty much spells out why the HD-DVD is not going to be the winner of this battle.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/soapbox/soap060107.html
I very strongly doubt that Sony will "throw in the towel" when it comes to the PS3 granted the competition is far stiffer than it was at the beginning of the last round and there may not be as clear a winner and Sony may not sell 90-100 million PS3s like it did for both of its predecessors. Either way Sony throwing in the towel in the gaming division would be a very very bad thing for consumers allowing Microsoft to rule yet another sector of the market. It always baffles me that people are so gleeful that Sony is doing badly when if you put Microsoft and Sony side by side in the long run Microsoft has been the less ethical one. Granted Sony has been losing it a bit these days specially with the Battery and DRM fiasco but my firm belief is that neither its PS3 nor Blu-Ray decisions were miss guided.

[WASD John @ Jun 11th 2007 6:01PM]

Jason, Did you ever stop to notice that HD-DVD players have ALWAYS been cheaper than Blu-ray? Didn't think so as you have a bad diagnosis of blind fanboyism. Price is king in my world as well as the vast majority of consumers. For HD-DVD with it's 1 exclusive studio support to be doing as well as it is right now in the marketplace is awesome. Also stand alone players DO have a big impact on movie sales as a consumer purchases a HD-DVD player ONLY to play HD-DVD movies. No games as an option. Therefore having 60% of the standalone next gen DVD market is pretty nice.

P.S. www.nexgenwars.com has the PS3 at only 3.2 million Sold, and not 5.5 million (Thats probably a "shipped" figure, but sold, and shipped are 2 completely different animals) Also if you want to talk about selling for a lose to gain market share look at every single console race before the Nintendo Wii. This Wii is the only console to take a different direction and not sell for a lose with it's launch. Sony is taking the biggest hit on the PS3 with a crappy attach rate to boot.

[Anthony @ Jun 11th 2007 6:08PM]

With Sony losing 2 Billion dollars on the PS3 so far. I see them doing one of two things, either dropping the blu-ray option on the PS3 to compete with the Xbox 360 at $199, or making blu-ray go the way of the betamax.

When it comes down to it, it's all about the money. Stock holders cannot be happy with the losses Sony has to deal with, and just how Share-holders kicked Eisner out of Disney, they do have the power to tell Sony to drop the Blu-ray.

Thoughts anyone?

[William @ Jun 11th 2007 6:17PM]

Hmm $199? I might be wrong as i do not live in the US but i believe that figure is $299. Thats for the basic setup. Tell me if i am wrong but i am pretty sure your figure is wrong.

[Agathos @ Jun 11th 2007 6:28PM]

Thoughts are that that's a stupid post.

Even if they wanted too, which they don't, you can't just rip out the fucking BD drive! Did you forget that the games are put on BD, so you're idea is that they pull the BD to make it cheaper but now can't play the games either...!? I've been banging my head on my desk trying to determine if you were serious with that comment.

Shareholders won't "demand" that they rip out the BD because they're not idiots like u fanboys. Shareholders understand loss for investment and real numbers not a one week spike in HD Player sales and "oh my god it's over the SKY IS FALLING!"

Sony isn't hurting, Blu-Ray isn't hurting, fucking deal with it.

I would re-read these oh so intelligent comments but I have to go and punch myself in the dick for an hour, that or enjoy time with all three next-gen consoles I own on the 60" 1080p tv that make my BD movies look incredible and damn near 3d, either option is less painful.

[Sy @ Jun 11th 2007 6:19PM]

What about Toshiba's shareholders? You don't think they are losing money with the promotion? At $199 for the HD DVD player and 10 free titles, they are practically giving the players away.

[Dale @ Jun 11th 2007 6:23PM]

@Whoever said to let the two formats die: hear bloody hear.

I resent being forced to choose between two formats that both have their merits and drawbacks, only to face the prospect of my purchase becoming obsolete. Especially when the contention is mostly over who gets the royalties - Toshiba or Sony/Philips.

No matter how you slice it, we the consumers will be the only real losers in this - whichever format is successful, someone stands to make huge wads of cash by forcing us to pay through the nose for movies we already bought on other formats.

[jns2001 @ Jun 11th 2007 6:24PM]

I don't have all the business and empirical data that you guys have. But as a consumer when I see an HD-DVD player at 230.00 (Toshiba A2) on eBay, I think it is time for me to purchase another DVD player and buy their discs as soon as they become cheaper.

[Alex @ Jun 11th 2007 6:31PM]

i can't believe a fanboy would have their head so far up Sony or Toshiba's arses that they think a format is losing as show by the cheap prices. If that were true what about all the BluRay discounts and bundles for sale on Amazon?

[eh @ Jun 11th 2007 6:32PM]

Standalone is the keyword here. They could have never made those claims if they factored in PS3's. It has nothing to do with fanboyism, its a simple fact that MANY people have bought a PS3 just for the bluray function due to its price and that many more people bought/willbuy a PS3 and use its movie function much like the millions who used the dvd function on the PS2 in the early years.

This article proves nothing, its propaganda from HDDVD pure and simple. Its easy to twist facts to make them seem in your favor, companies do it all the time with demographics and price ranges. How many movies sell per platform is the only thing that matters.

[Broo @ Jun 11th 2007 6:41PM]

The most important factor for the end consumer is always going to be the bottom line (unless you have an infinite source of disposable income). If HD DVD players sell for $350 (or $250 on sale at Amazon) and Blu-Ray sells for $500, guess which will sell more?

Currently the only difference in the two formats are the 'exclusive' titles to them; both are output 1080p and digital audio via HDMI and both have all sort of useless interactive/extras crap that no one will ever use (unless they are very bored). This will change when one becomes dominant; if 2 million HD DVD players sell, sony will start

First one that makes it to $99 for a player gets my business... :o)

[Kris Burbidge @ Jun 11th 2007 6:48PM]

I can't believe how much fanboiiii-ism there is about this subject. Honestly, I think the "format war" is the stupidest thing I've ever seen. Granted it will lower prices faster, though I still don't even care. Shit, even LCD's themselves still have issues (even sony, sharp, samsung). Go ahead early adopters, you must have a lot of money burning a hole in your pocket. I'll take an 42" 1080p LCD when they're as reliable as a CRT. Then a next-gen DVD after that. I'm not a cheapass either. Anyone who would buy something for $3000 that will either fail, or be obsolete in a year is either rich or dumb (or both).

[Chuckles McGee @ Jun 11th 2007 7:12PM]

Gotta agree with you to a big extent. I'd be happy just as long A format wins out- customers start buying the format in droves, the price plummets, and we have a nice cheap universal HD format. I'm personally rooting for Blu-ray just because I see the additional capacity as longer lasting.

[JohnDoe303 @ Jun 11th 2007 6:54PM]

This is clearly a BS attempt at them trying to recover ground from th Blu-ray camp.. They're losing and they know it. HD-DVD is on the way out and they're desperate to do anything they can, slash prices, run campaigns, and flat out lie. Neither HD movies cost 34$ and if you're paying that you're a fool.. Blu-ray discs surprisingly only cost about 19.99 to 24.99 on average and time of release. I know HD-DVD discs are a bit more on average but that's HD-DVD and just another reason it will fail. Oh and Sony did a great job by including Blu-ray in every console, not only as a future proofing step but because PS3 owners are buying movies. I own 16 Blu-ray movies and 4 PS3 games with many more coming this fall into winter.. This was the first year of the console so there weren't many games that interested me.. but, there were LOTS of great 1080p Blu-ray titles.

[Iridium @ Jun 11th 2007 7:13PM]

Toshiba is giving the player away for free. In this Sunday's circular for HHgregg you get a free HDA2 and 5 movies if you buy any HDTV $999 and up.

Sorry but that is a signal of desparation. Its over for HD-DVD, how are you going to get any manufacturer to support your format if they have to compete with FREE.

[robby1051 @ Jun 11th 2007 7:23PM]

@ 007baf
where do you get the numbers that say $45 on every xbox?
as far as I know MS has yet to make money on Xbox division and then there was the story 1up ran saying MS is poised to make money on xbox for the first time in 2008:
Microsoft: Xbox Division Will Make Money in 2008 news from 1UP.com so sony maybe losing money right now but MS has been losing money the whole time.
but the biz plan is that in the future things will look up!
(Only the wii made money out of the gate)

[Mark @ Jun 11th 2007 7:36PM]

Isn't it surprising that with all these promotions HD DVD only sells 60% of the standalone players? Not too long ago HD DVD sold 80% of the standalones and that was before they started those huge discounts.

[Kumar @ Jun 11th 2007 8:03PM]

Don't forget HD DVD / Toshiba came to market first, which is why they had the early edge. Then Sony arrived with its name brand clout and sweet exclusive studio deals. It will be interesting to see what the money grubbing studios do as the 'war' draws out.

I just bought the costco HD-D2 @250 since i had been looking for a decent upconverter and thought, what the heck, might as well go hd for 100-150 more. At least if hd-dvd loses, I've still got my hd player that will play all of my dvd and hd-dvd library.

I could care less who or what plays 1080p, since my 42 wega maxes out at 720p, like a large percentage of hdtvs in existence right now.

[HDMike @ Jun 11th 2007 8:03PM]

I would like to see the reference for "standalone HD DVD players now hold 60-percent of the market share amongst standalone high-definition disc players".

I find it hard to believe that the $600+ BD standalones hold 40% of the market. BD players are always in stock at my local stores in an affluent area of Southern CA, while HD-DVD players sold out early on and again during the $100 off promotion.

[Dmgdguds @ Jun 11th 2007 8:14PM]

Funny, the only people I see supporting the BluRay camp are PS3 owners who seem to be trying to justify their $599 purchase. Sony is clearly the monkey who has their hand in the trap with te reluctance to let go before the market catches up to them. However, their biggest problem is that they have put themselves in a situation where they can't let go. They can't abandon bluray, because there is no way around it without completely redesigning the way the console works. Think about it...how much more does Sony stand to lose if Bluray doesn't win? This is why they can and will not win either the console or hi-def player war. Later this year Microsoft will sell a flavor of their XBox 360 for $199 and I think we'll also see a HD-DVD player for the same price or less. Lets face it, $199 is pretty much a sweet spot for consumers. Sony is already bleeding tons of cash because of the PS3 and will not be able to price it low enough to stand a chance.

Dropping prices are not a sign of desperation, but rather a move to capture more market share. Sure, Bluray is on top right now and gets inflated numbers because the player is bundled with the console. Also, it should be stated that the number of units sold to date will be tiny when you compare them to the number that will be sold in the next five or six years. How many households have dvd players vs. households with consoles capable of playing dvds? Sony has put itself in a situation where it has to fight two fronts and I am willing to bet that they wish they hadn't done it this way.

What really makes me laugh is to see this elitism from the PS3 blind followers...you guys act just like Sony does and have no problem throwing your money away. This "My movies look incredible on my 126 inch LCD TV with my $50,000 sound system while I am up to my eyes in debt" attitude is NOT the general public! You people are a joke to me! So, go back to your $599 over priced toys and rub them with your credit card bills and act like you know everything, while the rest of the world passes your sorry butts by. Sony had their day with the PS2 and has completely screwed themselves with bluray and a subpar video game system...

[Incriminified @ Jun 11th 2007 10:13PM]

I think what you are saying is right on the mark of what is really happening. When you hear from Bluray supporters, the PS3 install base is usually touted as being the ace in the hole for Bluray. From my perspective, I think it is instead the anchor around Sony's neck. By thinking that they were so smart to add in Bluray support into the console, they could insinuate themselves into people's homes, and dominate from within. It's not enough that they have you pay for their video game system, but that they can also make you pay more for a video game system by adding in a format that will make them even more money if adopted, at your expense. I don't remember HD-DVD camp ever doing something like that to people. Oh wait, they dropped their prices - - oh how insidious you HD-DVD people are!!! Dropping prices and letting the people choose. Tsk tsk tsk. To top things off, there are those that after having spent the huge cost for the PS3, feel that they got added value for the Bluray that they aren't really using for movies. Given the huge failure in sales that the PS3 has experienced, it appears that not everyone was so convinced.

And herein lies the rub. By adding the Bluray, they have priced themselves out of the video game market. The mechanism that they planned on 'taking advantage of' to get Bluray into homes is fairly out of their reach. Sure, they are selling some units, but certainly not the numbers they wanted. I'm sure Ken Kutagari can attest to that. Poor guy, probably didn't have a choice when the larger Sony interest was thrust upon his little group (SCEI).

Unless there is radical change in PS3 strategy, Sony is going to have to compete on standalone units. Count the number of PS3 sales all you guys want, but those numbers are not going to really matter as time passes. HD-DVD is in stronger position than it currently seems to some.