Blu-ray disc coatings starting to rot?

A thread over at the AVS Forums has highlighted a potential problem with the coating of Blu-ray discs, described by many as "disc rot" due to the mould-like spots that have made several owner's Blu-ray discs unplayable. The five page thread has reports from dozens of forum members, many of them discovering spots which can't be rubbed off on Blu-ray versions of "The Prestige." It's impossible to judge how widespread the problem is from a single forum thread, although it's not unheard of to see a product recall after a problem is discovered by users on a forum. It's also worth noting that for every user that has reported the spots, there's one or more people with discs that have no problem. If you've encountered the same issue, your best policy is to try and get a refund / replacement disc from the place where you originally bought it from. If enough people are reporting a problem, then retailers will be a much stronger voice than a bunch of consumers sounding off in the echo chamber that is "the internet."

[Juaquin @ Jun 16th 2007 6:23PM]

Oddly enough, this has happened to my BF2142 DVD. I figured I had somehow messed it up, but considering it won't come off with any amount of washing, it's not scratches, and it doesn't interfere with playback, I'm not sure what the problem is.

[Ungus @ Jun 18th 2007 12:07AM]

It's not an echo chamber. It's a series of tubes.

[Priapus @ Jun 16th 2007 6:25PM]

Could this be a decisive moment in the format war?

[E-Rock @ Jun 16th 2007 6:33PM]

Depends on if this is a real problem or a very isolated occurance. If they have to start recalling BR-DVD disks, pulling them from shelves and offering refunds, then BR is in trouble.
Perception often trumps reality and a evening news report about defective BR disk recalls would to a lot of damage.
The real kicker would be if it affects PS3 BR disks as well. Sony can't really afford to have people add another reason to pass on the PS3.

[Johnny @ Jun 16th 2007 6:35PM]

If this turns into a big thing, goodbye PS3. We barely knew ye.

[McGinley @ Jun 16th 2007 6:58PM]

It'd be funny if this was the death of blu ray.

I favour HD-DVD for the sole reason that I think Blu-Ray sounds silly.

[Long Zheng @ Jun 17th 2007 2:58AM]

Bluray: "I thought you said no chemical warfare!"
HD: Mwhahahhahaha

[obiwan @ Jun 17th 2007 5:02AM]

Have blu-ray discs been sabotaged by the enemy? Is 'format war' a reality?

[Nick @ Jun 17th 2007 10:49AM]

wow.. what better way to choose what you want as the next gen HD optical media standard than by its name.

[Charlie Calhoun @ Jun 16th 2007 6:34PM]

Perhaps HD-DVD will make its prevail at this time.

[evo @ Jun 16th 2007 6:38PM]

From the photos, it looks to me like a delamination problem, likely caused by a simple manufacturing problem like too much humidity during the coating process. If this is true, or something similar, then it would likely only affect a few batches of discs.

[shaun @ Jun 16th 2007 6:39PM]

bluray is practically on the home straight to beating HD-DVD, then it goes and does this......fan-bloody-tastic

[marc.federico @ Jun 16th 2007 6:41PM]

Wow this is huge! I always remembered BD's had to be manufactured differently than DVD/HD DVD because of how sensitive they are in comparison. They were originally supposed to be distributed in cartridges but this strange anti-scratch coating was implemented just before its debut. Seems like it was rushed to market with little to no real world testing besides its ability to deter scratches. I would seriously avoid Blu-ray until this is sorted out...Sony once again at its finest.

[Nick @ Jun 17th 2007 10:57AM]

the anti-scratch coating wasn't created by Sony it was created by Verbatim. Sony was ready to do the cartridge thing, until Verbatim contacted them saying that they had a solution. Sony not wanting to to delay the release of Blu-Ray in the US anymore probably didn't do its own test on the surface coating created by Verbatim. If there is a fault with the coating then how about we recognize who is truly at fault for that.. either the manufacturers for not following proper instructions if its an improper implementation of the coating.. or Verbatim if it is a problem with the coating itself.

[Stefan @ Jun 16th 2007 6:42PM]

yeah i agree with evo on this. it look like just a manufacturing error. the fact that it was mainly on a bunch of blurays of 'the prestige' supports that even more

[jason @ Jun 16th 2007 6:42PM]

This always happened to me with CDs...I never figured out why, maybe leaving them in the car

[Paul @ Jun 16th 2007 6:43PM]

lol @ hd dvd fanboys. Zomg! l00k at teh d0tz!!11

[Zeus the God @ Jun 17th 2007 8:00AM]

Funny, I could say the same about you being a fanboy, because no one is in here bashing blu-ray (not really, atleast) nor is anyone really holding HD-DVD in high regards either. So I would say the only REAL fanboy here is you, seeing as how you brought the entire subject of fanboys (when there are none) up.

[dude @ Jun 16th 2007 6:47PM]

Heh. I call it the Blu-Death. :)

[Robotochan @ Jun 16th 2007 6:49PM]

Maybe the awesomeness of the Prestige is leaking out of the Blu-Ray and into the air causing some sort of LED-esque high?

[Whackmushrooms @ Jun 16th 2007 6:50PM]

this has nothing to do with blu-ray in specific ... its all about humidity .. ive seen this happen to DVDs, CDs as well. good alarmist headline though .. whats the matter slow news day?

[wade_reese @ Jun 16th 2007 8:31PM]

Seems a bit premature and a tad reactionary to me...

...to infer that this is some sort of diaster for Blu-Ray.

For those that remember, CDs had the same scare and I had a few CDs from the 80's that looked like they had "rot". I also remember, from the early days of CDs, that folks said that useful life would be 15-20 years. But now in 2007, zero of my CDs (more than 3800) have a failure to play.

Let's give Blu-Ray some time to settle in. The 15 or so discs that I have play perfectly. Only one was not compatible with my PS3. With the one that would not play was instantly exchanged by the manufacturer (it was "Chronos" and the producer was fantastic).

In a word, chill.

[Mike @ Jun 16th 2007 6:54PM]

I was an early poster in that AVS thread. The problem isn't the coating.... it's oxydation between the two (dual) layers of the BD50 disc. I haven't seen a single BD25 with this problem (yet).

[Rob @ Jun 16th 2007 9:49PM]

Ha, and I favor Blu-ray because I think it sounds cooler.

[Court K. @ Jun 16th 2007 9:54PM]

This happens to my HD-DVDs to. It only happened to two of them, both were ones I took to the beachhouse.

[McGinley @ Jun 16th 2007 7:03PM]

Wow,so many Blu-Ray production experts.

[Ryan @ Jun 16th 2007 7:36PM]

Maybe Tesla's cloning machine was used to create these Prestige discs...

[hemmy @ Jun 16th 2007 7:10PM]

This seems quite limited to a batch pressed in a certain time period. Not surprising to see defects early on in newer technologies (DVDs and Laserdiscs also had problems as well, and LDs also had oxidation issues too) It's just a kink that hopefully has ironed itself out where ever they were pressed at. I'm sure the few people with the problematic discs can get them replaced for free.

[Alexander @ Jun 18th 2007 10:09AM]

Let me build off your laserdisc-rot comment, also commonly called 'Bit-Rot' or 'LaserRot'.

A Laserdisc (LD) was essentially a double-sided optical disc with a layer of metal in-between that had the data. Sony had very lax quality-assurance back then, mainly because sales of LD were so low that they wanted to get as much money as they could from what sales did happen. (sound familiar?)

Where LD was different was there was no encoding on the disc's. They were straight analog--nothing digital about them. later, they would add digital sound but the video would always remain analog.

Analog has this really awesome ability to resist a lot of interference. Whereas a single bit can throw off an entire section of a digital video, a relatively large area of an analog recording can be 'corrupted' and not really lose that much quality.

Now inter BitRot. Since each disk was double-sided, they had to be made one at a time and glued together. Since QA was so lax, they used a bad/cheap glue in-between the layers, which eventually caused the metal to oxidize. Rust, is the common form of Iron Oxide, but the truth is that most metals including aluminum will oxidize in the presence of an oxidizer.

This oxide was the 'BitRot' and was the cause of many-a headache for the LD owner.

Fast forward 20 years, and we are having similar problems from the same company? I say, less of a coincidence and more of a trend to me.

[tekdroid @ Jun 16th 2007 8:02PM]

Prestige indeed.
Bless you, early DRM adopters.

[mike @ Jun 16th 2007 8:05PM]

if you read the last page in the thread, somebody summed up everyone who posted with a problem and which movies were effected. Seems like 4 different movies have heard complaints, with prestige being the #1.

I wouldent call that a single run production error. Perhaps the discs were just printing on infiror media? I know that when I burned 200 movies to Riteck DVDs, they all suddenly stopped working or skipped 2 years later. Terrible discs. I switched to tayio yuden and 3+ years later, not a single problem on thousands of discs.

So perhaps these movies just used cheap material bd-roms? Then again, sony did have a problem with laserdisc rot, so it wouldent be a surprise if this were true

[Orpheus @ Jun 16th 2007 9:02PM]

You're a pedantic fool. Don't believe me? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedantic. It's the second definition.

Pedantic. Fool.

[Orpheus @ Jun 16th 2007 9:05PM]

Haha I replied to the wrong person. I meant chris...Damn my plan is foiled.

[chris @ Jun 16th 2007 8:10PM]

For the record, there's no hyphen in HD DVD. And Blu-ray has a lower-case "r" for ray. These are the standards set forth by both formats. Don't believe me? Go to http://thelookandsoundofperfect.com/ and then click Frequently Asked Questions. It's the 2nd question.

HD DVD. Blu-ray.

[Chris @ Jun 16th 2007 8:13PM]

Any bad news for either camp is unwelcome when trying to determine a market leader. No matter which way your fan blows.

[BonBon @ Jun 16th 2007 8:22PM]

Quite literally.

[rpgSE.com @ Jun 16th 2007 8:26PM]

I wonder if this has to do with Best Buy giving away PS3's with the purchase of a 1090p Sony TV starting Sunday

[Taylor @ Jun 16th 2007 9:35PM]

There's 1090p HDTVs now?

[Mark @ Jun 16th 2007 10:58PM]

Only if you buy a Sony(R) PS3 (R)TM and Sony(R) Bravia (R)TM 1090p capable(R) LCD HDTV. Then they give you 10 pixels extra.

[Lazarus Dark @ Jun 17th 2007 4:29AM]

actually overtheair 1080i is actually 1088i because the codec used requires a certain multiple of lines. All dtv decoders are programmed to throw out the extra eight lines before display.

nothing to do with this article, just a fun fact for the day. :P

[Peter @ Jun 17th 2007 7:53AM]

Well, it's ten sharper, isn't it? It's not 1080. You see, most blokes, you know, will be watching at 1080. You're on 1080 here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on 1080 on your TV. Where can you go from there? Where?
Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Put it up to 1090.

[peshue @ Jun 16th 2007 8:29PM]

To all early adopters,

[peshue @ Jun 16th 2007 8:31PM]

Oops, that wasn't supposed to happen, anyways.
To all early adopters,
Tanks for being such good guinea pigs and investing lots of money into this stuff. it makes it so much easier on me when I actually buy it myself in a couple years and get the winning format and a fraction of the price tat you paid without any weird crap like this happening.

[The Early Adopters @ Jun 17th 2007 8:17AM]

Peshue... your comment was better when we only saw the first sentence. Now you just come off like a dick.


.

[John Doe @ Jun 17th 2007 1:09PM]

In the mean time you are stuck with standard def content and those with the hardware are enjoying HD. What? You think the manufacturer wouldn't replace these disks outright?

[Christian @ Jun 16th 2007 8:50PM]

Oh man, I have the prestige! I so hope this doesn't happen to me; I checked and nothing yet. All I can see that this be a blessing in disguise is for them to to swap anyone who might have this problem that shows no scratches or anything like that to costumers. Kinda like the Wii straps, no one really got mad at them completely (I think) but just request that it be replaced as soon as possible. Just hope sony or the manufacturer of those discs replace them.

[SH @ Jun 16th 2007 9:05PM]

So many Sony fanboys. WTF is wrong with people?

[Count Porkula @ Jun 16th 2007 9:22PM]

Oh crap. I just got a nice 71" Samsung 1080p set and now you're telling me that Sony just came out with a 1090p? How much better is the 1090p than 1080p? I can't afford to keep buying big screen TVs every time something better comes out! This will be the last time.

[david @ Jun 16th 2007 9:41PM]

If its only being reported on The Prestige, then I agree with some of the other posters, its a manufacturing problem at that plant.

[Joe @ Jun 16th 2007 10:05PM]

Engadget, your grammar is teh suck--Why?!! You're a professional blog, doesn't anybody proofread the articles?!